Superior Spider-man Sales Figures & Chart

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#201 Posted by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

@danslott@spider11211@punyparker If you don't like Superior Spider-Man, quit reading it. I don't care for it for a multitude of reasons so I don't buy it. If you come on here and complain about it, it's not going to do anything. Dan is not scouring message boards to figure out what to do next. I have thought/said mean things about Dan after ASM #700 and SS #9 but guess what... it's kind of ridiculous and sad because he's just a writer and Spider-Man is just a fictional character, a well loved character, but a character none-the-less. And if Dan accused you of being two people but you're not, who cares. I have read this whole argument on the Marvel board and this one and the more you argue your "innocence", the more guilty you look. Just know that even if Spock lasts for the next 5 years, at some point Peter will be back. Either enjoy the ride which will eventually establish Ock as a failure and Peter as his Spider-Man Superior or quit buying it until he gets written back. Everybody have a good night.

Μy questions were mainly about the story,and that's what i wanted to know.....

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#202 Posted by camstevens80 (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker sorry man... that was more directed at the other fella and just a lot of folks on the board in general... my bad

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#203 Edited by spider11211 (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@camstevens80 said:

@punyparker sorry man... that was more directed at the other fella and just a lot of folks on the board in general... my bad

Sorry to takeover the thread but when I am falsely accused of something I tend to like to defend myself.

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#204 Posted by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. That must be really annoying for you. I mean, having someone going out of their way to spread misinformation about you and what you do over the internet. I can hardly imagine what that must feel like.

Y'know what'd make it worse? If the person did it behind the anonymity of a screen name.

Or even WORSE, if they did it behind the anonymity of TWO screen names.

That'd REALLY suck. :-P

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#205 Edited by spider11211 (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

@danslott said:

Wow. That must be really annoying for you. I mean, having someone going out of their way to spread misinformation about you and what you do over the internet. I can hardly imagine what that must feel like.

Y'know what'd make it worse? If the person did it behind the anonymity of a screen name.

Or even WORSE, if they did it behind the anonymity of TWO screen names.

That'd REALLY suck. :-P

Wow you must be watching your screen every minute to see when I will post that is sad.

Nothing false was spread, just because you disagree does not make it false, it just means that you do not agree with it.

Only one screen name was used.

Have a good day:)

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#206 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

And yet "spider11211" didn't exist... until "fuzzball" was banned. And then the new user name, "spider11211," showed up to carry on "fuzzball's" arguments in the exact same way from the exact same IP# number, saying "I gotta agree with what that fuzzball guy said..."

What are the odds? :-)

It was only AFTER the site's moderator called out the FACT that it was the same IP# and that "spider11211" was a sockpuppet that ALL the great back story started showing up.

First "spider11211" was a different person using the same computer.

Then "spider11211" was someone from "upstairs" on the same server.

Then "spider11211" was someone from "down the hall."

You "guys" can't even keep your story straight.

All it takes is a little bit of web-searching to find one of the places where you screwed up and lost track of which of the two guys you were supposed to be. It's kinda funny. And I'm amazed you haven't found it yet and re-edited your gaff.

Look, I don't doubt that at some point "fuzzball" MIGHT have asked a friend to take over the "spider11211" account to try to help cover the embarrassing time you were caught red handed. And it's admirable that you're sticking to it. But geez, just move on already. It's silly. And after stuff like the recent Beat article, the point you've been crusading about is kinda moot.

Whatever.

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#207 Posted by camstevens80 (299 posts) - - Show Bio

Instead of getting mad about what's going on with Superior Spider-Man, try to use logic to figure out when he might come back. For example, since SS is twice a month, you could assume that it will be around issue #24 that Pete will come back since that makes a year or issue #33 since the new movie comes out at the beginning of May. Or, figure Marvel will bring him back in a big numbered issue, like #50 or #75 or #100. This would mean Spock stays around for 2 years and one month, 3 years and a month and a half or 4 years and two months.

From what I read on wikipedia, which could very well be wrong, Ben Reilly only stayed Spider-Man for a year's worth of issues. If this arc with Spock lasts much longer than that you can assume there will be a larger outcry shown in a loss of readers. If this story "works" as Slott says because you don't like Spock and you want Peter back, then it can't last too long because the only reason it's working to the extent it is is because people are hopeful for Pete's return. Eventually that hope will fade if not encouraged somehow. Plus, if you're not supposed to like him and there is no redemption and repentance for Spock, then people will get tired of reading about somebody they don't like. This is just an extended story arc. By Slott's own words, this can't play out too long. Even if it play out longer than you like, complaining about it won't accomplish anything.

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#208 Edited by spider11211 (1428 posts) - - Show Bio
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#209 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

I just want to make sure I'm getting this right. Your go-to-guy is the conservative blogger who was upset that Peter Parker/Spider-Man saved the lives of Korean soldiers instead of leaving them to die?

http://douglasernstblog.com/2012/05/20/spider-man-wont-kill-n-korean-soldiers-or-waterboard-a-man-to-save-6b-loser/

And the same conservative blogger who campaigned against MJ being raped in the pages of Superior Spider-Man... when no scene like that EVER happened in the book?

http://douglasernstblog.com/2012/12/20/superior-spider-man-is-dan-slott-asking-readers-to-root-for-a-rapist/

Good job, "spider11211." Hitch up your horse to that wagon. Go for it. You're kinda making this easy. :-) (Say, did you find that gaff yet? The place where you're talking as one sockpuppet but where you think you're actually the OTHER screen name?)

It's amazing to me that YOU say you feel the need to "defend yourself" against things said about your screen name, but you don't see the merit for me to do it when you are spreading untruths about me-- someone using their ACTUAL name online. Seriously, I'm amazed you don't just spontaneously combust from all the hypocrisy. Astounding. With some people the power of online anonymity & complete lack of accountability brings with it a total lack of shame.

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#210 Posted by spider11211 (1428 posts) - - Show Bio

To quote another forum member. More then 254 people can share an IP# this is very common and should be common knowledge.

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#211 Posted by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

To quote another forum member. More then 254 people can share an IP# this is very common and should be common knowledge.

Yes. But that's not a "get out of jail free card" for what you did over at the Marvel boards. It was pretty easy to see your sockpuppetry. And your sad attempts to get out of it only compounded it. Say, did you find your gaff yet? Did you find the place online where you screwed up and started talking as the wrong identity with the wrong screen name?

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#212 Posted by Yellowjacketfan (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow this is just brutal! Move on! With out 100% proof you are just guessing Slott and that is not right. As for anyone making things up about you(Dan Slott) those people are not right either!

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#213 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

Look, I've said my peace. Or rather, the latest industry analysis over at an indy site has said it better than I ever could.

In the past The Beat has pulled no punches when talking about the month-to-month sales figures. (In the same article you can see where Paul O'Brien lets some of Marvel's titles have it). This is NOT a case of a site that caves into-- or cuts ANY slack towards-- the Big 2. Quite often at The Beat, Marvel and DC are made out to be the "Black Hats" in their editorials and articles. The idea that they're swayed by "advertising dollars" or any kind of favoritism is laughable to anyone who's been following The Beat for MANY years.

It's just very telling that someone would place an anonymous source (who was acrimoniously worked up enough about Spidey sales to take screen caps of message board convos, set up a YouTube account JUST to distribute edited versions of them as videos, and set up a whole blog on the matter just to carry out a one-man-fan-crusade) over someone like Paul O'Brien with a working knowledge of the industry and a long track record of calculating these figures and putting them into a proper context.

I'll let this speak for me-- and leave it as my final word on the subject.

comicsbeat.com/marvel-month-to-month-sal...

"There’s a very gentle downward trend in evidence, but that’s to be expected with virtually every ongoing series. More significant is that the book is continuing to see real and sustained gains from the current storyline, which is giving it some of its best sales of the last few years, even six months into the arc."

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#214 Edited by douglas_ernst_1 (15 posts) - - Show Bio
@danslott said:

I just want to make sure I'm getting this right. Your go-to-guy is the conservative blogger who was upset that Peter Parker/Spider-Man saved the lives of Korean soldiers instead of leaving them to die?

http://douglasernstblog.com/2012/05/20/spider-man-wont-kill-n-korean-soldiers-or-waterboard-a-man-to-save-6b-loser/

And the same conservative blogger who campaigned against MJ being raped in the pages of Superior Spider-Man... when no scene like that EVER happened in the book?

http://douglasernstblog.com/2012/12/20/superior-spider-man-is-dan-slott-asking-readers-to-root-for-a-rapist/

Good job, "spider11211." Hitch up your horse to that wagon. Go for it. You're kinda making this easy. :-) (Say, did you find that gaff yet? The place where you're talking as one sockpuppet but where you think you're actually the OTHER screen name?)

It's amazing to me that YOU say you feel the need to "defend yourself" against things said about your screen name, but you don't see the merit for me to do it when you are spreading untruths about me-- someone using their ACTUAL name online. Seriously, I'm amazed you don't just spontaneously combust from all the hypocrisy. Astounding. With some people the power of online anonymity & complete lack of accountability brings with it a total lack of shame.

Here's the Dan Slottian technique for winning arguments: Completely distort what someone says and then react to a conclusion they never made. If the blogger is conservative just throw the word out there as a pejorative and then hope people latch on to that; personal attacks sometimes blind people to the real issues.

1. I was annoyed that with six billion lives on the line — when literally every second counted — your version of Spider-Man took precious seconds to get on a moral pedestal and berate his teammates over North Korea's gulag overseers. I was annoyed that your Spider-Man entered war zones and then acted surprised that it might not be possible to save everyone (especially guys who run torture chambers).

2. The point of the rape post (posed as a question in case you missed it) was to turn over what it would mean if Doc Ock became romantically involved with MJ under false pretenses. If MJ thought she was with Peter and slept with a body snatcher, does that constitute rape? That's an interesting question. You set the stage for such a thing to possibly happen, and then you mock readers who actually want to have an honest debate about the implications of your creation.

The bottom line is this: You complain about deadlines, but then spend a weird amount of time chasing Fuzzball around the internet. Maybe the guy's wife loves comics and she's defending him. So what. Maybe it's his buddy at work who also doesn't like SSM, but was moved to defend his friend when he was banned from the Marvel boards for, seemingly, the offense of vehemently disagreeing with the direction of the book. So what.

If my blog is so insignificant, why are you still bringing up those posts months later? If Fuzzball is a joke, why chase him down? In one sense you portray guys like us as ants ... but yet that can't be the case because what we're doing is obviously eating away at you.

Congrats on your sales, Mr. Slott. Perhaps you can turn Peter Parker into the new Green Goblin and really send sales to new heights. And then when people are upset you can make fun of them for not seeing your creative genius.

Side note: I wonder how many Peter Parker "hold outs" are out there. 30,000? Imagine if a creator was able to put together a story that could pull in everyone currently buying SSM and 75% of the Parker hold-outs. That would be truly special. I guess that's hard to do when Marvel's ambassador for the Spidey book makes jokes on Twitter about giving critics the "Jay and Silent Bob" treatment...

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#215 Posted by Spideysense44 (3839 posts) - - Show Bio

When the comic that Peter comes back in Spiderman might have the bestselling comic ever

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#216 Posted by MikeNerdo (3 posts) - - Show Bio

well... this forum has been a delight to read lol! I'm really new to this websites forum and I have really been liking this community but I guess ill get to my point on this subject.

To be perfectly honest sales do NOT determine if something is good or not. As I personally do not know Dan Slott I can't comment on if he is a great guy or not I'm sure we would get along but I can not say one bit that I enjoy SSM (And yes I do read my friends copies because I choose not to support his work) and I can't agree what he has done with this character and the choices he has made. That being said let him do what he wants because the next writer can change everything back if they wanted. I hope this ends swiftly and is done with soon if the fans truly don't want this then they need to stop buying the comics and if the sales are as good as Dan Slott is saying the fans have no one to blame but themselves. (Man I hope I don't become hated the first day of posting on the forums lol)

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#217 Posted by PunyParker (15717 posts) - - Show Bio

@spider11211: @danslott: Oh god,grow up you two.

This topic is about Sales of a Spider-Man comic book.There is MSN where you can chat directly,y'know.
Spider11211 is right for defending himself.Mr.Slott constantly bashing one person you dont know?....this is ComicVine,he wont get banned if that's your purpose.It isnt the Marvel forum where you can get your ways.Answer some story questions that are being asked,and get along with things.You registered here,be social here,too.99.5% of people here care about Spider-Man,and not the sales of the book.

@punyparker sorry man... that was more directed at the other fella and just a lot of folks on the board in general... my bad

No worries man.

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#218 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@douglas_ernst_1 said: "Here's the Dan Slottian technique for winning arguments: Completely distort what someone says and then react to a conclusion they never made."

Douglas, you've just described your entire style of blogging and attributed it to me. That's some crazy internet Kung Fu there from the master of distortion.

Your blog is about saying the most outrageous/incendiary things against those who disagree with your personal politics and worry about the truth of it later. Your first blog slamming me and my run on Spider-Man was about Peter Parker/Spider-Man saving the lives of Korean soldiers instead of leaving them to die. And when I stood up for that, I got on your list and became one of your favorite targets and the source of multiple blog entries.

It's very telling that your most frequent topic has been the supposed "inferior sales" of the book I work on-- with such headers as: "Superior Spider-Man: Everyone but Dan Slott knows it’s inferior to its predecessor" And yet for the multiple times you've made that case-- in the end-- in the face of actual facts-- and in this very thread you've FINALLY admitted:

@douglas_ernst_1 said: "Congrats on your sales, Mr. Slott."

So what was the point of the multiple blog entries before that? To me, that's what you're really all about. Arguing and arguing and arguing that you're right, and when you're proven wrong, ignore it and change the subject with something else that's inflammatory and see if that sticks.

You talk about "completely distorting what someone says and then reacting to a conclusion they never made," when that is really your main tactic at all times.

You have frequently taken one of Doctor Octopus' lines of dialogue OUT OF CONTEXT...

SPIDER-MAN: You really want to do this, don't you?! Kill six billion people!

DOC OCK: Over seven billion actually.

DOC OCK: But the human race is resilient, and the fifty thousand or so who'll climb out of the wreckage...

DOC OCK: ...they'll rebuild. Life will go on, and they'll REMEMBER ME!

DOC OCK: For that new society, I shall live on INFAMY-- a mass murderer worse than Pol Pot, Hitler, and Genghis Khan COMBINED!

In that exchange, Doc Ock, a man dying and afraid he will be forgotten, is reveling in how his murderous plan will achieve his goal of INFAMY. He compares himself to Pol Pot, Hitler, and Genghis Khan because of ONE of their traits: INFAMY-- and nothing else. Does he equate himself with their SPECIFIC atrocities? No. Just their infamy.

But you, in order to say something inflammatory on the internet, singled ONE name out of that list of three and blatantly DISTORTED that to IMPLY that myself and Marvel Comics would make Spider-Man a "Superior anti-Semite." That is the HEIGHT of distortion! And to punctuate it, you ran a blog that showed PICTURES OF JEWISH REMAINS BEING TAKEN OUT OF CONCENTRATION CAMP OVENS.

This is who you are. You're the kind of person who would do something like that-- and then be shameless enough to go to other web-sites and accuse other people of distorting things to make their points.

You play the Godwin's law card and still don't see how you or your tactics are wrong in any of this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

It would be tantamount to saying that a Bond villain was racist against Black people because he had a plan that would wipe out nearly EVERYONE in the world-- and, logically, along with everyone else, a percentage of that would be Black. That's the argument you're sticking with. Except you chose Jews in this scenario. Excuse me if I'm incredibly offended by that-- and remain offended to this day-- because I'M a Jew and I personally know people who've survived the Holocaust. I'm not talking about taking field trips to a historical site or visiting a Holocaust museum-- I'm talking living, breathing people who've told me of the horrors they witnessed first hand.

So when you go for cheap tactics like that because of your feelings about a COMIC BOOK, you've gotten my attention as someone who NEEDS to be pointed out for their GROSS DISTORTIONS of truth. A good person does NOT make a blog entry like this:

http://douglasernstblog.com/2013/05/15/dan-slotts-superior-spider-man-is-really-a-superior-anti-semite/

and show pictures of human remains being removed from ovens in order to WIN POINTS ON THE INTERNET. It's subhuman.

You make an argument that Peter Parker/Spider-Man wasted "precious seconds" to save the lives of fallen Korean soldiers instead of leaving them to die. That was the starting point between our "interactions" on the web-- and the start of why you've made me one of your favorite targets. And again I'd say, Peter Parker/Spider-Man tries to save EVERYONE. That's what he was about in my run: "No one dies."

He would have taken those few seconds on the battlefield to save even the WORST people on Earth-- he would have done it if they were Hydra agents, or Doctor Doom, or even if it was the burglar who shot his Uncle Ben. Because THAT is the kind of hero Peter Parker was.

Hell, you should love the Doc Ock version of Spider-Man, because he WOULD make the decision you're talking about and leave those men to die.

For the record, I have friends who are staunch conservatives. We disagree on things. A LOT. But I respect that they have their beliefs and they respect that I have mine. But they're not the kind of conservatives who give conservatism a bad name. They don't judge people by the size of the flag pin they wear-- or whether they call French Fries "Freedom Fries." There's a certain kind of cartoonish conservatism out there that is more than willing to spread spin and gross distortions to make their points. And, yes, there are liberals on the other side of the fence who use similar tactics as well. It's something that's lead to a polarization in this country which stops anyone from having an HONEST talk about ANY issue. It's politics that leads to nothing but gridlock and inaction in a time when we need solutions and compromise. And I think you're a voice that feeds into that kind of toxic atmosphere.

So, no, I do NOT enjoy singling you out. I do NOT enjoy shining any kind of spotlight on you at all. But when someone misguidedly links to something you've said as a foundation they're standing on-- I do feel obligated to point out just how shaky, unreliable, and compromised that ground is.

@douglas_ernst_1 said: "I guess that's hard to do when Marvel's ambassador for the Spidey book makes jokes on Twitter about giving critics the "Jay and Silent Bob" treatment..."

I think it's very appropriate you decided to go out on that...

In TYPICAL Douglas Ernst fashion you've taken something ELSE out of context in order to distort it. But I expect nothing less from you.

A poster had told Tom Brevoort that if his friend and colleague, Mark Gruenwald, were still alive, that Mark would be "pissed off" and disappointed about the work Tom was doing.

http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/56460072752/if-mark-gruenwald-was-still-alive-i-think-hed-probably

Tom was an intern, an assistant editor, an associate editor, and a full editor during Mark Gruenwald's tenure at Marvel. Tom worked with Mark on the Marvel Handbooks-- where they'd figure out a lot of the connective tissue of the Marvel Universe. Tom attended Mark's editorial classes on how to edit comics-- and now in his time at Marvel, Tom has created programs like "the weekly reading circle" to bring those classes back. When Mark passed away, one of his last requests was to have his ashes mixed in with a comic-- and Tom took that task. Tom kept Mark's ashes in his office till he felt he could find the right comic that could serve as Mark's final resting place.

When nothing seemed to be just right, Tom created the paperwork and pushed through a new collection of one of Mark's favorite stories-- his SQUADRON SUPREME series. Tom had a new Alex Ross cover commissioned-- and had Mark's ashes placed there. Every anniversary of Mark Gruenwald and artist Mike Wieringo's passing (another one of Tom's friends in the industry), Tom starts up a dialogue with fans to share their favorite moments of either meeting Mark and Mike-- or favorite parts of their work.

So, yeah, when a "fan" uses Tom Brevoort's tumblr account to suggest that Mark would be "pissed off" at Tom, I WOULD like to go "Jay and Silent Bob" on them. This is my full response in context:

https://twitter.com/DanSlott/status/360525224569077761

The fact that you would DISTORT THAT to make it sound like I would do that to a "critic" is the standard kind of dishonesty I expect from Douglas Ernst. I wasn't talking about a "critic", I was talking about an anonymous troll on the internet who was using their hurt feelings about a COMIC BOOK to justify using the memory of a deceased colleague as a cudgel for a very personal attack on one of my friends.

To bring this full circle:

@douglas_ernst_1 said: "Here's the Dan Slottian technique for winning arguments: Completely distort what someone says and then react to a conclusion they never made."

Imagine my surprise at seeing you try to tag me with your most defining characteristic.

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#219 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh this thread needs to be locked

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#220 Posted by darthfury78 (1507 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys. Let Dan Slott tell his story. To me, he is doing a wonderful job with Spider-Man. Even if you want him replaced as writer, who would Marvel replace him with? For all we know, the next writer will not be the person who will make himself(from his busy schedule) available to respond to Spider-Man related questions. Chris Yost doesn't have the time to answer most of our questions about Spider-Man. I say let Dan tell his story because he's the best writer for Spider-Man because I doubt that any of use would be able to manage the enormous time constraints that goes into publishing a bi-weekly comic book. Dan Slott the hardest working man at Marvel because he loves Spider-Man as well do, and he wants to make sure that we get a consistent story that writes about with no delays, unlike Zeb Wells and Joe Mad.

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#221 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus.

Look, I just came on THIS specific thread about sales to defend a fact that, honestly, shouldn't need defending.

Everyone on the SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN team has put a LOT of time, effort, and love into the book. And one of the places where we've clearly succeeded is in achieving some of the best-- and sustained-- sales that the Spider-Man titles have received in years. It's pretty much an inarguable fact-- at Marvel, at Diamond, at every major comic news site, with every pro in the industry, and everywhere industry policy is decided. It's pretty much at a 1+1=2 level of proof here. And the only place it's really disputed... is by anonymous online sources and outrageous internet-types with axes to grind. So... Take of that what you will. I'm more than happy to let the numbers speak for themselves.

If you want to ask me questions about Spidey, you can find me on twitter & FB.

Thanks.

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#222 Edited by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeesh and I thought things couldn't get worse on here.

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#223 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio
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#224 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#225 Edited by douglas_ernst_1 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

@danslott said:

@douglas_ernst_1 said: "Here's the Dan Slottian technique for winning arguments: Completely distort what someone says and then react to a conclusion they never made."

Douglas, you've just described your entire style of blogging and attributed it to me. That's some crazy internet Kung Fu there from the master of distortion.

Your blog is about saying the most outrageous/incendiary things against those who disagree with your personal politics and worry about the truth of it later. ... @douglas_ernst_1 said: "Congrats on your sales, Mr. Slott."

So what was the point of the multiple blog entries before that? To me, that's what you're really all about. Arguing and arguing and arguing that you're right, and when you're proven wrong, ignore it and change the subject with something else that's inflammatory and see if that sticks.

You talk about "completely distorting what someone says and then reacting to a conclusion they never made," when that is really your main tactic at all times.

You have frequently taken one of Doctor Octopus' lines of dialogue OUT OF CONTEXT...


In that exchange, Doc Ock, a man dying and afraid he will be forgotten, is reveling in how his murderous plan will achieve his goal of INFAMY. He compares himself to Pol Pot, Hitler, and Genghis Khan because of ONE of their traits: INFAMY-- and nothing else. Does he equate himself with their SPECIFIC atrocities? No. Just their infamy.

But you, in order to say something inflammatory on the internet, singled ONE name out of that list of three and blatantly DISTORTED that to IMPLY that myself and Marvel Comics would make Spider-Man a "Superior anti-Semite." That is the HEIGHT of distortion! And to punctuate it, you ran a blog that showed PICTURES OF JEWISH REMAINS BEING TAKEN OUT OF CONCENTRATION CAMP OVENS.

This is who you are. You're the kind of person who would do something like that-- and then be shameless enough to go to other web-sites and accuse other people of distorting things to make their points.

You play the Godwin's law card and still don't see how you or your tactics are wrong in any of this. ...

http://douglasernstblog.com/2013/05/15/dan-slotts-superior-spider-man-is-really-a-superior-anti-semite/

and show pictures of human remains being removed from ovens in order to WIN POINTS ON THE INTERNET. It's subhuman. ...

@douglas_ernst_1 said: "Here's the Dan Slottian technique for winning arguments: Completely distort what someone says and then react to a conclusion they never made."

Imagine my surprise at seeing you try to tag me with your most defining characteristic.

Mr. Slott: What's more offensive; your indiscriminate use of incendiary names or my reminder of the implications of your indiscriminate use of incendiary names? If you write a character who wants to surpass Hitler, Pol Pot and Khan in terms of evil perpetrated on the world, you shouldn't be surprised when someone unpacks that element of the man via a question (again, you missed that the headline was posed as a question or willingly chose to ignore it) on their blog. If a character who is about to kill six billion people references Hitler, and then I talk about Hitler, I am not abusing Godwin's law.

Fact: A character who came within inches of killing six billion people is now Spider-Man. Some of us think that is wrong on multiple levels and — regardless of sales — it will never be right.

As I've said on another forum, the point was to show a tear drop worth of the evil Hitler was known for. I'm sorry that upsets you, or that you can't separate my criticism of Doctor Octopus from my criticism of you as a person. I do not know you. All I know of you as that you spend an inordinate amount of time online looking for people to upset you and then after interacting with them cheer at the idea of having threads closed.

In regards to your "Jay and Silent Bob" attack, I didn't need to know the back story. There are plenty of people online and in person who say really mean things to me. That happens to all of us. Unless I'm physically threatened I don't go around joking that I would like to give them a beat down.

And finally, I never have denied the official sales numbers. My point has always been about fans who love Peter Parker. I believe there are tens-of-thousands of them who are sitting this out. A perusal through any number of message boards attests to the fact that many people pick it up off the shelf, flip through it and put it back. Or they borrow it from a friend. My point has always been that I wished a creator would unite all comic fans as much as possible — instead of using precious time they will never get back in life to needlessly anger fans with legitimate gripes.

Sales are not the sole litmus test for success, Mr. Slott. Aside from the new costume (which I must admit is pretty darn cool), I do not believe history will judge this era of Spider-Man kindly. You have sales — and I'm glad you're enjoying them — but do you have respect? That's a question better answered in another thread.

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#226 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@douglas_ernst_1 said:

"Mr. Slott: What's more offensive: your indiscriminate use of incendiary names or my reminder of the implications of your use of indiscriminate names? If you write a character who wants to surpass Hitler, Pol Pot and Khan in terms of evil perpetrated on the world, you shouldn't be surprised when someone unpacks that element of the man via a question (again, you missed that the headline was posed as a question or willingly chose to ignore it) on their blog. If a character who is about to kill six billion people references Hitler, and then I talk about Hitler, I am not abusing Godwin's law."

When you SPECIFICALLY use the term ANTI-SEMITE in your blog entry: "Is Dan Slott’s ‘Superior Spider-Man’ really a Superior anti-Semite?" and THEN-- and only then-- did you USE HITLER IN YOUR ARGUMENT. When you do THAT you are abusing Godwin's law, Douglas.

When you punctuate your point by showing a picture of JEWISH REMAINS BEING PULLED OUT OF A CONCENTRATION CAMP OVEN, Douglas, you are abusing Godwin's law.

No Caption Provided

People are not as stupid as you'd like to believe. No reasonable person is going to fall for your dodge.

YOU made the argument for ANTI-SEMITISM by cherry-picking Hitler out of the middle of a list of 3 historical villains, because ANTI-SEMITISM is the more incendiary term to use. Two thirds of that list included Asian despots, but you bee-lined for Hitler. THAT is abusing Godwin's law, you know it, and it's dishonest to say you weren't going there.

@douglas_ernst_1 said:

"In regards to your "Jay and Silent Bob" attack, I didn't need to know the back story."

I think that statement tells you everything you need to know about the Douglas Ernst style of blogging. You pull something out of context, DISTORT IT, and then claim you don't NEED TO KNOW about the original context in the first place.

@douglas_ernst_1 said:

"Sales are not the sole litmus test for success, Mr. Slott."

This is specifically a thread ABOUT the sales of the book. You're right, I don't hold that as the "sole litmus test" for the success of this title.

Things I do hold as measures of success:

The hard work, time, and dedication that the team has put into the book.

The friendship and comradery we've developed over the years.

My parents telling me they're proud of my accomplishments.

Fans and readers sending in emails, messages, and engaging me at shows, cons, and signings telling me how much they're enjoying the title. (You keep posting a faulty conclusion-- that due to angry comments you see online that there are "throngs of Peter Parker fans" who want nothing to do with the book. From what we've heard from fans-- over and over again-- is that LARGE NUMBERS of lapsed fans who were dissatisfied with Spidey for years-- have come back BECAUSE of this story. Most people understand that this book is still ABOUT Peter Parker, because it's showing us Spider-Man's world WITHOUT him. The "Peter Parker note" in the song is the one that's important because it's NOT being played. There are MANY Peter Parker fans who are having fun reading a book that they "love to hate." And, yes, sales DO reflect this. There's not some hidden army of fans lying in wait to rocket the book into an unheard of stratosphere. This is Marvel's highest selling ongoing title. I think it's safe to say that Peter Parker fans are IN that demographic. They may be frustrated. They may be reading the book to see IF Peter Parker is going to come back. But to think that they're NOT there at all is very myopic.)

Unsolicited notes, calls, and conversations where Spidey legends like Stan, Roger Stern, Gerry Conway, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, and many others have reached out to let me know that they're really digging the current run. (And when they start talking about specific story moments-- I'm floored!)

Klaus Janson specifically taking a trip into the city because he wanted to read an issue of Spidey in the office-- weeks before it would see print-- because he had to know how a story was going to end! :-D

My Editor In Chief calling me into his office and congratulating me on my work and telling me I could stay on the title as long as I wanted.

One of my lifelong idols, the writer of one of my favorite TV shows of ALL TIME, writing in to Marvel to say that the DYING WISH story line was "clever" and an "absolute stroke of genius." (I'm taking that one to my grave!)

These are just SOME of the things I use to measure success.

Sales are just icing on the cake.

@douglas_ernst_1 said:

"Enjoy your icing, Mr. Slott. I'm glad your parents are proud of what you do. I would be sad if they weren't."

Douglas, show your loved ones your blog entry where you try to distort the truth and portray a Jewish person as someone who would promote an anti-Semitic hero. Show them the picture you used to punctuate your point-- a picture of Jews being taken out of a concentration camp oven-- and then ask them if they are proud that you did that and proud of the tactics you use in your blog.

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#227 Edited by douglas_ernst_1 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Indeed, it is about sales — including the throngs of Peter Parker fans who want nothing to do with SSM.

Enjoy your icing, Mr. Slott. I'm glad your parents are proud of what you do. I would be sad if they weren't.

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#228 Posted by camstevens80 (299 posts) - - Show Bio

Reading these exchanges is more entertaining than I thought it could be. Also, reading these has caused me to see @danslott in a different light, rethink the whole Superior Spider-man thing, and realize it's not that bad. I don't like Spock but apparently I'm not supposed to, so I'm cool with that.

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#229 Edited by douglas_ernst_1 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

" Douglas, show your loved ones your blog entry where you try to distort the truth and portray a Jewish person as someone who would promote an Anti-semitic hero. Show them the picture you used to punctuate your point-- a picture of Jews being taken out of a concentration camp oven-- and then ask them if they are proud that you did that and proud of the tactics you use in your blog," (Dan Slott)

I see you went back and edited your original post and added quite a bit. Interesting...

You wrote a character who wanted to transcend Hitler, Pol Pot and Khan in terms of evil perpetrated upon the world. I unpacked the implications of that — and I said that the only retort possible is, "Oh, he's doesn't hate Jews — he just wanted to kill six billion people. And now he's Spider-Man." That was the point of the post. I'm sorry that escapes you.

And yes, there are many Peter Parker fans who are not buying the books. Deny it all you want. Mock us. Make fun of us. Ask if our parents are proud of us when you don't like our blog posts. Do what makes you happy, Mr. Slott. Like I said, enjoy your icing while it lasts.

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#230 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@douglas_ernst_1 said:

You wrote a character who wanted to transcend Hitler, Pol Pot and Khan in terms of evil perpetrated upon the world. I unpacked the implications of that — and I said that the only retort possible is, "Oh, he's doesn't hate Jews — he just wanted to kill six billion people. And now he's Spider-Man." That was the point of the post. I'm sorry that escapes you.

No. What seems to escape YOU is that YOU didn't talk about someone trying to blow up the world like a Bond villain.

YOU, Douglas Ernst, in very specific language and attacks framed the question THROUGH ANTI-SEMITISM!

YOU DID THAT.

You didn't show a picture of the world being destroyed.

You showed a picture of JEWS BEING TAKEN OUT OF A CONCENTRATION CAMP OVEN.

No Caption Provided

You did NOT make your argument about someone who wanted transcend Pol Pot, Hitler, and Genghis Khan in infamy.

YOU falsely made your argument first and foremost about an ANTI-SEMITE who wanted to commit atrocities against Jews.

Don't cowardly sidestep the argument that YOU were making.

People aren't stupid enough to fall for your dodge.

Own up to it and move on.

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#231 Edited by douglas_ernst_1 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr. Slott, I see that you keep using the image instead of, you know, substantive text from my blog. I do not wish to make this thread about my blog, so I won't do so.

Indeed, the horrors perpetrated upon the world by Hitler were pure evil. Now imagine a mountain of six billion dead bodies. That is the world your character, Doctor Octopus, sought to create. That is clearly what I was demonstrating, and anyone who reads the text will see that.

You accuse me of using outrageous tactics, and yet you're the guy who brags about sales as "icing on the cake" after killing Peter Parker and making Doctor Octopus the hero. Bravo. When is D.C. going to follow suit and make the Joker the new Batman?

I know that you want the last word. Take it. It's yours. Maybe then people could resume talking about sales, whether it's to mull over the number of disenchanted Parker fans or the 80,000 currently buying SSM.

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#232 Edited by DanSlott (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@douglas_ernst_1 said:
Indeed, the horrors perpetrated upon the world by Hitler were pure evil. Now imagine a mountain of six billion dead bodies. That is the world your character, Doctor Octopus, sought to create.

The basic concept that eludes you is this:

Hitler was committing atrocities against Jews.

Anti-Semitism is a loaded word. It is a word that carries with it a lot of weight.

And you used it improperly. You used it to smear me. You used it in a cruel, calculated, and deceptive way.

You KNEW it didn't apply. You used it for shock and attention.

And now, like a coward, you are trying to avoid the consequences of your choices.

The fictitious character I wrote about did NOT target Jews.

You used the specter of anti-Semitism to try to WIN POINTS IN AN INTERNET ARGUMENT.

And YOU, not me, chose to punctuate the whole thing with THIS picture:

No Caption Provided

What kind of person DOES that in the first place?

And I am NOT just using YOUR picture, Douglas. If you'd notice, there are also YOUR WORDS from YOUR BLOG.

"Got that? Doc Ock had a "Final Solution," but it involved being a "superior" version of Hitler, he would implement a plan that would in effect kill all of the Jews instead of just those residing in Europe."

You TITLED your blog entry about ANTI-SEMITISM-- when there was NONE in the book.

You wrote in YOUR OWN WORDS that Doc Ock was implementing "a plan that would in effect kill all of the Jews instead of just those residing in Europe" when you knew full well he was not singling out ANY group.

In these matters you are being dishonest and a coward instead of owning up to what you've done. And I have no problem in defending myself from such attacks.

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#233 Edited by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

@danslott: For once I agree with you

@god_spawn@vance_astro@mercy This thread is literally going to the dogs. Would one of you please lock it if that's not too much trouble?

I'm not locking this. Wu-Tang is here forever.

Moderator
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#234 Posted by Lvenger (36338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#235 Posted by gmanfromheck (42524 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll do the locking. So much hate. Let's all agree to disagree and move on with our lives. I think everyone has said what they want to say? I feel like this just isn't going anywhere.

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