It's already been established that all of the Flashes can move past light-speed via the Speed Force. As for Superman, he's never shown to move at light-speed while running. This should answer your question, though. This scan was taken from Flash v2, #220.
Flash states that Superman is moving at over 2000 miles/sec, which is also over 120,000 miles/minute, and also 7,200,000 mph. That's Mach 9350. I believe this is that fastest that I've seen Superman move under the Earth's atmosphere. He can, however, break light speed in the vacuum of outer space.
In the "Human Race" storyline, Flash was able to beat an intergalactic teleporter from the far side of the galaxy to Earth with a little help from the planet's running population.
As far as I know, Flash is faster. I only ever seen that episode of justice leauge where they have that big race, and as far as I know, Flash was holding back when he raced superman, and even then he was beating superman.
" In the "Human Race" storyline, Flash was able to beat an intergalactic teleporter from the far side of the galaxy to Earth with a little help from the planet's running population. "
This storyline is of particular relevance because of the starting context. That is, god-like aliens declare that the Earth will be destroyed unless its champion wins the race. Even if we believe Superman is humble and holds back, that would be no time to do so... the Earth, unanimously, voted Flash to represent them in the race. That means, at least as far as the heroes of planet Earth are concerned, there's no one better suited to represent them in a challenge of speed for the fate of the whole planet.
As far as the "speed lending" from across the universe, Wally didn't discover that until mid-race after his opponent confessed that was how he was able to keep up with Flash. So when Earth decided Flash was the fastest, it wasn't with that secret weapon in mind, that revelation came later in the story.
In terms of running, the most recent example is of Barry blowing Supes out of the water in Rebirth #4 (Johns having written Flash for years but also writing Secret Origin and heavily involved in Superman's post-IC relaunch). Wally "raced" Superman in Flash #209 (although it was more of a conversation). Jay raced Superman in DC First Superman / Flash (one-shot) where he was just as fast but low on endurance so he used the "speed steal" technique to be faster than Superman. Then there's the not so oft quoted Superman vol 2 #191 where Superman gets super-speed training from Wally but is blown away repeatedly in terms of speed.
In a race in the desert, Flash is so fast he goes to the city to get them a case of bottled water, runs back to the finish line, and draws his logo in the dirt before Superman can catch up.
Versus flying speed it is far more ambiguous because apparently the writers shy away from the topic. Nonetheless we do have two data points. In JLA vol 3 #21, Superman explicitly states, "I'm not faster than light--!" (for the purpose of a partially in atmosphere flying rescue), Wally is about to volunteer saying "I can--" (in that he is faster than light) but the issue is resolved by Flash using his speed-lending power. This was written by Mark Waid... a man who adores Superman having written some of the most iconic Superman stories (Kingdom Come, Birthright) and he's certainly an Flash expert having written Wally for years... so if in Waid's opinion Flash is faster than Superman, even flying, I think it's reasonable to defer to him.
Granted, there is one blurb where someone else talking about Superman claims he flies FTL in space (and there are a handful of comics where he just appears places and we presume FTL although there is no on-panel mention)... I would still tend to consider Waid a better authority, but even then you can reconcile the two by adding atmosphere to the equation. In modern continuity there are several references to the fact that Superman does NOT have an aura like the Flashes... so traveling through the atmosphere rips it up (sonic booms and the like)... he uses this to explode a boat in South America. This is consistent with the time Superman flew to the middle east to catch Lois after she was shot. There is no way he would hold back in that situation, but his clocked speed was nowhere near light speed... so if we must reconcile we can say Superman won't use FTL in atmosphere.
The second data point is when Morrison said the same thing (yet another authority on both Superman and Flash- a man who wrote All Star Superman at the epitome of his power and who cemented Superman with a 853 century long legacy in DC One Million... but he also wrote Flash for a while both in his book and JLA, and gave Wally some of his greatest feats) so again, I would defer to the experts actually writing the books.
In sum, though fan oft like to debate it... it would seem the issue is settled in the minds of Johns, Waid, Morrison, etc.
" It's already been established that all of the Flashes can move past light-speed via the Speed Force. As for Superman, he's never shown to move at light-speed while running. This should answer your question, though. This scan was taken from Flash v2, #220.
Flash states that Superman is moving at over 2000 miles/sec, which is also over 120,000 miles/minute, and also 7,200,000 mph. That's Mach 9350. I believe this is that fastest that I've seen Superman move under the Earth's atmosphere. He can, however, break light speed in the vacuum of outer space. "
A small correction... that is from Flash v2 # 209. Issue 220 is when the Rogue War begins as a capstone to the first run at the Flash by Johns.
Flash can run faster then the speed of light, he just lets superman think he has a chance
he has broken the light barrier AND reality barrier and i dont know if this is FTL speed but once he evacuated a couple million people 30 miles away in 0.01 microseconds....you guys can figure that out. superman is faster then lightning running wise i believe so their you go answer solved good day to you sir lol.
This seems to be slowly turning into a Flash vs Superman thread. Hes just asking for numbers guys. @Static Shock said:
It's already been established that all of the Flashes can move past light-speed via the Speed Force. As for Superman, he's never shown to move at light-speed while running. This should answer your question, though. This scan was taken from Flash v2, #220.
Flash states that Superman is moving at over 2000 miles/sec, which is also over 120,000 miles/minute, and also 7,200,000 mph. That's Mach 9350. I believe this is that fastest that I've seen Superman move under the Earth's atmosphere. He can, however, break light speed in the vacuum of outer space.
There is no exact figure but wally is capable of traveling beyond the speed of light. Also to touch a bit by how much faster he is than superman, during his fight with zoom they had circled the globe many times over and had been moving so fast that it seemed that time had not even passed, wally noted how no one could help him as they were essentially statues, this included superman.
I know that the DCU does not explain physics, but is there an explanation about how Flash manage to go FTL ? Cuz' according to my physics lessons, nobody/nothing can outrun Speed of Light if it has any mass.
Well lets not forget the fact that when flash and superman was racing flash was never beeing serious and allways kept in tact with superman. Allso lets not forget the episode where flash actually ran so fast that he stopped existing.
I'm not sure how fast superman can go, but at one point in vol. 1 of Barry's run as Flash, he measured that he could go 10x the speed of light. That being said, I'm not sure if that fact remained continuous throughout the DC universe or not.
@nam42589: The flash can run at 60 decillion times the speed of light, and can experience things happening within an attosecond superman can only hit speed of light
If superman is exposed to a blue or white sun, he will be as fast as the flash, hands down, if there was a white sun, superman would be so fast and so powerful, everything around him would be desintigrated, so superman speed depends on the star, maybe superman could even move fast than the speed force it's self if he had been given power from a white star
@russcovito: On the contrary, yes it does state that nothing with mass can move at the speed of light......but if it has infinite energy (which the flash is powered by the speed force / I am pretty sure that that's infinite?) it can run AT the speed of light. The big question is how does the Flash run Faster than the speed of light?( most theories state that if anything tries to move faster than the speed of light the universe wouldn't allow it and slow down time to stop them from achieving that speed)
Flash never tries against other heroes but SA was a walking plot device. Minus SA wally is the 2nd fastest thing in DC behind Zoom, and technically zoom isn't fast at all.
@el_bread: Superman can only go that speed if he flying if you do a foot race no he can only go Mach 4 on foot the flash is fast enough to tear dimension so in certain way yes flash can be faster so can superman
It isn't obvious who is faster since the difference in their abilities.
1. Superman has to use his strength to fight friction on earth but too much and he breaks things.
2. Flash can vibrate his molecular structure so fast he breaks light and can phase out of reality itself.
Now here is the thing. Flash allows him to run without the limits of friction as well as being able to control friction and force with his cells enough to stop instantly and run top speed with one step.
Superman however does have to fight friction and flying isn't supported by his strength but if he ran with all the power in his legs he should be able to right? Wrong. Friction is a powerful force. If flash can defy that force without breaking a sweat while superman has to use strength to get himself along not to mention how superman limits himself so he doesn't destroy anything then anywhere that has enough friction the flash will win.
Now what if we removed friction and went into space. Say flash could have a surface to run on while in a place with no friction then he will lose his advantage. Well it was explained that superman was barely beat by flash but enough to admit his loss but flash secretly was going near, but nowhere near enough to worry, his limits. The very limits that caused him to nearly die. Now take that into consideration when putting them into space. Sure flash wouldn't need to vibrate but he can still run the same speed if not his limit. Superman now no longer held back by friction or damaging anything around him can let loose.
With this information you should be able to tell that flash is only limited by how much he can vibrate his molecules to defy friction but too much and he fades out of existance. On earth Superman cannot beat Flash but Superman is the victor in a vacuum since he would have no need to worry about his molecular structure (he can survive the sun which is just nuclear fusion) or friction or opposing forces.
So technically it all depends on how you look at it. Flash on a planet (or place of extreme forces) or Superman in space.
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