Can Punisher still be famous without being in Vietnam?

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Posted by MTHarman (824 posts) - - Show Bio

Frank Castle A.K.A. The Punisher.

A vigilante hero who steps on the wrong side of law when ridding crime from the Marvel Universe and has successfully reached a massive fan-base with his dark and grim history. But a current discussion within Comicvine that asks about Punishers past being changed raises a unique question. Would Punisher still be famous if he wasn’t in Vietnam?

 

 
 

With that said, there comes the rare Punisher story known as “Born” that really defined Punishers history prior to his war against crime as the Punisher. Even though “Born” really convinced fans that Vietnam was the type of war that could build Punishers dark personality and vendetta, it could also be possible that a different origin could still build Punishers hatred for crime and maintain his fame with the fans. From being a simple patrol man to an employee at a local factory, it may be possible that whatever Frank Castle was before may not have any changes towards his current status (depending on who’s writing the story). But seeing how Marvel fans have loved and known Punisher as a man who stepped out of Vietnam before his vigilante career, we would never the true answer to the question.

 

But why is the media and other Punisher stories try to steer away from Punishers involvement with Vietnam?

From a few theories as to how Punisher’s origin is slowly being removed from Vietnam, first would involve the fact that Vietnam is a very sensitive and tragic war that many Americans were forced to fight in. Even though Vietnam wasn’t the source for Punisher’s character, it’s a fact that some would see differently. Much like the controversy for the film known as Rambo: First Blood, some viewers (mostly veterans) would probably see Punisher as a veteran who’s on a blood-thirsty rampage and out of control, even though that’s hardly the case. Another would be the time setting between now and when Vietnam took place, seeing how Punisher films took place within modern time, it would be hard to explain as to how Punisher is in his 70’s or 80’s when he’s obviously being played by an actor who hasn’t reached his 40’s or 50's yet. But from fearing controversy to unexplained timelines, we would never know as to why Marvel and the media tends to steer Punisher away from his Vietnam origins.

 

A solid character within Marvel Comics, Punisher has sat on several mistakes from Marvel writers and it could possibly be that his Vietnam origin and his current age may just be another hiccup that Marvel has accidentally created. Personally I believe that Punisher could still survive and be as famous as he currently is without his involvement in Vietnam, even though changing Punishers past now would probably receive a lot of disgruntle fans and a decrease with Comic sales. But despite what fans believe, Punisher was famous for what he did as the Punisher, not his involvement within Vietnam. Despite how many people think that Vietnam served his dark natured psychology, just about any man could step into that mindset because of a certain level of trauma and developed hatred.       

 

Thankyou for reading.    
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#1 Posted by Green Skin (2943 posts) - - Show Bio
@MTHarman:  
But why is the media and other Punisher stories try to steer away from Punishers involvement with Vietnam?  
 
Because it dates the character, and the further you get from Vietnam the less relevant it is to his backstory.
 
I honestly think him being in Vietnam is rather inconsequential.  The only really important part of his origin is that his family was gunned down and he became the Punisher to kill those responsible.
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#2 Posted by MTHarman (824 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:

" @MTHarman:  
But why is the media and other Punisher stories try to steer away from Punishers involvement with Vietnam?    Because it dates the character, and the further you get from Vietnam the less relevant it is to his backstory.  I honestly think him being in Vietnam is rather inconsequential.  The only really important part of his origin is that his family was gunned down and he became the Punisher to kill those responsible. "



"The only really important part of his origin is that his family was gunned down and he became the Punisher to kill those responsible." 
 Very true and I wish Marvel only stayed on that part of origin. 
   
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#3 Posted by PowerHerc (86188 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure he can.   
 
Marvel can just retcon Viet Nam out and retcon Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya in.   
His origin won't change significantly and newer readers will relate more. 
 
This isn't a new idea and it works when used judiciously.
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#4 Posted by KenTheProfile (420 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the problem with The Punisher is that rather stupidly Marvel has him under  rules about aging and the like. one thing that i love about Born is the idea that there is more going on with The pinisher. i never really thought that his family being gunned down was enought to fight a war on all crime.  they could also make him a mutant(slow aging) and not change anything about his past. Punisher needs a shot in the arm right now so they should just go for it.
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#5 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio

He doesnt have to have a floating age like every other character in Marvel. Let him be unique. If They want to change his  back story, they should do it in the inferior 616 stories, but leave the max series backstory alone.  And it is absoloutley essential he be  a Vietnam veteran. Thats his war. 

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#6 Posted by .o0Johnny0o. (770 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve Rogers/Frank Castle.
 
Same man, different war.

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#7 Posted by Jotham (4577 posts) - - Show Bio

The Vietnam War was a very strange and unique conflict for America, and Frank Castle is inextricably a product of that war. You can (and probably should) ignore the fact that he should be in his sixties now, but you can't just flat out contradict it.

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#8 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4172 posts) - - Show Bio

You know Frank usually gets his hands on some pretty interesting tech, could it be possible that Frank might have gotten himself injected with the Infinity Serum like Fury so he as basically stopped aging. It would explain why he doesn't get older and it is something that is believable.

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#9 Edited by Jotham (4577 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nova`Prime` said:

" You know Frank usually gets his hands on some pretty interesting tech, could it be possible that Frank might have gotten himself injected with the Infinity Serum like Fury so he as basically stopped aging. It would explain why he doesn't get older and it is something that is believable. "

Maybe, but I think a more likely explanation is that something happened to him during the time he was an avenging angel, or whatever the hell this was:

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Oh, I suppose you could argue Frankencastle reset his clock, too.
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#10 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6958 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course he can, after all, if I'm not mistaken, Noir Punisher was a World War I veteran and I still think he's pretty bad @$$.

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#11 Posted by MTHarman (824 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
"The Vietnam War was a very strange and unique conflict for America, and Frank Castle is inextricably a product of that war. You can (and probably should) ignore the fact that he should be in his sixties now, but you can't just flat out contradict it.

 
 
"

Best thing about comics is that they tend to bend the age rule, which isn't an issue yet for the Punisher. Problem with the age thing is that some would start to noticing a hiccup from Punisher's first appearance and years later with little or less change. Much like the issue with both Aunt May and Dr Conners son who's been twelve years old since Lizards first appearance in the sixties. It's likely that this age thing is something that Marvel would try avoid or fix, which also raises the question as to why he hasn't taken any age Serum yet. 
 
But as a veteran myself, you can't help but see differently when you see Punisher and a roomful of other Veterans who can barely walk on their own. Personally I could careless if Punisher was or wasn't in Vietnam, but it is an interesting thought knowing if he could survive in Marvel without being involved.
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#12 Posted by ZORN (1560 posts) - - Show Bio
@RedheadedAtrocitus said:
" Of course he can, after all, if I'm not mistaken, Noir Punisher was a World War I veteran and I still think he's pretty bad @$$. "
Actually his father was World War 1 veteran, but yeah Noir Punisher was still awesome, and Ultimate Frank was a cop, even though I don't like him that much, he's still bad @ss also.
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#13 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

They changed his age after the bloodstone healed him from being Franken-Castle. He's back to his early 30s from the healing process.

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#14 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6958 posts) - - Show Bio
@ZORN: Oh it was his dad, okay.  Well still, that story was among my favorite of the whole Marvel Noir thing and yes you're right, Castiglione was still pretty bad to the bone. Right on!
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#15 Posted by MTHarman (824 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:
"They changed his age after the bloodstone healed him from being Franken-Castle. He's back to his early 30s from the healing process. "

At least Marvel fixed the age thing with Punisher.
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#16 Posted by Jotham (4577 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:
" They changed his age after the bloodstone healed him from being Franken-Castle. He's back to his early 30s from the healing process. "
There we go. Thank God for Marvel editors, amirite?
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#17 Posted by atom895 (71 posts) - - Show Bio
i believe that punishers involvement in the vietnam war is a basis for who he is today. you dont steer captain america away from ww2( although ww2 and vietnam are different when it comes to the sensitivity of the subject) so why steer punisher away from vietnam. i think it adds to who he is as a character. those fateful missions is what created his thirst for warfare which is a basis for his methods of crime fighting.  the vietnam war was a harsh and unforgiving one but, it should be kept as one of the punishers most important experiences.by the way todays war is more harsh than vietnam in SOME ways but retconning the war castle fought in is not a good idea( he was a soldier before anything else).
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#18 Posted by cody1984 (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

No the punisher needs to have been in Vietnam it's to ingrained in the Punisher comics to have him all of a sudden not be a Vietnam Veteran.  The part about him possibly being a factory worker is just nonsense.   The amount of skill frank has would only come from military or law enforcement background.  Trying to paint him as some average background with some secret idenity like bugboy would just be stupid.       
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#19 Posted by deactivated-5af7470263a09 (372 posts) - - Show Bio
@.o0Johnny0o.: 
nah man. two completely different men full stop.

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