SWR Maul's and Kenobi's power levels

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Posted by Erkan12 (5548 posts) - - Show Bio

Did Old Maul become weaker in years at Malachor ?

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Let's start with our old Kenobi.

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As you all know, Kenobi has grown a little weak by ANH, in SWR S2 he is 2 years less worn out, even if we take him as of ANH the difference between RotS and ANH isn't as huge as some people think.

Executive producer Dave Filoni states that the Grand Inquisitor couldn't survive a confrontation with Kenobi in this time of period.

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Filoni : ''The Emperor and Vader don’t really want them around either. But they’re so unnoticeable, you needed a group of hunters, attack dogs. And so we have an Inquisitor that goes out and hunts these guys down. Now if he was to hunt a guy down, let’s say he’s somewhere on Tatooine and he runs into Obi-Wan Kenobi, probably the Inquisitor won’t survive that. But if he did, he would call Vader up and go “You better get out here.” ''

--- http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-rebels-inquisitor-darth-vader/

Kenobi's duel against Darth Vader;

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''Their lightsabers locked in mid-air, the two powerful warriors stand motionless like titans out of some lost time.''

-Taken from ; Episode IV - A New Hope (2015, Marvel)

Kenobi moves too fast for his age, keeping Vader at bay ;

''Executing a move of incredible swiftness for one so old, Kenobi lunged at the massive shape. Vader blocked the stab with equal speed, riposting with a counterslash that Kenobi barely parried. Another parry and Kenobi countered again, using this opportunity to move around the towering Dark Lord.''

''They continued to trade blows, with the old man now backing toward the hangar. Once, his saber and Vader's locked, the interaction of the two energy fields producing a violent sparking and flashing. A low buzzing sound rose from the straining power units as each saber sought to override the other.''

- Taken from ; Novelization Episode IV A New Hope

Even 2 years after the SWR S3, Kenobi was still able to stalemate with Darth Vader in ANH, who is already in his prime by SWR S2.

Vader specifically states that Kenobi still has his skills.

''Kenobi heard the approaching commotion and spared a glance back into the hangar. The squad of troopers bearing down on him was enough to show that he was trapped.

Vader took immediate advantage of the momentary distraction to bring his saber over and down. Kenobi somehow managed to deflect the sweeping blow, at once parrying and turning a complete circle.

"You still have your skill, but your power fades. Prepare to meet the Force, Obi-Wan."

- Taken from ; Novelization Episode IV A New Hope

It's worthy of note that Vader is in his prime by SWR Season 2 which takes place 2 years before ANH ,

Pablo Hidalgo : ''This is Vader and his prime... You've got to remember how far we've come from the character when he was Anakin...''

--- Rebels Recon #2.01: Inside "The Siege of Lothal"

And Vader was already more powerful than Anakin by the timeline of Lords of the Sith where it takes place 14 years before ANH.

''He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it broken, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.''

(...)

''When man and machine were one, he no longer felt the absence of his legs or arms, the pain of his flesh, but the hate remained, and the rage still burned. Those, he never relinquished, and he never felt more connected to the Force than when his fury burned.''

(...)

''The armor separated him from the galaxy, from everyone, made him singular, freed him from the needs of the flesh, the concerns of the body that once had plagued him, and allowed him to focus solely on his relationship to the Force.''

--- Taken from ; Lords of the Sith

Kenobi states that Vader's power has matured since RotS.

''Kenobi gauged the shrinking distance between the oncoming troops and himself, then turned a pitying gaze on Vader. "This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words."

"Your philosophies no longer confuse me, old man," Vader growled contemptuously. "I am the master now."

- Taken from ; Novelization Episode IV A New Hope

Maul on the other hand, was still agile and fast enough to take on 3 Inquisitors with no trouble, something even SWR Ahsoka failed to do.

SWR Maul's agility and his skills ;

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Takes on both Fifth Brother and Eighth Brother this time ;

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SWR Maul's Force powers ;

Casually Force chokes the Inquisitor Seventh Sister.

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And Force blasts the Inquisitor Eighth Brother.

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By using the Force, extracts information from Hera Syndulla, and creates illusions and affects Ezra's mind.

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Henry Gilroy : ''The visions are entirely manufactured by Maul.''

Source : Rebels Recon #3.10: Inside "Visions and Voices" (2016)

Moves faster than SWR Ahsoka, and saves Ezra from Eighth Brother with a Force throw ;

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Maul states that it's the logical choice to pairing the weakest Jedi with himself, which indicates that SWR Maul > SWR Ahsoka, as well as starwars.com states that the logical choice was Maul is being the strongest and he should match with the weakest Ezra.

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''Kanan agrees to split the group up, the logical choice pairing Maul with the weakest of the Jedi.''

--- http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/star-wars-rebels/twilight-of-the-apprentice-episode-gallery-2

Another clue about SWR Maul's superiority to SWR Ahsoka that Maul was able to turn his back to Tano in the middle of the duel,

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Turning back to Ahsoka in the mid-duel is a dangerous act, remember what happened to Vader when he did that ;

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So far what we got for SWR Maul > SWR Ahsoka ;

1- Maul states that it's logical to think he is the strongest and no one disagrees, includes Ahsoka

2- Maul was able to take 3 Inquisitors at the same time where Ahsoka fails

3- Maul moved faster than Ahsoka when he saved Ezra from the Inquisitor Eighth Brother.

4- Maul was able to turn his back to Ahsoka in the mid-duel, and we know how dangerous Ahsoka when Vader turned his back to her.

As for the counter arguments for why SWR Ahsoka is being superior to Maul, let's see closely to the interview ;

StarWars.com: I wanted to start by going back to “Siege of Lothal.”

Dave Filoni: Oh boy. [Laughs]

StarWars.com: [Laughs] It feels like it was three years ago.

Dave Filoni: Right?

StarWars.com: So what I took from it was, you kind of present the Vader I think everybody has wanted to see. It shows the strategy of Anakin Skywalker combined with the ruthlessness of Vader that we knew in the movies. I just wanted to ask how you came to that version of him, and was it exciting to present Vader at a time in his life that had really never been explored before?

Dave Filoni: I have a strange kind of entry into it because I’ve worked with Anakin Skywalker as a character for so long. The thing that’s really apparent is just how different they are. Anakin and Vader have a different manner of speaking, and they have a different way of, obviously, reacting to things. Their physical nature is similar but different. When you deal with Vader, you have to remember that he really is Darth Vader. Everybody knows that he is Anakin Skywalker, but when he becomes Darth Vader, the good person is largely destroyed. We made a special trailer focused on Ahsoka and Vader, and someone was saying that when Vader speaks, they didn’t think of it as Anakin. I thought, well, yeah, why would you? That’s Darth Vader. It’s kind of interesting to have that evolution.

In Rebels, we wanted to see Darth Vader do things that we hadn’t really seen him do before, but still stay true to the character. One opportunity was showing Vader as a pilot. Anakin was a pilot, but we had never really seen Vader piloting the TIE fighter after A New Hope. So, there was a chance to do something with that starfighter and show Vader blowing away a rebel fleet, which was something we knew he did, but we never got to see. I was pretty pleased with the results. It felt, to a lot of people, like this was the Vader they had imagined.

StarWars.com: Let me ask you about the “apprentice lives” moment in “Siege of Lothal.” First, I’m wondering — was that line a nod to the “Ahsoka lives” movement?

Dave Filoni: [Laughs] No, it really wasn’t. It was just the right line for the moment for me. It just seemed like something Vader would say when I was phrasing the dialogue. I actually storyboarded that whole sequence on a whiteboard at Lucasfilm. I wanted to build everything to the moment where Vader realizes that Ahsoka’s alive. That was really the key. To understand that Vader would be the one to know that she’s alive and she would have no clue what it means and who he is. That allowed us to really build the mystery that we see in the entire season surrounding Ahsoka Tano and Darth Vader.

the-apprentice-lives-ahsoka-tano

StarWars.com: But does she get kind of an inkling? ‘Cause after that episode it seems like there’s a sadness about her. My interpretation was she didn’t know clearly, but she knew that there was something about this person she connected with.

Dave Filoni: I could answer that implicitly, if you want me to. I never know how fun it is for people to know answers to things. This is something that George [Lucas] and I talked about. When Order 66 is called and Ahsoka survives it, she has a moment where she reaches out into the Force and she looks for Anakin’s presence. She could feel Anakin’s presence in the Force, no matter where she was in the galaxy. It’s not like a metal detector — she couldn’t just go right to where he was, but she would get a feeling that her friend is still safe and alive. When she reaches out after Order 66, she doesn’t get that. It’s gone, and so she believes him to be dead.

When Ahsoka reaches out with Kanan to see who Vader is, that’s different. She digs in and she’s so close to him physically, flying after him, and strikes into his consciousness. It’s almost like realizing something that’s so jarring you can’t handle it. Like Force feedback. She gets knocked out because, I believe, in a flash of a moment, she sees this truth that there’s a layer of hate. An angry, horrible being, and then underneath it is Anakin Skywalker. But when Ezra asks her, “Do you know who or what he is,” she wouldn’t necessarily say yes she does. She is open to the idea that there’s something about this Darth Vader that’s familiar to her, but she’s not ready to name him Anakin Skywalker yet. She has to do a search. That’s why she’s saying there are questions, questions that need to be answered. In the very next episode she starts a kind of long exploration of who Darth Vader is and, specifically, where does he come from and what does it all mean and can it be true. Her unconscious mind knows it’s Anakin; her conscious mind cannot accept that Anakin could be this horrible person.

StarWars.com: Very good. I’m glad you explained it.

Dave Filoni: [Laughs] It’s been thoroughly thought out.

Dave Filoni's original concept sketch of the Vader and Ahsoka confrontation during production of Star Wars: The Clone Wars.

Dave Filoni’s original concept sketch of the Vader and Ahsoka confrontation, made during production of Star Wars: The Clone Wars.

StarWars.com: You mentioned that you talked about what happened after Order 66 with George Lucas. Obviously, as you’re writing the episodes, things might change or you can develop scenes. Some of these things, like Ahsoka and Rex playing a role in the development of the rebellion, Ahsoka connecting with Vader during this battle — how many of these are ideas you had back when you were working with George Lucas on The Clone Wars, versus ideas that came to you now that felt right for the story?

Dave Filoni: There was some discussion with George that Rex would be involved in the Rebel Alliance. We had some discussions about that towards the last season. The conversation I had with George about Ahsoka was mainly pertaining to Vader, and what would she know, what wouldn’t she know, because it was George’s feeling that she survived Order 66. So I made sure to discuss with him his feelings on that, and then I’ve made choices since then. That’s kind of the world that we all live in now as Star Wars creators. We have to make our choices based on where we’re at in the shows that we’re doing. But her being a Fulcrum-like agent, a part of building this rebellion and stuff, was never something we really discussed in detail. Maybe we discussed as far as possibilities. It was really something that [executive producer] Simon Kinberg and I developed along with [Season One executive producer] Greg Weisman when we decided that Ahsoka could play this Fulcrum character.

Originally, I was thinking Ahsoka was much more of a passive player. That she wasn’t a combatant as much. I later changed my mind and thought, “We really need to see the warrior in her in this volatile time.” We’re always evolving the characters and their stories to try and get the best thing possible.

Over the years, I have illustrated the conflict between Ahsoka Tano and Darth Vader many times with several different endings. [Laughs] Interestingly, the way we finally ended up doing it wasn’t really in a scenario or place that I ever pictured. I certainly never knew about Kanan or Ezra or any of them. It’s been fascinating to tell this story with another crew of characters that I really had no knowledge of back when we were doing Clone Wars. Of course, there are certain moments during the confrontation that absolutely ring true to original ideas that I had. One example is the [Ahsoka/Vader] sword fight. I told [the Lucasfilm Story Group’s] Kiri Hart, “Well, I always pictured this going this way,” and she was like, “Well, let’s do it.” I always appreciate that they are very supportive of what I want to do with the character and where I think she should go. The Story Group is incredibly insightful and I think they helped develop the story in fantastic ways.

Star Wars Rebels - AT-TE

StarWars.com: I want to go through the season a bit. So, the return of the clones. How did you get the idea that they would be in this kind of [Hayao] Miyazaki-esque AT-TE, spending their retirement as fishermen?

Dave Filoni: [Laughs] I, for whatever reason, was obsessed with this idea that they were fishing. I grew up in Pittsburgh and saw a lot of older people move to Florida, get an RV. I gravitated towards some version of that for our old clone friends. That they were literally retired veterans on an elongated fishing trip. They had found some way to sustain their life by rod and reel. I eventually came up with the idea [of the joopa creature] to give them something to fish for under the surface of the planet. I guess it’s just from my East Coast upbringing — that’s what a retirement community is kind of like to me. [Laughs]

When I was telling [the team], “I think they’re in a tank,” people were getting really behind that. They liked that idea. I wanted it to feel like this bizarre walking menagerie, you know, and it is like this Howl’s Moving Castle in its own way. So any analogy to the great Miyazaki is welcome in my book, so I’ll take it. We’re strides away from anywhere near him, but you can’t help but be influenced by an animator of such caliber. It is a bit of an homage and I guess just a good idea.

StarWars.com: Well, I love that, just because I’m from the East Coast also.

Dave Filoni: It made sense to you, right?

StarWars.com: It did, it made total sense. And the other thing was that, I think Rex, the way he looks and the way he carries himself, he felt like a grandfather to me. He had that grandfather type quality. Were you going for something like that?

Dave Filoni: Yeah, I mean, it was just a fact that clones age quick, and so he was always going to be older. I never intended the Santa Claus-ish nature of Rex. I really didn’t think about that until later. I just always liked those Miyazaki characters that have that big old beard. I always loved the way they’re animated and I was dead set on Rex having one like that. The beard is important — it’s in an interesting part of the character. I also wanted them to be bigger guys. You know, they still like to eat well and do their thing. I did sketches of all these things for the [animators] to look at, as they went to do the designs and I think everyone did a great job of adapting them.

clones-saluting

StarWars.com: I’m curious how you think Rex, Wolffe, and Gregor view their service, because I’m thinking that if they know Order 66 was a lie, they must have some sense of guilt or regret. Would you say that they do, or can they distance themselves from that?

Dave Filoni: I would say they’re pretty conflicted about that. I think that different clones have dealt with that in different ways. Wolffe has a very hard time separating realities from himself. He still has, or had, some level of loyalty to the Empire and what it was doing. It’s hard for him to realize that it’s not the Republic anymore. I think that they mainly care about their brothers-in-arms and what they went through. I think that most of them, over time, realized that Order 66 was a terrible thing. Some of them benefited from it but all the clones eventually are decommissioned because they just get too old. They outlive their usefulness and then they see that they were exploited and used. Their story is kind of a sad one at the end of the day. I think that’s why Rex would have been on the run at the end of Order 66. He had gone completely AWOL in aiding Ahsoka’s escape from the order. We actually had that story written. It was the finale of Clone Wars.

Ahsoka and Rex were together. They were always intended to be together when Order 66 was called. This is why you don’t see Rex in the film [Revenge of the Sith] or Ahsoka in the film. We had actually accounted for where they were during the film.

StarWars.com: But they were still fighting with the Republic up until that point?

Dave Filoni: Well, Rex definitely was, but Ahsoka still thought of herself as outside the Jedi Order.

StarWars.com: Cool. Well, I hope we see that one day in some form.

Dave Filoni: Yeah, well, you know it could be some kids that grew up on Clone Wars and years later work for Lucasfilm that convince somebody to finish it. And I would be alright with that. It’s just nice that people care.

Ezra-with-sith-holocron

StarWars.com: This season, it seems to me like Ezra takes two steps forward and one step back. He gets more powerful and he shows leadership and he comes to grips with his parents’ death. But at the same time, he acts out more aggressively and he seems to enjoy combat almost a little bit too much. So it seems like he’s open to the dark side. Is this just part of his nature or is this a failing on Kanan’s part as a teacher? What would you say is going on with him?

Dave Filoni: I would say it’s just the nature of things. It’s everyone’s nature. When you have power and you gain more power, power is corrupting, and you have to be vigilant. You have to try to remain selfless, otherwise you can do terrible things. You don’t really start out saying, “Today I’m going to do terrible things,” necessarily. You know, Anakin does terrible things and he thinks he’s actually saving people. He thinks everybody else has betrayed him.

Ezra, just in a similar fashion to Anakin, he thinks he’s helping by trying to save people and protect his friends. He thinks that finding power will be a way to achieve this. He’s getting older and more rebellious — in some ways he’s your typical teenager. This is true in Star Wars as much as in the real world. Ezra is going to challenge authority and he’s going to ask more questions. If he didn’t and he was perfect, it wouldn’t be real; forget it just not even being a good story, but it wouldn’t be believable. So, the fact that he is out there challenging things is just kind of the way it goes. We’ll see what the repercussions are for that.

StarWars.com: Right, he has to experience it so he learns what is right and what’s wrong.

Dave Filoni: Yeah. He’s going to have missteps, and you just hope when you do they don’t cost you, but you start to get the feeling that Ezra’s missteps could have a significant impact on the group.

Zeb-and-Kallus

StarWars.com: Two of my favorite episodes were “The Protector of Concord Dawn” and “The Honorable Ones.” What I feel is different about them is that they were really intimate episodes. They were on a smaller scale and just kind of drilled down on these characters. What can you say about the making of those two episodes in particular?

Dave Filoni: Well, a lot of our goal in Season Two was to really focus on characters and give them more background, depth, and history. We really tried to do that with Sabine. We always promised that you were going to find out more about her Mandalorian heritage and we had this great opportunity to expand on the culture we had created in Clone Wars. What happened to those people was pretty important, and also furthers one of our own characters in Sabine Wren. I thought it was just a really nice exploration, especially because it was Kanan and Sabine together and we had never, up until that point, done a Kanan and Sabine story.

StarWars.com: Right, it’s an interesting pairing.

Dave Filoni: Yeah. I think that we’ve noticed, with the 21 minutes that we have to work with, that the show tends to actually be better when it’s about fewer characters. In that way, we seem to be able to service the characters better. The finales are great but, my gosh, we don’t have a lot of time to service some really amazing, important characters, and it can be quite a juggling act to get those characters’ stories told. So, I think that’s a little bit of what you feel when you have episodes like [“Legends of the Lasat”]. Here are more Lasats that you didn’t know were alive, and we have to figure out who these characters are and what drives them.

The Kallus/Zeb episode is like that, as well. You trap them in a one-room ice cave and yet it still feels like a really compelling story. It doesn’t suffer for being one location the whole time. Hera got her episode like that, as did Chopper. Everyone got their featured episode this season, which is something a lot of fans had said they wanted. They liked Ezra and Kanan, but they wanted to see a little more focus on the other characters, so it was fun to kind of branch out and give people some diversity and deeper insight into characters.

StarWars.com: I wanted to dovetail back to Ahsoka and the way you handled her this year. You touched on this a little bit. It’s interesting that you said you kind of [originally] wanted her to be in the background more, because I felt like although we definitely see her mix it up, she was not super involved. I think it made her more mythic. It reminded me of old Ben Kenobi and his role in A New Hope. What did you want to convey about her this season?

Dave Filoni: Well, we were actually very careful. Once we brought her back, there was a lot of excitement — more than we had anticipated. The first day back in the writing room everybody was like, “Oh, this is great, we’ll have Ahsoka do this and we’ll have Ahsoka do that,” and as we’re kind of sitting there, it’s really apparent that this could become The Ahsoka Tano Show really quickly. That’s not the direction we wanted to go in for Rebels. This show is primarily about Ezra and Kanan and what they’re doing. If we focus too much on Ahsoka, we’re not showing the importance of our main characters anymore. It was important that if we had Ahsoka in the story it be in service to Ezra and Kanan somehow, that her story crossed with theirs because it was important for them. Those were the ground rules that we had going into it.

We used to have this problem in Clone Wars when we would try to put Yoda in a story and it would be like, “Yeah, if Yoda’s there, this isn’t really a problem is it?” That’s because Yoda’s going to go in there and kick everyone’s butt. We all felt that Ahsoka, the only person that could really match her in this time period, blow for blow, would be Vader or the Emperor. So that was why you didn’t see her as much and when she showed up it was purposeful. It had meaning again. You always have to serve your story, and the best way we could do that was by actually limiting Ahsoka in the story, so when she showed up, you knew it was going to be important.

ahsoka-anakin

StarWars.com: So she gets her final conversation with Anakin in the Jedi Temple. I interviewed Ashley [Eckstein] and I told her that it seemed like a bookend to their relationship. Did you worry that you would not get that opportunity? That’s question one, and question two, how did it feel to write Anakin and Ahsoka again, but with an Anakin that’s different than the one you really worked with?

Dave Filoni: I’d been searching for a way to bring back a lot of the Clone Wars cast as a thank you to them for being such an important part of that show. I had figured out a way to get almost everybody back and there was a lot of talk about how we could bring Matt Lanter back. Matt is a very talented actor. He can do a lot of things, and so there was some thinking that maybe he could come back as somebody else. But then, we had devised that way of showing Obi-Wan as a hologram and that worked really well, so I thought that might be the way to do it. The holocron seemed reasonable; it could have a history of Anakin Skywalker on it training kids how to fight with a lightsaber. I wrote so much of Anakin and worked with Matt for so long that it wasn’t hard to do. It’s just kind of like getting on a bike. You remember the beats of it and how he speaks. I ended up writing most of the Ahsoka dialogue between her and Anakin too, because I know the characters so well. It was a lot of fun and I knew Matt would deliver. He loved it and it was great having him in the role again.

Rebels, in the end, has allowed us to follow through on some stories for a few Clone Wars characters, which I really didn’t think would be possible. The fact that the fans wanted it, and that the Lucasfilm Story Group was excited about telling these stories and seeing these characters again, made it possible. It’s been amazing. It really speaks to this generation of fans and who their favorite characters are. They’re fans of Rex and Ahsoka as much as they’re fans of Luke and Leia.

I’m very grateful for the fans’ loyalty and their campaigning. It made it even more entertaining when I was messing with them relentlessly about what was going to happen in the [season] finale.

StarWars.com: Well, that’s the real fun of it, right?

Dave Filoni: It really is a great joy. I have to say it is a great joy for me. [Laughs]

StarWars.com: Every job has its perks.

Dave Filoni: [Laughs] Yeah, and this is definitely one of those for me. It’s fantastic to just make it gut-wrenching for them right down to the last moment. So I’m having a great time.

yoda-rebels-waving

StarWars.com: When Ahsoka’s running out of the Temple and she sees Yoda, that’s from Last Crusade, right?

Dave Filoni: Absolutely. I couldn’t help myself. It’s just the right thing. Yoda and Ahsoka kind of had a bad moment when she was expelled from the Temple, and I just couldn’t have them get so close to meeting without seeing each other and without kids knowing there’s no hard feelings there. That there’s some forgiveness there. I just thought that was important to show, so it was a fun little moment and it was absolutely Last Crusade — the Templar knight saying goodbye.

StarWars.com: What I love about the show is that it’s a meeting point between all facets of the saga. Can you talk about what is great about that, but also maybe what is the challenge of having all those toys in the toy box?

Dave Filoni: Well, the toys are always fighting for screen time. That’s the challenge. [Laughs] Everybody wants to be in the episode and you’re never going to have enough time to service every story. So again, it’s about making characters meaningful. I work on Rebels and story in the same way I worked on Clone Wars. Whether it’s the Legends era or the classic trilogy or the prequel trilogy, these are Star Wars characters and stories.

We have borrowed from as many places as we can. Our carrier that the rebels steal is actually from the West End games. I believe it was a design that Doug Chiang had done for a roleplaying manual. I said, “Well, we’ve got an aircraft carrier, let’s use that.” I worry about people just inventing things for the sake of inventing new things. I don’t want to do that. I think Star Wars fans are immensely loyal and have been loyal for a long time, and probably, there’s somebody out there that played that game that knew there was a carrier like that, and if we put it in the show and they see that, they might think, “Wow, I used to play that! That’s amazing.” I think we’ve tried to honor that loyalty and show them that we care. It’s something I used to do with George. We had a motto — “We never throw anything out.” We just had all these things and we find ways to use them and, as long as it makes sense for the story, you’re alright bringing them in.

StarWars.com: Well, the Fifth Brother is based on a design from The Force Awakens, right?

Dave Filoni: That’s right, that’s absolutely correct. I was sitting in on those [The Force Awakens] meetings early on and I’d see some pretty cool stuff, and I was like, “Heyyyyy… Is anybody going to use that?” And they were like, “Well, we don’t know,” and I said, “Well, if he [J.J. Abrams] doesn’t use that, I’m taking that.” And J.J. went in a different direction and I said, “Hey, where’d that thing go? I want that guy with the hat. Where’d that guy go?” Why waste it? It was a great design. I try to utilize everything. I keep my eyes open when I walk around the studio or when I walk around the film sets. I’m always looking for those bizarre little things that we can borrow from. Everybody gets it. We’re all fans, and part of Star Wars was imagining that every bizarre background character had an incredible story. For me, it’s fun to try to tell those incredible stories.

Stay tuned for part two of StarWars.com’s interview with Dave Filoni!

This is the full interview, and if you noticed, both the interviewer and Dave Filoni never mentioned about Maul in the first half. And the interview starts with ''Siege of Lothal'' .

Why would Filoni want to spoil the appearance of Maul in the show by adding his name to that statement ?

And considering Maul's portrayal in the actual show, it would be weird to think that Ahsoka was actually superior to Maul. Maul was considering her his inferior by saying ; ''There is nothing you can do to stop me.'' and ''Running awayagain Lady Tano ?''.

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Maul, despite being cocky sometimes, he can feel how powerful his opponent could be, if Ahsoka was simply superior he could feel it and he wouldn't simply say these as far as I understand. Also, if Ahsoka was his equal, let alone being his superior, why Kanan and Ahsoka let Ezra to go with Maul ? It was the most logical choice to pair the strongest with the weakest.

This is just obvious, stated by the canon show itself that Maul was obviously superior and they couldn't even say that Ahsoka was Maul's equal and she could also go with Ezra.

As for another counter argument about Maul's superiority, where he fails to kill Kanan quickly and get himself BFR'ed.

Well, if you want to ignore the PIS, then you just can't ignore these facts either ;

1- Kanan was extremely amped.

This is confirmed by Kanan's voice actor ;

Freddie Prinze Jr. : ''That's where Force takes over, not the Jedi. The Force takes over. Kanan vs. the Grand Inquisitor, that's Kanan releasing his fear and his attachment, and sort of being like water. This is a Force overpowering moment.

So for that moment between the two of them, that's a Force explosion. Kanan isn't controlling that, that's the Force dictating what's going to happen to him.''

Source : First Order Transmissions #197: Star Wars Rebels Finale Interview

Voice actor of Kanan simply describes it as a ''force overpowering moment'' and ''a force explosion'' which outweights the amplification that he take when he defeated the Grand Inquisitor.

Let's look what Kanan did with a lesser amplification ;

''His master's voice echoed through the chamber. "You were right. I was a coward. But now I know there's something stronger than fear-far stronger. The Force." Kanan brought his blade upward. "Let me show you how strong it is."

The Inquisitor held up his lightsaber and triggered his blades to spin. They whirled around the axis of his hilt like a propeller, forming a circular shield of energy.

On his downward arc, Kanan found the narrowest of gaps between the rotating blades. He sliced the Inquisitor's hilt in half.

The Inquisitor dropped the two pieces of his lightsaber. Losing his balance, he tumbled backward, saving himself from falling farther by grabbing the catwalk ledge.''

--- Taken from ; Battle to the End

Another with a lesser amplification, he ragdolled the Grand Inquisitor with the Force.

''Ezra wobbled to his feet, raising his slingshot. The Inquisitor strode toward him. "Your 'master' cannot save you, boy. He is unfocused and undisciplined."

"Then we're perfect for each other," Ezra said. Before he got to fire, the Inquisitor flew upward, smashing into the ceiling.

Kanan stood behind him, lowering his arm. Ezra didn't wait for the Inquisitor to fall. He sprinted to his teacher and the two ran down the corridor.''

---Taken from ; Droids in Distress

We all need to agree that Kanan is a dangerous opponent when he is amped, and in his duel with Maul he was extremely amped.

2- Maul underestimated Kanan.

It's true, Maul underestimates his opponent when he thinks they are desperate. He did the same thing with unarmed TPM Kenobi, which resulted in his ultimate demise, and he thought that blind Kanan would be helpless, and I can't blame Maul for this. Kanan was blind, and he was no match for Maul's skills in normal circumstances, but not only Maul underestimated him, Kanan was also amped by the Force, which resulted in Maul's BFR from Malachor temple.

If you're wondering how did I come to this ''underestimation'' conclusion, it's simply because of what Maul said to him before the duel ;

Maul : ''I will make this quick.''

Why would Maul say that ? This is an obvious clue for Maul's state of mind before the duel, he was underestimating Kanan heavily and he wanted to make this quick so he could continue to fight with Ahsoka and Vader whose are his peers. His mind was completely somewhere else, and he thought blind Kanan couldn't put up a resistance.

3- Maul get BFR'ed because of that stone statue.

Despite all these bad lucks, Kanan's amplification, Maul's state of mind, he still didn't get defeated, he just get BFR'ed by Kanan's amplification, Maul's cockiness and some nasty stone statue stumbled on to his left feet.

No Caption Provided

As you can see, Maul is still fine in here, look very closely at the next frame.

No Caption Provided

Maul's left feet stumbled on that stone statue,

No Caption Provided

This is why Maul fell, these 3 conditions are the reasons behind Maul's BFR from Malachor temple.

And still Maul survives this fall, which killed an Inquisitor Eighth Brother ;

No Caption Provided

''Maul has not been defeated. He pilots a TIE fighter away from Malachor with a menacing grin. ''

-http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/star-wars-rebels/twilight-of-the-apprentice-episode-gallery-2

It was only natural when you consider the plot power that Kanan had all the time in the Rebels, and he could even Force push and BFR Vader because of that Plot shield when Vader was trying to destroy them.

No Caption Provided

''Before Vader can destroy Kanan and Ezra, however, there's an explosion.''

--- http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/star-wars-rebels/the-siege-of-lothal-episode-gallery

So there were the two counter arguments against Maul's superiority over Ahsoka, and these were the answers.

Let's continue on Maul's portrayal in the Rebels ;

Maul destroys a group of Rebel squadron all by himself, like the one that Vader destroyed in the Rogue one.

No Caption Provided

''Coming up on the rendezvous point, Commander, but the transport's not responding. It looks like it was attacked.''

Ezra : ''There must have been one heck of a fight.''

Kanan : ''I can smell the carbon scoring.''

--- Rebels Season 3 Episode 03

And later, he deflects all Sabine's, Zeb's and Hera's blaster lasers when he turned upside down. It's impressive because Sabine and Zeb are quite capable shooters and Maul is deflecting the all when he was in a very bad condition.

No Caption Provided

As for the strength feats, there aren't very impressive but he is still decent, like throwing Kanan a few meters with one hand only ;

No Caption Provided

And pushing a possessed Kanan who has amplified strength and speed due to Nightsister magicks.

He pushes him to a large space, it gaved him enough space to talk back to Ezra. As for why I am thinking Kanan had an amplified strength, (remember the same magicks that amplified Savage Opress) it's just obvious when Sabine could move unusually after the possession ;

No Caption Provided

And Kanan was able to stagger and knock down Ezra twice times and easily;

No Caption Provided

One more time ;

No Caption Provided

Maul pushes this amplified Kanan in the duel and creates enough distance to talk back to Ezra without any trouble,

No Caption Provided

As I said, it's not a great strength feat, but not bad.

As for the speed, Maul moves fast enough to outrun both the possessed Kanan, and Ezra.

No Caption Provided

Yet, Sam Witwer, voice actor of Maul, states that Maul is past his prime and his glory days... It seems like TCW Maul > TPM Maul > SWR Maul for now.

''But he’s not ready to change his ways yet …''

Witwer: ''He has this ambition that still exists inside him and that ambition is eating him up –especially now that he’s past his prime and his glory years. Yeah, he’s a sadder character than we perhaps remember in Clone Wars.''

''Dave, you’ve had Ezra pulled between both the light and the dark side of the Force. Is Maul a cautionary tale for him? An example of what not to do?''

Filoni: ''This whole season has been about getting Ezra to kind of explore the dark side of the Force and be aware of its existence on a powerful level that maybe he didn’t understand before.''

---http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/24/darth-maul-returns-star-wars-rebels

TPM and TCW however, when his power was at his max.

''Darth Maul was a warrior in his prime, never to be any better, his powers at their apex. In addition, he was driven by his messianic hatred for and disdain of the Jedi Knights, the enemies of the Sith for millennia.''

--- The Phantom Menace Novelization

''But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him. Maul had grown more powerful since the last time he’d been in Sidious’s presence, before the Neimoidian invasion of Naboo had turned disastrous and Obi-Wan had bested him inside the Theed power core.''

''His hermitage on Lotho Minor, his lessons on Unbara, his restoration by Mother Talzin, and his training of Savage had all strengthened him, made him a more worthy vessel for the dark side to fill with its power. But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious.''

--- Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy

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#1 Posted by Hypnos0929 (4906 posts) - - Show Bio

Great job. To be honest I didn't even notice Maul tripped over the statue

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#2 Posted by thesithmaster (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

Good job. I liked this. I really think Maul will defeat Ben Kenobi. Maul's power has not decreased, IMO, while Kenobi's has. I think it's Ezra the one that kills Maul. Or... prepare for the shocker...

MAUL=SNOKE CONFIRMED!

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#3 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2077 posts) - - Show Bio

Nicely done. But I still believe that Maul and Kenobi are past their Prime by a good margin (for Kenobi it's mainly physicality and slightly skills).

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#4 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither are in their prime IMO.

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#6 Posted by Necromancer76 (1850 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to wait and see the episode when they fight, but my hypothesis is they stayed the same or gained power. Similar to Ahsoka, Sidious, etc.

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#7 Edited by Discipulus (1732 posts) - - Show Bio

That was a very interesting read. There were a few things from 'Twilight of the Apprentice' that I hadn't noticed even on a re-watch, andI never made note of the fact that Maul can be seen outrunning Ezra -- so I'm glad I read this! It's quite peculiar, though, how reference is made to Kenobi's age in the ANH novelisation, as he's only supposed to be 57 by this point (which shouldn't be much for a Jedi Master!).

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#8 Posted by MiracleComeBack (1797 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow nice

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#9 Posted by Xerolot (2724 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: Amazing work, as always. A lot of good arguments that show Maul is still in a good shape.

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#10 Posted by Wolfrazer (14450 posts) - - Show Bio

Fair.

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#11 Posted by ordeith (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

Very solid work.

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#12 Posted by Owie (6598 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice work.

I will point out that in the YA novel Ahsoka, it implies that Ahsoka could have beaten Maul in a duel after Clone Wars--granted much earlier than the point in time you're talking about. And I listened to the audio book, so I don't have the exact text, and it's possible that I misunderstood because it just keeps going and it was hard to rewind while I was busy. That's the last time I use an audio book, way too hard to be clear on feats! But anyway, I would agree that Ahsoka is not at the level of Maul in Rebels.

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#13 Edited by Erkan12 (5548 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76 said:

I have to wait and see the episode when they fight, but my hypothesis is they stayed the same or gained power. Similar to Ahsoka, Sidious, etc.

I think it's fair to think that they have become a little weaker, but they are still on the same level 8, just like Dooku was in PT.

@discipulus said:

That was a very interesting read. There were a few things from 'Twilight of the Apprentice' that I hadn't noticed even on a re-watch, andI never made note of the fact that Maul can be seen outrunning Ezra -- so I'm glad I read this! It's quite peculiar, though, how reference is made to Kenobi's age in the ANH novelisation, as he's only supposed to be 57 by this point (which shouldn't be much for a Jedi Master!).

Especially that illusion feat is also impressive, because Ezra is already a proficient telepath at this point.

@miraclecomeback said:

Wow nice

@wolfrazer said:

Fair.

@ordeith said:

Very solid work.

Thanks.

@owie said:

Nice work.

I will point out that in the YA novel Ahsoka, it implies that Ahsoka could have beaten Maul in a duel after Clone Wars--granted much earlier than the point in time you're talking about. And I listened to the audio book, so I don't have the exact text, and it's possible that I misunderstood because it just keeps going and it was hard to rewind while I was busy. That's the last time I use an audio book, way too hard to be clear on feats! But anyway, I would agree that Ahsoka is not at the level of Maul in Rebels.

Did you mean Ahsoka Novel ?

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#14 Posted by Owie (6598 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

@owie said:

Nice work.

I will point out that in the YA novel Ahsoka, it implies that Ahsoka could have beaten Maul in a duel after Clone Wars--granted much earlier than the point in time you're talking about. And I listened to the audio book, so I don't have the exact text, and it's possible that I misunderstood because it just keeps going and it was hard to rewind while I was busy. That's the last time I use an audio book, way too hard to be clear on feats! But anyway, I would agree that Ahsoka is not at the level of Maul in Rebels.

Did you mean Ahsoka Novel ?

Yeah. It's a "YA" novel meaning written for "young adults."

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#15 Posted by Erkan12 (5548 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Well, in Ahsoka novel she was running away from Maul at the beginning and she ambushed him with a Ray-shield and a group of clone troopers who were hiding. As you know, when you fell to the Ray-shield, you can't do anything just as we've seen from the RotS, It wasn't even a duel.

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#16 Posted by Owie (6598 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

@owie: Well, in Ahsoka novel she was running away from Maul at the beginning and she ambushed him with a Ray-shield and a group of clone troopers who were hiding. As you know, when you fell to the Ray-shield, you can't do anything just as we've seen from the RotS, It wasn't even a duel.

I think there was line in the middle of the book where she looks back on it, and it says something like she could have beaten him, but they were interrupted. I wish I had the text so I could double-check. To be clear, I don't believe she should be at his level, particularly at that point.

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#17 Edited by Erkan12 (5548 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie said:
@erkan12 said:

@owie: Well, in Ahsoka novel she was running away from Maul at the beginning and she ambushed him with a Ray-shield and a group of clone troopers who were hiding. As you know, when you fell to the Ray-shield, you can't do anything just as we've seen from the RotS, It wasn't even a duel.

I think there was line in the middle of the book where she looks back on it, and it says something like she could have beaten him, but they were interrupted. I wish I had the text so I could double-check. To be clear, I don't believe she should be at his level, particularly at that point.

This is the full passage. I don't see that kind of thing.

Mandalore burned.

Not all of it, of course, but enough that the smoke filled the air around her. Ahsoka Tano breathed it in. She knew what she had to do, but she wasn't sure it would work. Worse, she wasn't sure how long it would work, even if it did. But she was out of options, and this was the only chance she had left. She was there with an army and a mission, as she might have done when she was still Anakin Skywalker's Padawan. It probably would have gone better if Anakin were with her.

"Be careful, Ahsoka," he'd told her, before handing over her lightsabers and running off to save the Chancellor. "Maul is tricky. And he has no mercy in him at all."

"I remember," she'd replied, trying to scrape up some of the brashness that had earned her the nickname Snips the first time they'd met. She didn't think the effort was tremendously successful, but he smiled anyway.

"I know." He rolled his shoulders, already thinking of his own fight. "But you know how I worry."

"What could happen?" Acting more like her old self was easier the second time, and then she found that she was smiling, too.

Now, the weight of her lightsabers in her hands was reassuring, but she would have traded them both for Anakin's presence in a heartbeat.

She could see Maul, not far from her now. Smoke wreathed his black-and-red face, though it didn't seem to bother him. He'd already put aside his cloak; battle-readiness oozing from his stance. He was in one of the plazas that wasn't burning yet, pacing while he waited for her. If she hadn't known that his legs were artificial, she never would have guessed they weren't the limbs he'd been born with. The prosthetics didn't slow him down at all. She walked toward him, determined. After all, she knew something she was pretty sure he didn't.

"Where's your army, Lady Tano?" he called as soon as she was within earshot.

"Busy defeating yours," she replied, hoping it was true. She wasn't going to give him the pleasure of seeing how much his calling her Lady Tano hurt. She wasn't a commander anymore, even though the battalion still treated her with the same courtesy they always had, because of her reputation.

"It was so nice of your former masters to send you out alone and spare me the exertion of a proper fight," Maul said. "You're not even a real Jedi."

Malice dripped from his every word, and he bared his teeth at her. His was the kind of anger that Master Yoda warned the younglings about, the sort that ate a person whole and twisted every part of them until they were unrecognizable. Ahsoka shuddered to think what Maul must have suffered to become this way. Still, she was smart enough to use it to her benefit: she needed him angry enough to think he had the upper hand.

"It'll be a fair fight then," she retorted, looking him up and down. "You're only half a Sith."

That was rude for no reason, the type of thing that would've had Master Kenobi rolling his eyes, but Ahsoka couldn't bring herself to regret it. Taunting one's enemy was customary, and Ahsoka was going to use all the cards she was dealt, even if it wasn't polite. He was right, after all: she was no Jedi.

Maul was stalking sideways with a dark feline grace that was oddly hypnotic and twirling the hilt of the lightsaber in his hand. Ahsoka tightened her grip on her own lightsabers and then forced herself to relax. She needed him to come closer. It was a bit like meditation, this waiting. She knew it had worked against Maul before, on Naboo when Obi-Wan beat him the first time. She reached out to the Force and found it waiting for her, a comfort and a source of power. She opened her mind to it and listened with every part of her that could. Then she moved, mirroring Maul across the plaza and taking one step back for every step he took toward her.

"No Jedi, but still a coward," he said. "Or did Skywalker forget to teach you how to stand your ground before he threw you aside?"

"I left under my own power," she told him. In the moment, the words felt like the truth despite the pain that lay underneath them. She ignored the hurt and refocused on her sense of balance, on Maul.

"Of course. And I volunteered for that garbage pile, and those first monstrous legs," Maul said mockingly. She felt his rage swell within him, almost to the breaking point but not quite yet.

He activated the lightsaber and quickened his steps. It was easy for her to pretend he'd caught her off guard, to stumble backward, away from his vengeful charge.

"I'll bet you volunteered for this, too, Lady Tano," he crowed. That much was correct, but he could perceive only her weakness. His anger blinded him to all else. "One last attempt at glory to impress a master who has no further use for you."

"That's not true!" she shouted. Just a little farther now. He was almost ensnared.

He bore down on her, cruel laughter scraping out of his throat, and still she waited. Then, just before she was in his reach, she sprang the trap.

The familiar green energy sang as she activated her lightsabers and moved to engage, one last feint. Maul lunged forward and Ahsoka took a quick step back, drawing him past the point of no return. He swung down, directly at her head, and she responded with all her strength. Her weapons locked with his, holding him exactly where she wanted him to be.

"Now!" she commanded her unseen allies.

The response was fast, too fast for Maul's distracted defense. Ahsoka threw herself clear just in time.

The ray shield came to life, trapping her prey with his lightsaber still raised against her.

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#18 Posted by Owie (6598 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:
@owie said:
@erkan12 said:

@owie: Well, in Ahsoka novel she was running away from Maul at the beginning and she ambushed him with a Ray-shield and a group of clone troopers who were hiding. As you know, when you fell to the Ray-shield, you can't do anything just as we've seen from the RotS, It wasn't even a duel.

I think there was line in the middle of the book where she looks back on it, and it says something like she could have beaten him, but they were interrupted. I wish I had the text so I could double-check. To be clear, I don't believe she should be at his level, particularly at that point.

This is the full passage. I don't see that kind of thing.

Mandalore burned.

Not all of it, of course, but enough that the smoke filled the air around her. Ahsoka Tano breathed it in. She knew what she had to do, but she wasn't sure it would work. Worse, she wasn't sure how long it would work, even if it did. But she was out of options, and this was the only chance she had left. She was there with an army and a mission, as she might have done when she was still Anakin Skywalker's Padawan. It probably would have gone better if Anakin were with her.

"Be careful, Ahsoka," he'd told her, before handing over her lightsabers and running off to save the Chancellor. "Maul is tricky. And he has no mercy in him at all."

"I remember," she'd replied, trying to scrape up some of the brashness that had earned her the nickname Snips the first time they'd met. She didn't think the effort was tremendously successful, but he smiled anyway.

"I know." He rolled his shoulders, already thinking of his own fight. "But you know how I worry."

"What could happen?" Acting more like her old self was easier the second time, and then she found that she was smiling, too.

Now, the weight of her lightsabers in her hands was reassuring, but she would have traded them both for Anakin's presence in a heartbeat.

She could see Maul, not far from her now. Smoke wreathed his black-and-red face, though it didn't seem to bother him. He'd already put aside his cloak; battle-readiness oozing from his stance. He was in one of the plazas that wasn't burning yet, pacing while he waited for her. If she hadn't known that his legs were artificial, she never would have guessed they weren't the limbs he'd been born with. The prosthetics didn't slow him down at all. She walked toward him, determined. After all, she knew something she was pretty sure he didn't.

"Where's your army, Lady Tano?" he called as soon as she was within earshot.

"Busy defeating yours," she replied, hoping it was true. She wasn't going to give him the pleasure of seeing how much his calling her Lady Tano hurt. She wasn't a commander anymore, even though the battalion still treated her with the same courtesy they always had, because of her reputation.

"It was so nice of your former masters to send you out alone and spare me the exertion of a proper fight," Maul said. "You're not even a real Jedi."

Malice dripped from his every word, and he bared his teeth at her. His was the kind of anger that Master Yoda warned the younglings about, the sort that ate a person whole and twisted every part of them until they were unrecognizable. Ahsoka shuddered to think what Maul must have suffered to become this way. Still, she was smart enough to use it to her benefit: she needed him angry enough to think he had the upper hand.

"It'll be a fair fight then," she retorted, looking him up and down. "You're only half a Sith."

That was rude for no reason, the type of thing that would've had Master Kenobi rolling his eyes, but Ahsoka couldn't bring herself to regret it. Taunting one's enemy was customary, and Ahsoka was going to use all the cards she was dealt, even if it wasn't polite. He was right, after all: she was no Jedi.

Maul was stalking sideways with a dark feline grace that was oddly hypnotic and twirling the hilt of the lightsaber in his hand. Ahsoka tightened her grip on her own lightsabers and then forced herself to relax. She needed him to come closer. It was a bit like meditation, this waiting. She knew it had worked against Maul before, on Naboo when Obi-Wan beat him the first time. She reached out to the Force and found it waiting for her, a comfort and a source of power. She opened her mind to it and listened with every part of her that could. Then she moved, mirroring Maul across the plaza and taking one step back for every step he took toward her.

"No Jedi, but still a coward," he said. "Or did Skywalker forget to teach you how to stand your ground before he threw you aside?"

"I left under my own power," she told him. In the moment, the words felt like the truth despite the pain that lay underneath them. She ignored the hurt and refocused on her sense of balance, on Maul.

"Of course. And I volunteered for that garbage pile, and those first monstrous legs," Maul said mockingly. She felt his rage swell within him, almost to the breaking point but not quite yet.

He activated the lightsaber and quickened his steps. It was easy for her to pretend he'd caught her off guard, to stumble backward, away from his vengeful charge.

"I'll bet you volunteered for this, too, Lady Tano," he crowed. That much was correct, but he could perceive only her weakness. His anger blinded him to all else. "One last attempt at glory to impress a master who has no further use for you."

"That's not true!" she shouted. Just a little farther now. He was almost ensnared.

He bore down on her, cruel laughter scraping out of his throat, and still she waited. Then, just before she was in his reach, she sprang the trap.

The familiar green energy sang as she activated her lightsabers and moved to engage, one last feint. Maul lunged forward and Ahsoka took a quick step back, drawing him past the point of no return. He swung down, directly at her head, and she responded with all her strength. Her weapons locked with his, holding him exactly where she wanted him to be.

"Now!" she commanded her unseen allies.

The response was fast, too fast for Maul's distracted defense. Ahsoka threw herself clear just in time.

The ray shield came to life, trapping her prey with his lightsaber still raised against her.

Is that the original passage in the beginning, or when they revisit it in the middle of the book?

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#19 Posted by Erkan12 (5548 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie said:
@erkan12 said:
@owie said:
@erkan12 said:

@owie: Well, in Ahsoka novel she was running away from Maul at the beginning and she ambushed him with a Ray-shield and a group of clone troopers who were hiding. As you know, when you fell to the Ray-shield, you can't do anything just as we've seen from the RotS, It wasn't even a duel.

I think there was line in the middle of the book where she looks back on it, and it says something like she could have beaten him, but they were interrupted. I wish I had the text so I could double-check. To be clear, I don't believe she should be at his level, particularly at that point.

This is the full passage. I don't see that kind of thing.

Mandalore burned.

Not all of it, of course, but enough that the smoke filled the air around her. Ahsoka Tano breathed it in. She knew what she had to do, but she wasn't sure it would work. Worse, she wasn't sure how long it would work, even if it did. But she was out of options, and this was the only chance she had left. She was there with an army and a mission, as she might have done when she was still Anakin Skywalker's Padawan. It probably would have gone better if Anakin were with her.

"Be careful, Ahsoka," he'd told her, before handing over her lightsabers and running off to save the Chancellor. "Maul is tricky. And he has no mercy in him at all."

"I remember," she'd replied, trying to scrape up some of the brashness that had earned her the nickname Snips the first time they'd met. She didn't think the effort was tremendously successful, but he smiled anyway.

"I know." He rolled his shoulders, already thinking of his own fight. "But you know how I worry."

"What could happen?" Acting more like her old self was easier the second time, and then she found that she was smiling, too.

Now, the weight of her lightsabers in her hands was reassuring, but she would have traded them both for Anakin's presence in a heartbeat.

She could see Maul, not far from her now. Smoke wreathed his black-and-red face, though it didn't seem to bother him. He'd already put aside his cloak; battle-readiness oozing from his stance. He was in one of the plazas that wasn't burning yet, pacing while he waited for her. If she hadn't known that his legs were artificial, she never would have guessed they weren't the limbs he'd been born with. The prosthetics didn't slow him down at all. She walked toward him, determined. After all, she knew something she was pretty sure he didn't.

"Where's your army, Lady Tano?" he called as soon as she was within earshot.

"Busy defeating yours," she replied, hoping it was true. She wasn't going to give him the pleasure of seeing how much his calling her Lady Tano hurt. She wasn't a commander anymore, even though the battalion still treated her with the same courtesy they always had, because of her reputation.

"It was so nice of your former masters to send you out alone and spare me the exertion of a proper fight," Maul said. "You're not even a real Jedi."

Malice dripped from his every word, and he bared his teeth at her. His was the kind of anger that Master Yoda warned the younglings about, the sort that ate a person whole and twisted every part of them until they were unrecognizable. Ahsoka shuddered to think what Maul must have suffered to become this way. Still, she was smart enough to use it to her benefit: she needed him angry enough to think he had the upper hand.

"It'll be a fair fight then," she retorted, looking him up and down. "You're only half a Sith."

That was rude for no reason, the type of thing that would've had Master Kenobi rolling his eyes, but Ahsoka couldn't bring herself to regret it. Taunting one's enemy was customary, and Ahsoka was going to use all the cards she was dealt, even if it wasn't polite. He was right, after all: she was no Jedi.

Maul was stalking sideways with a dark feline grace that was oddly hypnotic and twirling the hilt of the lightsaber in his hand. Ahsoka tightened her grip on her own lightsabers and then forced herself to relax. She needed him to come closer. It was a bit like meditation, this waiting. She knew it had worked against Maul before, on Naboo when Obi-Wan beat him the first time. She reached out to the Force and found it waiting for her, a comfort and a source of power. She opened her mind to it and listened with every part of her that could. Then she moved, mirroring Maul across the plaza and taking one step back for every step he took toward her.

"No Jedi, but still a coward," he said. "Or did Skywalker forget to teach you how to stand your ground before he threw you aside?"

"I left under my own power," she told him. In the moment, the words felt like the truth despite the pain that lay underneath them. She ignored the hurt and refocused on her sense of balance, on Maul.

"Of course. And I volunteered for that garbage pile, and those first monstrous legs," Maul said mockingly. She felt his rage swell within him, almost to the breaking point but not quite yet.

He activated the lightsaber and quickened his steps. It was easy for her to pretend he'd caught her off guard, to stumble backward, away from his vengeful charge.

"I'll bet you volunteered for this, too, Lady Tano," he crowed. That much was correct, but he could perceive only her weakness. His anger blinded him to all else. "One last attempt at glory to impress a master who has no further use for you."

"That's not true!" she shouted. Just a little farther now. He was almost ensnared.

He bore down on her, cruel laughter scraping out of his throat, and still she waited. Then, just before she was in his reach, she sprang the trap.

The familiar green energy sang as she activated her lightsabers and moved to engage, one last feint. Maul lunged forward and Ahsoka took a quick step back, drawing him past the point of no return. He swung down, directly at her head, and she responded with all her strength. Her weapons locked with his, holding him exactly where she wanted him to be.

"Now!" she commanded her unseen allies.

The response was fast, too fast for Maul's distracted defense. Ahsoka threw herself clear just in time.

The ray shield came to life, trapping her prey with his lightsaber still raised against her.

Is that the original passage in the beginning, or when they revisit it in the middle of the book?

It says she could kill him when they captured him via ray-shield in another quote but she had to save Rex.

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#20 Posted by Owie (6598 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:
@owie said:
@erkan12 said:
@owie said:
@erkan12 said:

@owie: Well, in Ahsoka novel she was running away from Maul at the beginning and she ambushed him with a Ray-shield and a group of clone troopers who were hiding. As you know, when you fell to the Ray-shield, you can't do anything just as we've seen from the RotS, It wasn't even a duel.

I think there was line in the middle of the book where she looks back on it, and it says something like she could have beaten him, but they were interrupted. I wish I had the text so I could double-check. To be clear, I don't believe she should be at his level, particularly at that point.

This is the full passage. I don't see that kind of thing.

Mandalore burned.

Not all of it, of course, but enough that the smoke filled the air around her. Ahsoka Tano breathed it in. She knew what she had to do, but she wasn't sure it would work. Worse, she wasn't sure how long it would work, even if it did. But she was out of options, and this was the only chance she had left. She was there with an army and a mission, as she might have done when she was still Anakin Skywalker's Padawan. It probably would have gone better if Anakin were with her.

"Be careful, Ahsoka," he'd told her, before handing over her lightsabers and running off to save the Chancellor. "Maul is tricky. And he has no mercy in him at all."

"I remember," she'd replied, trying to scrape up some of the brashness that had earned her the nickname Snips the first time they'd met. She didn't think the effort was tremendously successful, but he smiled anyway.

"I know." He rolled his shoulders, already thinking of his own fight. "But you know how I worry."

"What could happen?" Acting more like her old self was easier the second time, and then she found that she was smiling, too.

Now, the weight of her lightsabers in her hands was reassuring, but she would have traded them both for Anakin's presence in a heartbeat.

She could see Maul, not far from her now. Smoke wreathed his black-and-red face, though it didn't seem to bother him. He'd already put aside his cloak; battle-readiness oozing from his stance. He was in one of the plazas that wasn't burning yet, pacing while he waited for her. If she hadn't known that his legs were artificial, she never would have guessed they weren't the limbs he'd been born with. The prosthetics didn't slow him down at all. She walked toward him, determined. After all, she knew something she was pretty sure he didn't.

"Where's your army, Lady Tano?" he called as soon as she was within earshot.

"Busy defeating yours," she replied, hoping it was true. She wasn't going to give him the pleasure of seeing how much his calling her Lady Tano hurt. She wasn't a commander anymore, even though the battalion still treated her with the same courtesy they always had, because of her reputation.

"It was so nice of your former masters to send you out alone and spare me the exertion of a proper fight," Maul said. "You're not even a real Jedi."

Malice dripped from his every word, and he bared his teeth at her. His was the kind of anger that Master Yoda warned the younglings about, the sort that ate a person whole and twisted every part of them until they were unrecognizable. Ahsoka shuddered to think what Maul must have suffered to become this way. Still, she was smart enough to use it to her benefit: she needed him angry enough to think he had the upper hand.

"It'll be a fair fight then," she retorted, looking him up and down. "You're only half a Sith."

That was rude for no reason, the type of thing that would've had Master Kenobi rolling his eyes, but Ahsoka couldn't bring herself to regret it. Taunting one's enemy was customary, and Ahsoka was going to use all the cards she was dealt, even if it wasn't polite. He was right, after all: she was no Jedi.

Maul was stalking sideways with a dark feline grace that was oddly hypnotic and twirling the hilt of the lightsaber in his hand. Ahsoka tightened her grip on her own lightsabers and then forced herself to relax. She needed him to come closer. It was a bit like meditation, this waiting. She knew it had worked against Maul before, on Naboo when Obi-Wan beat him the first time. She reached out to the Force and found it waiting for her, a comfort and a source of power. She opened her mind to it and listened with every part of her that could. Then she moved, mirroring Maul across the plaza and taking one step back for every step he took toward her.

"No Jedi, but still a coward," he said. "Or did Skywalker forget to teach you how to stand your ground before he threw you aside?"

"I left under my own power," she told him. In the moment, the words felt like the truth despite the pain that lay underneath them. She ignored the hurt and refocused on her sense of balance, on Maul.

"Of course. And I volunteered for that garbage pile, and those first monstrous legs," Maul said mockingly. She felt his rage swell within him, almost to the breaking point but not quite yet.

He activated the lightsaber and quickened his steps. It was easy for her to pretend he'd caught her off guard, to stumble backward, away from his vengeful charge.

"I'll bet you volunteered for this, too, Lady Tano," he crowed. That much was correct, but he could perceive only her weakness. His anger blinded him to all else. "One last attempt at glory to impress a master who has no further use for you."

"That's not true!" she shouted. Just a little farther now. He was almost ensnared.

He bore down on her, cruel laughter scraping out of his throat, and still she waited. Then, just before she was in his reach, she sprang the trap.

The familiar green energy sang as she activated her lightsabers and moved to engage, one last feint. Maul lunged forward and Ahsoka took a quick step back, drawing him past the point of no return. He swung down, directly at her head, and she responded with all her strength. Her weapons locked with his, holding him exactly where she wanted him to be.

"Now!" she commanded her unseen allies.

The response was fast, too fast for Maul's distracted defense. Ahsoka threw herself clear just in time.

The ray shield came to life, trapping her prey with his lightsaber still raised against her.

Is that the original passage in the beginning, or when they revisit it in the middle of the book?

It says she could kill him when they captured him via ray-shield in another quote but she had to save Rex.

OK, that's the part I was talking about then. I need to get the actual book, its just too hard to follow details of fights by listening.

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#21 Posted by AlexTheBoss (9084 posts) - - Show Bio

After this recent episode I'm going to say Obi-wan grew in power, while Maul kind of stagnated and possibly got weaker.

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#22 Posted by Owie (6598 posts) - - Show Bio

After this recent episode I'm going to say Obi-wan grew in power, while Maul kind of stagnated and possibly got weaker.

It could be. It did seem that Maul was weakened by his time in the desert, maybe he just wasn't at his best due to that.

What I'm interested in is, what does this fight tell us about Obi-Wan's fight with Vader in New Hope? If Obi-Wan can one-shot Maul, could he have done the same to Vader if he had wished to? I suspect part of the answer to this question lies in the point of this thread, which is to say, was Maul better or worse than he used to be? How would he have compare to the contemporaneous Vader?

Both of them had what I'd consider low-ish level fights against Ahsoka, and I do tend to see Maul's fights against the Inquisitors as being pretty solid. I think if anything, he was mentally weaker than he used to be, and that was his weakness against Kenobi.

Also--anyone have any thoughts on Maul's last words? When he asked about the Chosen One, was he talking about Luke instead of Anakin? Did he see Luke as a chance to be avenged against the Empire?

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#23 Edited by AlexTheBoss (9084 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Well supposedly the fight was quick because they wanted it to be like a samurai fight and more realistic as most sword fights end in a few blows. They also wanted to show how Kenobi knew Maul's fighting style really well and how they were planning the fight in their heads before it even started. Kenobi also took on Qui-gon's stance and so Maul tried to use the same move he used to kill Qui-gon and Kenobi saw it coming. So powerwise Ben isn't really that far above Maul.

And yes they were talking about Luke.

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#24 Edited by Erkan12 (5548 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:

After this recent episode I'm going to say Obi-wan grew in power, while Maul kind of stagnated and possibly got weaker.

Filoni pretty much confirmed that ;

Dave Filoni : “I felt strongly Obi-Wan, if he could help it, would really rather not kill Darth Maul. Obi-Wan is at a point, in my mind, where he’s become rather enlightened. He’s been in the desert discovering who he is, really evolving as a character. He’s not that young brash kid that went into a fight with Maul out of anger for the fact his master was killed. It can’t be that same situation this is so many years later. Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. That’s where his life went wrong. He can’t let it go.

Filoni hopes the duel, and the moments after, are the perfect representation of one of the most important conflicts in all of Star Wars.

“It really is to express the difference between the Jedi and the Sith. Which is the Jedi become selfless and the Sith remain selfish. When pressed, because Obi-Wan is protecting someone else in the end, he does fight. But because he is so true and knows who he is in that moment, you can’t defeat that. So Obi-Wan is going to strike down Maul because Maul is such a broken and lost person, which I think is why in the end you see Maul being cradled by Obi-Wan.''

- http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-producer-of-star-wars-rebels-on-tonights-incredible-1793376931

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#25 Posted by AlexTheBoss (9084 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: I do really think that they had the right idea when doing this and represented the characters well. Still mad about the length of the duel, and I probably will be for a while, lol. Also Maul's ending story should of been a season finally imo. Maul was barely in his own final episode, lol.

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#26 Posted by thesithmaster (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

Umm... good thread, surprised it actually is wrong. Ben Kenobi>ROTS Kenobi.

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#27 Posted by Frankenmidget (1228 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice thread.

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#28 Posted by RedHeathen (650 posts) - - Show Bio

Great job, but it's difficult to understand TCW Maul > TPM Maul, but then I have this idea of Maul from the EU: an apprentice who could almost defeat his master, the most powerful Sith of all time.

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#29 Posted by Foxdie (146 posts) - - Show Bio

This shouldn't be a question. Lets just say this, he most certainly didn't get stronger. He also didn't stay the same strength, if he was allowed to live he would have became to powerful. His power of the force would be around Mother Talzins level which rivals Sidious's... meaning he would have the 3rd most powerful Sith lightning, and his skills with the Lightsaber would be up there with Sidious. He would have literally became Sidious rival forreal, which would have conflicted with the starwars lore. That's why Sidious said he had to kill him quickly and haved him hunted down. Hunt down Mother Talzin, because if she trained him.. He would have been a force to be reckoned with. Dooku reached his full potential that's why Sidious had no more use for him, Mauls potential was near his that's why he didn't want tp get rid of him and when he did he knew he had to have him killed. Mauls prowers rivaled Dooku who was trained as a Sith Lord.

Dooku reached his full potential.. yet Maul and Vader couldn't reach there's. That's the only reason Dooku was in there category.

Maul would have became a rival to Sidious, with a lightsaber and the force.. slightly weaker.. but still very very dangerous to the point that he could be killed by him. The same way Yoda could have.

Anakin would have flat out surpassed Sidious in his prime.

And Starkiller had he reached his Full potential would have been Sidious equal. He would have been another Sidious, on the different side of the spectrum.

That is why Sidious hindered these characters potential. Everyone besides Vader, he kind of did it to himself.

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