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Civil War II #4

3

A verdict is handed down, and heroes get ready to start fighting each other.

Civil War II is the current big event in the Marvel Universe. We've seen some big deaths and plot twists, but it's still not quite enough to keep us completely glued to the series. We've seen this sort of superhero drama before. That being said, if you are looking for some major hero vs. hero fighting, you're about to get quite a bit of that.

With the murder of Bruce Banner, we find out what Hawkeye's verdict is. The unfortunate thing about this revelation is it wasn't too difficult to figure out based on the recently released Marvel NOW! catalogue. Hawkeye is shown on the cover of the upcoming Occupy Avengers series. There should be some big fallout over this. This decision could set up some pretty crazy precedent in the future. Whether or not it's used remains to be seen. We also can't help but wonder how long until the murdered character returns somehow. After all, we did see the return of Doc Samson in the zero issue with no concrete explanation on his resurrection other than, "I'm better now."

The main crux of the issue is Tony Stark's revelation on how Ulysses' powers work in predicting the future. This really draws the line in the sand despite having seen Tony and Carol Danvers approaching different characters to see whose side they'd go on in several tie-in issues. We're four issues in, five if you count the zero issue, but we won't be getting the big Civil War action until next issue.

David Marquez's art is top notch, as usual. His visuals, along with Justin Ponsor's colors really sets the tone and atmosphere in each scene. You can see Tony's struggle with his discovery on how Ulysses' powers work along with the recent deaths of his friends. You can feel the energy brewing as the action is about to be unleashed upon us.

Civil War II hasn't quite been the big event we've wanted. It might be the fact that we're constantly seeing heroes fighting each other. This difference of opinions should be a major problem but it doesn't quite live up to our expectations. It's understandable we need to have a big conflict, but Carol Danvers' reaction and how she carries herself is feeling a little out of character. The issue's saving grace is David Marquez's art and Justin Ponsor's colors. We're finally at the point where the pieces for a big fight are in place. Will it be enough to continue reading the series?

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Outside_85

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Edited By Outside_85

In summary this issue could be explained as: "How Captain Marvel is wrong... and stupid for still blindly walking down this path."

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Mooty_Pass

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I honestly don't know what to make of this issue.

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superior_prime_maybe

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So Bendis finally saw winter soldier....

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BR_Havoc

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So where do you think this event will rank on the worst ever list? Age of Ultron has always been my tops for terrible events with Original Sin being close behind it but this one might take the cake ( Then again Marvel seems to want to change that with Inhumans vs X-men)

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Battle123axe

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In summary this issue could be explained as: "How Captain Marvel is wrong... and stupid for still blindly walking down this path."

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TheExile285

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@br_havoc said:

So where do you think this event will rank on the worst ever list? Age of Ultron has always been my tops for terrible events with Original Sin being close behind it but this one might take the cake ( Then again Marvel seems to want to change that with Inhumans vs X-men)

what makes AoU and OS so bad? Never read them so that's why I ask.

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BR_Havoc

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@br_havoc said:

So where do you think this event will rank on the worst ever list? Age of Ultron has always been my tops for terrible events with Original Sin being close behind it but this one might take the cake ( Then again Marvel seems to want to change that with Inhumans vs X-men)

what makes AoU and OS so bad? Never read them so that's why I ask.

Age was just a mess, It was a Superhero snufffest set in an alternate universe and you could tell that Marvel had little faith in it since it was delayed over 6 months and then did not have crossovers into it. Orignal Sin was just a boring event that's villain revile was silly and lead to a status quo that we still have had no reason given for and it has been what 3 years?

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TheExile285

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Bl00dwerK

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I'm glad I'm not reading this crap. 3/5? On Comic Vine? It's gotta be bad.

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dondave

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@outside_85 said:

In summary this issue could be explained as: "How Captain Marvel is wrong... and stupid for still blindly walking down this path."

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Mark_Stephen

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Edited By Mark_Stephen

Clint really, really, really, really owes Mockingbird an apology over the whole "Avengers don't kill" thing. By the way when did the US Constitution get changed? I feel sorry for Carol Danvers fans, she's getting the Bendis treatment big time. For that matter isn't marvel supposed to be toning down the sexist stuff? That cover puts her breasts front and center.

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Cagnazzo82

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Edited By Cagnazzo82

@br_havoc said:
@theexile285 said:
@br_havoc said:

So where do you think this event will rank on the worst ever list? Age of Ultron has always been my tops for terrible events with Original Sin being close behind it but this one might take the cake ( Then again Marvel seems to want to change that with Inhumans vs X-men)

what makes AoU and OS so bad? Never read them so that's why I ask.

Age was just a mess, It was a Superhero snufffest set in an alternate universe and you could tell that Marvel had little faith in it since it was delayed over 6 months and then did not have crossovers into it. Orignal Sin was just a boring event that's villain revile was silly and lead to a status quo that we still have had no reason given for and it has been what 3 years?

Yes, essentially there was no rhyme or reason to Age of Ultron (the comic series, not the movie).

And ultimately there was no payoff in the end either.

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casper4690

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I absolutely hated how Carol was written in this issue. Damn you Bendis.

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Cagnazzo82

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Clint really, really, really, really owes Mockingbird an apology over the whole "Avengers don't kill" thing. By the way when did the US Constitution get changed? I feel sorry for Carol Danvers fans, she's getting the Bendis treatment big time. For that matter isn't marvel supposed to be toning down the sexist stuff? That cover puts her breasts front and center.

Written by Bendis Clint essentially has no morals (or perhaps even common sense for that matter).

Might as well be an alternate universe Clint we're reading at this point.

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Mark_Stephen

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I absolutely hated how Carol was written in this issue. Damn you Bendis.

He does seem to be returning her to the fascists Carol that she was in cw1. It's gonna take an amazing writer to repair the damage.

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ianbareilles

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@br_havoc: I don't know I felt original sin was one of the more stronger events marvel has done it was defiantly better than axis which was a mess.... I never understood why rick remember couldn't make axis work considering his amazing work with uncanny X-force and uncanny avengers at least he made up for the mess that was axis with rage of ultron.

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ianbareilles

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Honestly though My hope is regardless of how villainous Carol is written in civil war ii I really hope this doesn't deter any fans of captain marvel especially Carol Danvers from continuing to support her and her series and won't diminish their love for Carol Danvers as a character.

I really like how in her solo series with the civil war ii tie ins that they're portraying and writing her in a very sympathetic tortured soul angle that's something sadly bendis won't bother to explore in the core civil war ii series which is sad because in the core civil war ii story it's really not a fair portrayal of the character.

The ultimates and a-force also has done a great job in portraying Carol in a very sympathetic and human angle.

I'm glad she-hulk isn't dead though but I hope they explain the markings on her arms.....

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deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3

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The X-Men have been victims of profiling and capricious visions of the future. Why would they side with Carol and S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Bendis is so dumb.

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TheFizz

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Carol is written like shit in this. Beautiful art, interesting concept, but completely horrible follow through. This is by far the worst issue so far. Buckle in though, Bendis probably has more bullshit up his sleeve.

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ianbareilles

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@sprior93: well Carol has a history with the X-men so that could be the reasons why.

Basically this entire event is written to make Superheros fight their teammates and friends basically like most previous events it's drama for the sake of drama hero vs hero for the sake of hero vs hero.

And to make Tony the good guy and to make Carol basically Tony from the first civil war.....

It's not the first time though for Carol unfortunately at many times during the first civil war when she sided with Tony and on various occasions in time runs out which was the lead up to secret wars she'd be written as an authoritarian yet when said major event and overarching story arc was over she'd be written in a more sympathetic way angle and be written in the way a female superhero should be written.

It's something that happens to many characters every now and then.

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casper4690

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@thefizz: @mark_stephen: agree with both. She's written off as annoying and highly irrational. At this point , I'm only reading this book because the art is A+

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BR_Havoc

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@br_havoc: I don't know I felt original sin was one of the more stronger events marvel has done it was defiantly better than axis which was a mess.... I never understood why rick remember couldn't make axis work considering his amazing work with uncanny X-force and uncanny avengers at least he made up for the mess that was axis with rage of ultron.

I can't speak on Axis since I was burnt out by then and skipped that event. I felt Secret Wars has been Marvel's strongest event in last 20 years. Not so much the tie ins but the core story was fantastic

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Mark_Stephen

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Honestly though My hope is regardless of how villainous Carol is written in civil war ii I really hope this doesn't deter any fans of captain marvel especially Carol Danvers from continuing to support her and her series and won't diminish their love for Carol Danvers as a character.

I really like how in her solo series with the civil war ii tie ins that they're portraying and writing her in a very sympathetic tortured soul angle that's something sadly bendis won't bother to explore in the core civil war ii series which is sad because in the core civil war ii story it's really not a fair portrayal of the character.

The ultimates and a-force also has done a great job in portraying Carol in a very sympathetic and human angle.

I'm glad she-hulk isn't dead though but I hope they explain the markings on her arms.....

Well that didn't work for me in the first cw. Once she beat Julia up in front of her daughter I stopped liking the character of Carol Danvers at all and really haven't looked back. As I pointed out in previous threads Carol before cw was so desperate to get her superhero career going she hired a publicist, after cw she got a SHIELD strike force, helicarier, was made head of the Avengers and she got all of this as reward for hunting down, beating up and throwing other heroes into prison for life. KSD did her best and Carol has a group of devoted fans but to me when I read the character I remember how she basically sold out. Back when she still had a secret identity she guarded it from the government zealously, but when she lost that...

At any rate the last thing that anyone at marvel is going to tell Bendis is 'no' when it comes to what he does with characters. She'll probably survive this, the group of fans is devoted as I mentioned, but I doubt very much this is going to get her any new fans.

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wowlock

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As if I expected better. Character assassination continues ! It is just sad that Carol is getting destroyed like this when her movie is coming up. Not to mention she is using Shield as his police force to gather up citizens... Yea that is so HEROIC !

Not to mention why would ANY X-MEN would side with Carol ? I mean they literally live with future profiling EVERY FREAKING DAY !

And of course Hawkeye walks and every average idiot is happy about it in the country. I really hope they won't make it look like it is a victory in Hawkeye's perspective. It was murder. WHILE THANOS IS LOCKED UP AND THEY DON'T KILL HIM ?! How does that work ? He literally killed Rhodey and he is locked somewhere, plotting his escape while Banner did nothing wrong and he gets murdered...while the killer walks.

I really hope Jennifer kick Carol's ass and not join her...I REALLY DO.

Seriously, screw this stupid event.

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dondave

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Edited By dondave

@ianbareilles said:

Honestly though My hope is regardless of how villainous Carol is written in civil war ii I really hope this doesn't deter any fans of captain marvel especially Carol Danvers from continuing to support her and her series and won't diminish their love for Carol Danvers as a character.

I really like how in her solo series with the civil war ii tie ins that they're portraying and writing her in a very sympathetic tortured soul angle that's something sadly bendis won't bother to explore in the core civil war ii series which is sad because in the core civil war ii story it's really not a fair portrayal of the character.

The ultimates and a-force also has done a great job in portraying Carol in a very sympathetic and human angle.

I'm glad she-hulk isn't dead though but I hope they explain the markings on her arms.....

That was not the case in the last Ultimates issue. She basically told Blue Marvel to shut up about any concerns he had for Ulysses.

The marks on her arms are probably left by the shrapnel of Rhodey's missile.

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dondave

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@wowlock said:

As if I expected better. Character assassination continues ! It is just sad that Carol is getting destroyed like this when her movie is coming up. Not to mention she is using Shield as his police force to gather up citizens... Yea that is so HEROIC !

Not to mention why would ANY X-MEN would side with Carol ? I mean they literally live with future profiling EVERY FREAKING DAY !

And of course Hawkeye walks and every average idiot is happy about it in the country. I really hope they won't make it look like it is a victory in Hawkeye's perspective. It was murder. WHILE THANOS IS LOCKED UP AND THEY DON'T KILL HIM ?! How does that work ? He literally killed Rhodey and he is locked somewhere, plotting his escape while Banner did nothing wrong and he gets murdered...while the killer walks.

I really hope Jennifer kick Carol's ass and not join her...I REALLY DO.

Seriously, screw this stupid event.

To be fair they probably not physically able to kill him.

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TheKinfing

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In summary this issue could be explained as: "How Captain Marvel is wrong... and stupid for still blindly walking down this path."

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blackcobalt

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The writing is abominable (as expected for Bendis) but the art, OH MY GOD! I loved the scene with Danvers talking to She-Hulk and She-Hulk getting angrier and angrier after the verdict.

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Tony_Shark

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I loved how the Guardians are supposed to even things out and yet Iron Man still has Thor on his side. Bendis is an idiot.

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@wowlock said:

Seriously, screw this stupid event.

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owie  Moderator

Pretty hard to understand Carol's point of view. But as to Tony's statement that his team obviously outgunned the original version of Carol's team? I dunno about that, looked pretty close to me.

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HighAccuser

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Awful crossover

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igilistr

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Well that didn't work for me in the first cw. Once she beat Julia up in front of her daughter I stopped liking the character of Carol Danvers at all and really haven't looked back. As I pointed out in previous threads Carol before cw was so desperate to get her superhero career going she hired a publicist, after cw she got a SHIELD strike force, helicarier, was made head of the Avengers and she got all of this as reward for hunting down, beating up and throwing other heroes into prison for life. KSD did her best and Carol has a group of devoted fans but to me when I read the character I remember how she basically sold out. Back when she still had a secret identity she guarded it from the government zealously, but when she lost that...

At any rate the last thing that anyone at marvel is going to tell Bendis is 'no' when it comes to what he does with characters. She'll probably survive this, the group of fans is devoted as I mentioned, but I doubt very much this is going to get her any new fans.

Thats pretty much same like with me, except i didnt cared about Carol at all. But then then first Civil war came and Carol become the most hated Marvel charaacter for me. Realy, i dont understand why Carol had anny fans after what she did there? Or why somebody even speak to her. Frankly, only organization where Carol could find anny place after this is SHIELD and those are defacto supervillains (Ps. In my Headcannon SHIELD are bads and Carol is their co-leader.)

If you ask me, Big Moroon Bendis shold be forbiten to even stay near anny comic.

Wait a minute, now i just got idea why Carol have anny fans: People like villains. Just look at Star wars, everybody lives Vader, me not so much. Or Loki in Avengers. So, as real SW geak, Carol just jumped into it. And aperrently it wast so hard cause i have recently discovered that:

-Carol is an alcoholic who regularly falls off the wagon with no care for the consequences.

-She is an abusive authority figure who gets righteously pissed off whenever someone refuses to follow one of her orders.

-She does prefer cheap sex with friends whom she can then disregard to serious relationships.

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AtheistKnowledge

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This event is garbage....

I loved how the Guardians are supposed to even things out and yet Iron Man still has Thor on his side. Bendis is an idiot.

So? Iceman and Dr.Strange are more dangerous on Tony's side then female Thor is. On the other hand Carol has BM and Spectrum. Honestly Angela alone from the Guardians can give female Thor a good fight, the whole of Guardins would stomp her.

I mean yea Bendis is an idiot, but he is an idiot with a history of lowballing the real Thor, let alone this female replacement.

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illmatic4177

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Respect the hell out of Comicvine, but this is why I never go by reviews. Loving this series so far.

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Mooty_Pass

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@sprior93: Because Carol Danvers Guilt Trip Storm and the rest of the X-Men thus why she calls upon them for help. (Don't know why there barely friends)

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Edited By phillip33

@atheistknowledge: idk man, I think marvel is trying to portray this Thor as the powerhouse that classic Thor used to be, minus the hax... Has strange been impressive in his solo run?

Meh, never liked Carol, this just cements it for me.

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phillip33

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AtheistKnowledge

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@phillip33: Apart from her PIS showing against Odin she hasn't done much of anything really, i mean she lost to Regent and stalemated Annhilius for hours without beating him, real Thor would have stomped the same Annhilius. She really hasn't done anything much of actual worth. Haven't been reading the series myself but i have heard great things and apparently he is back to being pretty hax.

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phillip33

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@atheistknowledge: meh true, but I'm thinking she's gonna get some decent feats coming up InThe shiar war and cw2 and they keep talking her up..

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Outside_85

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@owie said:

Pretty hard to understand Carol's point of view. But as to Tony's statement that his team obviously outgunned the original version of Carol's team? I dunno about that, looked pretty close to me.

I think it has less to do with the Guardians, though Angela has proven to be a grade A ass kicker... but also when the Ultimates (with Blue Marvel) and a bunch of the more powerful X-Men (like Jean the Plothole and 'Take me to Limbo' Magik) come out on her side.

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phocracker

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@mark_stephen: They didn't spice up her boobs. She's in a normal superhero pose. Is that sexist to you??

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kgb725

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igilistr

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@sprior93 said:

The X-Men have been victims of profiling and capricious visions of the future. Why would they side with Carol and S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Bendis is so dumb.

Youre right, it make completly no sence at all. Big Moroon Bendis shouldnt be alowed to even come close to comics, more les write them.

Or why would somebody even side with Carol and SHIELD? She is totaly insane fascists who gets righteously pissed off whenever someone refuses to follow one of her orders and SHIELD are defacto goverment sancioned villains. Damn, Carol would be prfect leader of SHIELD. Heh, somebody here once sayd that only diference between Hydra and SHIELD are uniforms.

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wowlock

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@igilistr said:
@sprior93 said:

The X-Men have been victims of profiling and capricious visions of the future. Why would they side with Carol and S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Bendis is so dumb.

Youre right, it make completly no sence at all. Big Moroon Bendis shouldnt be alowed to even come close to comics, more les write them.

Or why would somebody even side with Carol and SHIELD? She is totaly insane fascists who gets righteously pissed off whenever someone refuses to follow one of her orders and SHIELD are defacto goverment sancioned villains. Damn, Carol would be prfect leader of SHIELD. Heh, somebody here once sayd that only diference between Hydra and SHIELD are uniforms.

Have you read the new Avengers' latest issue where a crazy Cyborg Shield agent went so over the top that he is gonna use a damn WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION on A.I.M.

These are the guys Carol use to ILLEGALY detain citizens on a MATHEMATICAL HUNCH as Tony explained clearly. If you can't stop yourself even after learning that...for PRIDE , then you are no different than a villain. At least Villains doesn't hide behind 'being on the right side'' or '' saving people '' all the while destroying free will and freedom of choice.

I mean just look at Ms. Marvel's latest issue and tell me how it is not a prison camp. And when Kamala asked Carol to stop those ''prevantive groups'' that act like self-rightous thugs, Carol said Kamala is in charge of them and should keep them on the side of law....basicly washing her hands of the situation.

After losing Rhodey, she become to obsessed with Ulysses' visions and not to fit lead or command anything.

And who IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD BRING ANYONE LESS THEN SUPER-HUMAN ENDURANCE LEVEL GUYS TO FIGHT FREAKING THANOS ?! Even Tony , IRON MAN , would at least use Hulkbuster level stuff so he won't die from Thanos' breeze and yet they brought Rhodey in with his basic armor that even Techno ninjas can easily defeat.

There is no logic to these events and I cannot take it.

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AtheistKnowledge

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@phillip33: Maybe, maybe not. I doubt she will ever be on par with Odinson. I never put too much faith in writers/editors talking up the character. Alonso(executive editor) straight up came out and said Cho Hulk has the most raw power out of any Marvel hero, Amadeus himself repeats how he is the strongest one there is every 2-3 issues but he hasn't done anything of worth, nothing that puts him close to Banner Hulk.

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Lvenger

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Edited By Lvenger

So Carol is an authoritarian idiot who is going by the old excuse abused by a corrupt authority that the end justifies the means, what a surprise. I'm not surprised I haven't found anyone online, either a user or a comic journalist who actually supports Carol's side in the conflict. At least there were some reasons to be sympathetic towards Tony's and the Pro Reg side in the original Civil War. I can't believe this CW has me defending virtues of the original.

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TDK_1997

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This has been the best issue so far and it is still barely getting a 3 star rating in my book. The writting is bad and the whole confrontation between the heroes is a big joke. Bendis has gone bad on a whole new level.

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Battle123axe

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@atheistknowledge: well to be fair cho does have bruce's powers, and he has the potential to be as strong as bruce.

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