Why do All the Heroes Look down on the Punisher?

  • 106 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for rukm
#1 Posted by RUKM (330 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine isn't as hated on Why?

Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
#2 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

Writer fan wanking

Avatar image for rukm
#3 Posted by RUKM (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: What?

Avatar image for kallarkz
#4 Posted by Kallarkz (3388 posts) - - Show Bio

He does nothing admirable

Avatar image for jedixman
#5 Posted by JediXMan (42867 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

Writer fan wanking

Yup.

@Kallarkz said:

He does nothing admirable

Hunting down murders, rapists, sex slavers...

Sounds good to me.

Moderator
Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
#6 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
@RUKM said:

@spiderbat87: What?

Because Wolverine is a cash cow so in the eyes of Marvel he can do no wrong 
Avatar image for x35
#7 Posted by X35 (6465 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher is a brutal murderer with absolutely no desire to change.

Wolverine at heart doesn't want to be the brutal murderer he is.

Avatar image for rukm
#8 Posted by RUKM (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87: Ah.

That sucks though. The Punisher is so Bad Ass. That sucks.

Avatar image for gambit1024
#9 Posted by Gambit1024 (10217 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

Punisher is a brutal murderer with absolutely no desire to change.

Wolverine at heart doesn't want to be the brutal murderer he is.

In a nutshell, yeah.

Avatar image for kallarkz
#10 Posted by Kallarkz (3388 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@spiderbat87 said:

Writer fan wanking

Yup.

@Kallarkz said:

He does nothing admirable

Hunting down murders, rapists, sex slavers...

Sounds good to me.

"Hunting them down" is not honorable.

The ends never justify the means as the human concept of right and wrong is always in flux.

You yourself might think its "cool" or "reasonable" to kill them....but in the grand scheme of things no. That is not an admirable task.

Avatar image for jedixman
#11 Posted by JediXMan (42867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz:

That might be your opinion; I do not attest to that. I will not shed a tear when people like that meet their end; be in at the hands of "justice" or if they meet an "accident" in jail.

You may think of me as cynical, and I am. To me, yes, the ends do justify the means. Now you can go on and on about me being wrong, but again, that's your opinion.

Moderator
Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
#12 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kallarkz said:

@JediXMan said:

@spiderbat87 said:

Writer fan wanking

Yup.

@Kallarkz said:

He does nothing admirable

Hunting down murders, rapists, sex slavers...

Sounds good to me.

"Hunting them down" is not honorable.

The ends never justify the means as the human concept of right and wrong is always in flux.

You yourself might think its "cool" or "reasonable" to kill them....but in the grand scheme of things no. That is not an admirable task.

a Wolverine doesn't do the exact same thing?
Avatar image for kallarkz
#13 Edited by Kallarkz (3388 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@Kallarkz said:

@JediXMan said:

@spiderbat87 said:

Writer fan wanking

Yup.

@Kallarkz said:

He does nothing admirable

Hunting down murders, rapists, sex slavers...

Sounds good to me.

"Hunting them down" is not honorable.

The ends never justify the means as the human concept of right and wrong is always in flux.

You yourself might think its "cool" or "reasonable" to kill them....but in the grand scheme of things no. That is not an admirable task.

a Wolverine doesn't do the exact same thing?

Help me search real quick when I mentioned anything about Wolverine in this thread.......oh wait...

@JediXMan said:

@Kallarkz:

That might be your opinion; I do not attest to that. I will not shed a tear when people like that meet their end; be in at the hands of "justice" or if they meet an "accident" in jail.

You may think of me as cynical, and I am. To me, yes, the ends do justify the means. Now you can go on and on about me being wrong, but again, that's your opinion.

I never stated you are "cynical" and yes we are sharing our "opinions" here (common theme on forums ;)).

However, if the world (or lets think in smaller terms for better comprehension) this country (America) were to run on your "logic" as to how criminals should be "re-payed"...this world would be a very different place. Your opinion is that it would be better. But logically one could assume that this in turn would lead to us simply valuing life less. I'm sure you can go on and on about me being wrong....but that's your opinion =).

My purpose is not to convince you to think one way or the other (such a debate would be pointless as it would have no meaning) rather just to share ....our opinions.

I'm simply glad to live in a place where your train of thought is not what is majorly enforced.

Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
#14 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kallarkz: Well if you read the OP this whole thread is about how Punisher is hated and Wolverine is not, if you don't want to talk about that then you might want to move this conversation to a PM
Avatar image for kallarkz
#15 Posted by Kallarkz (3388 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@Kallarkz: Well if you read the OP this whole thread is about how Punisher is hated and Wolverine is not, if you don't want to talk about that then you might want to move this conversation to a PM

I was answering the title of this thread which is:

Why do All the Heroes Look down on the Punisher?

Why don't you try and answer some points that I made in my argument instead of nitpicking at the fact that I did not "mention Wolverine".

One could argue that the topic was meant for both.

Don't post just to post.

Avatar image for jonesdeini
#16 Posted by JonesDeini (3874 posts) - - Show Bio

This was covered quite well in DD 11 when Matt talks down Alves. The long and short of it is that the traditional capes see what Frank is doing as the easy way out. And to a certain extent I agree. It's easy to just use their power and skills to wipe out crime but to do so (in their opinions) lowers them and makes them less heroic.

Avatar image for mutant_god
#17 Posted by Mutant God (3957 posts) - - Show Bio

Because wolverine is an Avenger and knows the right people and Punisher is not an Avenger nor a tool of SHIELD

Avatar image for jonny_anonymous
#18 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kallarkz said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@Kallarkz: Well if you read the OP this whole thread is about how Punisher is hated and Wolverine is not, if you don't want to talk about that then you might want to move this conversation to a PM

I was answering the title of this thread which is:

Why do All the Heroes Look down on the Punisher?

Why don't you try and answer some points that I made in my argument instead of nitpicking at the fact that I did not "mention Wolverine".

One could argue that the topic was meant for both.

Don't post just to post.

the OP says why isn't Wolverine is hated as Punisher and I answered that, I couldent care less on your opinion of the rights and wrongs of killing 
Avatar image for kallarkz
#19 Posted by Kallarkz (3388 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@Kallarkz said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@Kallarkz: Well if you read the OP this whole thread is about how Punisher is hated and Wolverine is not, if you don't want to talk about that then you might want to move this conversation to a PM

I was answering the title of this thread which is:

Why do All the Heroes Look down on the Punisher?

Why don't you try and answer some points that I made in my argument instead of nitpicking at the fact that I did not "mention Wolverine".

One could argue that the topic was meant for both.

Don't post just to post.

the OP says why isn't Wolverine is hated as Punisher and I answered that, I couldent care less on your opinion of the rights and wrongs of killing

I did not state my opinions so that you personally would care.

And how much you care about what I have to say is proven each time you quote me. So if you could truly "care less"....simply stop =]

Avatar image for thecannon
#20 Posted by TheCannon (20263 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

Punisher is a brutal murderer with absolutely no desire to change.

Wolverine at heart doesn't want to be the brutal murderer he is.

This. That's why all the fans like the Punisher.

Avatar image for thecannon
#21 Posted by TheCannon (20263 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35 said:

Punisher is a brutal murderer with absolutely no desire to change.

Wolverine at heart doesn't want to be the brutal murderer he is.

This. That's why all the fans like the Punisher.

Avatar image for innervenom123
#22 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Punisher is a serial killer and Wolverine is a serial killer who earns more money.

Avatar image for paracelsus
#23 Posted by Paracelsus (2361 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably because he does what they WISH they could do-namely kill their enemies. Most heroes NEVER kill( Iron Man, the FF- true I remember a THOR story in which the Asgardian Avenger slew several vampires and would have done the same to Dracula himself but they were no longer living creatures strictly speaking), but there hasn't be a hero who has NOT come close to killing at times(even Captain America has killed- and not just back in WWII). They hate him because they wish they could do what he does but yet recognize that they would no longer be heroes(- and give credence to the charges of the Daily Bugle that they are out of control vigilantes)!

Terry

Avatar image for enosisik
#24 Posted by Enosisik (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

Not all of the look down on him in the first place. Just the higher moral types do but not your anti-heroes and so on..

Avatar image for powerherc
#25 Posted by PowerHerc (86188 posts) - - Show Bio

Possibly because he's given in to his basest urges in an effort to get revenge and has thus become an out-cold killer.

Maybe he's hard to get along with when there's a major event or cross-over.

Avatar image for fuchsia_nightingale
#26 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10191 posts) - - Show Bio

Not revenge, punishment ^_^

he'd put them out of a job, so they cant be in the limelight :P

Kill them don't kill them, doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things, good and evil's fight is never ending.

Avatar image for batteredarmor
#27 Posted by BatteredArmor (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher is a better man than Wolverine in my eyes

Avatar image for the_stegman
#28 Posted by the_stegman (40301 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher is a brutal murderer with absolutely no desire to change.

This exactly, He's a psychopath who is trying to fill the void in his own life that was created with the death of his family by committing murder after murder, basically if Batman went wrong, he's not a hero, his a murderer who operates against the law, and I completely agree with the heroes,he needs to be brought down.
Moderator
Avatar image for rukm
#29 Posted by RUKM (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman: He Doesn't Kill Innocents.

Avatar image for vance_astro
#30 Edited by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher has the best philosophy on murder though and he's actually right.This is a point that people who read comics make all the time.The hero always defeats the villain and allows him to live, only for him to return and commit even more heinous crimes.The Punisher eliminates the villains in the first place and therefore they will never come back to hurt anyone else.People say that the Punisher is crazy but if I was in his position I'd be killing villains too.

Moderator
Avatar image for the_stegman
#31 Posted by the_stegman (40301 posts) - - Show Bio
@RUKM: He's still a murderer, who is he to decide who lives and who dies? He is breaking the law, he's no better than the criminal he deems worthy of death.
Moderator
Avatar image for enosisik
#32 Posted by Enosisik (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghost rider likes him :))

Avatar image for dernman
#33 Posted by Dernman (26082 posts) - - Show Bio

What are you talking about? Most everyone does look down on Wolverine. He's one of the shortest heroes out. :p

Avatar image for rowen545
#34 Posted by Rowen545 (404 posts) - - Show Bio
@X35 said:

Punisher is a brutal murderer with absolutely no desire to change.

Wolverine at heart doesn't want to be the brutal murderer he is.

This
Avatar image for rukm
#35 Posted by RUKM (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman: He decides. He doesn't see himself above or below the law..He made a vow to punish criminals that is what he does and all he cares about. He isn't better than the cops or criminals and he knows that.

Avatar image for mega_spidey01
#36 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3080 posts) - - Show Bio

@Paracelsus said:

Probably because he does what they WISH they could do-namely kill their enemies. Most heroes NEVER kill( Iron Man, the FF- true I remember a THOR story in which the Asgardian Avenger slew several vampires and would have done the same to Dracula himself but they were no longer living creatures strictly speaking), but there hasn't be a hero who has NOT come close to killing at times(even Captain America has killed- and not just back in WWII). They hate him because they wish they could do what he does but yet recognize that they would no longer be heroes(- and give credence to the charges of the Daily Bugle that they are out of control vigilantes)!

Terry

Avatar image for alphakennybody
#37 Edited by AlphaKennyBody (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman:

I personally think the Punishers the only one whose making any real difference albeit minor and only concentrated in specific parts of the world

I have always thought that the so called super heroes don't care about people and are doing it for selfish reasons, fame, sense of worth, self righteous attitude etc etc..... Putting on a facade, Think about it, if they truly cared, if they truly wanted to save people, than they would just kill the villain, at least the ones who have caused many deaths, instead of letting them eventually break out of incarceration (which they always do almost on a regular basis) than wreak havoc and murder dozens to sometimes hundreds to sometimes thousands of innocents not to mention the millions in dollars of property damages. Now i know what your going to say, if they kill than they might become something else, there own worst enemies, a dictator, a crazed murderer as shown in cases of what happens when they do resort to killing. But there is also another method, the government could step in, doesn't the universe in DC/Marvel/Image comics have the death penalty? Im pretty sure someone like the Joker can be tried for his crimes and get the lethal injection. Im mostly talking about the comics though not the G rated cartoons where people never seem to die. I guess thats the problem with western comics, they never think things through, logic doesn't exist. Just like how we are suppose to accept that everyone in Metropolis is blind and stupid enough to be fooled by Supermans halfassed disguise and exaggerated personality

Avatar image for fadetoblackbolt
#38 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23389 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
The Punisher has the best philosophy on murder though and he's actually right.This is a point that people who read comics make all the time.The hero always defeats the villain and allows him to live, only for him to return and commit even more heinous crimes.The Punisher eliminates the villains in the first place and therefore they will never come back to hurt anyone else.People say that the Punisher is crazy but if I was in his position I'd be killing villains too.
This is mostly accurate, but IIRC (feel free to say I'm wrong, it's been a while since I read it), he's killed people for running red lights and stuff. At his core, even though I too agree with him fundamentally, Frank's a psychopath who just wants to kill.  
 
Spider-Man is actually the most looked-down-upon hero in the MU, despite being the greatest hero by a landslide. 
Avatar image for deadcool
#39 Posted by Deadcool (6944 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@Kallarkz said:

He does nothing admirable

Hunting down murders, rapists, sex slavers...

Sounds good to me.

And then he kills them all...

Avatar image for joshmightbe
#40 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

Because Punisher is a serial killer and Wolverine is a serial killer who earns more money.

They're mass murderers not serial killers and considering Wolverine has killed people for just happening to be in a bar when he lost his sh!t he can't claim any moral superiority over Frank. And don't give that Wolverine wants to be better crap. A lot of people don't want to do bad things but if they keep doing them it means they're still bad people

Avatar image for deadcool
#41 Posted by Deadcool (6944 posts) - - Show Bio

@RUKM said:

He Doesn't Kill Innocents.

Who?

The Punisher killed Stiltman, dude was a joke, a sad joke. Wolverine killed the Hornet, a good guy.

Both are out of control, the Punisher tried to kill Spider-man in his first appearence, what the hell? What is going to stop them if they try to kill another innocent character?

They would never kill another innocent character because both are comicbook characters, but the admiration that real people have to those characters is stupid.

Avatar image for vance_astro
#42 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deadcool said:

@RUKM said:

He Doesn't Kill Innocents.

Who?

The Punisher killed Stiltman, dude was a joke, a sad joke. Wolverine killed the Hornet, a good guy.

Both are out of control, the Punisher tried to kill Spider-man in his first appearence, what the hell? What is going to stop them if they try to kill another innocent character?

They would never kill another innocent character because both are comicbook characters, but the admiration that real people have to those characters is stupid.

Stilt-Man was a villain, not at all innocent.Wolverine killed the Hornet while under the control of the Hand, so that doesn't count.
Moderator
Avatar image for vance_astro
#43 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
This is mostly accurate, but IIRC (feel free to say I'm wrong, it's been a while since I read it), he's killed people for running red lights and stuff. At his core, even though I too agree with him fundamentally, Frank's a psychopath who just wants to kill.   Spider-Man is actually the most looked-down-upon hero in the MU, despite being the greatest hero by a landslide. 
I've never seen that happened but I probably haven't read as much Punisher as you have.Most of the comics i've read where Frank has killed someone he had a good reason.I disagree with the idea that Spider-Man is the most looked down upon especially by other heroes.He's about as respected as any other hero.He and Daredevil are basically best friends,Arana looks at him as a mentor,Ms.Marvel and Jessica Jones have crushes on him,Hank Pym told him that he was smarter than him,Reed Richards has compared his intellect to his own,Iron Man respects Spider-Man's intellect and has told him so on several occasions,I mean what heroes actually look down on him?
Moderator
Avatar image for fadetoblackbolt
#44 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23389 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
This is mostly accurate, but IIRC (feel free to say I'm wrong, it's been a while since I read it), he's killed people for running red lights and stuff. At his core, even though I too agree with him fundamentally, Frank's a psychopath who just wants to kill.   Spider-Man is actually the most looked-down-upon hero in the MU, despite being the greatest hero by a landslide. 
I've never seen that happened but I probably haven't read as much Punisher as you have.Most of the comics i've read where Frank has killed someone he had a good reason.I disagree with the idea that Spider-Man is the most looked down upon especially by other heroes.He's about as respected as any other hero.He and Daredevil are basically best friends,Arana looks at him as a mentor,Ms.Marvel and Jessica Jones have crushes on him,Hank Pym told him that he was smarter than him,Reed Richards has compared his intellect to his own,Iron Man respects Spider-Man's intellect and has told him so on several occasions,I mean what heroes actually look down on him?
Sadly, that's mostly gone down the drain as of recently. Have you been reading the current Spider-Man? He's lucky to get the time of day from the other heroes. 
Avatar image for deadcool
#45 Posted by Deadcool (6944 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Stilt-Man was a villain, not at all innocent.

He was a joke and not worth to be killed, he has never hurt anyone, he just gets hurt.

Wolverine killed the Hornet while under the control of the Hand, so that doesn't count

Well... Logan stabbed Peter during a training.

Avatar image for trueilluminatus
#46 Edited by TrueIlluminatus (9579 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

I've never seen that happened but I probably haven't read as much Punisher as you have.Most of the comics i've read where Frank has killed someone he had a good reason.I disagree with the idea that Spider-Man is the most looked down upon especially by other heroes.He's about as respected as any other hero.He and Daredevil are basically best friends,Arana looks at him as a mentor,Ms.Marvel and Jessica Jones have crushes on him,Hank Pym told him that he was smarter than him,Reed Richards has compared his intellect to his own,Iron Man respects Spider-Man's intellect and has told him so on several occasions,I mean what heroes actually look down on him?

More recently, it seemed like a majority of the Avengers don't really care for his sarcasm in the field, as exhibited in Avenging Spider-Man. Rulk was basically pissed off just to be near him and outright admitted he wasn't sure why someone like Peter was allowed to become an Avenger in the first place.  
 
Wolverine gives him grief on a consistent basis, but he does that to everyone and their mother these days.
Avatar image for the_stegman
#47 Edited by the_stegman (40301 posts) - - Show Bio
@RUKM:  

@The Stegman : He decides. He doesn't see himself above or below the law..He made a vow to punish criminals that is what he does and all he cares about. He isn't better than the cops or criminals and he knows that.

Exactly, he decides, he wasn't appointed to do this by anyone, the very act of breaking the law for his own twisted sense of "justice" is in and of itself, going above the law, hence, that's why he is known as a criminal among law enforcement and he hero community alike. 
 
 
@AlphaKennyBody:  
 


@The Stegman:

I personally think the Punishers the only one whose making any real difference albeit minor and only concentrated in specific parts of the world

I have always thought that the so called super heroes don't care about people and are doing it for selfish reasons, fame, sense of worth, self righteous attitude etc etc..... Putting on a facade, Think about it, if they truly cared, if they truly wanted to save people, than they would just kill the villain, at least the ones who have caused many deaths, instead of letting them eventually break out of incarceration (which they always do almost on a regular basis) than wreak havoc and murder dozens to sometimes hundreds to sometimes thousands of innocents not to mention the millions in dollars of property damages. Now i know what your going to say, if they kill than they might become something else, there own worst enemies, a dictator, a crazed murderer as shown in cases of what happens when they do resort to killing. But there is also another method, the government could step in, doesn't the universe in DC/Marvel/Image comics have the death penalty? Im pretty sure someone like the Joker can be tried for his crimes and get the lethal injection. Im mostly talking about the comics though not the G rated cartoons where people never seem to die. I guess thats the problem with western comics, they never think things through, logic doesn't exist. Just like how we are suppose to accept that everyone in Metropolis is blind and stupid enough to be fooled by Supermans halfassed disguise and exaggerated personality 

"There's an old Proverb that says, "If you walk down a road of vengeance then you should dig two graves, one for your enemy and one for yourself" You can't build a better world by killing criminals, it bankrupts your soul and society's by reinforcing the same cycle of violence."-Batman  
 
 
I believe in this 100% at the end of the day, whether in comics or in actual life, the superheroes there to do more than just "catch the bad guy" they inspire hope, the act as symbols that the people can look up to, to aspire to be like. I'm not saying they should all go out in costumes and fight crime, but rather if they see someone in trouble, go get help, call a cop. But the Punisher, he isn't like that, he's a murderer plain and simply. He goes around with a machine gun, playing judge, jury, and executioner to those he deems worthy of death. What makes him special? it's ok for him to break the law, but if he were to meet someone who did the same as him, would he kill them? if so, he'd be hypocritical, if not, he goes against his own code, however twisted it may be. As for the whole "we know the villains are going to escape incarceration" thing, I say the same thing now that I've always said. THAT'S NOT THE HERO'S FAULT. They do their job, they put the criminals behind bars, it's the prison's fault for failing to keep them locked up. 
 To me the Punisher isn't a hero, he's not even an anti hero, he's a criminal with a gun and his own self issued license to kill.
Moderator
Avatar image for avenging_x_bolt
#48 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (18089 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like him, the guy is a glorified mass murderer who just happens to have favorable targets. Killing is only ok when the threat is immediate and/there is absolutely no way out. In my book anyway. But if the crook is in jail and the hero goes in there and snaps his neck while he sleeps, that's just not right in my book. But I will admit there are times when Ive wanted it to happen like during Back In Black. I'm ashamed of it but I wanted to see Spidey knock off the Kingpin...........

Avatar image for innervenom123
#49 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

Because Punisher is a serial killer and Wolverine is a serial killer who earns more money.

They're mass murderers not serial killers and considering Wolverine has killed people for just happening to be in a bar when he lost his sh!t he can't claim any moral superiority over Frank. And don't give that Wolverine wants to be better crap. A lot of people don't want to do bad things but if they keep doing them it means they're still bad people

Good point.

Anyway what I was saying is that Wolverine isn't looked down upon because him being with the heroes sells.

Avatar image for innervenom123
#50 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool said:

@JediXMan said:

@Kallarkz said:

He does nothing admirable

Hunting down murders, rapists, sex slavers...

Sounds good to me.

And then he kills them all...

You say "and then he kills them all" as if there's something wrong with that.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.