Well. this just cements my lack of buying any DC comics. Until they realize they are ruining a heck a lot of characters with all this shtick, i'm not touching DC.
Scott Lobdell
Person » Scott Lobdell is credited in 1093 issues.
Scott Lobdell is an American writer best known for his work on Uncanny X-Men, Generation X and Red Hood and the Outlaws.
Interview: Scott Lobdell on Superboy, Jason Todd and Tim Drake Not Being 'Robin'
: / ...sometimes these changes just feel like change for the sake of change. Am I the only one who enjoys these (new 52) stories, but still has (in their head) the pre-52 as the current state of things? haha (like if you were to explain something about the DC universe to someone who isn't a comic fan, etc). sheesh...Superman had different takes on his origin even just in the late 90's/early-mid 00's, but nothing drastically different.
What is the deal with time line? That is one of the things that has me very confused. I don't get it, has Batman only been active for 5 years? I so then what about Dick, was he still Bruce's kid when he was 8.....Hell how did he become Nightwing if Superman has only recently started out? I'm so very lost.....and Jason he died in what six months of being Robin and Tim enters as Red Robin?!?!?!?! All this shit make no fucken sense to me......
@Daemon707: Here are some answers to ease your confusion:
1. Batman has been active more than 5 years, 5 years ago was the formation of the Justice League. Every member of the JL was active at the time (from a few months to maybe years) except for Cyborg.
2. Dick Grayson was orphaned at 16 in this new continuity. He was Robin first then Nightwing.
3. Superman has been active longer than Dick Grayson.
4. Jason Todd died as the second Robin (time frame for how long he was Robin isn't established. Some say it was defined as 2 years in Red Hood. I haven't verified). Tim Drake then was the next Batman sidekick as Red Robin.
Still confused?
Can they publish a time line for every character? Maybe at the end of an issue give a real quick one of that character and their supporting cast?
I wish I had never read this interview. Ignorance really is bliss. I didn't like what Lobdell was doing on TT so I dropped it (love Red Hood, though). But this seems like a change that is absolutely unnecessary and wont really mean anything other than scrambling up Tim's history.
Also, I remember seeing Jim Lee say Batman had a 10 year timeline on twitter more than a few times, guess no one else got the memo.
It seems like Tim's origin is pretty much the same except that he called himself Red Robin the entire time, never Robin. Also, does anyone know who will be drawing RHATO now? I don't know if it will be the same now that Rocafort is gone.
I would take the view that what appears in Batman will take presidence over the whatever title Lodbell is on. In issue 1 of Batman on page 15 or 16 Tim Drake is identified as former Robin current Red Robin. So until it changed in the flagship title Batman I will go with what is written there.
Guideline, that is what it is...a GUIDELINE. The Five year GUIDELINE is just that...not an actual rule. I hardly see how its appropriate to use that idea with Tim Drake here and say he was never a Robin, because by that logic alone then Tim should have stopped being a Robin back in the 90s, but he still was. I don't know...I'm still not happy about the change and the logic behind all this is still lost on me, but I'm just "whatevah's" at this moment about it. It still just shows how ambiguous New 52 continuity is, with some things being taken out and other things being taken in.
You know when you see a character for the 1st time, it becomes "your" version of it? Tim Drake was that for me. I read Batman with Jason Todd, but reading A Lonely Place of Dying and seeing Tim figure out who Batman was made him cool. And he was the best Robin (in my opinion.) But to read that he never was a Robin, really bums me out.
@UltimateSMfan: I guess we're going to have to wait for the 0 issues. I think they will tell a bit more for Dick, Tim and Damien. I will note that the solicits for Teen Titans 0 says "how he went from future Olympic star and computer genius to Batman's third Robin." I guess nobody told Lobdell.
@Fantasgasmic said:
That's not the sound of heads exploding, it's the sound of people putting their wallets away. If you want to alter Tim's Robin continuity, I think it would be better to say that Bruce had previously tried to make sure people couldn't tell when there was a new Robin (Dick and Jason had worn the same costume, go with the old "Jason dyed his red hair black" thing) to ensure that "Batman and Robin can never die" kinda mindset in criminals. To that end, when Tim debuted wearing his all red costume, TIM thought of himself as "Robin" but other people (heroes, villains, the media, whatever) referred to him as "the new, RED Robin" and that THAT is the origin of the name. Because otherwise it's a kinda stupid, non-threatening name, and there's already a precedence of heroes with the name Robin.
This makes a lot of sense. He's still Robin, but wants to be a little original so gets a new suit. The rest of the world still recognises him as Robin but sees he's different to the previous two - although everyone would think there was only one - so they call him Red.
What a load of bull. If Tim had never convinced Bruce to take him on as Robin there would be no Robin for Damien to become. Lobdell's excuses are so weak. The New 52 has been in existence for less than a year and the man can't even keep continuity for 11 months. If you ask me there is a concerted effort to remove Tim from the Bat family. In the same way Wally West has been erased.
I actually think the whole Tim jumping straight to Red Robin shows that he isn't to be viewed as just another Robin clone, but rather shows how at the end of Red Robin how he is not Dick or Bruce but is his own man and has his own methods
i don't really see the big deal here. Tim still served as a "Robin" except he was known as "Red Robin" the whole time....the idea that he was more a partner than a sidekick makes sense as he actually figured out who batman was showing there is something "special" about him as compared to the other Robin's.
THIS MAKES SOOOOOO MUCH MORE SENSE TO THE TIM DRAKE CHARACTER!!!
I hated that Tim was just shunned from the Batfamily. AND that in the new continuity, it happened so fast. This idea that he ran as a sort of Second Batman or Minor Nightwing is awesome! His Robin Comic was pretty much about him running solo anyway. Making his own friends (Spoiler and veteran and Anarky). Making his own enemies (Cluemaster and co. Scarab. That teleporting kid...DODGE!). Even improving the tradition Robin costume (TWICE) and getting all his own Robin-themed gear and the Robin's nest instead of living off of what Batman and the Cave gave him like those before him.
I have to wait and see how it pans out, but this could be awesome. I was ready to drop all but Red Hood, but now i might stick it out with some of the other Bat titles with Tim in them. If hes gonna be awesome now...
@Fantasgasmic said:
That's not the sound of heads exploding, it's the sound of people putting their wallets away. If you want to alter Tim's Robin continuity, I think it would be better to say that Bruce had previously tried to make sure people couldn't tell when there was a new Robin (Dick and Jason had worn the same costume, go with the old "Jason dyed his red hair black" thing) to ensure that "Batman and Robin can never die" kinda mindset in criminals. To that end, when Tim debuted wearing his all red costume, TIM thought of himself as "Robin" but other people (heroes, villains, the media, whatever) referred to him as "the new, RED Robin" and that THAT is the origin of the name. Because otherwise it's a kinda stupid, non-threatening name, and there's already a precedence of heroes with the name Robin.
Hit the nail right on the head, and i'm going to go a little further and add a few things:
The main point why fans hate and will continue to hate this is because not only is it changing a key part of a person's history (Its like if you tried to say Dick was always Nightwing) but its a change that isn't needed. Its basically some dude just wanting to make Tim special so he pulls this crap. And the funny thing is, he comes off as if he has no concept of the Robin character at all. I've never been the biggest Tim Drake fan. There's only room in my heart for one favorite Robin (Dick Grayson) but even i'm pissed at this. And the picture from Batman # 10 up there is exactly why. Not only has it been mentioned numerous times that Tim was Robin, not only are this guy's excuses for those mentions lame, but Bruce put it perfectly.
"You share something---A red and green uniform of service that should be a bond between you all"
Each Robin shares the uniform, the R, the commitment to the cause. What then makes them special are the deeds they do and the actions they take while they wear said uniform. Lobdell is basically saying Tim wasn't special before and trying to throw this into his history, and as I said before its not necessary. Tim Drake has a MASSIVE fanbase, filled with people who love and respect his character. They don't respect him for being Red Robin, or being the 3rd Robin, or because he is Robin. They respect him because of the run he had while he was Robin. Dick Grayson Robin, Jason Todd Robin, and Tim Drake Robin are 3 completely different people. Its not the name on the uniform, its the person wearing the uniform that makes him special. Lobdell quite clearly doesn't understand this.
The Tim Drake reboot is the stupidest thing I have read in Quite awhile....."better known as Robin , but not actually Robin" D'oh!!
I can get behind a new take on Tim Drake.
I mean if what Scott is saying is 100% true, and I see no reason for him to lie, then it can be played off and be okay for the continuity of the comics and continue to make Red Robin an interesting and unique character.
ppl ppl LOL theres a fourth comic - was just re reading Teen Titans Annual #1 dont kno if anyone caught this yet,but on the second page itself the square bubble introducing tim drake reads, "Tim drake saw much in his time as robin,partner to batman....even before he took the identity of red robin and brought together the teen titans" so once again i ask WTH??!! i mean this kind of decision needed to be made at the time of the reboot,u cant set all this ground work in the new 52 itself and then suddenly after a year change things like this,damn!! anyway im still laughing after readin that page of the annual....
I'm really starting to hate this 5 year time line. That really is a short amount of time. Four Robins (Stephanie Brown doesn't seem to exist right now) and each only being active for only a year?! That just stinks!
Tim Drake already stands out, there is no need for this.
:/
Dang it, all of these changes are starting to get on my nerves! lol
i understand where the guy is coming from but there is no need to change Tim's origin. I am sure most of us fans would prefer it if it stayed the way it was before flashpoint.
That was a new facial recognition scanner Batman was trying out. I am confident Bruce worked out the kinks as time went on.
Best. Answer. Ever :)
Honestly I'm all for Tim going straight into Red Robin and setting him apart. I honestly could care less if his adventures as Robin are now different. I read the stories, I enjoyed them, now is time for a new set.
The only apart that is annoying is his explanations about the continuity errors that he is creating and they SUCK.
Oh btw I am excited Teen Titans is getting involved with the return of the Joker
He really needs to write scripts before letting the artist just draw an issue. A lot of reviewers say he is too wordy and I have to agree with them. He tries to fit in way too many words and it kind of kills the issue a bit. No shit Layman and Simone would rub their eyes with poisen ivy leaves before writing scripts his way.
@X35 said:
He's just jealous coz Tim Drake is a better Robin that Scott Lobdell will ever be.
...
That's a hilarious mental image.
What if there were writers who cosplayed to get into character?
i am more ok with the Red Robin thing now but it sounds like he is trying way to hard for such a small change. To aggravate the majority just to change his hero name for a past that will not get much flash backs to? It just doesn't make sense to me. IT would have been easier to just keep him as a "Robin"
With the way continuity is in Batman's time line makes no sense, people say Batman was around longer but that doesn't make sense either since Bruce became Batman at 26 at the earliest. If he's been around longer than the five year gap (Justice league #1 to present day Batman #1) Bruce would be in his 40s now which makes no sense since Bruce is suppost to be younger now than pre 52. Dc have screwed up they just won't admit it.
Damian being 10 WASN'T aged to 10 years of age as Batman and Robin #2 shows Damian as a 5 year old at least when he was put through his training with the League of Assassins.
also WHAT!?
He still essentially deciphers Bruce's secret identity (though, this is Bruce we are talking about here) -- he is still Batman's sidekick (though, maybe more of a partner) for a year or so between Jason and Damian. He just opts to not call himself Robin for reasons we see in the story.
To that end, I think Tim Drake fans can rest comfortably that most of the stories they've read remain canon -- even if they have to adjust their thinking to the way they remember those stories playing out.
Ok first things first, Tim didn't decipher Bruce as Batman he put two and two together as he was a Dick Grayson fan he worked out that Dick was Robin because he could do a quadruple somersault and only a few could do that in the world of gymnastics Dick being one of them thats how he worked it out when he saw footage of Dick as Robin doing the same move Dick did in the circus.
DC your timelines are shot due to the new 52, it makes things more complicated than before and I thought the new 52 was made to simplify things not complicate them.
Scott Lobdell, like most comic writers now a days, as an idiot who has no respect for the authors that has come before him and created and cared for the characters he so cavalierly alters and plays with. Tim, just like every other Robin that has come before and after, is already distinguished from the other Robins. Each one brought something new and continues that same legacy.
Dick is the standard. Every Robin will in some way shape or form be compared to him and their successes and failures will always be measured to his. He was the first Robin, but also the first to strike out on his own and prove that there is life after living under “the shadow of the bat”. He also pretty much proved that sidekicks can become heroes in their own rights. And, despite suffering a similar tragedy as what shaped Batman, unlike his mentor, he did not let it completely consume him. Out of all the Robins, it can be safely argued that Dick is the only one to develop a real life outside of his costumed exploits. Dicks is the bright side of Bruce, the one that harbors hope of something beyond the mission.
Jason is the lesson, both to Bruce and to other Robins. Jason is what happens when you let that rage consume you. It also shows Bruce what could happen if you do not properly train and maintain vigilance and discipline on the Robins. A wild card and a loose cannon, Jason knows right from wrong and is as capable as any other the others, but he lacks their overall finesse. He is the brute in an otherwise skill orientated set and embodies Bruce’s overall strength and, when necessary, vicious brutality.
Tim is the prodigy. He brought an unprecedented natural talent in just about everything, a natural detective, a natural fighter, a natural athlete, but (at the time) he did not share the need for vengeance of any of his predecessors. He is the only Robin who took up the mantle out of a genuine desire to help and because it was the right thing to do. Batman needed a Robin, and Tim proved more than capable. Out of all of them, he is probably the most well-rounded. And let’s not forget he was the first Robin to adopt a different uniform in the role. He embodies Bruce’s keen intelligence and desire to do what’s right.
Damien is the only one who lacks any real sort of originality aside from being Bruce’s legitimate son. He is the worst aspects of all the other Robins exemplified and he has not been in the role long enough to differentiate him in any other way. I’m sure he’ll develop something, but for now, he is just a self-entitled, arrogant little punk upset that all of Bruce’s ‘fake’ sons get far more respect than he does, but has done nothing to earn anything else. Guess that’s what makes him unique.
There is no need to ‘make Tim special’ by taking away is Robin status. Authors need to stop screwing around with established characters, honor their predecessors, and work with what’s given to them. They want to do something different? Make their own characters.
If this is a simple case of him wearing the same uniform and crest as robin, being called robin by everyone else (media and such) but not feeling that he himself was a robin (with robin being viewed as a sidekick to batman, and Tim viewing himself more as a partner of equal standing to batman) than i could buy that. But to say that he never was robin is kinda bull. He was refered to by the media and other heroes as Robin, he wore a simular costume to the other Robins (though it was all red and black) and the fought as a part of the dynamic duo as did the other robins. He may not consider himself a proper robin, but in actuaitly he was.
Other than that, yeah I've had complants about this whole "5 year time span" since day one. Batman fans can count robin and watch them age. Having 2 fully grown adult sidekicks, with one 16 year old one and one 10 year old one doesn't fit into the 5 year span. DC shot themselves in the foot when they published that idea. If they'd not mentioned how may years had passed since the darkseid attack or the first appearance of superman in metroplois they wouldn't have this problem. Leave the time with a vague "many years earlier" or "before" as they did before and we wouldn't have to worry about it. Unless of course it turns out that the whole 5 year thing is a plot point in the upcoming trinity wars (i mean Flash and Batman know that history was altered, as per the ending of Flashpoint) that will be altered afterwards i think that we need Rip Hunter to fix the already broken time span.
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