The Many Faces of The Punisher—How Violent Should He Get?

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Posted by Undeadpool (726 posts) - - Show Bio
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Francis Castiglione blasted onto the pages of Marvel comics in Amazing Spider-Man #129 with our favorite web-slinger already in his cross-hairs on the cover. Though he was introduced as a villain manipulated by longtime Spidey foe The Jackal into attempting to kill the wall-crawler, no one could guess that the character would take off in such a significant way, launching several of his own titles and being one of the first Marvel comics characters to appear on the silver screen. He’s also one of the most divisive characters in the medium, with many writing him off as merely a vapid attempt at being XTREEEEEEEEEEME (to the MAAAAX!) or even “the guy with guns,” but as I’ll reveal in this article, there’s a lot more to The Punisher than his debut may have suggested.

After achieving a huge amount of popularity, and three of his own titles, Frank Castle’s popularity declined, in part because of the difficulty of an ongoing hero who kills his antagonists, thus limiting their ability to be recurring, and in part because, beyond his interesting origin, he wasn’t being very fleshed out. Attempts to make him an angelic assassin had failed to revitalize the character, and it appeared that Castle might join the ranks of MarvelCharacterObscurity.

== TEASER ==

That is, until a hungry writer by the name of Garth Ennis got ahold of him and completely revamped the character. He kept the iconic skull imagery, and even the costume that didn’t make a great deal of sense, but he made the character harder edged, more introspective, and most importantly: introduced an element of dark humor. Very, very, VERY dark humor. Castle was trapped in a world of men dressing in tights and battling evil, strange mobsters who hired gargantuan superhero-obsessed hitmen, and madmen who all wanted to BE the next Punisher. And he wasn’t amused one little bit. He was the straight man in his own comedy bit.

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After the series ran its course, Ennis took the character one step further onto Marvel’s MAX imprint, thus removing the character from mainstream continuity and also removing most of the humor. The Punisher existed in what was essentially the “real” world in this book. This achieved a measure of mature storytelling that could actually make the reader extremely uncomfortable, in a positive way, while reading the book as Frank dealt with real-world issues like modern slavery, white-collar crime and in addition to allowing Ennis to show at least SOME of the consequences of the horrific violence that Castle inflicted on his enemies. There was certainly no room for “mercy bullets” in this Punisher’s repertoire of weapons.

He also re-told Frank Castle’s origin as a sergeant in the Vietnam War where he’s taunted by a strange voice, that may or may not be real, offering him a war without end. He even went as far back as the Punisher’s childhood, seeing an older boy take brutal revenge on the son of a mobster.

These events fleshed out The Punisher and gave him a motivation beyond the simple desire to murder or the need for revenge. He became an avatar of vengeance, almost crossing into the supernatural, but pulling back just enough to make the reader wonder if perhaps Frank’s simply insane and always has been. The Punisher we see in the MAX series is in his late fifties or early sixties and Ennis introduced a revolving door of supporting cast and antagonists that spanned ten volumes of mostly contiguous and connected plots. This was one way to make the Punisher a more readable character: make him 100% serious, give him a certain self-awareness of the futility of his life’s work, and tell realistic, grounded stories. With a Punisher like this, was there even a need for a more humorous version? Matt Fraction certainly seemed to believe so.

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Frank Castle re-emerged after a few years lying dormant in the mainstream Marvel Universe in the event book Civil War, but it would be Matt Fraction who would spearhead the Punisher’s return to his own series. I was able to ask Fraction a question about the series because I suspected that he had taken Ennis’ style of humor and ramped it up to its logical extreme, and wondered this was intentional. He confirmed that he saw Castle as a character who had appointed himself judge, jury and executioner, a person who took absolute morality into his own hands, and how would a someone like that react in a world where a man dresses like a rhinoceros and robs a bank.

Punisher was still very serious in a world that can’t really be taken seriously, and that led to some of the most legitimate laughs in the character’s history. Between blowing up the villain hangout “The Bar With No Name” and punching Rhino out using Baron Strucker’s Satan’s Claw, Punisher had decided to use superheroes' own tropes and weapons against them. At it’s most basic level, the biggest difference between these two interpretations of the character is that one is more easily identified as “Frank Castle” (Ennis’ version) and one is more accurately known as “The Punisher” (Fraction’s).

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Rick Remender would go even further, having Daken kill Punisher and bringing him back as a patchwork monster called Frankencastle. Now Punisher had become the thing he despised: he was a crazy, exaggerated, comic book character. He fit right in with all the other crazy folks running around in colorful spandex and there was definitely the notion put forth that he wasn’t terribly thrilled with the idea. This was, of course, a temporary change and now Punisher is back doing what he does best: pointing out the absurdity of the medium while engaging in it wholesale.

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#1 Posted by Chaos Burn (1898 posts) - - Show Bio

he should get very violent

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#2 Posted by Mbecks14 (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

My feelings about the Punisher:

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Sorry that was rude. It was a good article though.
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#3 Posted by Rainja (646 posts) - - Show Bio

I secound, punisher should always be very dark and violent.

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#4 Posted by Deadcool (6944 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mbecks14

Cool Strory Bro
Cool Strory Bro
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#5 Posted by King Quisling (2073 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading all of Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX work it's kinda hard to read anything where he doesn't kill dozens of criminals every almost every issue. Rick Remender's recent run with Frank was really great to my surprise, even the Franken-Castle stuff. He was still very sullen and morose with no concern for how much his victims suffer or how far he has to push himself to get "the job" done. He should always be defined by violence and death but never should he return to killing junkies and litter-bugs. He should always have his limits & set morals.

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#6 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (8418 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank died on the rooftop that stormy night, end of.

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#7 Posted by King Quisling (2073 posts) - - Show Bio
@Omega Ray Jay said:
Frank died on the rooftop that stormy night, end of.
Nah, that was more of a new beginning.
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#8 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (8418 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Quisling said:
@Omega Ray Jay said:
Frank died on the rooftop that stormy night, end of.
Nah, that was more of a new beginning.
I saw bits, bits of brain and arms.
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#9 Posted by longbowhunter (9425 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always said the Punisher works best outside the Marvel universe. Ennis and now Jason Aaron have proven without a shadow of a doubt, PunisherMAX is my Punisher book.
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#10 Posted by perry_411 (453 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone else feel Daken is a waste of time? He's bi, he runs a crime organization, has daddy issues. I look forward to them dropping him into obscurity.

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#11 Posted by the_stegman (40355 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mbecks14:   pretty much how i feel too

My feelings about the Punisher:
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Moderator
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#12 Posted by Mumbles (858 posts) - - Show Bio

love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5bf70359d2dd1 (16596 posts) - - Show Bio
@Chaos Burn said:
he should get very violent
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#14 Posted by HellionVulcan (7298 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher Max is all the punisher i need ,loved it still do & Frank should be a brutal as they come .

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#15 Posted by guardiandevil801 (400 posts) - - Show Bio

he needs to be more violent and dark!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#16 Posted by King Quisling (2073 posts) - - Show Bio
@Omega Ray Jay said:
@King Quisling said:
@Omega Ray Jay said:
Frank died on the rooftop that stormy night, end of.
Nah, that was more of a new beginning.
I saw bits, bits of brain and arms.
No Caption Provided
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#17 Edited by King Quisling (2073 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mumbles said:

love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.

Franken-Castle was great.
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This is the worse event to ever happened to the Punisher.
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#18 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio
@perry_411 said:
Does anyone else feel Daken is a waste of time? He's bi, he runs a crime organization, has daddy issues. I look forward to them dropping him into obscurity.
His being bisexual has nothing to do with his worth as a character. Also, he moreso just uses sex to get what he wants. There's an entire thread on that. 
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#19 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Quisling said:

@Mumbles said:
love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.
Franken-Castle was great.
No Caption Provided
This is the worse event to every happened to the Punisher.

At least you can look back and laugh at that Franken-Castle and Punisher Purgatory you really can't.

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#20 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, the article never even discussed the levels of violence The Punisher uses.... what the heck? You'd think with a title like "How violent should he get?" we'd get a look at the varying levels of violence and a discussion about the levels of violence that should be published in mainstream comic books, but instead we get an analysis of Frank as a character and promotions for MAX, Fraction and Remender's runs.... at least that's how I see it. Prove me wrong please. I might just be tired or something, lol. 

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#21 Posted by King Quisling (2073 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@Mumbles said:
love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.
Franken-Castle was great.
No Caption Provided
This is the worse event to every happened to the Punisher.

At least you can look back and laugh at that Franken-Castle and Punisher Purgatory you really can't.

Give it twenty years to sink in. Personally I thought Franken-Castle was a refreshing step away from the usual "let's shoot some z-list villains and canon fodder."
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#22 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@Mumbles said:
love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.
Franken-Castle was great.
No Caption Provided
This is the worse event to every happened to the Punisher.

At least you can look back and laugh at that Franken-Castle and Punisher Purgatory you really can't.

Give it twenty years to sink in. Personally I thought Franken-Castle was a refreshing step away from the usual "let's shoot some z-list villains and canon fodder."

Technically shooting z-list villains is what Franken-Castle did. Zombie nazis, the shaolin science squad (again), and hand failures are what Franken-Castle dealt with. I do agree with you about Fraction's writing the Punisher and Rick Remender's Punisher run were he killed nothing but Z-list villains.

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#23 Posted by bjmorga (74 posts) - - Show Bio

Max is the way to go. Ennis brought Punisher into his Golden Age. 
 
Franken-Castle? Give me a break!

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#24 Posted by King Quisling (2073 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@Mumbles said:
love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.
Franken-Castle was great.
No Caption Provided
This is the worse event to every happened to the Punisher.

At least you can look back and laugh at that Franken-Castle and Punisher Purgatory you really can't.

Give it twenty years to sink in. Personally I thought Franken-Castle was a refreshing step away from the usual "let's shoot some z-list villains and canon fodder."

Technically shooting z-list villains is what Franken-Castle did. Zombie nazis, the shaolin science squad (again), and hand failures are what Franken-Castle dealt with. I do agree with you about Fraction's writing the Punisher and Rick Remender's Punisher run were he killed nothing but Z-list villains.

Yeah, I know! But this time around he was a Franken-Monster! It was a funny run and we got to see him do things he could never do before. Like go toe-to-toe with Daken and ride a dragon. :P There's something about that panel in which that little moloid share candy bars & watched old movies with Frank that will probably always stay with me.
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#25 Posted by ZORN (1560 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think the Punisher should get more violent unless it's necessary like in Slavers, if an artist and writer decides to make the violence more important than the story, and Frank Castle, then it will just be like that awful movie and I'd have to stop reading the Punisher comics, violence comes last after the monologues, and the things leading to the violence when I read anything Punisher, also I enjoyed reading the article, well done, and I'm looking forward to Greg Rucka's take on The Big Man.

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#26 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@Mumbles said:
love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.
Franken-Castle was great.
No Caption Provided
This is the worse event to every happened to the Punisher.

At least you can look back and laugh at that Franken-Castle and Punisher Purgatory you really can't.

Give it twenty years to sink in. Personally I thought Franken-Castle was a refreshing step away from the usual "let's shoot some z-list villains and canon fodder."

Technically shooting z-list villains is what Franken-Castle did. Zombie nazis, the shaolin science squad (again), and hand failures are what Franken-Castle dealt with. I do agree with you about Fraction's writing the Punisher and Rick Remender's Punisher run were he killed nothing but Z-list villains.

Yeah, I know! But this time around he was a Franken-Monster! It was a funny run and we got to see him do things he could never do before. Like go toe-to-toe with Daken and ride a dragon. :P There's something about that panel in which that little moloid share candy bars & watched old movies with Frank that will probably always stay with me.

The Punisher has already gone tow to toe with Wolverine and come out on top. He put Daken on his ass in the sewer and if it wasn't for him being so injured battling the Hood's goons and then fighting HAMMER and getting his leg broke he probably would've killed Daken. Franken-Castle was nothing more than a cheap gimmick and most likely it won't be referenced in the future making the whole the thing pointless.

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#27 Posted by lb70145 (263 posts) - - Show Bio

I love that this article completely dances around the idea of the Punisher himself being insane when he totally is. He heard voices, has a screwed up moral code, severe PTSD, I mean the list goes on and on. He is so nutty that Deadpool looks at him and can only throw up his arms and claim in his yellow thought bubbles, "Well, can't beat that."

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#28 Posted by King Quisling (2073 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@Mumbles said:
love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.
Franken-Castle was great.
No Caption Provided
This is the worse event to every happened to the Punisher.

At least you can look back and laugh at that Franken-Castle and Punisher Purgatory you really can't.

Give it twenty years to sink in. Personally I thought Franken-Castle was a refreshing step away from the usual "let's shoot some z-list villains and canon fodder."

Technically shooting z-list villains is what Franken-Castle did. Zombie nazis, the shaolin science squad (again), and hand failures are what Franken-Castle dealt with. I do agree with you about Fraction's writing the Punisher and Rick Remender's Punisher run were he killed nothing but Z-list villains.

Yeah, I know! But this time around he was a Franken-Monster! It was a funny run and we got to see him do things he could never do before. Like go toe-to-toe with Daken and ride a dragon. :P There's something about that panel in which that little moloid share candy bars & watched old movies with Frank that will probably always stay with me.

The Punisher has already gone tow to toe with Wolverine and come out on top. He put Daken on his ass in the sewer and if it wasn't for him being so injured battling the Hood's goons and then fighting HAMMER and getting his leg broke he probably would've killed Daken. Franken-Castle was nothing more than a cheap gimmick and most likely it won't be referenced in the future making the whole the thing pointless.

You always have to take the pheromones into account. They're a major part of Daken's combat style. Can you really say normal mortal Punisher could take him on the way he did as Franken-Castle? Anyway, idc if it becomes pointless. A good majority of comics do. (In, fact isn't DC making almost a whole U "pointless" in a couple of months?) Just saying I enjoyed it while it lasted.
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#29 Posted by fodigg (6244 posts) - - Show Bio

As far as I'm concerned, Punisher is not a Superhero. He's not "super," he's not a "hero," he's just a sociopathic murderer who happens to target criminals.

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#30 Edited by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Quisling said:

No Caption Provided
@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@cody1984 said:

@King Quisling said:

@Mumbles said:
love the article. worst event to happen was Frankencastle. punisher max is the best. jason aaron current run is soooo good also. can't wait for rucka's marvel run coming up.
Franken-Castle was great.This is the worse event to every happened to the Punisher.

At least you can look back and laugh at that Franken-Castle and Punisher Purgatory you really can't.

Give it twenty years to sink in. Personally I thought Franken-Castle was a refreshing step away from the usual "let's shoot some z-list villains and canon fodder."

Technically shooting z-list villains is what Franken-Castle did. Zombie nazis, the shaolin science squad (again), and hand failures are what Franken-Castle dealt with. I do agree with you about Fraction's writing the Punisher and Rick Remender's Punisher run were he killed nothing but Z-list villains.

Yeah, I know! But this time around he was a Franken-Monster! It was a funny run and we got to see him do things he could never do before. Like go toe-to-toe with Daken and ride a dragon. :P There's something about that panel in which that little moloid share candy bars & watched old movies with Frank that will probably always stay with me.

The Punisher has already gone tow to toe with Wolverine and come out on top. He put Daken on his ass in the sewer and if it wasn't for him being so injured battling the Hood's goons and then fighting HAMMER and getting his leg broke he probably would've killed Daken. Franken-Castle was nothing more than a cheap gimmick and most likely it won't be referenced in the future making the whole the thing pointless.

You always have to take the pheromones into account. They're a major part of Daken's combat style. Can you really say normal mortal Punisher could take him on the way he did as Franken-Castle? Anyway, idc if it becomes pointless. A good majority of comics do. (In, fact isn't DC making almost a whole U "pointless" in a couple of months?) Just saying I enjoyed it while it lasted.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree about Franken-Castle.

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#31 Posted by cobra88king8 (362 posts) - - Show Bio
I think that The Punisher is an essential character for the Marvel Universe. He's what happens when the heroes lose it. He's a reminder to every hero what would happen if they gave away their morality. That's one thing that bothered me during Civil War, When the Punisher killed those villians in front of all of the anti-reg team and Cap, it didn't dawn on them that they, like him, had taken a step of the path they had vowed to follow. 
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#32 Edited by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

@cobra88king8 said:

I think that The Punisher is an essential character for the Marvel Universe. He's what happens when the heroes lose it. He's a reminder to every hero what would happen if they gave away their morality. That's one thing that bothered me during Civil War, When the Punisher killed those villians in front of all of the anti-reg team and Cap, it didn't dawn on them that they, like him, had taken a step of the path they had vowed to follow.

It's also the reason why heroes tend to not go after the Punisher either, and why Spiderman, Captain America, Wolverine, etc. have teamed up with him before. The Punisher bothers superheroes because he doesn't have their code of not killing and is extremely effective against organized crime and terrorism. In the Punisher vs. Daredevil arc they showed Matt looking at the newspaper troubled that the crime rate climbed massively due to the Punisher being in jail leading him to have his doubts about which method his or the Punisher's is the most effective. The methodology difference between superheroes and the Punisher and them wanting to cross that line at times is the reason they tend to leave the Punisher alone.

Civil War Files summed up the difference in views between Superheroes and the Punisher pretty well.

No Caption Provided
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#33 Posted by perry_411 (453 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123: I was listing traits, they aren't drawing any interest to me. They've showed us him as an assassin, a team villain, faking his death to go "good", immediately going to madripor, and taking over. It seems like the writers don't have a clue what to do with him, and it makes him uninteresting. i really want to like this character, but there doesn't seem to be any direction to him.
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#34 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

@perry_411 said:

@InnerVenom123: I was listing traits, they aren't drawing any interest to me. They've showed us him as an assassin, a team villain, faking his death to go "good", immediately going to madripor, and taking over. It seems like the writers don't have a clue what to do with him, and it makes him uninteresting. i really want to like this character, but there doesn't seem to be any direction to him.

Have you read any of Garth Ennis's MAX run? The Punisher is very stable during those 60 issues (plus three one shots and the born miniseries) and the stories are divided up into 6 issues per story arc and all ten story arcs are woven together in a way that makes the whole thing feel like one a huge graphic novel that you are still able to read just a few story arcs and not feel lost because you haven't read the others. I do get what your saying about the Punisher in 616 though marvel has been pretty clueless about how to deal with the character.

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#35 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio
@LB70145 said:
I love that this article completely dances around the idea of the Punisher himself being insane when he totally is. He heard voices, has a screwed up moral code, severe PTSD, I mean the list goes on and on. He is so nutty that Deadpool looks at him and can only throw up his arms and claim in his yellow thought bubbles, "Well, can't beat that."
Garth Ennis said the voice was actually the devil. It makes sense if you've read "Punisher MAX: THE END". 
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#36 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984 said:

@perry_411 said:

@InnerVenom123: I was listing traits, they aren't drawing any interest to me. They've showed us him as an assassin, a team villain, faking his death to go "good", immediately going to madripor, and taking over. It seems like the writers don't have a clue what to do with him, and it makes him uninteresting. i really want to like this character, but there doesn't seem to be any direction to him.

Have you read any of Garth Ennis's MAX run? The Punisher is very stable during those 60 issues (plus three one shots and the born miniseries) and the stories are divided up into 6 issues per story arc and all ten story arcs are woven together in a way that makes the whole thing feel like one a huge graphic novel that you are still able to read just a few story arcs and not feel lost because you haven't read the others. I do get what your saying about the Punisher in 616 though marvel has been pretty clueless about how to deal with the character.

Dude, perry's talking about Daken..... lol....
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#37 Posted by goldenkey (3033 posts) - - Show Bio

Castiglione????????  When did he become a greaseball.  Awsome.  Punisher Pison!!!!!
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#38 Posted by goldenkey (3033 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984
OH MY GOD I FOROT ABOUT THIS!!!  First time I saw this, a black guy showed me.  I thought he was gonna piss his pants he was laughing so hard.  I live in Chicago and that series Punisher was hiding out in Chicago killig El Rukins'  How damn cheesy.
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#39 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@cody1984 said:

@perry_411 said:

@InnerVenom123: I was listing traits, they aren't drawing any interest to me. They've showed us him as an assassin, a team villain, faking his death to go "good", immediately going to madripor, and taking over. It seems like the writers don't have a clue what to do with him, and it makes him uninteresting. i really want to like this character, but there doesn't seem to be any direction to him.

Have you read any of Garth Ennis's MAX run? The Punisher is very stable during those 60 issues (plus three one shots and the born miniseries) and the stories are divided up into 6 issues per story arc and all ten story arcs are woven together in a way that makes the whole thing feel like one a huge graphic novel that you are still able to read just a few story arcs and not feel lost because you haven't read the others. I do get what your saying about the Punisher in 616 though marvel has been pretty clueless about how to deal with the character.

Dude, perry's talking about Daken..... lol....

whoops.

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#40 Posted by umbrafeline (5919 posts) - - Show Bio

frankie should replace deadpool in uncanny xforce and should be given his titles back again
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#41 Posted by Ridge111 (31 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mbecks14: haha....nice XD
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#42 Posted by SourceDecay (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Ennis was the best.  I seriously couldn't give a crap about the character otherwise.  But Ennis Punisher?  Yes, yes, yes!

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#43 Posted by Mancotron (23 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always felt the worse thing they could do (and yet continue to do) with The Punisher is have him running around in the 616 universe. Castle, Ghost Rider, and I'll even say Daredevil should exist in their own self contained stories, separated from 616.

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#44 Posted by fitchy101 (210 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mbecks14: Whoah how rude. Fair point though....
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#45 Edited by Out_of_Space (778 posts) - - Show Bio

He don't need to get more violent that he is now.
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#46 Posted by Green ankh (1104 posts) - - Show Bio

I never was a big fan of the Punisher.  but Ennis's run did get me to take another look.  The hook with Castle is that he can fit into most any use becouse he is grounded in a really beiveable place.
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#47 Posted by They Killed Cap! (2268 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher is a violent charecter...so he should always be violent, but not for the sake of violence.

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#48 Posted by perry_411 (453 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123: yeah that was funny.
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#49 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio
@perry_411 said:
Does anyone else feel Daken is a waste of time? He's bi, he runs a crime organization, has daddy issues. I look forward to them dropping him into obscurity.
What does his being 'Bi' have to do with anything?
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#50 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio

So...How violent SHOULD he get???
 
He kills people.  (Bad guys.)
He shoots people.
He stabs people.
He slices people.
He blows people up.
He tortures people.
 
He does this to LOTS AND LOTS of people.  So, how violent SHOULD he get???  Um...Could he BE anymore violent?  He is, after all, The PUNISHER. 

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