Punisher Right or Wrong

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#1 Posted by angryvigilante (1866 posts) - - Show Bio

Just wondering what people thought about the Punisher's brand of justice? Do you agree with it or think Batman's way is better?

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#2 Posted by LT1085 (3677 posts) - - Show Bio

No one has the right to take another person's life unless it is an extreme case of self defense(in which their own/child's life is at stake)

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#3 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4172 posts) - - Show Bio

Its absolutely right, Punisher takes guys off the streets permanently. Batman puts them behind bars so they can just brake out and kill, rape, maim, and rob again.

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#4 Posted by bringdeath (283 posts) - - Show Bio

well you have to understans the mythos and reason of there brands of justice,punisher is best explained as a character in the max series (preferbly garth ennis). Now I'm not a huge batman fan,but I am a huge HUGE punisher fan and the punisher operates on a very black and white justice system,but in my opinion franks methods are necessary but still wrong.
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#5 Posted by Chaos Burn (1898 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno, i was supportive of  Punisher's killings, but then i watched the film where he shoots an undercover cop, and it made me think that Punisher is taking the risk of killing an innocent person alot of the time
Yes people should be punished, sometimes to the extreme, but as soon as Punisher accidently kills an innocent person, he is no better than the criminals he is slaughtering

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#6 Posted by MTHarman (824 posts) - - Show Bio

Technically its not, but its nice to see somebody in comics doing what some Marvel fans wish to see.
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#7 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23389 posts) - - Show Bio

It annoys me when people say that Batman should kill the criminals. It's not his responsibility to do so, it's the Courts, but so long as they remain entirely useless, then the Punisher's route is the right one.

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#8 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8935 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the Punisher as a character and I like reading his stories, but in my opinion...
No, Punisher is wrong. He's a serial killer that should be locked away somewhere he could never get out.  That's part of who he is as a character.
 
You cannot place yourself as judge, jury and executioner. That criminals escape is not the fault of a hero, it's the fault of the system not doing it's job. And it's the fault of bad writing using PIS by making the people who run the prisons in comics to be total idiots. If the writers wrote their prison personnel and law enforcement agents in an intelligent manner, then a lot of stuff that happens in comic would never have. 
 
But no, Punisher is definitively wrong.

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#9 Posted by NexusOfLight (1733 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach: Totally agree. 
 
Now on the subject of the court system, is it all plot induced stupidity? Comic books usually reflect the trends of the world outside the covers. In real life, criminals do certainly get out of jail, and some go back to their old ways. Is the fact that the same thing happens in comics bad writing or more or less the writers trying to make a statement on the system in general? Now I won't deny, some of the things that happen in comics really is PIS and unrealistic, but hey writer's aren't all perfect. Regardless, the question still stands.
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#10 Posted by Son_of_Magnus (15463 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a Batman view on Super heroism no killing no matter what

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#11 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8935 posts) - - Show Bio
@NexusOfLight said:
" @Crom-Cruach: Totally agree.  Now on the subject of the court system, is it all plot induced stupidity? Comic books usually reflect the trends of the world outside the covers. In real life, criminals do certainly get out of jail, and some go back to their old ways. Is the fact that the same thing happens in comics bad writing or more or less the writers trying to make a statement on the system in general? Now I won't deny, some of the things that happen in comics really is PIS and unrealistic, but hey writer's aren't all perfect. Regardless, the question still stands. "
I think it's clear that it's PIS. Someone like Joker would have been executed in a Federal court a long time ago. And even if he wasn't, it's impossible to believe that a prison could not be designed to hold super-villains when you have organizations like Shield in MArvel with access to super-tech, magical super-hero allies and cosmics. Really the only reason prisons are run like they are in many comics is because the writers want to reuse villains while making the hero look good catching them. So they let the hero show his awesome by defeating him and sending him to jail. then they run the whole justice system with impossible idiocy to create a scenario where it's plausible for the villain to return.
 
All the while with the caveat that the justice system is as good as in the real world and every law abiding hero believing it. Even if from the readers perspective, evidence is there that it isn't true.
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#12 Posted by NexusOfLight (1733 posts) - - Show Bio
@Crom-Cruach: Good answer. I'm willing to go with that.
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#13 Posted by Green Skin (2943 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Punisher is right.  Sometimes scum bags just need to be taken out of the equation once and for all.  The law system is so full of bureaucratic red tape and corruption that you need someone acting outside of the system like Punisher does.  Though he's still killing folks, and he's just as guilty as the people he deals with.

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#14 Edited by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher isnt driven by any kind of morality, hes driven by his desire to kill and to fight a war for the rest of his life. This is the core idea  of Garth Ennis's version, if you read the marvel knights and max stories, you catch the subtle moments that really define the charcter. Its not right or wrong, its just who he is. Call him a hero and he wouldnt care. Call him a murderer and he'd most likely agree with you. The question on whether what he does is right or wrong is pretty much null and void if you understand every aspect of the character. If you can see all the parts of who he is and how he came to be, you'll see what rings most true to who Frank Castle really is. I think he is the best character marvel has because of  the moral ambiguity.
  
If im looking at it from a more personal point of view, i agree with the idea that some people are truely, unforgivably evil, and dont deserve a place in the world, but i still believe its up to the proper authority's  to deal with them.  Saying the law is forever tied up with red tape and bullshit is only a half truth, the worst kind of criminals are still executed by the state. Criminals forever breaking out  to kill again is only a storytelling tool, its not real or realistic in any way. If a jury says your guilty, you go to jail, no deals, no escape, no nothing. If your a serious criminal, they will definitely put you away for a long time. The only people they ever let out of jail are the ones that are rehabilitated. They wont let out a serial killer.   Major drug dealers such as George Jung for example go away for at least 20 years at a time.The only time the beurocratic crap is applied is in cases no one can help, such as in the american ghettos tied up in the drug trade. Places like that, crime is pretty much a way of life. Im not condoning it, its just the way it is.  That said, i do believe in vigilantism as a course of action, but it cant be an excuse to fulfil personal needs (The Punisher), it has to be dedicated to the protection of society (Batman).
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#15 Posted by jamesewelch (677 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think you can use real life morals to compare to comic book morals of fictional characters.
 
Both Batman and Punisher's styles are wrong when viewed by real life justice and legal system. Vigilantism isn't a valid legal means and both of them (and almost all super-heroes) break real world laws. The comic book worlds/universes operate on a different moral system, so you have to view their actions within that world and not to our real life world.
 
When viewed through DCU, Batman is a good guy and would be considered doing the "right thing."
 
When viewed through Marvel 616, Punisher is a anti-hero (aka bad guy) and would be considered doing the "wrong thing." However, since he mostly kills villains, other heroes and police mostly overlook his actions even though they know Punisher is wrong.

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#16 Posted by karrob (4305 posts) - - Show Bio
@bringdeath said:
" well you have to understans the mythos and reason of there brands of justice,punisher is best explained as a character in the max series (preferbly garth ennis). Now I'm not a huge batman fan,but I am a huge HUGE punisher fan and the punisher operates on a very black and white justice system,but in my opinion franks methods are necessary but still wrong. "
Well said. I agree with that
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#17 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (8418 posts) - - Show Bio

Morally gray, in the extreme.

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#18 Posted by Rosebunse (156 posts) - - Show Bio
@kev17:
You probably summed it up best. Again to everyone who doesn't get it: The Punisher isn't suppose to be a hero or a villan. We can't say he's one way or another. So please don't turn this into death penalty debate.
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#19 Posted by Nerx (15350 posts) - - Show Bio

He should aim more to people above the law like corrupt politicians instead of those scumbags

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#20 Posted by The Impersonator (8500 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with Punisher's way of justice. He's a vigilante unlike Batman who never kills.
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#21 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher is right. 
 
If Batman had killed The Joker in his first appearance, literally thousands of lives would have been saved.

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#22 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23389 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:
" Punisher is right.   If Batman had killed The Joker in his first appearance, literally thousands of lives would have been saved. "
But the greatest human being that's ever lived would be completely corrupted, and millions would have died.
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#23 Posted by DELBERT (95 posts) - - Show Bio

i think sometimes i wish batman could kill criminals sometime to but , i dont want people to think he is one of them , after joson todd many heroes would just kill the joker but batman didnt that is willpower there

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#24 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @InnerVenom123 said:
" Punisher is right.   If Batman had killed The Joker in his first appearance, literally thousands of lives would have been saved. "
But the greatest human being that's ever lived would be completely corrupted, and millions would have died. "
Millions of bad people dead. Good riddance.
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#25 Posted by Gennadius (265 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nerx:
I think there was a issue where he dealed with corrupt business-men (with baracuda).
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#26 Posted by Magian (152451 posts) - - Show Bio

It takes way more willpower and inner strength not to kill someone. If Batman had killed Joker, yes more people might would be alive today, but he wouldn't be the Batman we know anymore.
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#27 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23389 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @InnerVenom123 said:
" Punisher is right.   If Batman had killed The Joker in his first appearance, literally thousands of lives would have been saved. "
But the greatest human being that's ever lived would be completely corrupted, and millions would have died. "
Millions of bad people dead. Good riddance. "

I agree with you, mate. In the real world, courts don't work, and the Punisher's way is right. But in the comics, if Batman killed once; darkness would consume him. It wouldn't just be the bad people that he killed. Not to mention he wouldn't have been there to save the world so many times. All in all, by not killing, Batman has saved millions, even billions, that if he became a threat that the JL had to put down.
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#28 Posted by Gennadius (265 posts) - - Show Bio

I think what the punisher does Is great you cant stop Villians etc by sending them to prison (spidey/batman) but actually by getting rid of them/scaring them. 
I mean if spidey would catch me I would be like yeah web me up ill get out anyway but if the punisher would show up I would crap in my pants XD. 
 
Maybe the goverment should hire some mercenary's or train people to do undercover killings like the punisher does. 
 
And hell if someone would murder my entire family I would join the forces get some skills learn how to work with weapons and do the same stuff he does. 
(kinda wondering if there ever excisted someone like the punisher IRL.)
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#29 Posted by Brit (419 posts) - - Show Bio

 Frank is not fighting for justice or for what is right or wrong, he just kills the bad guys. With that there will be results: those whom the bad guys hurt are avenged and those that will be hurt are protected. He just punishes the corrupt.

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#30 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher's way in the marvel universe is the correct way I mean let's think about it for a moment.  If spiderman dealt the same kind of punishment as frank does there would've been no Norman Osborn there would've been no Dark Reign thousands of lives would've been saved and yet spiderman is stupid enough to believe that Frank is wrong.  If the so called "superheroes" did things frank's way there would be no Carnage, Dr. Doom, Hydra, Loki, Kingpin, Magneto, Hood, etc.  They would've been killed right off the bat and the marvel universe would be a very safe place to live.  Now that would suck for us readers but it goes to show that the superheroes are super retarded. 
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#31 Posted by Kairan1979 (27388 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with Punisher's way to deliver justice. The system is too corrupt. I don't remember the last time supervillain got executed. They just throw them to prisons, and they immediately escape. Or cut the deal with the system and get released by giving information on the inmates or working in black ops teams like Suicide Squad.
So we need the men like Punisher or Rorshach to deal with the monsters permanently. "Criminals get locked up. Dogs get put down".

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#32 Posted by Captain_Justice95 (437 posts) - - Show Bio

If both were real Punisher would be right but in comic's im going with Batman. You cant just kill off classic characters for the right of a fictional world.
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#33 Posted by MrUnknown (1727 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Punisher is right but not everyone should get the same punishment. For example murder and robbery don't equate the same punishment.

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#34 Edited by virgin4life (502 posts) - - Show Bio

batman is a real dandy if you ask me
 
everyone who defends him is a pretentious, tree-hugging, vegan.... enjoy driving your hybrid car at 40km/h

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#35 Posted by gravitypress (2102 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher's justice is the way.

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