one of marvels worst?

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#1 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio

can someone please explain to me why punisher is seen so highly in the marvel universe? 
hes just a jarhead, whos good with guns. 
no serum 
no radioactive exposure 
no special poweers
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#2 Posted by John Valentine (16466 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy said:
" hes just a jarhead, whos good with guns. no serum no radioactive exposure no special poweers "
That's why he's awesome.
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#3 Edited by brc2000 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

You mean "highly" in terms of threat level, or highly as in he's popular? If it's the latter , I feel sorry for you since you think that you have to have powers to be a good character.

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#4 Edited by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@brc2000:
ok i mean in popularity, and i dont think powers make heroes good, i liek heroes such as batman and green lantern, who are powerless. i just dont think he shoiuld go up against some of marvels finest, say venom, spiderman, deadpool, etc.
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#5 Posted by Power NeXus (10283 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy said:
"@brc2000: ok i mean in popularity, and i dont think powers make heroes good, i liek heroes such as batman and green lantern, who are powerless. i just dont think he shoiuld go up against some of marvels finest, say venom, spiderman, deadpool, etc. "


..... 
 
Are we talking about the same Green Lantern?
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#6 Edited by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@Power NeXus:
im not so good on dc but im sure that green lantern power derives from his ring, a gadget pretty much. without it hes just a regular guy
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#7 Posted by crimsonspider89 (815 posts) - - Show Bio

Not exactly. To wield a green lantern ring, you have to have incredible willpower. 

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#8 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@crimsonspider89:
and would you call willpower a superpower? 
a mother could have incredible willpower.
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#9 Posted by brc2000 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, I think his militrary training and high tech weaponry gives him the edge over a lot of the non-powered humans and street level metas. Anyway he's no longer and ordinary human, at least for the time being.

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#10 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio

@brc2000:
regardless Hal is powerless, and John is too, except for the amazing power of "WILL", but were talking about punisher, i just want to hear different oppinions i think hes overhyped.

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#11 Posted by brc2000 (1686 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry I meant that for Punisher not GL.

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#12 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio

k
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#13 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not think highly of Punisher at all. 

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#14 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio

yea but hes got his own movie and put against marvel heroes who could easily own him

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#15 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy said:
"

yea but hes got his own movie and put against marvel heroes who could easily own him

"
He has had a few of his own movies, all of which were terrible. I seriously do not know why they bother to keep him around. He was an okay concept at first but he really should have died a long time ago. His first fight with Wolverine should have been like his fight with Daken. It should have ended him. 
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#16 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4172 posts) - - Show Bio
@erik: Ya and that fight was before Wolverine was this end all be all super mutant. Punisher is an excellent character because he doesn't have powers and bests those who do. Yes he beats a lot of characters he shouldn't, but so does Batman. But in recent times Punisher has been over exposed to the more super side of the spectrum, I like him better as he's portrayed in the MAX line.
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#17 Posted by Son_of_Magnus (15463 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not a Punisher fan

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#18 Posted by geraldthesloth (32690 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a huge Punisher fan.

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#19 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" I'm a huge Punisher fan. "
SLLLLLOOOOOTHHHHHH!!!!
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#20 Posted by geraldthesloth (32690 posts) - - Show Bio
@erik said:
" @geraldthesloth said:
" I'm a huge Punisher fan. "
SLLLLLOOOOOTHHHHHH!!!! "
ERRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!
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#21 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" @erik said:
" @geraldthesloth said:
" I'm a huge Punisher fan. "
SLLLLLOOOOOTHHHHHH!!!! "
ERRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!! "
Lol.
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#22 Edited by They Killed Cap! (2268 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy:
People like him because he is edgy. They released him because showed well in his guest appearances. He took off because he could do things that other superheros couldn't (kill and kill violently).  
 
He has kinda flatlined. With him it is often the same old story. Move into an area wipe out all the losers pick fights and get beat up occasionally.  
 
As a charecter I think he has lost a lot of his interesting X factor because there are a lot of charecters that do what he does, and many of them have very good stories to go with it. There are only so many times that killing drug lords, mobsters and revenge acts are interesting. Then it gets old.
 
He is a good charecter but I think he is a good supporting charecter more than anything. I thought he was great in his portion of Civil War, but on his own he is boring to me now. I really do believe that there are few good stand alone charecters. 
 
His movies have been pretty good though.
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#23 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19151 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" I'm a huge Punisher fan. "
High Five
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#24 Posted by jamesewelch (677 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm also a big Punisher fan. As for reasons why he's so popular, I think everyone's already listed them. As a normal person (well, normal compared to super powered heroes/villains in Marvel universe), he's stood his ground for a few decades now. He also has a cool logo that works well on shirts and marketing materials. He's had 3 movies, none of which were highly rated nor highly received by critics or fans. 
 
Also, the Punisher's popularity currently isn't selling a lot of issues. Take a look at Diamond's top 500 comics list for Dec 09 (Jan not out yet). Punisher (616) is pretty low there. I think it's around 25k per month. Punisher issue #12 was ranked #84 for December. That's below Archie (#83), Buffy the Vampire Slayer (#38), and Spider-Woman (#71).
 
As a long time follower, I jumped off the 616 Punisher boat and landed on the MAX Punisher (PunisherMAX). The Punisher fits great into the MAX universe. I'm not fond of the current 616 Frankencastle concept, so that title was kicked off my pull list and replaced with PunisherMAX. Luckily, PunisherMAX #1 came out just as the Frankencastle story-arch started. Redemer can write anything he wants about Punisher - I'm not knocking his writing nor the artwork, I just already know what I like about Frank and that's not it, so I choose to buy another Punisher title to get my Punisher fix.
 
As for a non-super powered hero/anti-hero getting along with supers, just look at Nick Fury. Punisher is basically a mix between Nick Fury and the opposite of Captain America (Steve Rodgers) using the anti-hero archetype.
 
I believe there's a place for the Punisher in 616, but I don't know if there's a current writer willing to reboot the current series and put him back alongside the supers. I'd loved to have seen him team up with Nick Fury in some sort of secret military/spy like team to infiltrate and destroy bad guys, but a writer would need to get Frank back to being somewhat mentally stable and work through some of his angry management issues. Maybe Frank can talk to whoever Moon Knight talked with to get his senses back. Heh, maybe Moon Knight should tell Frank which psychologist to see to work through his issues.

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#25 Posted by Donovan Montgomery (5752 posts) - - Show Bio

I was a Punisher fan.   Welcome to Punisher Annonymous ;P 
Anyway, what I liked about him, and why I think he's lasted as long as he has, is the fact that he does not just go out and shoot 'em up, he plans his attacks.  He can "believably" hang with the low level supers because he prepares himself for them, I think he's more like Batman could have been if he were Marvel instead of DC.  Obviously he's not as smart or rich as Bats and he started his career much later in life. This explains why he can't go fist to fist with Bats and expect to win without "cheating" even then it's iffy.  But I do think he could take Bats unawares if he prepared for it. 
As for stories to be told with him, I also think him working with others like Fury, or other street levelers would make for more intresting reads.  The problem with this is he goes for the regular crimelords and stays (mostly) out of the scope of other hero's.  Have him do like in the Marvel Knight's, when he finds something to big for him to handle bring in the big guns, with or without them knowing.
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#26 Posted by They Killed Cap! (2268 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donovan Montgomery:
I think I would equate him with Batman...I didn't think about that. He is Batman but more twisted and slightly less skilled. He relys on his violence rather than his skills. I don't really think he is out to scare people as much as he is out for revenge.
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#27 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio

Hes marvels most psychologically interesting character. He doesnt need any overly elaborate superpowers to be better than most of marvels output. PLEASE Note my opinion  of the punisher is based on garth ennis stories, not certain recent goings on involving the character.
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#28 Posted by Gold Dust Boi (629 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah i have to say Punisher is sort of a one dimensional character.  OK im sorry your family is dead(how many years ago) and thanks for killing all those gangsters.....now what else you got for me?  Oh youre gonna kill a mob boss now...ok thats a little better....anything else? no? thats youre whole bag of tricks??
 
i mean really guys...he doesnt need powers to make him a good character but hes not really that good a character anyway so why not try giving him some powers for a while.  But yeah just driving around killing criminals is not only boring but somehow inherently wrong and doesnt make him much of a hero (or an anti-hero) because murdering murderers...just makes you a murderer

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#29 Posted by DEGRAAF (8425 posts) - - Show Bio

i think it is his determination that people like. I for one dont like him at all. He should have been eaten or killed off long ago.
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#30 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

some times crazy is a super power

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#31 Posted by Anjales_II (1026 posts) - - Show Bio


Well if u red the origins of the Punisher, it may indicate that he made a deal with some entity that may have some increased strength, speed and awerness...and that combined with his "addiction" to war and death and his mastery with all kinds of weaponry make him somewhat of a super-human.

To me i am a huge punisher fan..though some of his stories are starting to get old..but he's still cool..but what is more interesting about the Punisher more than his adventures..its his phsyke..its really interesting to enter "the mind of vigilante" and start seeing what sees or think what he thinks...that's why i like the MAX series more...+ i like blood and gore:P

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#32 Edited by tensor (8605 posts) - - Show Bio

punisher is good give him his dues the guy made 1of the best what ifs to me

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#33 Posted by Jotham (4577 posts) - - Show Bio

As I heard someone say once: "The Punisher's superpower is he's super angry all the time."
 
Personally I like the Punisher and I think he's an interesting character but he doesn't really fit in with the rest of the Marvel universe. I do, however, think it's believable that he can hold his own against Wolverine and Spider-Man just because he's such an unbelievably crafty and ruthless SOB.

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#34 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

barracuda was one of my favorite comic stories
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#35 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@They Killed Cap!:
i have comics when he is only featured in, i have glanced at some punisher comics and the writing and illustration makes you knockout. in all comics where is featured, hes seen as an annoying pest always messin up the heroes plan by recklessely doing things. i think hes way to overated and hes put against people that could own him.
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#36 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donovan Montgomery:
from what i seen punisher is the exact opposite of crafty. he just does things as a vigilante, runnin and gunnin people up
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#37 Posted by robokungfu (183 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher wasn't just a Marine, he was Marine 1st RECON.  You have to have superior physicality and intelligence to be one and not just "some jarhead."   He's no less crafty about his slaughter of dirtbags than Batman is about the head busting of gotham's worst.  I'll admit his origin story cut and dry isn't  that interesting, but it's his hatred and tenacity about killing the bad guys that keeps him solid.  He's willing to go where his spandex-ed colleagues could never go.  Time and time again he can hold his own against Marvel's toughest.  My favorite occasion is a run-in with Wolverine where Castle fights figures the only way to pin him down to lose the scent is to park a steamroller on top of Wolverine.  This is of course after Castle has to take Logan out at the genitals with a baseball bat and later an uzi.  Find yourself a copy of Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe as well.  It's a non-canon one shot but so fun.  

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#38 Edited by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
hmm.... i think Frank Castle is a great character but he doesnt fit in with the spandex set. he really shouldnt be fighting high or mid metas and surviving. he is a great character for Max/knight stories just not in the greater world of marvel even with his best military weapons. he should be easily apprehended by the various heroes. i know prior to the frankencastle he had gained access to higher gadgets and technology although amusing it takes away from the character and seriously alters the marvel stories and characters...
 
i find it sad that some readers look at ennis punisher run and think the characters were  written  consistent and was a plausible outcome for punisher when he was facing various marvel heroes.... outside of PIS and completely out of character which wasnt even cis on or off but something worse that needs a new name, Punisher shouldnt have bn able to survive wolverine let alone manage to have time to steamroll logan..... Logan is a tracker he can track ppl by scent alone that is not using his other tracking skills and tech access, punisher can not evade and hide no matter how hard he tries. the best he could do is slow him down for a few hours and days at best and that is if Punisher actually stayed on the run using vehicles ect ect..
 
that punisher story belongs in the same area with other non canon mini's or one shots. along with snikt, pun kills marvel U, frank dies and is an angel....Lobo and his insane mini's and else worlds alongside hitman.....
 
 so in conclusion Punisher can be viewed as one of marvel's worse attempts to make him part of the MU main stream... but minus the newer  character upgrades and complete retarded story of ennis run.... he is still a good character but he needs to stay in his corner of the MU near the streets and stop trying to fight guys out of his league and writers need to stop allowing him to  look good while doing it..
 

 
 
 

Spiderman should be able to web him up in under three minutes... Deadpool should have killed him by accident in the 1st 10 seconds of the fight let alone on purpose, popusely shooting his uzi's, grenades, building explosions, tech swords, self destruct and teleporting....
 
punisher  should last a while against BE and score some wins but lets be honest one tooth pick or dime shot eventually would hit him and kill him he isnt DD after all in reflex...

 Daredevil after a good have hour chase and back and fourth beating and DD just tired of him should be able to just cold cock him. DD should be the highest he goes against the pajama set everyone else should murder him like he was just another goon/cannon fodder..

punisher is just overrated over written and characters suffer b/c of him they are in turn under written and under valued to make a story where frank can look semi good which even then he shouldnt even look semi good in a fight against a hero.
 
i think that  is the problem with a lot of characters and story telling today they are put in stories they have no business being in and change characters personalities and ignore continuity and slap across the face to past writer just for their 5 min. of story telling fame.
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#39 Posted by joshmightbe (27562 posts) - - Show Bio

i think punisherMAX is where the character really shines its a world devoid of super powers and frank is aging and knows his days a numbered i agree his place in the mainstream marvel U has been minimalized and frankencastle is just embarassing and kind of insulting to fans of the character. Frank is a great character, deeply flawed tho he can be heroic at times at its core his story is a revenge story honestly ive always believed he wants to die he just doesnt have it in him to kill himself

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#40 Posted by Vathers (88 posts) - - Show Bio
@Anjales said:
"


Well if u red the origins of the Punisher, it may indicate that he made a deal with some entity that may have some increased strength, speed and awerness...and that combined with his "addiction" to war and death and his mastery with all kinds of weaponry make him somewhat of a super-human.

To me i am a huge punisher fan..though some of his stories are starting to get old..but he's still cool..but what is more interesting about the Punisher more than his adventures..its his phsyke..its really interesting to enter "the mind of vigilante" and start seeing what sees or think what he thinks...that's why i like the MAX series more...+ i like blood and gore:P

"
 
You are referring of course to the origins of The Punisher being the BORN series.  A four part mini-set of how the Punisher got through the war before coming home and witnessing what was to be the price of survival.  It showcases on page 15 in the fourth issue of the BORN set for the Punisher - a deal made between him and someone speaking to him telepathically.  Frank, is thought to be unaware of this other presence throughout the entire set until of course the bottom of the page in that issue on the 15th sheet.  The other entity promises Castle this at Fire base Valley Forge in return for something Frank is going to have to exchange his life for.
 
The following is an excerpt of the conversation as it unfolds.
 
*Castle is killing groups of the Vietnamese with everything he's got.  Including, an E-Tool also known as a collapsible shovel bashing skulls apart, sending blood and bone fragments through the air as he is the last surviving member of his outfit.  Fighting for his life, and surrounded by the enemy.  Killing and killing and killing, the entity pleas with Frank to save his life.  So close to death but he is stealing the very lives of these evil people away from them.  He hates them, you can see it in his eyes.  He hates them all.  There will never be peace, this war cannot stop now.  There are evil men in the world still living, and he must bring a wrath upon them all.*
 
 
EXACT PAGE VERBATIM:

"I can give it to you Frank.  There'll be a price but nothing's free.  Say no and you'll be one more K.I.A. on a hill that no one cared about.  Say yes -- and I'll give you what you wanted all these years.  But you have to say it.  Say it, SAY IT.  A war that lasts forever, a war that never ends but YOU HAVE TO SAY THE WORD FRANK!"
 
With blood dripping from his face, filling his eyes, and running down his body.  Spitting the word out with blood gushing through his teeth.   Castle grins and says.
 
"YES."
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#41 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King:
thats the point im tring to make, he goes against whats seen as MU mainstream, and puts up a fight and looks good while doing it. its wak
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#42 Posted by bringdeath (283 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy said:
"@Dark King: thats the point im tring to make, he goes against whats seen as MU mainstream, and puts up a fight and looks good while doing it. its wak "

pick the max series ,i have not and will not read th mu arcs thats just not frank .
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#43 Posted by Dynamo8 (463 posts) - - Show Bio

What makes Punisher so highly badass or whatever you want to lable him? Well he kills alot compared heroes and vilains put together. The only time the Punisher was really badass was in the 90s (i think the early and late 90s) after 2000s, everything just went kinda down hill. though his movie ain't half bad.

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#44 Posted by FLCL1 (9479 posts) - - Show Bio
@geraldthesloth said:
" I'm a huge Punisher fan. "
me too i like him
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#45 Posted by CharmCityComics (29 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy:
The same reason Batman is a rich guy with a mommy and daddy are dead complex that has too much time and money. Besides revenge stories are always good.
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#46 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@bringdeath:
what do you mean mu arcs?
are you talking about the 616 punisher?
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#47 Posted by bringdeath (283 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy:
Yea 616 my bad
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#48 Posted by JaYDaFuRy (170 posts) - - Show Bio
@bringdeath:
if you dont follow the original punisher, 616 i mean  and you have to follow another universe to see him actually doing something, what is that saying about him?
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#49 Posted by bringdeath (283 posts) - - Show Bio
@JaYDaFuRy:
I follow the max ,I started  with 616 and it just was'nt for me The max is the only thing I read with the punisher lately and I love it I agree with you when you say he does'nt belong in the superhero universe I think the max is the definitive punisher.
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#50 Posted by TheRedHelm (25 posts) - - Show Bio

Punisher's killed Jack O' Lantern, Spider man, Almost the Joker, The Fly, And some of the Skrull Avengers. He's not hyped. The reason he's seen as popular is because he represents the ultimatim of justice. He's probably one of the most original written characters in existance as well. Oh, and he killed The Marvel Universe.

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