Spoiler LOADED Force Awakens thoughts

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#1 Posted by mogo1 (262 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't seen a topic for this type of discussion yet so my bad if it's already up

I plan on mentioning many what can be called spoilers so don't read if u haven't seen

OK first I loved the movie. Acting was fantastic and it had lots of humor. I did go to a packed house theater so that always helps

I had the two main surprises spoiled for me so I was pretty mad about that. Kylo rens father and hans death. I think the death was good and movies were main characters die can add lots of feels if done correctly, and i feel like this was. Now some other things

I was glad they covered that Finn was not a clone because I was confused as heck on what he was supposed to be. I thought he did great as a character though. I wish he would of said something like "I've always been a bad shot" while shooting, sense troopers can't hit anything

I'm very intrigued with Snoke. I need to know more about him, non spoiler though

This was one of my biggest complaints, the silver storm tropper was a total punk. She had no scene that made her look strong, just a cool walk. I wanted her to be a BA, but the dude that fought Finn with that spinning weapon was ten times as cool as silver storm

I thought Kylo was amazing. The actor was great and his voice was amazing for me. I was bummed about another all black masked bad guy but i get it now. He wanted to be more like his grandpa. He did seem to suck at being a sith though. He should of wiped Finn of the map in two moves, that wouldn't of been very interesting in the movie though so i get it.

I would of liked to seen more interaction between leia and chewie after the death though

Rey also did great. Get character was very good good and made to seen strong. They haven't straight out and said it but her parents have to be luc or leia

So what were your likes or dislikes

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#2 Posted by RIKR2 (21480 posts) - - Show Bio

I love the movie!!! The only part I dint like was how easy they beat Kylo in the final battle (I don’t care he was hurt) and like u said Captain Phasma (the silver storm tropper) was useless in this movie.

The new character Rey and Finn were GREAT!!!!! And the old character were awesome also without stealing the spotlight( I was a afraid of that)

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#3 Posted by mogo1 (262 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikr2: ya kylo seems kind of week. A storm trooper was able to hold his own against him. I don't recall how long Luke has been missing aka Ben was turned to the dark side

Seems like Luke would of trained him from birth so he should be pretty powerful but guess not. I guess the next movies will give him time to grow

And the death star thing seemed a little weird. They steal an entire sun for presumably one shot? That's sort of overkill. The original death was smaller and could do nearly the same thing, without eating a sun.

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#4 Posted by Abishai100 (1744 posts) - - Show Bio

Generations Goodies

Rey surprisingly made this film great.

The 9 films in all are very sequential. Episodes I-III present the Clone Wars and the fall of Anakin Skywalker and the rise of the Sith and Darth Vader. Episodes IV-VI are all about the Jedi rebellion and the rise of Luke Skywalker and the potential redemption of Anakin. These next three, starting with Episode VII, are about the post-Luke generation and the management of the universe by the Jedi as lingering Sith continue to haunt.

If you notice, the first film in each of the 3 segments (The Phantom Menace, A New Hope, The Force Awakens) features a character that infuses general hope about Jedi powers and is dressed in a sand-colored rugged outfit (not a coincidence).

Rey will probably have a major role in the upcoming films and perhaps be revealed to be close to Luke somehow; I haven't read the stories, and I hope Rey will have the chance to redeem Kylo Ren, the murderous son of Han Solo and minion of the First Order.

I think The Force Awakens is in many ways superior to The Phantom Menace and A New Hope. The atmospherics are deep, and the characters are well-developed.

Most of all, I was impressed by the introduction of the diabolical Kylo Ren, a Sith-oriented minion who hints at the lingering power of darkness.

Kylo Ren

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#5 Edited by jayc1324 (26422 posts) - - Show Bio

Kylo lost all his cool points when a man who barely even touched a lightsaber before cut him with a lightsaber. He's strong with the force but his saber skills are trash. Taking off his mask was also kind of disappointing. They made it seem like it was gonna be some cool moment but he just looks like a regular guy.

Also a bit disappointed that there was no real ending. Yeah they destroyed the planet but considering all it did was destroy a couple of random planets it didn't feel like a climax

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#6 Posted by mogo1 (262 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: yeah the light saber battle was weird too. Even if Finn trained his whole life with multiple types of weapons he still shouldn't of barely touched kylo. But my thought on that is kylo was just playing with him being cocky because as soon as he got hit he disarmed Finn in one maneuver

Rey obviously trained with a bow weapon (slighyly ) so I'm hoping she picks up a double light saber at some point

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#7 Posted by kgb725 (18732 posts) - - Show Bio

Finn should use a light Saber

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#8 Posted by Kundelar (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: I think the lack of coolness to Kylo Ren's taking off the mask was intentional. I believe Kylo is a character who really wants to be an evil badass but he actually isn't yet, so it showed "oh, this guy is kind of not that tough looking". I, like you, was originally disappointed until I carried through the rest of the movie and saw his character unfold.

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#9 Posted by kgb725 (18732 posts) - - Show Bio

@bannyhaha: When he rebels against snoke he will be redeemed fully

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5a4e0e8ea3dfb (796 posts) - - Show Bio

first off I enjoyed this movie. It was definitely a redemption of the franchise after the prequel films. The 3 big highlights:

-Rey being the one with the Force vice Finn. yes, we all kind of guessed she would have a connection to Han/Leia or Luke but I applaud Abrams for having the trailers focus the lightsaber aspect on Finn vice Rey so we could have that nice twist.

- Fun and humor. at times maybe a bit too much slapstick given the overall plot but it was better to see too much than to start this trilogy off with the depressing mood the prequels brought.

- Finn and Rey's connection. A nice middle ground here between what Luke and Leia started at with and Han and Leia eventually had in their time as its far more immediate and, I'd say, a bit more heartfelt despite its quickness. We didn't need to see them step around each other but at the same time it didn't devolve into a love story (a huge problem for the prequels).

- the crossguard lightsaber....sorry, I loved it, including the true use of the hilt blades which make so much sense when seen in action and visually indicate that desire to win, to prevail, to overcome his opponent that Kylo is trying to master.

It suffered though, in my opinion, in 3 big ways:

- too many characters. Captain Plasma could have, should have, been awesome and I'm really hoping she has a comeback in the next film just as Kylo will be coming back with a vengeance. Poe as well suffers because of this, but really because of his near identical take to Han. It will be interesting to see how he grows in the next film and particularly his friendship with Finn. His actions and overall use to the Resistance felt a lot more like Kyle Katarn so it'd be nice to see him go down a similar path.

- too much re-used from A New Hope. this seems to be Abrams great weakness in getting to helm this and the last two Star Treks...he's too concerned with past homage to go the proper next step. The biggest piece for this film being the Starkiller, which is just an absurd idea. But more than that is the idea that the Republic....WHICH HAS A FREAKIN FLEET....would be doing nothing against the First Order and let some ragtag resistance team do all their fighting for them. This is where the new films needed to take more from the EU stories and mold them into a new trilogy. This film had the perfect opportunity to use Thrawn or, at least, the idea of a Confederation that looks to impose order out of the chaos that the Empire's collapse left. That's what was missing here, the whole 30 years of what one would correctly assume would be a chaotic time as thousands of systems fought each other for power and control of what the Empire no longer had, as well as old Empire remnants. Had they used a concept like the Confederation and set up the premise that it was the Republic vs the Confederation it would have been a great deal more plausible to why the Starkiller was built as a means to break the stalemate of each side, giving this film more of a Cold War feel and leading into the next film that each side would be strategically weakened....the Republic for having lost a Fleet and the Confederation for losing their big gun.

- Kylo/Ben's age? how old exactly is Kylo if he was the one that slaughtered everyone? it stands to reason that Rey would have been left on Jakku after the massacre but as that was probably about 20 years ago are we really looking at a 10-15 year old taking out all of Luke's apprentices? Even with help? That seems extremely far-fetched and more likely he gave up the location of the training site to Snoke who then led the massacre....possibly how he got his scars deformity in trying to take down Luke during the battle.

Very minor thoughts/issues:

- wish they had had Luke "calling" to Rey throughout the film, being this slight whisper of a voice that would tell her to run, alert her to danger, speak the means to her of force persuading the guard, encouraging her when Kylo had her at the edge of the cliff. That would have been great callbacks to A New Hope to hear a disembodied "the force can have a strong influence on the weak minded" and "a Jedi feels the Force flowing through him/her".

- I feel like the end shouldn't have been Rey and Luke meeting given the point of just how far Luke had traveled being central to the movie. Like some of the adventures to the Unknown Regions in the EU books, it should have taken weeks or months for the Millenium Falcon to get there and instead of meeting face to face it could have ended with a conversation through the Force similar to how Luke and Vader spoke to each other at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. Think this would have been a lot more meaningful, particularly if Luke actually made some statement along the lines of waiting for Rey or being excited for her arrival, rather than starring at her with concern like he did.

Overall:

A good start to the new trilogy and I'm interested in how things will develop with these characters. Really hoping for a timeline gap like New Hope and Empire Strikes Back did so that we can come into the Luke/Rey scenes with Rey already possessing skill and training as a Jedi rather than going from scratch like they did with Luke and Yoda. The gap would also allow Finn and Poe to establish their partnership in support of the Resistance and we can see where each of them ends up at in the overall rank structure. With luck we'll see more of Poe out of the cockpit and taking a frontline approach to the fight, again similar to a Kyle Katarn-style character than a straight pilot. My only lingering concern is where they take the First Order from here as we got so much of a copy of A New Hope that with luck we won't get something copying Empire Strikes Back to the same degree. It would seem far more effective to open up the war between the Republic and First Order to the point of battles equaling what we got from the Clone War series and Episode III. That way the shift of the second act isn't in the Resistance being hunted like the Rebels were at Hoth, but the true power and might of the First Order being unleashed galaxy-wide. As all that chaos looms the Resistance can then be a focused, special forces style aspect of the overall war effort with their direct counterparts being the Knights of Ren, who take center stage in leading the war effort much like the Jedi did during the Clone Wars.

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#11 Posted by kgb725 (18732 posts) - - Show Bio

@ltbrd: Could Luke actually whisper to her through the force like that ?

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5a4e0e8ea3dfb (796 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: I could see him not rebelling against Snoke though. Unlike Anakin he didn't become an apprentice out of necessity but through belief, even if that belief is a lie by Snoke to get his loyalty. His belief could sustain him through a possible revelation of Snoke's true motives, if the films even go in that direction.

Maybe its because they already dispatched Han and so are clearly okay with not pulling any punches but I could see Episode 8 ending with the mutual destruction of Luke and Snoke, basically eliminating the final members of the old ways of the Jedi and Sith; paving the way for a final confrontation between Rey and Kylo to see which teaching will lead the universe going forward.

Cause Kylo isn't really a Sith in the sense that he owes complete allegiance to the proverbial "dark side of the Force" nor is Rey truly a Jedi in the traditional sense and sticks strictly to the "light side of the Force" (heck, neither is Luke really as he Force Choked a guard in Episode 6 and his overall actions post-Endor are more akin to a Grey Jedi, which is another use of the EU canon without dipping into EU stories). They are really more opposite on how to use the Force. For Kylo the Force is a means to power and control, establishing Order through dominance. For Rey, following her training, the Force is a means to protect and shield and while that sounds like the traditional Jedi I wouldn't put it past the next 2 films to let Rey show her emotions and use abilities more akin to the dark side (like Force Choke) much as Luke did but still be on the side of good. That conflict of ideology could really drive Episode 9 to its ultimate conclusion, whether that be Kylo's death at Rey's hands (ala Jacen Solo's at the hands of Jaina Solo's) not being as relevant to the story because I don't think Kylo needs to be redeemed for Rey's ideology to be the tennant going forward for Force sensitives.

But just a thought.....it would certainly make for a significant ending to Episode 8 if Luke was to bite it and an interesting Episode 9 if Kylo went bat-shit crazy over Snoke's death and what he'd do to the universe as a result.

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#13 Posted by mogo1 (262 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel phasma definitely got a bad rap. I knew a female played the character and was excited to see her as a boss, and she looked awesome

But she ended up being a pushover that really led to the destruction of the star killer

I'm excited for the extra media that will fill in The 30 yr gap between movies too

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#14 Posted by jayc1324 (26422 posts) - - Show Bio

@bannyhaha: Good point, it seems like he's not supposed to be a truly great villain like Vader yet, he's still developing his powers and his "evilness"

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5a4e0e8ea3dfb (796 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: well Vader did to Luke at the end of Empire Strikes Back, though the distance was much shorter. so it is possible and given the span would be a subtle way to showcase the power Luke now has in the Force.

after posting, though, I was thinking how much better it could have been to have her mother, as a force ghost, doing the whispering instead. that could have been an interesting way to incorporate Mara Jade without needing a full time actress (and tie in what looks like a grave headstone that Luke is standing in front of at the end of the film) and form a sort of family dynamic for Rey in that her mother was her guide for years and now her father is her teacher.

maybe that would be a bit too much for casual fans though

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#16 Posted by r2datu (1232 posts) - - Show Bio

@mogo1 said:

@jayc1324: yeah the light saber battle was weird too. Even if Finn trained his whole life with multiple types of weapons he still shouldn't of barely touched kylo. But my thought on that is kylo was just playing with him being cocky because as soon as he got hit he disarmed Finn in one maneuver

Rey obviously trained with a bow weapon (slighyly ) so I'm hoping she picks up a double light saber at some point

Keep in mind that Kylo was shot in the gut by a freakin' Bowcaster. They hyped the gun up the entire movie as being this destructive force, rag dolling everything and everyone it hit. They basically treated the Bowcaster like it was a miniature cannon.

After being hit by the Bowcaster, Kylo shouldn't have even been alive, let alone standing AND fighting.

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#17 Edited by comicdebater (12 posts) - - Show Bio

The Force Awakens is a lot like the plot of Episode 4, so I have a feeling Episode 8 will be like the plot of Episode 5, and Episode 9 just like the plot of Episode 6 (Just my ideas). The movie was great, though I didn't see Han dying coming, until he went onto that bridge. I was also quite surprised that Rey ended up being a jedi. My idea is she is either Luke's son, or Han's and that is how she can use the force (Leia is related to Luke). I don't know why they would end up abandoning her. I feel as if though in these movies Kylo Ren will end up being the "darth vader" in Episode 9 as Darth Vader was in Episode 6. If you can recall he did say he could sometimes feel the light in him (if I am remembering correctly). If Rey and Kylo Ren are siblings, as many have hypothesized that could explain how Rey could use the force. This movie was definitely a setup for the next movie, but it was great. I also though Kylo Ren would have been cooler, but going back to what @jayc1324 said, Kylo Ren did lose his cool points. I really think they didn't include Phasma enough, and I personally thought she was incredibly cool.

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#18 Posted by mogo1 (262 posts) - - Show Bio

@r2datu: good point. I didn't connect those plot points.

I pretty much blame phasma for the destruction of the star killer. If she would of fought to the death then this would be a short trilogy.

She has a lot of redeeming to do if she is in the next movie

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#19 Posted by deactivated-5a4e0e8ea3dfb (796 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdebater: I think if she was Han and Leia's daughter they would have told her given how big a deal they made regarding Kylo. That's just not a secret I think will cause any kind of twist in Episode 8 or 9.

I've been thinking through a scenario where she is a child of either Palpatine or Anakin just before their respective deaths. It would be an extremely weird way to bring about a twist but Palpatine was always looking for a replacement to Anakin given he would never reach his full Force potential after his defeat by Obi-Wan and requiring his life support suit. Star Wars: Rebels has established the Inquisitorius and Force users trained by Vader. One user we haven't been introduced to yet could have been Mara Jade. Palpatine used her to birth a child of Anakin, thus creating another Skywalker and a powerful Force user he could guide from birth to be his successor. Mara Jade ends up following Luke instead (and possibly loving him thus the grave on at the Jedi Temple) but prior to that fears Snoke will find her and Rey and complete Palpatine's plan. So she leaves her on Jakku (plus, doesn't the back of the ship leaving in Rey's flashback look a bit like the Jade Fire??)

Thus Rey is actually the half-sister of Luke and Leia and a Skywalker herself.....opening the possibility for the Skywalker line to continue past Episode 9 since Han and Leia have no other children and it doesn't look, at this point, like Luke does either. Also this saves us all from wondering why Luke wouldn't have just taken Rey with him to the Jedi Temple. Its not like his own past with Obi-Wan given Luke had gone to an actual family and was watched over the whole time by Obi-Wan. This is just pure child neglect and not something I think the writers could effectively pull off explaining. Even if she was another child of Han and Leia it wouldn't make any sense cause you'd figure they'd at least have left someone with her as a pseudo-guardian, if at least from a distance, which the little cult guys Poe meets up with don't seem to have been doing.

But that's in the far right field of theories. The more plausible idea is that Luke didn't know he had a daughter and Rey's mother knew Snoke and the First Order would come looking for her.

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#20 Posted by goonage (2085 posts) - - Show Bio

I was pretty disappointed by Phasma. All that build up and hype for nothing.

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#21 Posted by comicdebater (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@ltbrd: Wow, that is actually brilliant. Oh my god, if that is true I'd be so happy.

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#22 Posted by 90sKid84 (38 posts) - - Show Bio

The movie sucked, are you guys sure we saw the same flick?

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#23 Posted by christianrapper (6159 posts) - - Show Bio

@mogo1 said:

@jayc1324: yeah the light saber battle was weird too. Even if Finn trained his whole life with multiple types of weapons he still shouldn't of barely touched kylo. But my thought on that is kylo was just playing with him being cocky because as soon as he got hit he disarmed Finn in one maneuver

Rey obviously trained with a bow weapon (slighyly ) so I'm hoping she picks up a double light saber at some point

no kylo wasn't playing with him. this is the movie versions of the jedi. they are nowhere near as powerful as their book counterparts. kylo was pretty weak to me anyway. he was no dark vader.

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