Comic Vine Review

50 Comments

Nightwing #14 - Die for Me

2

Lady Shiva and Nightwing battle it out in the latest issue of NIGHTWING.

The Good

It's always great to see one of your favorite supporting characters in a comic book; no question about that, so I can't say I wasn't excited about Lady Shiva's appearance in this issue. Having said that, my expectations for her appearance, her interaction with Nightwing and with how these events relate to the bigger picture are unclear; but I'll get into that later.

Overall I would say this is an average book. DeFalco does seem to take a few liberties with the characters and the amount of information that they know, but it isn't excessive. He does a solid job making Shiva look like a formidable opponent based on the dialogue that is exchanged mid-fight between She and Nightwing.

The Bad

I might be wrong but the dialogue in the beginning of the issue where Tony Zucco's daughter Sonia calls Dick to reschedule a meeting is eerily similar to dialogue we saw of hers in NIGHTWING #13. In fact, it is virtually the same.

Maybe I'm missing something but it felt like Lady Shiva's character was taking a lot of liberties. How did she know that Nightwing was a former Robin? That begs the question, also, does she know Nightwing's true identity? Does she know he is Dick Grayson beneath the mask? Or is she just basing her hypothesis about Nightwing's identity on the way he interacts with her in a fight?

Lady Shiva fans (myself included) were likely looking forward to her appearance in this issue, written by Tom DeFalco. The problem is, just like in Nightwing's last fight with Lady Shiva, nothing actually happens. She shows up, fights him, compliments him on his skills having improved, and then leaves. The question of where Shiva's fascination with Nightwing stems from is unclear and is not answered in this issue.

There is a moment that is really contradictory where Shiva aims to take out a specific character, but Nightwing manages to divert her aim. As a result, Shiva fires at her target and apparently, misses, leading her to curse Nightwing and call him a fool. The problem with the scene is what happens next. Nightwing implies he has forced Shiva to miss her shot, and Shiva replies by stating that she "never misses a shot." This moment contradicts the previous one where we see her cursing Nightwing.

The Verdict

Perhaps I am being more particular when it comes to this issue, but I had just hoped for more from this book. We saw a set-up in issue #13 last month by DeFalco, introducing Lady Shiva as an opponent to Nightwing. The problem is, why now and why Shiva? Just like their first fight, Shiva withdraws leaving Nightwing alive. Again, why? Was she hired to fight Nightwing? If not then what is her fascination with him? That's the first problem. Additionally, it doesn't seem like Shiva will be appearing again for a while, so what was the point of this issue and the last one? What purpose do they ultimately serve? I was left with a lot of questions about this issue of NIGHTWING and, unfortunately, not all of the great. It will be interesting to see if Kyle Higgins, upon his return to this series, will take from any of the events thats transpired in this issue.

50 Comments

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Babs: Nice review. I agree with alot of this. Sadly for me, I was so focused on A: Shiva making an appearances, and B: Whether or not she jobbed the fight, that alot of the questions you raised went right over my head initially. You touched on something though that I was wondering myself, the part where she apparently misses her shot. I dont know if its a contradiction or the writers attempt to be clever and try to hint at Shiva having an ulterior motive. I think the wording may be key here. At least for me, because I think Sonia's assistant is really Lady Shiva. So when she says, "fool, you messed up my aim." she could be referring to the fact that Robin's interference diverted her throw closer to Sonia then she intended. You can see pieces of hair actually sheered off. Might be a stretch but I'm holding out hope.

As far as how does Shiva know Nightwing is Robin, he kind of answers that. Even if it seems like a cop out.

Apparently his looks haven't changed that much (even though its suppose to have been several years?) between meetings
Apparently his looks haven't changed that much (even though its suppose to have been several years?) between meetings
Avatar image for johnnygat
JohnnyGat

1592

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By JohnnyGat

"Maybe I'm missing something but it felt like Lady Shiva's character was taking a lot of liberties. How did she know that Nightwing was a former Robin? That begs the question, also, does she know Nightwing's true identity? Does she know he is Dick Grayson beneath the mask? Or is she just basing her hypothesis about Nightwing's identity on the way he interacts with her in a fight?"

In NW #0 Dick as Robin fought Lady Shiva. She could have based it off on the way Nightwing moved that NW was the same Robin she fought in that ) issue. Especially considering an Assassin of her caliber one can safely assume that she can read body language very well. I mean how many masked ex-acrobats do you think Lady Shiva meets.

"Nightwing implies he has forced Shiva to miss her shot, and Shiva replies by stating that she "never misses a shot." This moment contradicts the previous one where we see her cursing Nightwing."

When we got the scene of her employer he made the comment that besides the people already assassinated by Shiva that the other part was an attack to the building. He never specified that Sonia had to die. LS may have called NW a fool because it still had the possibility of the blade landing where no one would notice and make the claim of an attack. But in the end she did what her employer wanted. Killed some guys and made an attack at the building to postpone whatever.

Avatar image for darcsteel
Darcsteel

24

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Darcsteel

fighting styles are like finger prints. No two are exactly the same. If you watched jet lee and jackie chan fight, both are excellent fighters and both have completely different styles. No doubt they could mimic each other but they would be more comfortable fighting in their own way. It isnt a stretch that a master assassin would be able to remember the fighting style of Batman's apprentice.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130

The main problem with this book is that it has its lead character, its title character, the character that has people coming back every month, come off as the chump of the issue. In the end Nightwing just gets his ass kicked by Shiva, and was utterly played by Penguin. U would think they'd made sure at least give the title character a decent display in his own damn book, but they did anything but. 

Avatar image for chaos_burn
Chaos Burn

1898

Forum Posts

919

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 3

Edited By Chaos Burn

wow, actually impressed Comicvine has given this a low rating, you guys normally gives the awful issues like 3 stars

Avatar image for smoothjammin
SmoothJammin

2707

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SmoothJammin

What the fudge.. why did Sara have to write this. She is a biased Shiva fan/NW hater(I heard on the podcast when you said you wished Dick Grayson was the Robin who deserved to die and not Jason.You made your intentions very clear Ms Lima ). Whatever. I read #14 and I gotta say I was a bit underwhelmed in spots but a two this issue certainly wasn't. I get that he needs help because he has alot on his plate right now I just don't like the idea of Dick getting too comfortable depending on Lucius/Babs/Tim whenever he can't make time to figure intel out on his own.

Yeah you can argue Batman does the same thing with Alfred but atleast he has his sh*t together 99.9% of the time so it doesn't matter. In Dick's case it's sloppy and maybe a little rushed. We saw enough of that with Dixon. I'm pretty sure Dick has his own supercomputer. Atleast he should, because a hero who lacks gadgets, money, transportation, a well armored, well equipped costume(something he even touched on in the issue) and follows up on false leads is theoretically not someone who will last very long in Gotham...riiight?.Dick asking Shiva who hired her out of desperation was also unbelievably asinine.

He's a highly trained detective, we shouldn't need him taking huge leaps of logic to figure things out. The art on some panels also wasn't wonderful. There was one instance where NW is swinging through Gotham on a grappling hook and his hair looks like an unproportional mop, what's worse--there are patches that aren't even shaded in! Admittedly it's cool that he's still in Gotham despite uncovering his roots to the Court of Owls and he's using this time to bring joy to Gotham through Amusement Mile. It speaks volumes of his integrity.

A few things. The little moment between Jimmy, Christina and Dick was heartwarming. This issue made me appreciate Dick's supporting cast a little more then I had. The small panorama shot of Nightwing's loft with doves fluttering outside helped me remember this was not simply another Batman book I was reading, it's Dick Grayson's..his world, in his element. Everything from the crimefighting in the daytime, electro escrima, and establishment of Amusement Mile as a bright beacon of hope for Gotham reminded me of how this was a pseudo-Superman/Batman hybrid we are suddenly dealing with. He's a very special character in that way. Thanks for the ride Tom DeFalco it was great having you. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130
@SmoothJammin: Ya, i gotta admit the vibe of the review came off as what did this issue do for Shiva. 
Avatar image for batwatch
BatWatch

5487

Forum Posts

274

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 238

User Lists: 1

Edited By BatWatch

I do not understand your confusion about why Lady Shiva fought Grayson, Babs. That was fairly well explained at the end of this issue.

Why now?

So Penguin could stop the SEC meeting and give himself time to hide his wrongdoings.

Why withdraw from the fight?

Why not? She seems to like Nightwing.

Was she hired to kill Nightwing?

No, the book clearly said that she was hired to kill that one SEC dude from issue 13 and to attack the building in order to stop the hearings. Penguin setup the fight between Shiva and NIghtwing as a bonus because if Shiva were captured, he would not have to pay the fee, and if Nightwing were killed, there would be one less vigilante in Gotham, but he never paid Shiva to kill Dick.

What is her fascination with him?

Well, that one was not answered, but I would assume it is the respect for a fellow warrior thing.

What purpose does it ultimately serve?

I'll give you that one. The issue did not really feel like it was leading anywhere.

For the BatWatch review with lots of pictures, check out the Nightwing page of BatWatch

For more news, reviews and commentary on the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

@SmoothJammin: .

I agree about your opinion regarding Amusement Mile and the interactions between his supporting cast. I'm hoping Higgins will make this a more central element of the plot in future issues.

For more news, reviews and commentary on the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

Avatar image for darkwingdan
darkwingdan

211

Forum Posts

15

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 1

Edited By darkwingdan

Dear DC, if you could please keep Tom DeFalco off this book in the future, that'd be great. The guy may have written a pretty solid Spider-man in the past, but Nightwing isn't Spider-man. Next time you want a fill-in writer, see if Chuck Dixon or Devin Grayson want to revisit the character.

Avatar image for sourcebreaker
sourcebreaker

80

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 2

Edited By sourcebreaker

Man... I was hoping this would be a good ending. The next issue should be great. Kyle Higgens has been working on it for a while now.

Avatar image for Trodorne
Trodorne

2773

Forum Posts

6416

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 58

User Lists: 15

Edited By Trodorne

Great review babs, this was not one of my favourite issues at all.

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

In the end Nightwing just gets his ass kicked by Shiva, and was utterly played by Penguin. U would think they'd made sure at least give the title character a decent display in his own damn book, but they did anything but.

Well he did have broken ribs. Plus its Shiva, of course he got his ass whooped. lol

Avatar image for krissyjump
Krissyjump

107

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Krissyjump

I actually thought this was a fairly decent issue. It was an entertaining read and the only real problem I had with it was that all of Shiva's lines sounded corny. That aside, I felt DeFalco did a great job of capturing Dick's voice, and even though I'm not a fan of his I'd have given this issue, at minimum, a solid 3.5 rating.

Avatar image for smoothjammin
SmoothJammin

2707

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SmoothJammin

I can understand how Shiva was able to instantly recognize Dick through body language, the fact that he's still alive is a courtesy and opens up the door to bigger things. Maybe she wants to fine tune his arsenal, prepare his skillset for something huge that's coming. Good things take time. Or she can't resist Grayson's swag ;) Anyone watch here watch boxing? I'll tell you what.. to the real aficionado's of the sport if you were to watch Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao spar there is a clear distinction in their respective styles. They can not be emulated and you instantly know who they are because of their demeanor and technique...even as the years go by. Call her a plot device, filler character idc, she served her purpose for now. Good for Nightwing though, Shiva had her hands full. Had his ribs not been injured I imagine he'd have taken her into even deeper waters. In my eyes, this was the calm before the storm.

To those suggesting Devin Grayson take on writing duties, she was responsible for making NW a supporting castmember in his own book and basically used him as a stepping stool for other characters like Tarantula and Slade. She caused Dick to stand idly by as Blockbuster was shot at point blank range. Turned him over to the mob in a cheesy villain arc and then threw him in the ravager costume immediately after. The infamous rape scene for crying out loud, Jesus.

Chuck Dixon is working on different projects and I personally don't think he has much left to offer Nightwing creatively speaking. Put your faith in DOTF, I say if that doesn't knock your socks off than you have a reason to stop following this fantastic series. Go back and reread issues 10-14(and 0) in one shot and see if the consistency and overall pacing of the story doesn't feel more fluid. Catch you on the rebound viners this turkey ain't going to eat itself.

Avatar image for smoothjammin
SmoothJammin

2707

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SmoothJammin

3/5 stars imo btw, I didn't know being a superficial art nazi granted you the luxury of bombing review scores. I think Shiva looks kick ass.

Avatar image for wessaari
wessaari

752

Forum Posts

61

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 62

User Lists: 7

Edited By wessaari

i really think you judged this issue way to severely, it was alot better than last and sets up a possible future for the two characters. Also, for all we know, this is actually Cass Cain. There were some problems, but they werent deserving of a 2/5

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130
@Gambler: So what if he had broken ribs, and so what if it was Shiva. Tim Drake has beaten Shiva, and hero's are suppose to overcome challenges. U would think they'd give a little better showing for the title character, because it him the reader are gonna be coming back for. Instead they have Shiva make him look like child, while simultaneously having Penguin make him look like a fool. It was crap, and Nightwing, the star of the show, came out the chump. He was utterly defeated.  
  
They use to this all the time in the last series. Using Nightwing as punching bag for whatever two-bit character of the month. 
Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

@Gambler: So what if he had broken ribs, and so what if it was Shiva. Tim Drake has beaten Shiva, and hero's are suppose to overcome challenges. U would think they'd give a little showing for the title character, beasue it him the reader are gonna be coming back for. Instead they have Shiva make him look like child, while simultaneously having Penguin make him look like a fool. It was crap.

Tim poisoned Shiva, he didnt try to beat her purely on martial arts prowess like Nightwing. In fact, despite being poisoned Shiva broke Tim's ribs with one shot. She outclasses Nightwing in combat by a considerable amount regardless of whether or not its his title book. Using that logic Nightwing should beat Superman as long as its in the Nightwing title :P Its cool if you think its crap, thats up to you. But sometimes there is more to a book then simply making the title hero always win. There has to be drama, adversity, odds to overcome. The better the villains look and the more they win will only help make Nightwing look that much better when he finally does defeat them. A hero is only as cool as the villains he faces.

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@wessaari said:

Also, for all we know, this is actually Cass Cain.

I said this somewhere in another thread, or something similar. New 52 Shiva has never been referred to as Sandra Woosan. Like you said, it could possibly be Cass Cain but I highly doubt it. It would be pretty badass but I'm not holding my breath. I actually think a more likely choice (in the event that Shiva isnt actually Sandra Woosan) would be Carolyn Woosan, her sister.

Avatar image for wessaari
wessaari

752

Forum Posts

61

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 62

User Lists: 7

Edited By wessaari

@Gambler: Ya, it is something that she said in the issue. Identities or reputations are just devices to decieve. The Lady Shiva he faced when he was young, might not be the same Lady Shiva. She is described as really young, but she barely looks different from the 0 issue. The thing is that she might be the next line in the legacy of Lady Shiva, and with what she said at the end, these two are not done

Avatar image for theelusivenewreader
TheElusiveNewReader

53

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Seems to me that she did not intend to kill Sonia and was afraid that Nightwing's interferiance would make her hit Sonia instead of the door next to her as intended. But she did hit the door/(wall whatever) hince "I never miss"

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@wessaari said:

@Gambler: Ya, it is something that she said in the issue. Identities or reputations are just devices to decieve. The Lady Shiva he faced when he was young, might not be the same Lady Shiva. She is described as really young, but she barely looks different from the 0 issue. The thing is that she might be the next line in the legacy of Lady Shiva, and with what she said at the end, these two are not done

New 52 versions of Sin? That would be a trip to. I agree its long from over. I actually think whoever she is its obvious she doesnt want to kill Nightwing, she wants to mentor him in her own twisted way.

Avatar image for madeinbangladesh
MadeinBangladesh

12494

Forum Posts

53

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 59

User Lists: 172

Edited By MadeinBangladesh

i liked this book up until issue #10. It just got so boring.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130
@Gambler@Gambler said:

@Godlike130 said:

@Gambler: So what if he had broken ribs, and so what if it was Shiva. Tim Drake has beaten Shiva, and hero's are suppose to overcome challenges. U would think they'd give a little showing for the title character, beasue it him the reader are gonna be coming back for. Instead they have Shiva make him look like child, while simultaneously having Penguin make him look like a fool. It was crap.

Tim poisoned Shiva, he didnt try to beat her purely on martial arts prowess like Nightwing. In fact, despite being poisoned Shiva broke Tim's ribs with one shot. She outclasses Nightwing in combat by a considerable amount regardless of whether or not its his title book. Using that logic Nightwing should beat Superman as long as its in the Nightwing title :P Its cool if you think its crap, thats up to you. But sometimes there is more to a book then simply making the title hero always win. There has to be drama, adversity, odds to overcome. The better the villains look and the more they win will only help make Nightwing look that much better when he finally does defeat them. A hero is only as cool as the villains he faces.

"odds to over come", see that right there is exactly my point. Im not saying Nightwing should just beat Shiva because its Nightwing, but the problem was there was no overcoming. They present Shiva as this undefeatable challenge, and ultimately they just have her beat on him, all while he tells us all how good she is as she beats on him. I mean Nightwing sure as hell didn't come out looking better here. What does he, the title character, have to show for out of this story. How did Nightwing benefit from this story? It didn't make him more interesting, nor did it add anything to his character. Made him look inferior.  Again he was utterly defeated. Not only by Shiva, but by Penguin too. A hero is only as cool as the villains he faces, but not if the hero just acts as the punching bag for the villains. In the end all it did for Nightwing is established him as inferior. He overcomes nothing, nor does he even accomplish anything. Shiva comes off as this ultimate assassin, Penguin the criminal mastermind, and Nightwing the fool. 
Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

"odds to over come", see that right there is exactly my point. Im not saying Nightwing should just beat Shiva because its Nightwing, but the problem was there was no overcoming. They present Shiva as this undefeatable challenge, and ultimately they just have her beat on him, all while he tells us all how good she is as she beats on him. I mean Nightwing sure as hell didn't come out looking better here. What does he, the title character, have to show for out of this story. How did Nightwing benefit from this story? It didn't make him more interesting, nor did it add anything to his character. Made him look inferior. Again he was utterly defeated. Not only by Shiva, but by Penguin too. A hero is only as cool as the villains he faces, but not if the hero just acts as the punching bag for the villains. In the end all it did for Nightwing is established him as inferior. He overcomes nothing, nor does he even accomplish anything. Shiva comes off as this ultimate assassin, Penguin the criminal mastermind, and Nightwing the fool.

You sound as if this is a one and done deal. I'm not talking about one comic, one arc, one story, one fight.....I'm talking about all those things spread out through a natural progression of stories. This arc shouldnt be wrapped up in a single issue and who knows what will happen next time Shiva and Nightwing square off. Let it play out over time. That way it actually builds history, builds character, builds everything. So Nightwing got beat up by Lady Shiva when he had broken ribs, he still showed extreme determination and will by defiantly refusing to submit. As far as the Penguin goes that storyline obviously hasnt played out yet either. At least wait and see what happens next issue before you proclaim Nightwing was outsmarted by Penguin. Not only that but there was more going on then just his fight with Shiva and the few panels Penguin showed up on (and crapped his pants when Jokers name was dropped) so lets not completely proclaim Penguin as being a badass in this issue. Nightwing gets plenty of combat shine in the opening when he pwns the Tiger Claws. He benefits from the character development and insight into how he thinks during extreme moments of adversity. Again, you dont have to like it, I'm really not trying to change your mind. You were looking for a better combat showing and thats cool. I'm just saying there were some other elements that readers such as myself may have been paying attention to rather then if Nightwing was made to look like a supreme badass. Maybe next issue.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130
@Gambler said:

@Godlike130 said:

"odds to over come", see that right there is exactly my point. Im not saying Nightwing should just beat Shiva because its Nightwing, but the problem was there was no overcoming. They present Shiva as this undefeatable challenge, and ultimately they just have her beat on him, all while he tells us all how good she is as she beats on him. I mean Nightwing sure as hell didn't come out looking better here. What does he, the title character, have to show for out of this story. How did Nightwing benefit from this story? It didn't make him more interesting, nor did it add anything to his character. Made him look inferior. Again he was utterly defeated. Not only by Shiva, but by Penguin too. A hero is only as cool as the villains he faces, but not if the hero just acts as the punching bag for the villains. In the end all it did for Nightwing is established him as inferior. He overcomes nothing, nor does he even accomplish anything. Shiva comes off as this ultimate assassin, Penguin the criminal mastermind, and Nightwing the fool.

You sound as if this is a one and done deal. I'm not talking about one comic, one arc, one story, one fight.....I'm talking about all those things spread out through a natural progression of stories. This arc shouldnt be wrapped up in a single issue and who knows what will happen next time Shiva and Nightwing square off. Let it play out over time. That way it actually builds history, builds character, builds everything. So Nightwing got beat up by Lady Shiva when he had broken ribs, he still showed extreme determination and will by defiantly refusing to submit. As far as the Penguin goes that storyline obviously hasnt played out yet either. At least wait and see what happens next issue before you proclaim Nightwing was outsmarted by Penguin. Not only that but there was more going on then just his fight with Shiva and the few panels Penguin showed up on (and crapped his pants when Jokers name was dropped) so lets not completely proclaim Penguin as being a badass in this issue. Nightwing gets plenty of combat shine in the opening when he pwns the Tiger Claws. He benefits from the character development and insight into how he thinks during extreme moments of adversity. Again, you dont have to like it, I'm really not trying to change your mind. You were looking for a better combat showing and thats cool. I'm just saying there were some other elements that readers such as myself may have been paying attention to rather then if Nightwing was made to look like a supreme badass. Maybe next issue.

U understand this was a fill-in arc right, and not the regular creative team? This story line is played out. The Penguin and Joker tease was a lead into the Batman back up. Nighwing got utterly defeated by Shiva, and was utterly played by Penguin. Nightwing shown extreme determination and will, when? When he was passed out on the floor, when he was completely ineffective against his age Shiva and in the end was foolishly played like a fiddle by Penguin? And Penguin storyline continues in the Batman back up, as far as for Nightwing. Ya, i think its safe to say thats done. Next issue starts his tangle with the Joker by the regular creative team.   
The Tiger Claws were no name goons, the real obstacle was Shiva, and that ended with him past out on a roof top, accomplishing nothing, and being pretty much laughed at by the Penguin. There was no character development, at least nothing that was positive, and what he think in extreme moment of adversity is evidently "OMG, how did u get this good. Ur my age." 
I was looking for a better showing period. I don't read Nightwing because he's a unresourceful fool, but unfortunately that exactly how he was portrayed. A naive amateur, in awe over how good his opponent is as she kicks his ass. Im not asking for him to look like a supreme badass, just to look like Nightwing. I mean this this look like a guy who was Batman for the last year to u. Someone who can't even find a way to be competitive against Shiva, and is easily manipulated by the Penguin. Hell did this even look like the same guy that even when battered and bruised was able to take down two Talons, one right after the other.  
Avatar image for j_flo
J_Flo

4

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By J_Flo

I have utmost faith in Higgins reviving this series with his portion of the Death of the Family arc

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

  @Godlike130 said:

U understand this was a fill-in arc right, and not the regular creative team? This story line is played out. The Penguin and Joker tease was a lead into the Batman back up.

? I think maybe you're missing the point of my last post. The arc may be over but just like references from Nightwing #0 as well as Batman #13 (and a few other Nightwing issues) re-surfaced in this issues, unanswered questions will be revisited down the road in future Nightwing issues. Like I said, its building history. Death in the Family also extends to the Nightwing titles so the Penguin/Joker tease can and most likely will, play out in said title (if not more).

@Godlike130 said:

  Nighwing got utterly defeated by Shiva, and was utterly played by Penguin.

Hahahaha yeah I know, I read it the first 10 times you wrote it. I dont know how else to reply to it. Like I said, what did you expect? She's Shiva and he's Nightwing. Not Batman, not Sensei, not Prometheus, he's Nightwing. He's going to get owned by Shiva all day everyday with or without broken ribs. I applaud the writing staff for knowing enough about him not to have him even stand a chance against her. "But its his title he should be shown holding his..." no, no he shouldnt lol. To be honest he should have never even landed a shot on her. So what if he was played by Penguin? This isnt Danny Devito, this is New 52 and bravo for trying to give one of the more well known yet highly disrespected villains in the Bat-Rogues gallery some shine. Eventually Nightwing will get even. Thats the glory of having your own title, time is on your side. He'll have plenty of opportunity to redeem himself against Penguin. You do understand that this is the New 52 version of Nightwing right? He isnt Batman level detective, he isnt Batman's near martial arts equal, he's gonna suffer some losses.

@Godlike130 said:

  Nightwing shown extreme determination and will, when?

During the entire fight. His dialog. I can crop a couple examples for you though
 

No Caption Provided



No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
@Godlike130 said:

  When he was passed out on the floor, when he was completely ineffective against his age Shiva and in the end was foolishly played like a fiddle by Penguin?

Yes yes, we know, he got beat by Shiva and outsmarted by Penguin. Already addressed these two issues. But its the underlined comment that leads me to believe you may have simply looked at the pictures and not read the comic. She actually makes a comment that is intended to suggest that they are in fact "not" the same age. Not that it would even matter if they were. Same age means what? She could have started training earlier, had better teachers, trained longer (You know Nightwing has a life outside of being Nightwing?) Maybe Shiva doesnt. maybe thats all she does is fight and train. Age is moot. To be honest, Penguin getting over on Nightwing has been overly inflated in this discussion. It was some elaborate scheme that left Nightwing chasing his tale, and in effect he got over on Shiva as well. New 52 Penguin obviously isnt to be underestimated.
@Godlike130 said:

And Penguin storyline continues in the Batman back up, as far as for Nightwing. Ya, i think its safe to say thats done. Next issue starts his tangle with the Joker by the regular creative team. 

Oh they announced they're going to stop publishing Nightwing?  No? Then what I think its safe to say is that Penguin and Nightwing will cross paths again sooner rather then later. Death in the Family crosses over to the Nightwing title to ya know ;)
 
@Godlike130 said:

  The Tiger Claws were no name goons, the real obstacle was Shiva, and that ended with him past out on a roof top, accomplishing nothing, and being pretty much laughed at by the Penguin.

Still shows him displaying techniques impressive enough to take out multiple armed goons. You said you wanted him to be shown overcoming challenges, he did. Sorry dude, you're just going to have to accept (or not I guess) that Nightwing is not in Shiva's class. Never has been, never should be, and hopefully never will. Shiva wasnt the obstacle, she was the bench mark, the measuring stick. And he didnt pass out he actually fought it off which leads directly back to my point about "will and determination."  He accomplished what he believed was saving Soina's life. None of us know what exactly happened there and what Shiva's true target/aim was. So we all got played and laughed at by the Penguin. Wasnt just Nightwing.
 
@Godlike130 said:

There was no character development, at least nothing that was positive, and what he think in extreme moment of adversity is evidently "OMG, how did u get this good. Ur my age." I was looking for a better showing period. I don't read Nightwing because he's a unresourceful fool, but unfortunately that exactly how he was portrayed. A naive amateur, in awe over how good his opponent is as she kicks his ass.

If you read the comic and didnt find any character development and have simplified the dialog to a state of inaccurately quoted quips then I cant really do much about that. But seriously, just go back and re-read the dialog. You'll see that its Shiva who offers more praise about Nightwing then the other way around. 
 
@Godlike130 said:

  I mean this this look like a guy who was Batman for the last year to u. Someone who can't even find a way to be competitive against Shiva, and is easily manipulated by the Penguin.


In New 52 I dont think Nightwing was Batman for a year was he? I dont believe he was.

@Godlike130 said:

  Hell did this even look like the same guy that even when battered and bruised was able to take down two Talons, one right after the other.  

Maybe not, but different circumstances create different outcomes. Shiva wasnt trying to kill Nightwing and the Talons were. He was already injured going into the fight against Shiva and she took him by surprise were as against the Talons (at least to start) he wasnt injured and took the first Talon by surprise.  Either way, I am sorry that you feel a character you like was mishandled. We've all been there. Luckily I'm a Shiva fan and not a Nightwing fan. Could be why I enjoyed the comic more then you lol
Avatar image for entropy_aegis
entropy_aegis

21706

Forum Posts

327

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 7

Edited By entropy_aegis

I thought the fight between Dick and Shiva was kinda bland and repetitive,Penguin actually came off as pretty damn clever.I think he's the character who has benefited the most from the new-52,he's getting more respect from the writers.

This arc was kinda pointless,I agree with Godlike.Nightwing did'nt get anything out of this,with that said Shiva should beat him comfortably in a fight.

Avatar image for smoothjammin
SmoothJammin

2707

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SmoothJammin

@Godlike130 said:

I don't read Nightwing because he's a unresourceful fool, but unfortunately that exactly how he was portrayed. A naive amateur, in awe over how good his opponent is as she kicks his ass. Im not asking for him to look like a supreme badass, just to look like Nightwing. I mean this this look like a guy who was Batman for the last year to u. Someone who can't even find a way to be competitive against Shiva, and is easily manipulated by the Penguin. Hell did this even look like the same guy that even when battered and bruised was able to take down two Talons, one right after the other.

This is what's got me bugging. I don't want a repeat of the Dixon/Devin era where we get a hero who you can never bet on to win the big struggles that matter. I don't know how many times I've read "Bonehead move, Grayson" over the years in a Dixon book or even how many bonks on the back of the head poor Nightwing endured while written like an accident prone klutz. Basically Dixon wrote Dick as the athletic nice guy jock, Babs as an overachieving gf while Tim was treated a genius(Mary Sue).

IRL the Dick Grayson of old would have strayed dangerously close to having Alzheimers/brain damage in spite of his age. I wish writers kept in mind that Nightwing survived as Batman for an entire year as you mentioned. I'm not suggesting Dick already has the reputation as a circus oaf, what I'm saying is that it's developing early and that's not good. Even though it's a little premature to jump the gun, I believe if the Shiva/Penquin issue isn't resolved in the upcoming arcs it becomes a blemish in terms of his legacy as an A-Class hero.

In Nightwing's defense.. he fared alot better this time, with broken ribs mind you, than when he charged Shiva in Knightfall. That was brutal.

Avatar image for batnight
batnight

27

Forum Posts

100

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By batnight

Liked the issue and why people hate Shiva i do not know, i think she's pretty kick ass.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130

 @Gambler said:      

In New 52 I dont think Nightwing was Batman for a year was he? I dont believe he was.
 


 He indeed was, but this issue certainly didn't reflect that. But ur a " Shiva fan and not a Nightwing fan.". Explains a lot quite frankly. Like u say, u  applaud them for having him not even stand a chance against her. Which is quite frankly bull, and it makes Nighwing, their title character, the main draw of the book, seem inherently lesser. 
 Really its Shiva who not in Nightwing class. Shiva is a two bit character, and Nightwing one of their most popular. Its Nightwing who's gonna bring readers back next month. But they use him for her expense, and its it him who comes out looking lesser coming out of the story, out of her league and foolish. U would think they'd want to try and elevate their titles stars, have them grow and positively develop. Not just show them as incapable. Guess not though. Nightwing sure as hell didn't get anything positive out of this encounter, or even this story. All it did really was serve to reintroduce Shiva, at his expense.  
 
And honestly it shouldn't have even been Shiva here, nor should Shiva have been introduced into his origin. Should have been Deathstoke. They could have then reintroduce their dynamic into the New 52. This would have been a good opportunity to reestablish that.  In my opinion anyway. But instead we get this weird version of Shiva, who previously never had much of anything to do with Nightwing before. 
Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

He indeed was, but this issue certainly didn't reflect that.

I'm actually interested in this if you wanted mind explaining some....When did he become Batman in the New 52? If he was that creates alot of holes in several Bat-Characters history. As Batman Nightwing discovered Stephine Brown was the new Batgirl instead of Cass Cain, we already know this never happened so right there the history of Nightwing being Batman has changed. I'm just curious if Nightwing being Batman in New 52 has been confirmed or referenced somewhere? I'd like to read up on it.

@Godlike130 said:

But ur a " Shiva fan and not a Nightwing fan.". Explains a lot quite frankly. Like u say, u applaud them for having him not even stand a chance against her. Which is quite frankly bull, and it makes Nighwing, their title character, the main draw of the book, seem inherently lesser.

And you're a Nightwing fan. So? Doesnt change the fact that Nightwing isnt in Shiva's class. And when I say that I'm talking about established skill not who's book it is, thats already been addressed. The notion that characters need to job for the title character is somewhat silly. You call it bull, I call it staying true to the character. Shiva one shotted Nightwing in Pre-New 52 (temporarily) before going on to almost kill Conner Hawke. This was a much better showing against her then he's previously had so I'm not really sure how being consistent is bull....No one is disputing that people read Nightwing for Nightwing lol. That doesnt mean he should win or be elevated to contend with people outside his skill range. Its like saying he should stand a chance against Batman just cause its his book. No, doesnt, nor should it, work that way.

@Godlike130 said:

U would think they'd want to try and elevate their titles stars, have them grow and positively develop. Not just show them as incapable. Guess not though. Nightwing sure as hell didn't get anything positive out of this encounter, or even this story. All it did really was serve to reintroduce Shiva, at his expense.

They do, just not at the expense of someone with greater skill. Using your logic Doomsday never should have killed Superman, and Deathstroke never should have pwnd Batman. Characters get elevated in someone elses title all the time, especially when introducing a character, this is nothing new. Let me ask you this, are you done reading Nightwing now because he was made to look foolish by Shiva? I even read in one of your other Nightwing posts that you admit he is less skilled and not on the same level as Pre-New 52. So it really shouldnt be a surprise that he would get ownd in early issues, he hasnt even reached his full potential yet.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130

@Gambler said:

@Godlike130 said:

He indeed was, but this issue certainly didn't reflect that.

I'm actually interested in this if you wanted mind explaining some....When did he become Batman in the New 52? If he was that creates alot of holes in several Bat-Characters history. As Batman Nightwing discovered Stephine Brown was the new Batgirl instead of Cass Cain, we already know this never happened so right there the history of Nightwing being Batman has changed. I'm just curious if Nightwing being Batman in New 52 has been confirmed or referenced somewhere? I'd like to read up on it.

Nightwing #1. Can't miss it, i believe its even in the previews.

And again, im not saying that Nightwing should have just beat Shiva, im saying that Shiva shouldn't have just beaten Nightwing. The notion that that the title character needs to job for a guest characters they are introducing is just as silly, and damaging to the title character and the title itself. We seen in before in his last series, and the character and title suffered because of it. As the title character he should be able to see positive growth in his own title, and be able to rise to contend with challenges and beat odds. Or at the very least not just look like a chump. Not just lose because his opponent is undefeatable, out of his league. That doesn't add anything to the title character, it takes away. Shows him as incapable.

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

And honestly it shouldn't have even been Shiva here, nor should Shiva have been introduced into his origin. Should have been Deathstoke. They could have then reintroduce their dynamic into the New 52. This would have been a good opportunity to reestablish that. In my opinion anyway. But instead we get this weird version of Shiva, who previously never had much of anything to do with Nightwing before.

I actually agree with that. Her previous connection was not with Nightwing, but with Tim. The Robin she actually trained and named Little Bird. But for whatever reason they seemed to have taken that history and strangely adapted it to Nightwing. Introducing Deathstroke would have been badass, but if you think Shiva whooped some @ss what do you think they would have had Deathstroke do o_O

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

Nightwing #1.

Good looking out.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130

@Gambler said:

@Godlike130 said:

And honestly it shouldn't have even been Shiva here, nor should Shiva have been introduced into his origin. Should have been Deathstoke. They could have then reintroduce their dynamic into the New 52. This would have been a good opportunity to reestablish that. In my opinion anyway. But instead we get this weird version of Shiva, who previously never had much of anything to do with Nightwing before.

I actually agree with that. Her previous connection was not with Nightwing, but with Tim. The Robin she actually trained and named Little Bird. But for whatever reason they seemed to have taken that history and strangely adapted it to Nightwing. Introducing Deathstroke would have been badass, but if you think Shiva whooped some @ss what do you think they would have had Deathstroke do o_O

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

@Gambler said:

@Godlike130 said:

And honestly it shouldn't have even been Shiva here, nor should Shiva have been introduced into his origin. Should have been Deathstoke. They could have then reintroduce their dynamic into the New 52. This would have been a good opportunity to reestablish that. In my opinion anyway. But instead we get this weird version of Shiva, who previously never had much of anything to do with Nightwing before.

I actually agree with that. Her previous connection was not with Nightwing, but with Tim. The Robin she actually trained and named Little Bird. But for whatever reason they seemed to have taken that history and strangely adapted it to Nightwing. Introducing Deathstroke would have been badass, but if you think Shiva whooped some @ss what do you think they would have had Deathstroke do o_O

Yeah I've read that. De-powered Deathstroke doesn't really impress me. But if you wanna debate who would win between Slade and Nightwing meet me over in the Battle Forum and we can discuss it there.

As for the topic of discussion, after reading over Nightwing #1 I'm even more convinced that issue 14 is on track. In issue one he gets embarrassed worse then he did against Shiva by a introduction character. Now the issues that follow help wash that stain off (which is what I said will happen with the Penguin situation) but for that one issue he got ownd. His first appearance in the New DCU and he gets his ribs broken and beat down.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130

@Gambler: Yes Nightwing get surprised at fist, but in the end overcomes. He doesn't just lay there going "gee, ur letting me live", in the end he was capable. The issues that follow don't continue this story. This filler arc is done.

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

@Gambler: Now read #2

I did. Now read the part of my last post where I address it and how it goes back to my original point about a single issue. We can look back "now" and because of issue 2 and issues that follow, his utter ass whooping in issue one doesnt look as bad. I said the same thing about issue 14 and how we will more then likely be able to look back at some point and have the same feelings. If Nightwing ends up destroying Shiva or even defeating in her a future issue then 14 wont even matter. Just like issue one (where before we get to read issue two, looks like Nightwing was utterly destroyed). The Shiva/Nightwing history is far from over so complaining about a single issue in which he was man handled by a superior fighter is moot.

@Godlike130 said:

And again, im not saying that Nightwing should have just beat Shiva, im saying that Shiva shouldn't have just beaten Nightwing. The notion that that the title character needs to job for a guest characters they are introducing is just as silly, and damaging to the title character and the title itself. We seen in before in his last series, and the character and title suffered because of it. As the title character he should be able to see positive growth in his own title, and be able to rise to contend with challenges and beat odds. Or at the very least not just look like a chump. Not just lose because his opponent is undefeatable, out of his league. That doesn't add anything to the title character, it takes away. Shows him um as incapable.

lol this is twice you've gone back and edited/added to your original post after I've responded. Nightwing losing to Shiva isnt jobbing, its natural. No one is saying he shouldnt show growth, his title doesnt revolve around a single issue though ;) as such he can lose, be defeated, even humiliated, and evolve as the series progresses. You make it sound like he never overcomes the odds, contends/competes, or rises to challenges simply because he got beat by a character created to be a better fighter then 95% of the DCU's street leveler fighters all is lost. I dont know where this idea that the title character can never be made to look bad comes from, but it happens in every single comic. And yes, if and when the title character goes up against someone out of their league they should be defeated. Otherwise you end up with Black Panther arm barring Silver Surfer type ish and how does that benefit anyone? And Nightwing is incapable in terms of beating Shiva. Doesnt matter if its his title, Batman's, Teen Titans, Green Arrrow, Batgirl, Superman, or any other comic outside an alternate universe/what if type issue. Nightwing < Lady Shiva

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130 said:

The issues that follow don't continue this story. This filler arc is done.

You're not understanding me. The issues that follow dont have to continue this story or arc. I'm saying Shiva and Nightwing will meet again and have more then just this one confrontation. I feel like we're just going around in circles.

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130

@Gambler said:

Nightwing < Lady Shiva

Ya, Nightwing < Lady Shiva, LoL. Lady Shiva is barely more than a nobody, after this she goes right back to obscurity from where she came. So excuse me if i don't agree that a lesser character like Shiva is just out of Nightwings league, and Nightwing should only be capable of getting his ass kicked against her. So what if she a better fighter, its normal for guys like Nightwing, and even Batman, to go up against enemies that are stronger, or faster, or better in some way. That was actually my point in the Deathstroke images i posted. Not that he can beat him in a fight, but that even against the odds he can still overcome. So even if Deathstroke is the better fight, which he is, it doesn't mean Nightwing then should just by defeated, and then laughed at as a fool after.

The idea that the title character should not be made to look bad in his own title comes from logic. The title character is what draws readers to said title. This doesn't mean he should just beat whomever and whatever, this is not what im saying, but he sure as hell shouldn't look bad. Thats the last thing they should want to do. The majority of people who read Nightwing, read Nightwing because they actually like Nightwing, or is interested in Nightwing. So it defeats the purpose of the book to tell a story that makes him look bad. The majority of readers don't follow Nightwing to see Nightwing look bad, and it certainly gives no incentive to new readers to follow a book about a character that looks bad.

So goody for Shiva that she gets to come out looking like the Ultimate Assassin, and Penguin the criminal mastermind, but its not Shiva or Penguin that sells this book. So quite frankly its just dumb to make Nightwing, the main draw of the book, look bad for the expense of an obscure character like Shiva that goes right back into obscurity, or even a random bad guy who really has no importance in the book. Leaving Nighwing with quite frankly nothing out of this.

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130: We're just going to have to agree to disagree at this point. Good chat though.

Shiva fans 1, Nightwing fans 0 :P

Avatar image for godlike130
Godlike130

33

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Godlike130

@Gambler: Fair enough, good chat.

Avatar image for the_ghostshell
The_Ghostshell

84302

Forum Posts

11204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

Edited By The_Ghostshell

@Godlike130: It really was. I'm still shocked that Nightwing being Batman crossed over to the New 52. I'm excited cause it opens the possibility that Cassandra Cain will actually, or is actually, part of the new continuity. Unless they're just gonna white wash that in which case I would be disappointed.

Avatar image for regas13
Regas13

266

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Regas13

Sonia is lady shiva

Avatar image for stronger
Stronger

5051

Forum Posts

186

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By Stronger

Amazing Nightwing cover!

Avatar image for romojk979
romojk979

19

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By romojk979

"Maybe she wants to fine tune his arsenal, prepare his skillset for something huge that's coming. Good things take time." I agree that everyone's dislike of Lady Shiva's interest in him is wrong. Obviously Batman, the world's greatest detective, feels the need to take on an apprentice. So why couldn't Lady Shiva? Even if she is just preparing him for an up-coming arc, she's still human under it all. That means she is allowed to have weak spots for certain other characters.

Lady Shiva's new look is sick, and there was no hiccup in the writing when she battled Nightwing. Lady Shiva says she never misses. Then she tells Nighwing he messed up her shot. Anyone who was half paying attention could put together the fact that Shiva MEANT TO MISS and use a scare tactic to end the hearings. Even an assassin doesn't kill unless they must.

As for Penguin, Nightwing is meant to be imperfect. It's part of his M.O. He makes mistakes and falls for things that Batman wouldn't. Thats what makes him so enjoyable.

Over all I thought this to be a good issue. I agree with the notion that Shiva could also be Cass Cain. I hope it is. Sure this issue did nothing to further any forward-moving story, but it set up some loose ends that could really be pulled together nicely come issues #18-22.

Avatar image for smoothjammin
SmoothJammin

2707

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By SmoothJammin

@Regas13 said:

Sonia is lady shiva

You weren't supposed to tell! -__-

Avatar image for nightwing1105
Nightwing1105

7

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Edited By Nightwing1105

I would have to agree with the reviewer on this one.  I didn't see a whole hell of a lot happening in this issue.  The two-part arc just seemed like filler to get to the "Death of the Family" tie-in.   
  
Overall, I have been content with the series, but I think DC needs to figure out what they are going to do with the character.  Obviously, based on my username, I am a fan of the character, but since the reboot it seems that they are not sure what to do with Dick/Nightwing.  Yes, he is a part of the Bat-family, but he needs to distance himself from Bruce/Batman and Gotham City.  I would love to see him relocate and become a bit more independent.  With Dick rebuilding Amusement City there is little chance of him changing his locale.   
 
So, I look forward to the "Death of the Family" tie-in and Kyle Higgins's return to the book.  After that, let's see Dick take a "vacation" from Gotham and interact with some other DCU characters....