Yeah, we all know CBR released the "marriage never to return again" article courtesy of Dan Slott (the Sloth). But this isn't about that. It isn't about why OMD should be destroyed or how the marriage can return. Its not about the politics of the reasons.

This is about us, why WE liked the marriage of Spider Man and Mary Jane. The benefits, the pros, the progress, everything we liked about it and what it added to the Spider Man Mythos. The primary focus is the canonical marriage that ran from 1987 to 2007 with secondary additions from the newspaper strip, Spider Girl and RYV.

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Me

I liked/loved the marriage because I loved both Peter and MJ as characters very much so. Both of them had depth and layers to them that made them interesting and emphatic characters with inner struggles and fears. In an era where Spider Man was always providing an invaluable service to the people of NY by being the costumed superhero, he was always getting the short end of the stick and despite everything he did he often came down empty handed, back to square one. The marriage ensured that Peter was never alone providing him with a life partner who would always stand by him and give him mutual support, someone to go back to and a future to cherish. It was a progression and it also gave Peter even more motivation to make the world a better place, a daily, breathing and real reminder of why he is Spider Man. The chemistry both of them had together as friends and lovers was also interesting and highly entertaining both in their love life and their mutual understanding of each other. The marriage was sustenance, a lifeline for both Peter and MJ. MJ was also not a traditional love interest as even though she played the beleaguered wife from time to time she was also a dynamic character who saved herself and her husband as many times as she was saved.

MJ is Spider Man's premier and one true love interest and almost every superhero has one. Superman has Lois, Batman has Selina, Green Arrow has Black Canary, Wonder Woman has Steve Trevor, Mr Fantastic has Susan Storm, Barry Allen has Iris West, Wally West has Linda, Hulk has Betty Ross, Daredevil has Elektra, etc. There will never be another love interest with as much history and staying power and classical status than MJ so they shouldn't even try to pin Peter with someone else because MJ is the one and that's how it always should be.

There's more to this but this is what I've got at the moment I wrote this.

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Just wanna know why you guys liked it and why it was good and special.

@animehunter@itsaworld@marvelman92@zariusii@blacksuit@quilsniv@magnetic_eye@kiba@knightwriteri@eto

@ursaber: Well said fellow Spidey fan! Actually, you pretty much summed it up for me. This might sound cheesy af but I dont care, I think they were destined to each other, period.

Peter+MJ were also a role model for others. Very loyal to each other, protecting, loving, from time to time maybe a litte row but at the end of the day it's all good!

Ps. SHOUT OUT TO THOSE HIGHER UPS AT MARVEL. THE FANS WON'T FORGET THIS, NEVER EVER AND WILL COMPLAIN UNTIL THE MARRIAGE HAS BEEN REINSTATED.

SUCK. IT. UP.

@eto: So what you really liked about the marriage was their loyalty towards each other.

@ursaber: @ursaber: that and the things you mentioned!

@animehunter@itsaworld@marvelman92@zariusii@blacksuit@quilsniv@magnetic_eye@kiba@knightwriteri@bjparks@oldwasher@g2_

Invite

Okay...well let's start out with some things about me

Growing up, you knew a lot about superheroes, cartoons, videogames, disney and stories.

Every single one of them told you a hero would come waltzing around, find love and fight their way to their beloved. In Disney, that means that they would be married, in videogames it meant you saved the world, and in comics...it just meant you saved your love and nothing happened. Even as a kid you wondered when would Clark Kent marry Lois? When would Bruce Wayne marry Selena Kyle? They have been dating for years yet nothing ever occurs.

It became a big trope within hero comics, a hero could not expose their identity, a hero had to always fight for good, and a hero could never be close to someone. Well, when every book on the market does that, things get awfully boring and annoying rather fast.

The great thing was, spider-man kinda always broke tropes. Heroes were never meant to be children or teenagers unless on a team or a sidekick, yet Peter was a solo hero. Most heroes had a happy lifestyle but Peter had a lot of issues and problems in his life. So when it came to the part where a hero must walk alone, Peter broke that trope too and married Mary Jane.

To a kiddo, it's really nice and different. You kinda want to see your heroes grow up, get married and have kids. Only natural. It was what most kids are raised upon so why can't we see it in our role models. Spider-Man defied tropes constantly and did it within great writing. Lets not forget, he was always planned to get married from the getgo. He was never meant to remain single. The original wife though, was actually supposed to be Gwen Stacy, yet she wasn't as compelling or interesting.

In manga, they tend to have their characters finally find a beloved and get hitched. Not many walk a battle alone and I think it's one of the reasons Manga is so compelling to people. It can be at times far more realistic, even with robots or magic.

Danny Boy can always say they will never reinstate the marriage, but like I always say, no one can really predict the future. The board will always change and writers on Spider-Man don't stay forever. He is almost at a 10 year mark, which tends to be a point where I can see them actually letting him go. To keep Spider-Man fresh, they kinda go for different talent constantly. It's only natural that he is going to be removed in a while. I really don't see him staying for too long when I think the longest someone has written for spidey was like 12 years.

Things change, fates alter, life throws you a curveball. Like comic island says, show your discontent with your wallets. It's one of the only languages Marvel knows

Dan Slott. Slott is a word that to me always rimed with Sloth. Know what Sloth means: the late Jesuit Fr. John Hardon defined sloth as "sluggishness of soul or boredom because of the exertion necessary for the performance of a good work".

Maybe he is telling the truth and for some reason the heads of Marvel Comics are keeping it forbidden out of some misguided and infantile reasoning. In which case they are just plain wrong.

Or maybe he's misdirecting, lying or trolling everyone because the return of the spider marriage signifies the end of relevance for his entire run just like JMS' was. In which case he should be fired.

All I know for certain is that their decision, reasoning and excuses for locking the marriage in the comics, which has a far less numerable demographic, is plain wrong.

He's one guy in an industry with hundreds.

I'm only happy with him about confirming my theory was true. They LITERALLY attempted to kill Mary Jane off in that plane crash story way back. They literally tried to get rid of the marriage that way. They had to bring MJ back because of fan outcry.

From what he states, they just decided 'we are just not going to listen to the fans anymore and just remove the marriage' and they did...and they are...kinda suffering for it.

From the announcements of RYV, it would seem that the team behind that series is trying to showcase that a fatherly Spider-Man will sell, even with the odds stacked against them and an editorial team that doesn't approve of this. Like I wanna see video of the panel that first announced this. I wanna know how people reacted to it.

Besides, the Marriage became an iconic kinda staple for Marvel. It seemed to work well for a character like Peter. I really don't understand why he needs to be single.

Its their infantile reasons for it. Because they didn't like it, felt comfortable with it, etc. It's because it was inconvenient for them or because it didn't convey the idea they wanted Spider Man to be. Its infantile and poor on their part.

I don't believe there was any good, plausible way to end the marriage. After their twenty year long history of clone sagas, venoms, stalkers, separation and miscarriages, to having survived through all that, they would've never gotten a divorce or separated. There was just no good way to do it because it didn't need to be done. It was wrong and I hope it bites them in the ass big time. They are the bad guys and they won. Its just not right.

I used to like Dan Slott. But this is the most blatant way of telling the fans that you no longer, in any way, care about what they want. It's funny because DC is currently outselling Marvel by giving the fans exactly what they want in the form of Rebirth. Marvel won't regain their sales until they realize what we actually want. And one is those things is the Spider-marriage.

What I liked about the marriage was that it is grounded in reality. The slice of realism in Spider-Man tales is what keeps it relatable for me within the confines of super-hero escapism. The stories maintain a degree of plausibility so that they don't become too far detached from reality.

This is why I detest Slott's absurd nonsensical stories with terrible campy dialogue and bad fan-fiction writing.

Most importantly I love the dynamic interaction between Peter and MJ. As most people in successful relationships, they work at maintaining their relationship, with a perfect sense of security and a wonderful trust, love and commitment for one another, especially MJ's understanding of Pete's role of responsibility as Spider-Man. Peter and MJ display a deep level of commitment even during tough times and that's what makes their relationship work. They are a couple that communicate well during conflict because they know they are in it for the long term.

There is a deep love and respect between Peter and MJ, and as is the case with all human beings, the need for companionship, mutual help and comfort. Having Peter swing around as a hedonistic buffoon is so infantile and extremely irresponsible, but HEY! that's Dan Slott's dysfunctional fantasy.

I don't believe there is much relationship stability in the lives of some (so called) Marvel writers, so how can they possibly write from life experience when they're not in relationships themselves. There is much drama, action and fun to be had writing about a couple in a loving committed relationship facing everyday problems, ever present danger and overcoming them with plausible victories.

YES! Very well said. I just hope their neglect starts to seriously bite them in the ass.

@magnetic_eye:

Very well presented and said. I just cannot understand the narrow minded heads of Marvel Comics' need to maintain Peter Parker as a perpetual Peter Pan, because in their flawed reasoning its to protect the viability of the character and that there were only so many stories to tell with a married Spider Man. The same logic can be applied that there are only so many stories to be told with a single Spider Man and the only ones at fault are them for their terrible editorial decisions and the writers with limited skill set whose inability to write couples says a lot about their expertise. A good writer always finds a way to tell great stories regardless of marital status. In fact, something as important yet simple as marital status should not in any way limit creativity. Its highly probable that they disliked the marriage because they couldn't do love triangles.

Their whole argument is flawed, unreasonable and infantile. In their narrow minded ignorance they single handedly destroyed Spider Man and Mary Jane and no amount of time or ignorance of the past will ever conceal or dumb down the terrible decision they made in 2007.

@magnetic_eye: some dude just replied to your last comment on CBR about Slott's Anti-Marriage rant and completely blew you off. Guy's completely wrong.

I liked (no, loved) the spider marriage because it was the big event that made peter grow from a lonely teenager to an everyday family man. Peter had met the one person in his life who helped him in every step of his career and stood by him during his greatest struggles.

If anyone here hasn't read it, check out "to have and to hold" written by Matt Fraction in sensational Spider-Man annual #1. It's by far the greatest Spider-Man love story I've ever read and it shows just how powerful the marriage is.

@ursaber thanks for the invite for this.

I would also argue that Gerry Conway's Parallel Lives is also a perfect example of how great the Peter MJ relationship was. But I do love to Have and to Hold.

I liked the marriage because it was a reward of sorts, in fact the greatest reward. An end to solitude. Someone to stand by him through thick and thin who loves Peter unconditionally and shares the burden of Spider Man's curse. It was a relief, a blessing to him. Someone to come back to and fight for, a living breathing reminder of why he is Spider Man, to make the world better for her.

I would suggest you also read Spider Man Unlimited (2003) Issue 2. Link below

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Spider-Man-Unlimited-2004/Issue-2?id=44573#1

Thanks ursaber, haven't had a chance to look at it yet. Will try to have a look later tonight :P

It's really just the idea that he has something good in his life, and it's as simple as that. I love Gwen, and I always wanted Peter to be with her, but after her death, I sort of realized it wouldn't happen, and it sucked. I didn't have a good opinion on MJ at this time, but then I found out about the massive mistake that was Sin's Past, and it sounds sorta stupid, but Gwen sorta became 2nd place for Peter, to me. Then finally reading through the comics and seeing how MJ always had his back as Peter or Spider-Man, it was nice to see he has a win over the world. Her character is awesomely written too, at least for me. I loved her character, not so much now, then again, they marginalize against her all the time now (but I am loving the MJ Variant cover love she's getting!).

I don't believe in the rant he gave, and I hate his stories. I hated most of it. I hate where Peter is now, and where MJ is now. I want them back together, and I want Slott off the story. It'll happen eventually. For now, I'm glad we have RYV. It's a cute book, and awesomely written. I refuse to give Slott the credit he wants for RYV, since he kept bringing up how he gave us that.

Feelings mutual, save for Gwen cause when I got into Spider Man, MJ was the wife and love interest so I never really liked Gwen until the Spectacular Spider Man cartoon and the Amazing movies. She was still third place to me after Black Cat in second and MJ in first.

MJ to me was always a lot of fun. She demonstrated clever wit and hosted a dynamic personality uncommon in most love interests. She had as much depth as Peter himself at times what with her tragic child life and her hiding behind the mask of a party girl. She was pro active, and even when she was at times portrayed as a damsel she almost always got out of those situations with her own ability. She's a badass through and through. She was also the best thing to happen to Peter, she was like a well earned reward of sorts, a living breathing reminder of why he is Spider Man and why he continues his mission, because he has to make the world better for her.

As for Slott, I've heard a lot from my CV colleagues of greater experience that he's known for lying and misdirecting but I can't on good conscience just ignore all he said because unlike me, he works for Marvel and he is the head scribe for Spider Man so he has to know stuff but at the same time the dude is an absolute dick who overestimates himself and treats the fans with disdain. RYV is an answered prayer as its a world where neither OMD nor Civil War ever happened. They have an endearing spider daughter that looks like MJ and has Peter's powers and combines the best of both worlds. Aunt May is finally at rest and Spider Man is an accomplished, competent and well rounded man and superhero. Slott's major problem is that he sometimes has interesting ideas, concepts and presentations to them but he always messes it up in execution and his dialogue is campy and downright awful. Superior was the last straw and everything after is pure trash. I hate that MJ is in Iron Man as I would've rather left her in limbo until Slott left the book.

Well said, well said. I love Felicia, too. I completely forgot about her. Superior and onward ruined her, too. It sucks. She's a total criminal that just wants Peter down on the ground now, and for something pretty stupid, too, considering she was willing to come back to New York for him. I was worried she'd be way too invested in Iron Man now, but with Tony just being stuck in a coma, I'm glad Marvel has no idea what to do with her, so they just brushed her back into the void where she's been for the past few years. They love to do this thing where they mix everything up way too much, but moving MJ to Iron Man is dumb, and she needs to be back by Peter's side, imo. That's where she belongs. Her character is just as detailed as Peter himself, like you said, and she's not even a freaking superhero. Honestly one of the best non-hero characters written, imo. She compliments Peter and Spider-Man.

@xXRedTokyoXx:

MJ is undoubtedly Marvel's most iconic non powered supporting character. Were I to bring Peter and her back together (OMD retcon) I would make her an active contributor to all of her and Peter's shared lifestyles. Similar to what she's doing in RYV. I would make MJ Spider Man's partner of sorts and even give her some powers as well. It wouldn't be like in the mid 90's when MJ was a belleaguered housewife always trying to get Peter to quit being Spider Man or waiting at home worrying. That is not MJ. She is a badass and the best love interest.

When a marvel company openly admits that they don't care what the fans want.... loses all respect. Dam Slott is supposed to be writing for himself. He is supposed to be writing for us. Otherwise it's just fanfiction.

Because it made sense, spiderman was a shy nerd who deeply cares about feelings and that would make him even more unique because he would progress in his personal life while most heroes at the time were stuck in the single life for plot reasons.

I got it that characters going in new relationships is a great clickbait but Peter is not a playboy, an antisocial loner or a batshit insane person,he had what?Dozens of relationships with super hot girls that lasted a couple of weeks each in less than a decade while claiming that he still loves Mary Jane. that sounds like Peter?

Its like now that they have the Disney lifeline, they're becoming serious dicks about everything and doing what they want and shoving everything down our throats forcing their agendas and crap into us.

@bluehope: Agreed. Peter already went through the dating stage and found the one true love interest in MJ so after that there was no need for anyone else.

I'm not a huge Spidey fan, but I do like the idea of following a character from his teenage years into adulthood and marriage and parenthood. Superhero comics a lot of the time feel static and unmoving. Peter's journey should have been something other writers embraced, but there are many (sometimes powerful) people in the industry that think superheroes can't be older than mid-20s and have to be single.

Sadly there are. These people are not without merit but oftentimes they're narrow minded and don't fully understand the consequences of it. Long term viability is maintained by a good writer, not a character status quo that keeps things the same. Right now the comic book reader demographic is very low with almost everyone learning of superheroes through other media and then possibly getting into comics. Stan Lee created Spider Man to grow, evolve and progress. Had that not been his intention, he would've never aged Peter past his high school years. Keeping him in a perpetual loop these past ten years has done more damage than good and made readers leave rather than stay.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

Couldn't agree more.

It's funny because we saw Spider-Man's progression reach its' full potential coming out of the sixties and into the seventies as an adult superhero. That was maintained as the status quo over the next four decades which included his marriage in 1987. Whilst Spider-Mans' popularity started with him in High School, it was built upon with progress and maintained to peak popularity with him as an adult.

I love the marriage because it was a significant symbol of growth and progress, not only for Peter and Mary Jane. But the Spider-Man's mythos as a whole, it was a positive development that few comic book character experience. It played in the Slice Of Life theme, that helped make Spider-Man famous.

Also Peter and MJ's bond was so pivotal, it was a true joy to see them find the content love in each other. That few in real life and fiction experience or find.

Theirs was truly a slice of realism marriage. With a LOT of ups and downs but it nonetheless became a force to be reckoned with. I love the marriage, primarily, because I love both Peter and MJ as individuals and how despite being capable in their own right, they yearn for that special other and not be alone. So together, they're better than apart and support each other in all forms.

@ursaber: I agree fully with your post dude, one of the many things I loved about Peter and MJ's marriage. Is it was portrayed in very realistic manner, with ups, downs and moments in between. It was an very endearing and inspirational marriage/bond, like you I love both Peter MJ individually. But there is something majestic about them together, that even non fans of them have to acknowledge.

@eto: @itsaworld: @xXRedTokyoXx: @magnetic_eye: @theheaven_guardian10:

And because of this picture:

@ursaber said:

@eto: @itsaworld: @xXRedTokyoXx: @magnetic_eye: @theheaven_guardian10:

And because of this picture:

Love that picture!

@ursaber: Adorable pic

@magnetic_eye said:

@ursaber said:

@eto: @itsaworld: @xXRedTokyoXx: @magnetic_eye: @theheaven_guardian10:

And because of this picture:

Love that picture!

To me, that image is telling me "Everything's all right". This is the ideal life of Peter Parker and Mary Jane.

It mirrors what Aerith said to Cloud at the end of FFVII Advent Children.

@ursaber: That picture is so beautiful.

Yes it is. And so is this one.

YES!

It is single-handedly the WORST Spider Man story ever told as well as OMIT. Even Clone Saga was better than that shitshow. Another runner up for worst would be Superior Spider Man.

This thread is to tell why we loved the Spider Marriage so feel free to give your honest thoughts. ASM Renew Your Vows Vol 2 is the best Spider Man book currently out there.

The new ongoing Renew Your Vows series is hands down the best Spider Man book to come out in the last decade and by far one of the best if not the best book in Marvel's current lineup. I consider Slott's RYV secret wars tie in to be his best work but the new series by Gerry Conway is an another astronomical league. You will not regret it one bit.

Spider Man's problems exist because of Marvel's narrowminded view of the character. They want him to remain a perpetual Peter Pan who never grows or progresses and when he does its all reset to go back to the status quo. They've eliminated any long term staying power because no matter what anything that is brought up on Spider Man will be taken away to go back to the status quo of Peter being a single, mama's man boy.

Spider Man was created to progress and evolve not remain perpetual. Otherwise Stan Lee would've never aged him past his high school years. Even Bendis wanted to age Ultimate Spider Man but was prevented by Quesada and editorial. They use this excuse to protect the long term viability of the character and for "brand reasons" but the viability of the character is dependent on the writer. As for brand reasons, the comic book division has the least amount of power out all other divisions such as video games, tv, cartoons and movies and the lowest demographic audience. Peter's marital status does not affect this nor does it deter readers from the book. Their excuses are invalid and poor, they only OMD'd Peter because they themselves didn't like the Spider Marriage.

But apparently, according to Sony, Spider Man will leave the MCU after the Homecoming sequel and the Avengers movies. Its all so messed up.

They still have all the Spider Man rights, they just made a deal to show Spider Man in the MCU.

Then they're not getting them back :) Spider Man merchandise such as toys and backpacks and all that are the highest earning of any superhero so Disney is never gonna relinquish that!

@acer515: Taking Spider Man away from the MCU is a bad business deal. Their attempts to create a shared spider man universe has thus far failed. I even heard they wanted to do an Aunt May movie, the studio called it absolute trash. I think the Venom and Silver Sable Black Cat films are just to up the value of the studio before they sell it cause after losing Sandler (embarrassing), the Ghostbusters dud and the uncertainty of James Bond, they are in deep shit.