Comic Vine Review

60 Comments

Batman and Robin #29 - The Hunt for Robin: Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Review

2

Batman teams up with Aquaman to find the body of Damian.

The Good

Batman teams up with Aquaman to take on some clone in order to get Damian body back. This story is pretty dang cool and feels like a really solid adventure. This is something fans will want to continue reading, even if this issue wasn't their particular cup of tea. While this book reads more of a Batman-centric tour of the DCU, Peter Tomasi keeps it fun.

On the art side of things, there are some problems with Patrick Gleason, but he also puts out some amazing work. One page in particular looks beautiful, featuring Batman running down a hallway, punching a few guys out. It's four panels and by far one of the stand-out pages this week in comics. Gleason does well with establishing shots that will really stick with the reader, hours after they've put the book down.

The Bad

So, Titus sneaks on board the ship with Batman, but there's no real point. We see him in the opening for a few pages and then again, in one panel, at the end. That's it. He's not a part of the book aside from that. Is that something we're going to see in the next issue? One would have to assume so.

The Batman/Aquaman relationship is pretty non-existent in other DC books, aside from JUSTICE LEAGUE, so seeing them together is pretty cool but at the same time, it feels unnecessary. Any time anything takes place underwater, Aquaman has to be there. The reason he's there, from his side, makes sense (finding out why whales are screaming); however, the reason these whales are screaming is pretty ridiculous and makes for a silly plot point, which then leads to Aquaman realizing he can use his powers to defeat the bad guys. All-in-all, Aquaman's existence in this issue serves no real good purpose other than the fun of seeing these two leaguers working together.

Aquaman doesn't really look like Aquaman. Sure the blonde hair and orange scales are there, but his face if huge. He looks like a bodybuilder, which is in pretty big contrast to the version from AQUAMAN which is much slimmer in the face and upper-body.

The Verdict

While the overall story of what Batman is trying to achieve in this story is the best part of the issue, the rest of it falls flat. The Aquaman team-up feels a bit pointless and way too coincidental. He also doesn't really look like Aquaman, but more like a beefed-up version of the New 52 version of Arthur Curry. While there are a lot of problems with this overall issue, the larger story is incredibly intriguing and worth the reader; however, I cannot recommend this issue.

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Avatar image for dud317
Posted By Dud317

If someone chooses to buy or not buy a book based on a review, it's likely that the person trusts the reviewer and has found they share similar tastes. This is the exact purpose for a review.

Personally, I only read reviews after I've read the book because I've formed my opinion on the book as a whole and wish to be as impartial as possible every week.

When a book is favored more than it may deserve I don't see you guys accusing them of furthering sales like its a 4-color payola scheme.

I personally respect the opinion of all reviewers, and I've been reading their comments so long, I can usually tell who reviewed it based on their use of words. But that's where it stops for me. If I'm disappointed, it's by the book, not the review.

Avatar image for mickeymayhew
Posted By mickeymayhew

it fell flat for me too

Avatar image for detective38
Posted By detective38

Regardless of how much I dislike aquaman the emotional excahange between batman and ras alone made this issue worth reading

Avatar image for tdk_1997
Edited By TDK_1997

I don't understand how this issue got only 2 stars.The issue wasn't anything special or perfect but it wasn't that bad either.I liked the dynamic between Arthur and Bruce and the action was pretty good in the issue.The only flaw is that there almost no big story rather than big fight between everybody.

Avatar image for snarkybits
Posted By snarkybits

Disagree with me all you want. That's fine. Art is subjective. Even critique the critique. That's cool too.

Just don't be a dick about it. It's a review. It's not like I set your house on fire.

lol!!!

Avatar image for fallschirmjager
Posted By Fallschirmjager

After having Reis and Pelletier draw him for the past 2+ years...this Aquaman art is just ugly.

Avatar image for xescapetheliesx
Posted By XescapetheliesX

With how rare 2 star reviews are on this site you expect a book that receives one to be really bad but this book was nowhere near bad.

There was a lot of fun action and the art was what we've come to expect of Gleason. Yes, art is very subjective but there is an expectation of a certain level of consistency when we come to a site every week to read the reviews.

Avatar image for killingjoke3230
Posted By KillingJoke3230

2 of the all time greats , in 1 of the worst comics I have ever read. It was a struggle to get to the last page.

Avatar image for saren
Edited By Saren

The book got 2 stars because there are 2 mega hit stars in this book, that being Batman and Aquaman.

You say this like Titus isn't a star. Or cooler than Aquaman.

Avatar image for themantisshrimp
Edited By TheMantisShrimp
Avatar image for k4tzm4n
Posted By k4tzm4n

@k4tzm4n: haha, what is Mat's midi-chlorian count?

Loading Video...

Okay, I think I've used the maximum amount of videos I can use in one thread.

Moderator
Avatar image for themantisshrimp
Posted By TheMantisShrimp

@k4tzm4n: haha, what is Mat's midi-chlorian count?

Avatar image for illmatic4177
Edited By illmatic4177

I have not read it yet, and I usually not that critical so I may have rated it higher. But I think the only responsibility he has is to give his honest opinion.

Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
Posted By Jonny_Anonymous

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

So a few people aren't going to pick it up big whoop. People know by now what reviewers like so if there tastes match they can accurately judge whether they will like it or not. There is no need to go around and white knight a Batman book (that you haven't even read yet) just because you think a mob opinion is more valid than an individuals.

That's what everyone said ever right before DC canceled their favorite book. I'm not saying Batman and... has any danger of being cancelled, but it's pretty frustrating seeing the amount of people who won't read it now. I'm not white knighting so much as shedding light on the truth (please take that less seriously than I'm afraid you're going to :P). It's not that I think a mob opinion is more valid, quite the opposite actually. I think the mob opinion is invalidly made up in reaction to the individuals' opinion. Now, said individuals' opinion is completely valid...if he kept it solely as his own. But speaking for the website, the community, and giving the book an official Comic Vine verdict is a little different. He has different responsibilities as a public reviewer, and needs to understand the weight his opinion carries.

And notice how I haven't said a positive thing about the book. I'm not acting like I've read it, I'm dissecting a seemingly unjustified set of complaints.

So are you saying he should compromise his review because of the expectations of others?

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
Posted By k4tzm4n

do you really think that this one review has the power to influence the sales of a book

Loading Video...

Replace "my" with "Comic Vine's" and voila! Joke!

Moderator
Avatar image for themantisshrimp
Edited By TheMantisShrimp

@jaken7: I was never under the impression nor insinuate you thought it was in trouble of being cancelled. I am wondering if you think Comicvine's review has the capacity to alter the sales of a Batman book to much of an extent. I do not mean alter enough to cancel. Your comment I was responding to describes people taking Mat's opinion too seriously but the only evidence of that is a small handful of comments. Again that number relative to the total book sales is virtually nothing.

Avatar image for jaken7
Posted By JakeN7

@jaken7, do you really think that this one review has the power to influence the sales of a book that is about Batman to a large extent? I'm sure there is some proportion of people who consider reviews when buying books but of those how many people use a single review as a determining gauge of whether or not they will buy or not buy it. Do you really think that the small handful of people who commented that they will no longer buy the book because of the review is that many people relative to the amount who will buy it? Without some kind of survey and or large scale stats its fairly presumptuous of you predict how this review will affect sales, especially when we are talking about Batman sales.

Did you read past my first sentence? Because I clearly wasn't serious about it being cancelled, or its sales being affected in any tangible way. While every sale counts sure, this isn't going to affect the book's livelihood in the long run.

Avatar image for jaken7
Posted By JakeN7

Disagree with me all you want. That's fine. Art is subjective. Even critique the critique. That's cool too.

Just don't be a dick about it. It's a review. It's not like I set your house on fire.

I'm burning though! AAGGGHHHH!

You kinda set this book's house on fire though...

...'cause you flamed it.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for themantisshrimp
Edited By TheMantisShrimp

@jaken7, do you really think that this one review has the power to influence the sales of a book that is about Batman to a large extent? I'm sure there is some proportion of people who consider reviews when buying books but of those how many people use a single review as a determining gauge of whether or not they will buy or not buy it. Do you really think that the small handful of people who commented that they will no longer buy the book because of the review is that many people relative to the amount who will buy it? Without some kind of survey and or large scale stats its fairly presumptuous of you predict how this review will affect sales, especially when we are talking about Batman sales.

Also I'm a huge Batman fan but after reading the last arc I cut this from my pull. It's certainly not bad but I was not very engaged in the story. Batman is a tough market right now because there is so much competition.

Avatar image for jaken7
Posted By JakeN7

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

So a few people aren't going to pick it up big whoop. People know by now what reviewers like so if there tastes match they can accurately judge whether they will like it or not. There is no need to go around and white knight a Batman book (that you haven't even read yet) just because you think a mob opinion is more valid than an individuals.

That's what everyone said ever right before DC canceled their favorite book. I'm not saying Batman and... has any danger of being cancelled, but it's pretty frustrating seeing the amount of people who won't read it now. I'm not white knighting so much as shedding light on the truth (please take that less seriously than I'm afraid you're going to :P). It's not that I think a mob opinion is more valid, quite the opposite actually. I think the mob opinion is invalidly made up in reaction to the individuals' opinion. Now, said individuals' opinion is completely valid...if he kept it solely as his own. But speaking for the website, the community, and giving the book an official Comic Vine verdict is a little different. He has different responsibilities as a public reviewer, and needs to understand the weight his opinion carries.

And notice how I haven't said a positive thing about the book. I'm not acting like I've read it, I'm dissecting a seemingly unjustified set of complaints.

Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
Posted By Jonny_Anonymous

@jaken7 said:

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

So a few people aren't going to pick it up big whoop. People know by now what reviewers like so if there tastes match they can accurately judge whether they will like it or not. There is no need to go around and white knight a Batman book (that you haven't even read yet) just because you think a mob opinion is more valid than an individuals.

Avatar image for illmatic4177
Posted By illmatic4177

I swear Batman fans are the most sensitive fans on earth, this was his opinion. Get over it.

Avatar image for jaken7
Edited By JakeN7

@jonny_anonymous: Jonny, Jonny, Jonny. I'm not taking away Mat's right to have an opinion, I'm pointing out that people take his opinion seriously, and it matters a lot when people are being turned off this book in droves because of said opinion. That has less to do with Mat and more to do with the people so easily influenced by a review, but it's a problem nonetheless. That's the only reason I'm saying anything. Read through the comments and see for yourself how many people aren't reading this because of a poor review score. If anybody needs to grow up it's them, but until they do so, this review is a terrible reflection of this book's actual quality. End. Of. Story.

Avatar image for z1co80
Edited By z1co80

Some of the junk this site/reviewers gives five stars is ludicrous and giving this 2/5 is every bit as ludicrous.

Although the reviewer is entitled to his opinion even if i think he is way off the mark.

Avatar image for Iceslick
Edited By iceslick

@k4tzm4n: The issue was actually good for me at least. I would have given a 3 or 3.5. I guess @inferiorego it just being the typical Mat...according to his tweet today it's him being drunk, Lol.

The art I believe was great and I like the relationship between Aquaman and Batman. It's just what they did with the clones was pretty stupid. I'm not sure if Mat agrees with me on this.

Avatar image for lordofthenorth
Posted By LordoftheNorth

wait 2 stars? come on the book was fun the only things really wrong with it is that its a really fast read and at no point did Aquaman shout "OUTRAGOUS" i also liked how well they worked together they never agrued once about who was the leader or any of that nonsense that makes up 100% of their dialog in Justice League

Also Aquaman looks fine i dont know why that bothers you so much certain characters look different depending on the artist just look at batman and superman some times they look like gaint roid monsters and others they look like teenagers

Avatar image for kennybaese
Posted By kennybaese

While I think that not liking the way that Arthur looks in this book is totally valid, I think I'll just attribute his look in this book to Gleason's art style more than anything. I personally liked the beefier look, but then I've been watching a bunch of Brave and the Bold on Netflix lately, and Aquaman is built like a bruiser there too. Gleason's art in general takes pretty hard swings. Either it's drop dead gorgeous or pretty weird looking.

I'm just glad that this book is still doing the good work of connecting Morrison's run with the rest of the New 52 Batman continuity and continuing the story a bit. This was one of the weaker issues, but I still adore this book, flaws and all.

Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
Posted By Jonny_Anonymous

@jaken7 said:

It's got a 9/10 on Newsarama.

I'll update later with more scores.

Or you could grow up maybe? These reviews don't exist to validate your opinion, they exist as away for the reviewer to get across his. It doesn't matter in the slightest if every single review on the face of the earth said it was the best book ever, if someone doesn't like it then they don't like it. End. Of. Story.

Avatar image for kennybaese
Posted By kennybaese

@saren: You might want to throw some of that stuff under a spoiler tag. If Mat felt the need to talk around it in his review, I'd consider it a spoiler.

Avatar image for professornightmare
Posted By ProfessorNightmare

I'm confused by this. I usually really respect and agree with Mat's review's but this one seems really lazy. The positives in the first paragraph completely contradict his own review score and his con's are pretty weak con's.

I agree that this comic was somewhat weaker than other Batman and "blank" issues. I'm disappointed that Tomasi wasted an opportunity for some deeper character moments between Bruce & Arthur, but the bombastic action element to it was pretty awesome.

Avatar image for inferiorego
Posted By inferiorego

Disagree with me all you want. That's fine. Art is subjective. Even critique the critique. That's cool too.

Just don't be a dick about it. It's a review. It's not like I set your house on fire.

Staff
Avatar image for maruko101
Posted By maruko101

IMHO the only saving grace of this issue is Aquaman. I liked this title a lot when Damian was alive, but certain pages in this issue makes me so sick and furious. With all the BS the five stages of grief they've put Batman through since last year and now this, I think I'm on the verge of dropping this title.

Avatar image for jasoninthewoods
Posted By Jasoninthewoods
@jaken7 said:

Oh please. Your complaints were nitpicky and your review is turning people away from the book. I doubt your low review score is justified, but the damage is done.

People can be turned away from a Bat book?

I didn't think that was humanly possible. ;)

Avatar image for themantisshrimp
Posted By TheMantisShrimp

Yeah Mat, the only possible way you could not like this is that your drunk. The alternate possibility that Aquaman's presence in this title did not resonate with you, even when additionally considering this title has arguably lost some of its magic since Damien's death, is totally and completely 100% improbable.

Avatar image for dagmar_merrill
Edited By dagmar_merrill

People really care about this book.

Avatar image for mak13131313
Edited By mak13131313

First off Mat, I totally respect you. I respect what you do and in no way do I think that your job is easy. That being said, I have to respectfully disagree with your 2 star rating. I enjoyed this issue. Now if I was reviewing this (which I have never wrote a review and probably never will) I would have gave it a 3 and a half stars. Seeing as you don't use half stars I would round it up to 4. I hope I didn't piss you off or anything. And if I did, sorry.

Avatar image for jaken7
Edited By JakeN7

It's got a 9/10 on Newsarama.

I'll update later with more scores.

Avatar image for jaken7
Posted By JakeN7

Go home Elfring, you're drunk

Avatar image for hushofthewind
Posted By HushoftheWind

The book got 2 stars because there are 2 mega hit stars in this book, that being Batman and Aquaman.

Avatar image for brione
Posted By Brione

Only 2 stars for this is crazy. This is a 5 star comic.

The point of Titus sneaking on the ship is because the dog had a special relationship with Damian and wants to help find him. Titus is there for an emotional response from the reader and I for one loved it. People who have read the whole series will get that.

Avatar image for brione
Posted By Brione

Only 2 stars for this is crazy. This is a 5 star comic.

The point of Titus sneaking on the ship is because the dog had a special relationship with Damian and wants to help find him. Titus is there for an emotional response from the reader and I for one loved it. People who have read the whole series will get that.

Avatar image for timelordscience
Edited By TimeLordScience

@mucklefluga: I wouldn't let one guys opinion completely deter you

Avatar image for jwalser3
Posted By jwalser3

Just because it wasn't necessary doesn't mean it wasn't fun.

Avatar image for jaken7
Posted By JakeN7

Oh please. Your complaints were nitpicky and your review is turning people away from the book. I doubt your low review score is justified, but the damage is done.

Avatar image for dstick88
Posted By Dstick88

When the New 52 started this was one of my favorite books, but when Damien was killed the book went down hill fast. I mean how can you have a book called Batman & Robin when Robin is dead?

this is how i feel i loved damian as robin, either bring him back or kill the book imo

Avatar image for aquaman01
Posted By aquaman01

Aquaman's not cool enough to hang with Bats. He single handily sank this issue. ;)

It's actually the opposite. It doesn't make sense, but it is true :)

Avatar image for lvenger
Posted By lvenger

ONLY 2 STARS? You hater of superhero comics, what have Batman and Aquaman ever done to you? :P

Jokes, listening to the last Comicvine podcast has now engrained this little joke into my head so I saw an opportunity to put it in play. Seriously, you do justify your 2 stars exceptionally well which is what I'd expect from a top notch reviewer like yourself Mat.

Avatar image for lone_wolf_and_cub
Edited By Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

Aquaman's not cool enough to hang with Bats. He single handily sank this issue. ;)

Avatar image for wolverine008
Posted By Wolverine008

Ouch.

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