Anyone finding Frank in this ongoing a little too cheery?

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#1 Posted by Hit_Monkey (1402 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm enjoying this new series set in LA. However Punisher seems a little too balanced and almost cheery in his exchanges with other people. I grew up with Ennis's Punisher so it's a little jarring. Anyone else?

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#2 Posted by DaveThePunisher (33 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes I was thinking the exact same thing. He's all smiles and jokes at the diner and seems to be a little too light hearted. The action and violence are still there, but it doesn't match his attitude. I also think it's only a matter of time until Frank makes that girl cop at the diner his new girlfriend or something. A far cry from Ennis' whole "everyone Frank gets close to, dies" theme.

I wasn't a big fan of Rucka's first few books, but after 4 or 5, I really started loving it. I am hoping it is the same case for this run. Maybe they are making him more fan friendly? The Disney-ification of Frank Castle? Trying to lighten him up for an eventual Avengers movie tie-in? Or it could be just a comic decision... starting off him off cheery... and then slowly move him into that "serious, cold blooded soldier" that we have all grown to love.

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#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by Veshark (10499 posts) - - Show Bio

I read the first issue, and I kinda agree with the sentiment. Something felt a little off. Ennis' portrayal was always my favorite as well. He should be a little more straight-to-the-business in his dialogue and actions. Punisher never felt like the type to make small talk, I've always preferred him portrayed as this perfect soldier whose entire life revolves around his personal jihad. That's just my two cents, anyway. Punisher has always worked best in his own universe than with the larger MU far as I'm concerned.

@davethepunisher: @hit_monkey: Have either of you read Welcome Back Frank?

I haven't, but I've heard Ennis went for a more black-humor vibe with that. With stuff like polar-bear punching and what not.

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#5 Posted by DaveThePunisher (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Have I read Welcome Back Frank? Absolutely. But in Welcome Back Frank, Frank was serious and his surroundings were funny. In this new run, Frank is the funny guy. Completely different situation.

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#6 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Have I read Welcome Back Frank? Absolutely. But in Welcome Back Frank, Frank was serious and his surroundings were funny. In this new run, Frank is the funny guy. Completely different situation.

He's hardly a funny guy, it's not as if he's spouting one liners or anything he's just acting a bit more human.

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#7 Edited by Hit_Monkey (1402 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: I have! And I do see where you're coming from but even in that series. He's not this cheery. This is the most 'normal' (I think?) we've seen him. I like the new series. It's good. I'm just used to a grimer Castle is all.

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#8 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: I have! And I do see where you're coming from but even in that series. He's not this cheery. This is the most 'normal' (I think?) we've seen him. I like the new series. It's good. I'm just used to a grimer Castle is all.

I still think it's good and in character. He's still in a grimey world doing bad things and it's not like he's Daredevil spouting one liners now.

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#9 Posted by Hit_Monkey (1402 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: It's not the end of the world that Frank has lightened up a bit about his 'predicament' I suppose. I'm all for a change of pace and he's still out gunning down gangsters wholesale at the end of the day. He is acting a bit differently now though? It might just be that he's moved to LA. I'd be the same in his situation. What with the nice weather and what not. I would certainly have more of a spring in my step?

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#10 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@hit_monkey: I like to think it's got more to do with what happened between him and Rachel in his last series and how he sees other people now.

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#11 Posted by Hit_Monkey (1402 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by Tensta (473 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Ennis, I think he perfected the character.

That being said, this "new" Punisher reminds me of the "old" Punisher by Baron and Potts and that's the Frank I grew up with. I dont't find him too cheery but myself a bit nostalgic

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#13 Edited by LSROTJ (126 posts) - - Show Bio

The character is too cheery, he looks like a slob who mops that has to drink... what's next, he's going to be seen smoking to ease the pain??? And the thing is, the Punisher shouldn't be acting more human, not after 37 or 38 years of his war on crime from killing and torturing. This type of behavior (small talk and making jokes) just comes out of nowhere and there's no explanation for it. Ennis made a very good argument about character development with Frank, it doesn't work with him, he's reach a point in his life (early 2000s) as the Punisher where he's not going to change and become a better or a different person. His Platoon mini series can't come soon enough. Baron wrote some of the worst storylines and out-of-character moments in Frank's life.

And what is a spandex super villain (that he may not be allow to kill) doing in a Punisher story???? That pretty much kills whatever dark, gritty serious tone they were going for.

Yeah... the events with Rachel really changed him... that's piss poor excuse to come up with...

"I also think it's only a matter of time until Frank makes that girl cop at the diner his new girlfriend or something"

Half the time when a young female character is after someone like Frank, they turn out to be pretty incompetent, unable to do there job, they switch sides because murdering psychopaths are so damn cute, sympathetic and fall head over heels in love in a matter of a few weeks, days or hours. But then she's killed and Frank learns what he should already know by now... don't let anyone get close to you and he can't change who he is... meh... I hope it doesn't happen but it won't surprise me if it does.

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#14 Posted by bionder (330 posts) - - Show Bio

It's normal that people find this "Frank" awkward when they only know him when Garth Ennis takeover the character...

This take as some user said it's similar to the Punisher from the 90's (Mike Baron, Carl Potts, etc...) This is a very good change that will give more "depth" to the character instead of an "empty shell" like he is used to be in the past decade.

@lsrotj said:

The character is too cheery, he looks like a slob who mops that has to drink... what's next, he's going to be seen smoking to ease the pain??? And the thing is, the Punisher shouldn't be acting more human, not after 37 or 38 years of his war on crime from killing and torturing. This type of behavior (small talk and making jokes) just comes out of nowhere and there's no explanation for it. Ennis made a very good argument about character development with Frank, it doesn't work with him, he's reach a point in his life (early 2000s) as the Punisher where he's not going to change and become a better or a different person. His Platoon mini series can't come soon enough. Baron wrote some of the worst storylines and out-of-character moments in Frank's life.

And what is a spandex super villain (that he may not be allow to kill) doing in a Punisher story???? That pretty much kills whatever dark, gritty serious tone they were going for.

Yeah... the events with Rachel really changed him... that's piss poor excuse to come up with...

"I also think it's only a matter of time until Frank makes that girl cop at the diner his new girlfriend or something"

Half the time when a young female character is after someone like Frank, they turn out to be pretty incompetent, unable to do there job, they switch sides because murdering psychopaths are so damn cute, sympathetic and fall head over heels in love in a matter of a few weeks, days or hours. But then she's killed and Frank learns what he should already know by now... don't let anyone get close to you and he can't change who he is... meh... I hope it doesn't happen but it won't surprise me if it does.

Do you actually have read any issue of this or you only have read "previews"? Because it's seems that it's the case here.

This isn't PunisherMAX... This Punisher was rebooted in Rucka's run, it's not the same Frank with almost 40 years of war experience, get over it. This is a Punisher 616 ongoing, if you like the "real" thing buy MAX and stick with it.

It's normal to have 616 super villains in a Punisher comic, like it happen in Rucka's when Frank killed the "new" Vulture.

This is a good change, imo, instead of giving us crap like Angelic stuff or Franken-Castle they change Frank's mood. The results are out there Punisher #1 and #2 will get a 2nd print.

I wouldn't be surprise that this isn't the "real" Electro and Frank actually kills him... Since when Electro is some sort of merchandise from AIM?

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#15 Edited by Tensta (473 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher been around for 40 years and according to the character wiki appears in 1875 issues.

I´m guessing here but Ennis probably wrote about 100 of those issues (60 MAX, couple of extras and some 30 issues of Marvel Knights The Punisher) for about 8 (?) years. I love Ennis, he writes Frank the way I want my fictional characters - hardboiled, silent, gritty, Clint Eastwood etc but I have to agree with Bionder here, it´s nice to see a 616 Punisher with a bit more depth again.

What I like with Edmondson/Gerads Frank is that he´s more human - on the surface. You know the examples - he´s interacting normally with people, joking around with the cafe owner and a cop, is a lot more relatable overall and you kind of like the guy -then suddenly in the next page he´s interrogating someone with his fists or frying and feeding humans to alligators and you´re reminded exactly what he´s actually capable of. Works for me.

Ennis Frank is, as I said, my favorite take on the character but I like the Punisher too much to miss out 32 years and some 1775 issues (minus Angel/Franken Castle and some really bad appearances) because Ennis didn´t write it. But that´s just me and so far I´m loving the new series.

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#16 Edited by DaveThePunisher (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@tensta: you make a lot of great points. This new Frank is starting to grow on me. Ennis' Punisher will always be my favorite, but I think this new version has to be made. It's the times we live in. The direction that Marvel is going in is the Disney direction. That could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending how it's handled. Like you said, I think it is being handled well because he will be more human on one page, and then feeding people to crocs on the next. I think this could work with a friendlier Punisher, as long as they keep him a marine and a killing machine.

I look at the recent Daredevil volume that just finished and ran for 36 issues. Prior to that series, Daredevil was in Shadowland and was a dark and demonic killer. They almost went TOO far with making Daredevil evil. They had to bring him back to "reality" and down to earth so, with this past volume, they lightened him up and had him take on a more "cheery" personality, while still keeping his kick-ass attitude.... and it worked wonderfully!

If they can keep Frank balanced between a cold blooded killer and this new "cheery" self, I think it could work.

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#17 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@tensta: you make a lot of great points. This new Frank is starting to grow on me. Ennis' Punisher will always be my favorite, but I think this new version has to be made. It's the times we live in. The direction that Marvel is going in is the Disney direction. That could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending how it's handled. Like you said, I think it is being handled well because he will be more human on one page, and then feeding people to crocs on the next. I think this could work with a friendlier Punisher, as long as they keep him a marine and a killing machine.

I look at the recent Daredevil volume that just finished and ran for 36 issues. Prior to that series, Daredevil was in Shadowland and was a dark and demonic killer. They almost went TOO far with making Daredevil evil. They had to bring him back to "reality" and down to earth so, with this past volume, they lightened him up and had him take on a more "cheery" personality, while still keeping his kick-ass attitude.... and it worked wonderfully!

If they can keep Frank balanced between a cold blooded killer and this new "cheery" self, I think it could work.

I don't think the Punisher/DD connection is right at all. Yes Frank is being a bit more human towards other pepole but he's still blowing out people's kneecaps and killing pepole left and right, he's still a badass wetworks operator killing his way through crime but DD is no longer a grimey street level pulp noir vigilante. Now DD is just "blind spider-man"

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#18 Posted by daredevil21134 (15939 posts) - - Show Bio

@hit_monkey: I thought it was to cheery for my taste so I dropped it.The violence was good but I like my Punisher a little less talkative.It's still nowhere as bad as Daredevil though.But i'm used to the Ennis Castle and Miller Daredevil

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#19 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@hit_monkey: I thought it was to cheery for my taste so I dropped it.The violence was good but I like my Punisher a little less talkative.It's still nowhere as bad as Daredevil though.But i'm used to the Ennis Castle and Miller Daredevil

But don't you think it's a bit closer to Ennis's Welcome Back Frank? I think him being a bit more human to other people now makes sense after what happened in his last ongoing.

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#20 Posted by daredevil21134 (15939 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134 said:

@hit_monkey: I thought it was to cheery for my taste so I dropped it.The violence was good but I like my Punisher a little less talkative.It's still nowhere as bad as Daredevil though.But i'm used to the Ennis Castle and Miller Daredevil

But don't you think it's a bit closer to Ennis's Welcome Back Frank? I think him being a bit more human to other people now makes sense after what happened in his last ongoing.

I totally agree with you. I just prefer him to be a little less talkative

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