zgtfreak

@lmaolmaolmao: Again, the WTC layer transcender not reaching ghe Witches' Domain has nothing to do with thaat person's creator. So it's not like saying WTC transcender couldn't transcend its creator while 3812 could transcend his, meaning 3812's transcendence is better. No, because theWTC transcender failing to transcend has nothing to do with his creator. The fact is a layer transcender similar to 3812 failed to trandscend to the Witches' Domain, meaning 3812 likely cannot either.

By this logic other people like ushiromiya family and Battler ascended to the higher layers anyway.

Actually, the entire Ushiromiya family was summoned there from entities already in that domain. They never reached it themselves.

@lmaolmaolmao: If you realise I haven't even brought up cosmology on the Yog vs Battler thread,in which case the latter would likely blinkstomp

You've brought it up in other threads though, leading me to believe you're not bringing it up just for my sake.

Irrelevant.Space exists and these beings get awed by sizes.Featherine's library is considered impressive for a reason:Size.

CoB is considered impressive because it contains every story in the verse, not simply due to size alone.

"Complete control" doesn't mean anything.

Uh, yes it does. I'm speaking in the most literal sense.

And complete control over size means the beings supercede mathematics in all abstract forms,which the only ones in fiction I know are beings like the mathiverse and the white light,the latter scales to absolute infinity.

So you agree such a thing exist.

again,going upto omnipotence is meaningless.You either are or you aren't.

You're not providing a counterargument. Having almost zero restrictions = close to omnipotence.

Saying it is superior to other cosmologies regardless of size is pure NLF

Saying cosmology size is superior to anything is pure NLF.

considering size is very much relevant in Umineko too.

Not really. Witches' Domain layers have R>F, which isn't merely a higher infinite space and is superior. But its most talked about trait is getting close to omnipotence via losing restrictions with each step.

If I supercede the entire ladder I can very much govern all the laws and workings of the lower cosmology as long as I don't reach omnipotence.

You must reach omnipotence even without the Creator to govern the entire cosmology because the last steps are omnipotence but with a few restrictions, hence TRULY fitting the definition of nigh-omnipotence.

So by your logic verses that have heirarchies of concepts(meaning higher layers having their own set of concepts) are automatically better than Umineko,since someone who loses all their restrictions from concepts in lower layers will fall under higher meta variations of the same concepts in higher layers

That would mean they're inferior actually. Again, you never debunked WTC's absolute concepts (aka a concept with no higher variation). Never have we seen superior versions of the same concept in higher layers. Hell, higher layer entities must abide by game rules from lower layers or get ejected. An example of this is EP6 Battler threatening Bern with this and her acknowledging it.

@lmaolmaolmao: I mean that layer transcendor was bound below his own creators,3812 already transcended his own creator

That's too vague. Their creators could differ from each other massively. It's like saying SCP creator = the Creator. And we don't know if the layer that he was going to reach was exactly where his creator was. He just failed at entering the Witches' Domain entirely.

Regardless he would directly merge with the creator and die in both rounds,but if you put them all in a neutral cosmology without the creator,then 3812 stomps each time

I disagree. But our views have turned against each other and differ so much now that we might as well not debate anymore, considering we rate things differently. Regardless, OP says it takes place in WTC.

@lmaolmaolmao: So you've regressed to cosmology tiering? Ngl, I'm disappointed...

As long as something exists then gets superceded by some form of "space"

These are entities with literally almost 0 restrictions and are the legitimate definition of nigh-omnipotence. Space is clearly meaningless here. Hell, what if someone has complete control of the concept of size and space? What then? And hell, bigger infinity>all hax is the equivalent of raw power>>>>>>>>all. It's quite frankly childish. WTC's ladder is qualitatively superior to any basic cosmology regardless of size due to the nature of how it works. Likewise, Michael and Spectre are in the same position.

Are you telling me these guys are gonna survive if I poof the entire witch domain?

I doubt the ladder is even destroyable because it's governed by the Creator too much. It's permanent I believe. And TP Beatrice's existence goes beyond the Witches' Domain anyways.

You can also have non physical abstract cosmologies.The fact is,as long as you are not omnipotent something bigger can exist

Again, what if someone has complete control of the concept of size and space?

And no. You can get extremely close to omnipotence due to losing almost all restrictions and thus reap almost all the same benefits, like cosmology size being irrelevant. So your argument doesn't hold up even a tiny bit.

Layer transcendors in the Human Domain cannot access the Witches' Domain, meaning I doubt 3812 can either, so he stops at R1. If he can somehow transcend it or we consider round 2, he gets erased instantly due to transcending the last step of the cosmology. which ends at reaching the Creator and getting absorbed by him. So round 1 he stops at R1 due to the Witches' Domain being inaccessible to him; and round 2 he dies to no one on the gauntlet because he already reached the omnipotent Creator and got erased. WTC's cosmology hard-counters 3812.

Don't know enough about the other SCP to comment.

@kilgpmktra: True, but those are a small minority. Meanwhile 99.9999999999999% of Shinzaverse fans that I see read it only for how powerful they are and overhype it to hell and back. You have no idea how many ultipotence Hajun, beyond all dualities, beyond all concepts, Tier 0 GG, ect that I have seen people argue. They purposely lie, leave out context, twist the in-verse mechanics, lie about and downplay enemy verses, ect. It's the most toxic fanbase I've ever seen. I've only met a handful of cool Shinzaverse fans.

OT: Yog unmakes Hajun, and then Aurora drops Yog with Truths.

Oh yeah... Aurora rectons the verse to where it actually make sense.

@kilgpmktra: They aren't even close in my eyes.

Lucifer wills this fodder verse out of existence.