Franks Legacy

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#1 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

Every character has some one else pick up there mantle one time or another and with Frank being old (What is he? 60?) who do you think could take over from him as the Punisher? 

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#2 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4172 posts) - - Show Bio

There really hasn't been anyone that popped up in the MAX series that can foreseeablely take his place. In the "future" of the mainstream Marvel he's had children who have taken over for him. I remember one, can't remember the issue, but it was his daughter (with Black Widow) was teaching her son how to take over the family business.

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#3 Posted by ZORN (1560 posts) - - Show Bio

Lynn Micheals took over for him once, though the book mostly focused on her, and Frank was nowhere to be seen if I recall correctly, and then there is 2099 when some dude found Castle's war journal, and became the Punisher of the future.

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#4 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nova`Prime` said:
There really hasn't been anyone that popped up in the MAX series that can foreseeablely take his place. In the "future" of the mainstream Marvel he's had children who have taken over for him. I remember one, can't remember the issue, but it was his daughter (with Black Widow) was teaching her son how to take over the family business.
Her name was   Cassondra Castle and she was the daughter of Frank Castle and Elektra.  It's possible Frank's daughter in MAX might take her father's mantle but since the comic is in real time that would be a very long time from now.  



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#5 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank's age has been rejuvenated to mid 30s in the 616 universe due to the bloodstone.
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#6 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4172 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984 said:
@Nova`Prime` said:
There really hasn't been anyone that popped up in the MAX series that can foreseeablely take his place. In the "future" of the mainstream Marvel he's had children who have taken over for him. I remember one, can't remember the issue, but it was his daughter (with Black Widow) was teaching her son how to take over the family business.
Her name was   Cassondra Castle and she was the daughter of Frank Castle and Elektra.  It's possible Frank's daughter in MAX might take her father's mantle but since the comic is in real time that would be a very long time from now.  



Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't exactly sure who the mother was. Does Frank have any children in the MAX verse? I don't recall any, I know most of the women he gets close to usually end up dead. To be honest I think for the MAX titles I think it should really be someone he grooms to take over for him.
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#7 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nova`Prime` said:
@cody1984 said:
@Nova`Prime` said:
There really hasn't been anyone that popped up in the MAX series that can foreseeablely take his place. In the "future" of the mainstream Marvel he's had children who have taken over for him. I remember one, can't remember the issue, but it was his daughter (with Black Widow) was teaching her son how to take over the family business.
Her name was   Cassondra Castle and she was the daughter of Frank Castle and Elektra.  It's possible Frank's daughter in MAX might take her father's mantle but since the comic is in real time that would be a very long time from now.  



Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't exactly sure who the mother was. Does Frank have any children in the MAX verse? I don't recall any, I know most of the women he gets close to usually end up dead. To be honest I think for the MAX titles I think it should really be someone he grooms to take over for him.
Frank had a child with   Kathryn O'Brien she's only a baby though.  It would be years before she could even take up his mantle since his MAX comic is in real time.  Also considering that Frank doesn't want to train any replacement it would have to be someone just following in his foot steps figuring things out as they go.  So it would either be someone random taking up his mantle or his daughter at this point in MAX.  Possibly both could happen where somebody takes it up if Frank is killed then maybe his daughter.  Although I doubt the MAX comic would continue long enough without Frank being the Punisher for us to see something like that happening.   
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#8 Posted by Gennadius (265 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess If someone would take up his ''mantle'' it would be in the style of batman beyond.

He would seek out a young adult (who's family was brutally murdered) with experience and kinda guide him.
Or Jigsaw's son is going to become the new punisher/ build punisher bots

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#9 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio

no one. The Punisher is not a mantle like captain america or a symbol like batman. There can be only one, as the saying goes.

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#10 Posted by PowerHerc (86188 posts) - - Show Bio


No mantle-passing here.

Frank's mission is his alone.  When he dies; it dies with him.

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#11 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
@kev17 said:
no one. The Punisher is not a mantle like captain america or a symbol like batman. There can be only one, as the saying goes.
@PowerHerc said:


No mantle-passing here.

Frank's mission is his alone.  When he dies; it dies with him.

I'd rather Frank stay around but the idea someone else wouldn't become the Punisher after his death is pretty unfounded.  Lynn Michaels for a while was doing it in the 2099 comics his daughter and that one guy did it.  So it's possible someone would take on the mantle of the Punisher. 
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#12 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I could put on a skull and say i was the punisher. Would i be worthy of the original? No way. Mantle passing works with Batman because he is essentially a very human character, The Punisher is not. Frank Castle is a force of nature and is not replaceable. Not in any good way.

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#13 Posted by PowerHerc (86188 posts) - - Show Bio

@cody1984

I'm not saying that no one will swipe, copy or take up his legacy in their own way.  I'm saying that his mission, his motivation, his drive - will all end with him.  He won't be grooming someone to replace him and he won't give anyone his endorsement.  So anyone trying to pick up his mantle really isn't continuing his mission; they're starting their own (albeit without being original enough to create their own persona).

 

Ironically, Frank wouldn't care either way; he's too practical and unsentimental (about anything except his slain family) to give a shit about any "mantle" once he's dead. 

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#14 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc: Exactly. He s not trying to create anthing, the punisher is not a pet project to him, its just a name thats been put on him, Hed do what hes doing now even if he didnt have it.
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#15 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
@kev17 said:

Man, I could put on a skull and say i was the punisher. Would i be worthy of the original? No way. Mantle passing works with Batman because he is essentially a very human character, The Punisher is not. Frank Castle is a force of nature and is not replaceable. Not in any good way.

I'm not saying whoever would do so will be just like Frank in fact I'd find that incredibly hard to believe if some writer tried to do that.  I'm just saying someone could become the Punisher if Frank died and stayed dead.  The person doing so would most likely be a pale imitation of Frank.

@PowerHerc said:    

@cody1984

I'm not saying that no one will swipe, copy or take up his legacy in their own way.  I'm saying that his mission, his motivation, his drive - will all end with him.  He won't be grooming someone to replace him and he won't give anyone his endorsement.  So anyone trying to pick up his mantle really isn't continuing his mission; they're starting their own (albeit without being original enough to create their own persona).

 

Ironically, Frank wouldn't care either way; he's too practical and unsentimental (about anything except his slain family) to give a shit about any "mantle" once he's dead. 

I'm not disagreeing about the motivation at all and his drive at all.  

In his war journal Frank has stated "You who find this I charge you to carry on my work."  So he's not as against the idea of someone picking up his war after he is gone.     

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#16 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984: That story was written in the nineties. The character has changed since then.
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#17 Posted by PowerHerc (86188 posts) - - Show Bio

@kev17
That's exactly right.  He's absolutley obsessed with his mission. 

He doesn't give a damn what the media, the law, the government, villains, heroes, the public or anyone else thinks.  He just wants payback for personal reasons.

 

"Punisher" is a name that was put on him.  He didn't pick it, he didn't ask for it, but he'll use for whatever purpose or value he can get out of it.  Aside from that; he doesn't give a damn about the name or so-called Punisher "mantle."

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#18 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
@kev17 said:
@cody1984: That story was written in the nineties. The character has changed since then.
True but its still part of his history though.  Granted he gunned down Elite, the Holy, and mister payback for being vigilantes that still doesn't mean he doesn't want anyone continuing his war.  


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#19 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984:  I get what your saying man, its very possible someone would succeed frank, but as you said yourself, hed be a pale imitation. So what would be the point of the story?
Someone could easily decide to become the punisher after him, but it would be pointless story wise. Itd be a character the original wouldnt give a crap about, and a character the fans wouldnt care about. It wouldnt have any real satisfying payoff, just by what the punisher has become character wise.
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#20 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:

@kev17
That's exactly right.  He's absolutley obsessed with his mission. 

He doesn't give a damn what the media, the law, the government, villains, heroes, the public or anyone else thinks.  He just wants payback for personal reasons.

 

"Punisher" is a name that was put on him.  He didn't pick it, he didn't ask for it, but he'll use for whatever purpose or value he can get out of it.  Aside from that; he doesn't give a damn about the name or so-called Punisher "mantle."

It's not even personal reasons why the Punisher does what he does (I'm talking about 616 and MAX versions) .  If it was for personal reasons like revenge he would've stopped a long time ago.  He fights his war because he believes it needs to be done not out of a love for it although he does enjoy it somewhat.  
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#21 Posted by PowerHerc (86188 posts) - - Show Bio

@cody1984
Disagree.  He doesn't do it becasue he's good at it or because he enjoys it. 

He does it because it's the only thing that helps numb the pain he feels from the loss of his family and because, with them all horribly murdered, he coud never, ever, do anything else.

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio
@cody1984: I think theres two levels to the character of frank castle, neither of which are suitable for replacement. 
1 The ex marine who loved his family and killed criminals because of his loved ones murders. Since that happened his hatred and grief have consumed him, turning him into the The Punisher completly.
2 The ex marine  who fell in love with war in Vietnam and uses his familys deaths as an excuse to fight forever.
Both versions are true of the character, and are definitely personal reasons for Frank Castle to do what he does. On that level. simply replacing him is impossible. But on a superficial level, someone deciding to become the Punisher after his death is absoloutly possible, but would Frank Castle train him? Never. He'd probably kill him on the spot, in all likelihood. 
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#23 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:

@cody1984
Disagree.  He doesn't do it becasue he's good at it or because he enjoys it. 

He does it because it's the only thing that helps numb the pain he feels from the loss of his family and because, with them all horribly murdered, he coud never, ever, do anything else.

  His family has been dead for decades so the whole I lost my family and it still bothers me every day I find to be BS.  During Garth Ennis' run the Punisher Marvel Knights in the welcome back frank comic he even talks about that.  Granted it was to blow off the purgatory nonsense Marvel tried.  However in MAX as well he's not constantly going on about his wife and kids’ being dead since it has been years.  He's mourned them and yes he does miss them however their deaths are in no way shape or form what keeps him fighting his war.  What happened to him in Vietnam also had a major effect on the Punisher as well and is something the new writer Greg Rucka talked about somewhat that the Punisher isn't about revenge anymore since if he was he would've given up his war already.  He fights his war so people don't get away with it, or get a punishment that is to light.  That is the whole reasoning behind his war.  Does he enjoy killing some of the people he is up against?  Sure he sometimes does get satisfaction from killing but generally he doesn't get joy out of it.  

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#24 Posted by DarkMatter23 (90 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the proposed situation in question is really irrelevant to the modern day Punisher. Can't pass on a mantle if there isn't anyone there to extend the hand to receive it. Plus, "It's not that kinda of party", as they say.

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