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    Top 10 Strongest Canon Force Users

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    This thread is in regards to strength in the Force. This means any manifestation or usage of the Force can be used as a gauge, including but not limited to combative application. Essentially, who the Force is strongest with. This doesn't include potential; I mean actualised usage of the Force.

    Since this can fluctuate based on emotions, mental clarity/focus etc, you can rank characters based on the highest showing of Force connection they have ever displayed, e.g Anakin demolishing Dooku, Luke demolishing Vader, and so on.

    To make it interesting, we'll say that the Ones, Yoda and Palpatine are to be excluded from the list. That said, I'm interested in how people think Luke and Snoke will relate to the latter two in the coming movies.

    I'll start with my list.

    Top 10

    1 - Luke Skywalker (TFA)

    I'm expecting him to have reached a great deal of his potential by this point, which I think is grounds enough for putting him at the top; he's the son of the most (potentially) powerful Force user to have ever existed, has spent decades in study and conflict which cultivates power, and has reached the age of 53, which is by no means a mark against him when you look at the age of other powerful Force users; Yoda at the end of his lifespan, Dooku at 80, Palpatine at 60-80, Mace and Maul at 50, etc. Also, assuming he has indeed honed his considerable power since RotJ where he became powerful enough to batter Vader into submission in short order, that sets an extremely impressive benchmark.

    2 - Mother Talzin

    Someone who is presented as a legitimate individual rival of Palpatine, who has secrets he covets, who can stand up to him on the Dathomir nexus (which, presumably, would amp both Dark Siders) after a dubiously completed ritual which may have weakened Talzin. She was also said to be at the heart of her power, but the point is, she can hold a candle to Sidious - she has to be up there.

    3/4 - Anakin Skywalker

    Alongside Luke, the most prodigious Jedi (and Sith) in Star Wars, capable of making the superior experience of his contemporaries almost redundant in combat simply by attaining enough focus for his vast power. Quick to excel in whatever field he dedicated himself to, whether it be combat, piloting, telepathic influence, telekinesis, mechanics, etc.

    3/4 - Darth Vader

    Clearly a different entity altogether from Anakin, I view Vader as coming in shortly after Anakin, with him being above Anakin being a debatable topic. Vader has more mastery and focus of his power on average, but he lacks Anakin's raw power at both of their respective peaks. I don't see Vader doing to Dooku what Anakin managed, at his best. In fact I think Vader very much takes Dooku's role when Luke steamrolls him, with the point of those two scenes being that they mirror each other, however Luke spares Vader while Anakin kills Dooku.

    5 - Mace Windu

    Largely reputed as Yoda's second-in-command on the Council, one of if not the greatest Jedi warriors to take part in the Clone Wars, and with his considerably impressive showing against Sidious in RotS (albeit with dubious circumstances), I think his spot is one of the most clearly defined of this list.

    6/7/8 - Count Dooku

    6/7/8 - Darth Maul

    6/7/8 - Obi-Wan Kenobi

    I long maintain that these three are peers with something of a rock/paper/scissors relationship in regards to their fighting style, and I find it hard to judge who is necessarily strongest in the Force. Dooku with his immense knowledge, experience and clarity of intent? Maul with his immense potential and virtual floodgate of emotional energy tempered by endless training? Obi-Wan with his unwavering devotion to the ways of the Jedi, his willingness to sacrifice anything for what he believes is right, and his ability to let the Force flow through him effortlessly and use him as a vessel? It's hard to say who the Force necessarily "likes" most circa RotS when they've all met, but I think they're damn close.

    9/10- Ahsoka Tano

    She's not at all far from the three discussed above and could very well surpass any of them. Her experiences during the Clone Wars served her well, and she's now capitalising on her considerable potential in Rebels as shown when she performs admirably against both Maul and Vader. Especially if Malachor is meant to be a nexus in the traditional sense of weakening Jedi and strengthening Sith.

    9/10 - Savage Opress

    Uh oh, incoming "Savage only do saberz!! no force!" Simply put, the rate at which Savage picked up his training is astounding. In mere months, he mastered the saberstaff, developed considerable strength in telekinesis, Force sense, etc, to the point he became a worthy contender and a seriously dangerous threat for most of everyone listed above him during TCW, was sensed as a threat that was growing in power by the day by Dooku, and was worth being eliminated personally by Sidious. That learning rate can only be attributed to his bloodline, which is why it makes sense for him to share a top 10 spot with Maul and Talzin. I considered putting him above Ahsoka, and I personally believe his potential his higher than hers (one of the highest in the mythos for certain), but her greater experience, training and focus probably edge out his raw aptitude.

    Unknown/Speculative

    Could very well enter the list if we knew more about them.

    Darth Plagueis - Clearly very powerful, but by how much? Enough to train Palpatine to become the most powerful Sith in history but... Above Vader? Below Vader? On-par with Snoke and Talzin? Who knows. He would knock Savage off of his spot if I knew where to put him.

    Yaddle - A member of Yoda's species and because of this is attributed as having a similar aptitude for the Force as him, the question is, how much? We'll likely never know.

    Qui-Gon Jinn - His relationship to both the Living and Cosmic Force, and his deep understanding that led to him becoming a Force Ghost, should be considerable enough to at least have him mentioned. It's just one of those cases of apples and oranges; he wasn't the best fighter or telekinetic by a long shot, but then he has one of the rarest showings of Force Mastery we have ever seen. Who's to say which is better?

    Force Priestesses - It's been a while since watching the Yoda TCW arc and I've done little research on them, so I suppose the question is, are they possibly more powerful than any non-entity Force user? Or do they fall somewhere among mere mortals?

    Darth Bane & Banite Sith - How powerful was Canon Bane, and how powerful were his successors relative to a top 10 list? Perhaps we'll never know, but it's worth thinking about.

    Snoke - Responsible for Kylo Ren's training, presented as being considerably powerful, possibly Luke's main rival in TFA. We just don't know enough to know where to place him yet. Could be sub-Vader, could be higher than Talzin.

    Honourable Mentions

    Not quite top 10 ("yet", in some cases) but worthy of mention/debate.

    Kylo Ren - His bloodline, reputation as a Jedi killer, decades of training, and various Force feats (mainly including him fighting through both physical injury from an explosive to the stomach and emotional turmoil from killing Han) indicate to me he's worth mentioning.

    Asajj Ventress - Always a worthy contender during TCW, someone worth eliminating for Sidious' trouble.

    Quinlan Vos - His staggering power progression when using the Dark Side, to the point he could briefly outdo Dooku and pummel Ventress, indicate that he has plenty of potential which he took a shortcut to. Maybe there's a case for him being on the top 10?

    Kanan, Rey - Clearly novice Force wielders on average, but they have brief moments of... inspiration... which indicate their high potential when fully open to the Force. I suppose Kanan in the state of being where he can embarrass Maul is top 10 material, just as I'd mention Anakin and Luke's rare moments of immense success, but something feels wrong about including him.

    Pong Krell - Heh. I think he's clearly worth mentioning for his combative ability and esoteric powers alone, I know others will disagree.

    Vonn - He's supposedly better than Kylo in the coming movie? Don't know much about him but seemed worth mentioning.

    Closing Point

    Perhaps the timeless discussion of who is "strongest in the Force" is ultimately redundant? Perhaps the Force, which we know to have a will of its own, as a universally binding force, simply goes through its motions, maintaining balance, acting on motives and intentions mortal beings can have no comprehension of. Perhaps it is entirely random. All we know is, it manifests itself in living, sentient beings (as well as non-sentient species and plant-life), and there are beings who can harness the power of the Force (or allow the Force to harness them). There are gaping disparities in this concept of "balance", e.g Kanan making a mockery of Maul around the time he would struggle with Inquisitors, who Maul displayed no trouble against. Kylo Ren being defeated by Rey. Luke defeating Vader. Sidious nearly destroying the Jedi. The Jedi, a thousand years prior, nearly exterminating the Sith. There are also neutral Force groups such as the Nightsisters and Knights of Ren. Who's to say who is more powerful, more connected to the Force, who is "right", essentially, when the Force seemingly operates on its own accord? It's like I said before, who is to say any expression of the Force, whether it be Light Sided, Dark Sided, combative or spiritual necessarily holds more merit than another?

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    GeorgeWBush

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    Whose Vonn?

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    deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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    Whose Vonn?

    I was watching one of the leaked-script videos and the guy kept mentioning "Vonn" or "Von", who is played by Benicio Del Toro. He's supposedly a member of the Knights of Ren who is better than Kylo by episode 8. I haven't read the leaked script myself but if anyone knows more about him I suppose this is the place for it.

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    deactivated-5a4a9a7745a28

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    Good list, personally I consider Kylo actually more powerful than Ahsoka, by feats and holistic intent, and I would have thought that you put Maul/Dooku above Obi-Wan/Ashoka.

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    Good list, personally I consider Kylo actually more powerful than Ahsoka, by feats and holistic intent, and I would have thought that you put Maul/Dooku above Obi-Wan/Ashoka.

    An Ahsoka/Kylo debate would make this thread interesting.

    I do in a combative sense, but this thread isn't only about combat. Also, again, Ahsoka may have been weakened on Malachor, while Vader and Maul may have been amped. That would be a massive point in her favour.

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    deactivated-5a4a9a7745a28

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    @i_like_swords:

    An Ahsoka/Kylo debate would make this thread interesting

    I'm open for it, my examens are done so I've got time enough :p

    I do in a combative sense, but this thread isn't only about combat. Also, again, Ahsoka may have been weakened on Malachor, while Vader and Maul may have been amped. That would be a massive point in her favour.

    Good point and yeah agreed but we actually have no idea how much it would have amped both Vader and Maul. On KMC there was even someone who claimed that Filoni doesn't really takes a Nexus in consideration when writing lightsaber fight scenes because he didn't to that in the Grievous vs Ventress duel on Dathomir.

    I was watching one of the leaked-script videos and the guy kept mentioning "Vonn" or "Von", who is played by Benicio Del Toro. He's supposedly a member of the Knights of Ren who is better than Kylo by episode 8. I haven't read the leaked script myself but if anyone knows more about him I suppose this is the place for it.

    I've seen that to but is Von a member of the Knights of Ren? Since Kylo Ren has been confirmed to be the master of the Knights so it would be logical that he's the most powerful member.

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    deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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    @darthduelist9: Nexus' in general haven't been addressed in Canon, so it's murky ground for now. The closest thing is one of the people from the Rebels team speculating that the Inquisitor's gliding with their lightsabers was because of the location (implying Malachor empowered them), but he said it quite jokingly and also said that primarily, those kinds of questions should be directed to Filoni.

    Apparently he is. I can't say for sure. And yeah, I got the impression Kylo would be the top dog as well.

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    WollfMyth209

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    #9  Edited By WollfMyth209

    Yaddle should be higher, you fugg.

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    Fated_Xtasy

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    Lol.

    Good thread. I agree with most of it

    Nice job.

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    Brightsteel

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    You have Windu above Maul, and Dooku.

    I approve.

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    sirfizzwhizz

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    #12  Edited By sirfizzwhizz
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    echostarlord117

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    Good list. Reminds me of how boring canon is currently.

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    darthbane77

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    Good list, where is Palpatine though?

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    @darthbane77: I excluded him, Yoda and The Ones since their placement is kinda obvious.

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    darthbane77

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    Quite a good list. I think Mace has the potential to be a little higher mainly due to Vaapad's vagueness in canon in comparison to 'Legends' which fleshes out the super conducting loop more and the details of the fighting style, thus I've not got a pinpoint placement for Windu in canon other than the fact he's obviously one of the top tiers. Vonn and Snoke intrigue me and I'm interested in how they develop power wise. Nice work., ILS : )

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    sXe619

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    Good stuff. You should do one for Legends as well.

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    Brightsteel

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    wait

    just noticed you have anakin and vader above windu

    i'll cut your eyes out you bastard

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    AmethystGravity

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    Awesome list! I hope Luke does something interesting in the upcoming films; (and hopefully it won't be a copy of Yoda's actions in the OT).

    Talzin's showings always seemed to be hard to place for me, in that I could see a case that she did better than Yoda, or that she was amped more than Sidious, or Dooku's aid to Sidious was less than Maul's, etc, etc. Still, the 2 spot looks like a nice fit for her.

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    KJ27

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    #21  Edited By KJ27

    Ahsoka should definitely be moved up to the Dooku / Maul / Kenobi interval, and when more specifics about the Malachor nexus come out, possibly higher. Other than that, I agree with your list, ILS.

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    ricochicomalico

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    Nice list, an interesting read.

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    Yaddle should be higher, you fugg.

    Where would you put her on the top 10, canon only?

    Quite a good list. I think Mace has the potential to be a little higher mainly due to Vaapad's vagueness in canon in comparison to 'Legends' which fleshes out the super conducting loop more and the details of the fighting style, thus I've not got a pinpoint placement for Windu in canon other than the fact he's obviously one of the top tiers. Vonn and Snoke intrigue me and I'm interested in how they develop power wise. Nice work., ILS : )

    Thanks. I always got the impression from the movie, years before making a CV account or engaging in Star Wars beyond just the films, that Sidious faked it. And there's some passing mentions on the SW website here and there recounting the duel where it'll say something like "with Palpatine supposedly subdued", hinting that he may not necessarily be losing honestly.

    That said, it's still enough for me to put Windu above anyone that isn't a prophet, entity or Yoda/Sids.

    Yeah. Snoke I suspect is going to be assuming the sorcerer role from RotJ Sids thematically but who knows, maybe he can lightsaber.

    @sxe619 said:

    Good stuff. You should do one for Legends as well.

    Heh. Too convoluted. I don't have many serious opinions on Legends, just ones I enjoy.

    Talzin's showings always seemed to be hard to place for me, in that I could see a case that she did better than Yoda, or that she was amped more than Sidious, or Dooku's aid to Sidious was less than Maul's, etc, etc. Still, the 2 spot looks like a nice fit for her.

    A lot of people are split regarding who contributed what during the Talzin fight, because the only two who weren't weakened during the fight were Maul and Sidious, and the few panels we have aren't much to go on.

    I interpreted Talzin's loss as being due to the fact Sidious is already stronger than her, the ritual weakened her and she's just been lightning-fried out of Dooku's body. Maul's strength, which would stifle Dooku's weakened contribution, logically can't be enough to make up for Talzin's shortcomings against the most powerful Sith ever. I'd go as far as to say him and Dooku didn't make a world of difference.

    Awesome list! I hope Luke does something interesting in the upcoming films; (and hopefully it won't be a copy of Yoda's actions in the OT)..

    Thanks! I hope Luke's action scenes are mindblowing, OCW style.

    @kj27 said:

    Ahsoka should definitely be moved up to the Dooku / Maul / Kenobi interval, and when more specifics about the Malachor nexus come out, possibly higher. Other than that, I agree with your list, ILS.

    I'll have a clearer idea after a few things are confirmed, if they ever are, namely:

    • The effect of nexuses in canon on Jedi and Sith alike, to see if she was weakened and Vader was amped
    • If Maul was in his prime or not
    • If Maul is indeed superior to Ashoka like the website suggests
    • If Maul can perform just as admirably against Vader
    • If Filoni's quote about Ahsoka knowing Vader being useful to her is meant in a combative sense
    • If Vader would visa versa have any kind of edge from knowing Ahsoka

    All in all though, with none of that confirmed either way, I place her just below those three.

    Your best possible outcome would be Ahsoka, on a nexus which weakened her and strengthened her opponents, stalemating a more powerful Maul, and performing admirably against Vader with no aid from her knowing Anakin intimately, with Maul performing less impressively against Vader when the time comes.

    In fact, I would advise you that upon hearing of these revelations, you have plenty of tissues nearby. Just in case.

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    WollfMyth209

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    Where would you put her on the top 10, canon only?

    Above Mace. So far, nothing in-canon notes he's the second greatest Jedi power-wise and Yaddle has been compared to Yoda :) :) :) :)

    Oh, and Dooku/Maul are > Kenobi, ngl.

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    KJ27

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    #25  Edited By KJ27

    @i_like_swords: I'm confident most of that will eventually go in my favor. Ahsoka's ascendancy has been inevitable, and everything is coming to fruition. :)

    Though, hypothetically, if everything you listed turns out to go in Ahsoka's favor, where would you rank her? I've been contemplating it and I honestly have no clue how high she'd be raised in that case.

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    @i_like_swords:

    Thanks. I always got the impression from the movie, years before making a CV account or engaging in Star Wars beyond just the films, that Sidious faked it. And there's some passing mentions on the SW website here and there recounting the duel where it'll say something like "with Palpatine supposedly subdued", hinting that he may not necessarily be losing honestly.

    My point wasn't so much that the fight was completely without circumstance as, like you mentioned here, there is some evidence to suggest that Sidious wasn't giving it his all, at least toward the end of the fight. It's more so that the Vaapad amp that people tend to view as the main factor as to why Mace did so well isn't as clearly defined in canon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but judging from what I've seen in canon so far in regards to Vaapad it appears more like another term for Juyo rather than differentiating it with the added mentality and philosophy the style has in 'Legends'. Thus, I view Vaapad as a grey area that may not have as big an impact on the fight in the context of canon. For all we know it could be fleshed out more in later canon stories or source books, we'll have to wait and see.

    That said, it's still enough for me to put Windu above anyone that isn't a prophet, entity or Yoda/Sids.

    Agreed. Even if Mace's showing against Sidious in canon is a little more impressive (assuming Vaapad isn't as big a factor) I doubt it should bump him up that high. However, I don't see it as too far fetched that he could be at least Vader level in canon.

    Yeah. Snoke I suspect is going to be assuming the sorcerer role from RotJ Sids thematically but who knows, maybe he can lightsaber.

    I would personally like to see him be more of a sorcerer. I think it would be interesting if him and Luke have a force duel of sorts but if he happens to have a saber it wouldn't bother me too much unless it turns out the hologram in TFA isn't deceiving and he is legitimately that size then it'll be a bit awkward.

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    nfactor1995

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    Good list man! Though if this is strictly canon, I question whether the likes of Anakin and Vader are really above Mace, who apparently is on Sidious's tier. I'm excited to see what they do with Luke in Episode VIII though. Also...didn't Mace already beat Talzin?

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    reactor

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    Very good list, dude. I'd put Vader as clearly being above Anakin tho. New Disney Star Wars canon continuity states that suited-up Vader was more powerful and skilled than Anakin ever was, and has apparently dismissed/abandoned the "loss of flesh=loss of power" approach from Legends. That's a pretty minor thing for me, tho.

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    Shoaka

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    Okay, first off. There are circumstantial factors to consider with Luke's 'defeat' of Vader. I concede that Luke may be more powerful in TFA, but it is very dubious to claim Luke was more powerful in RoTJ.

    Kylo has done absolutely nothing to warrant any type of consideration. Unless Rey is supposed to be that damn good.

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    alextheboss

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    For me as of now

    1. Yoda/Sidious

    2. Anakin/Vader

    3. Dooku

    4. Mace

    5. Maul

    6. Obi-wan

    7. Luke until he gets more feats

    8. Ahsoka

    9. Savage

    10. Qui-gon (could be higher)

    Not sure where to place Mother Talzin. I'm pretty sure she is usually amped by magic too.

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    SirDrProfessor

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    Yep, I agree with this though I would put Windu in with the 6/7/8 group because I can't really think of anything that really clearly distinguishes him as more powerful than them.

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    The_Fub

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    #32  Edited By The_Fub

    ^^^ You mean except beat Sidious right? and being on par with Dooku during TPM? People kill me. Is it that hard to admit (now that the Legends fleshing out of Vapaad is not being taken into account, which I still think is marginally to extremely overblown) that Windu is at least on Sidious's level? Im not saying he would beat him in a majority fight, and I still believe that that fight is circumstantial but to me, when I watched the movies, I always had the impression that Windu => Sidious in sabers marginally, but Sidious >> Windu in the force. At the end of the fight I do believe that Sidious could have killed Windu via the force, but decided to manipulate Anakin instead. I still think, however, in canon, that Mace beat Sidious fair and square in a duel. He also held his own in canon against another being considered around Sidious's level, being Mother Talzin.

    Mace should be higher then Vader/Anakin from that feat alone, ignoring the fact that he was constantly compared to Yoda. As Anakin once said while stroking Obi Wan's ego "Your as wise as Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu". Nick Gallard also said Mace Windu was the second strongest jedi.

    Mace definitely deserves the #3 spot, maybe alongside Dooku (although personally Mace > Dooku in canon)

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    deactivated-5a98875cd0f94

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    Really nice list.

    Though Force-wise, Savage>Ahsoka, Maul>Kenobi. Aside from that, really good.

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    LordOfTheLight

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    #34  Edited By LordOfTheLight

    Good list. As far as 6, 7 and 8 are concerned, Dooku>Obi Wan>=Maul.

    And I am not so sure about placing Talzin above Vader on normal ground considering she had great power in her homeworld. On Dathomir, she is Yoda/Sidious level, but definitely not in a neutral area.

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    Denam_Pavel

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    1. Emperor Palpatine
    2. Master Yoda
    3. Mace Windu
    4. Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader
    5. Count Dooku
    6. Luke Skywalker (ROTJ)
    7. Obi-Wan Kenobi
    8. Darth Maul
    9. Qui-Gon Jinn
    10. Ki-Adi-Mundi

    I feel Mundi was one of the principal Jedi Masters Palpatine made sure wasn't on Coruscant to help Anakin and Mace, along with Yoda.

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    PrincessSunbutt

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    Really good list

    This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

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