Zetsu-San

@wastelandman:

I mean, he rekt that trio that would have died if they didn't BFR (which didn't even kill him), and I showed off their own skill in my earlier post. They did way more than anything the Marauder has shown that's tangible, which his nothing.

He didn't beat them with skill though, he took them down with an energy blast that didn't actually kill any of them.

The clip you posted for the hero party really didn't show anything special either though, you haven't actually posted them doing anything above peak human. I mean hell, they literally ran from a group of monsters that look like the types Doomslayer casually rips apart with his bare hands.

Forgive me for thinking that a boss level threat from a game that consists of mowing down SWARMS of enemies equipped with both magic and high tech weaponry, splattering monsters like they are made of paint balloons, getting blasted into a futuristic bunker, and bringing down building sized monsters solo; is enough to assume a degree of skill/stat parity with an enemy whose primary cutscene consisted of barely winning the most generic fantasy fight scene ever.

As far as rank, I don't think Marauder's are comparable. Dremora Lords at the highest level possess absurd power, even sometimes embodying their own sphere's and second in power only to a Daedric Prince. There's no way a Marauder is at that level, which is why I'm assuming an average or at least lesser Dremora Lord for the sake of argument. Daedra with the ranks of Valkynaz, like we see in the vid, alone is someone with enough power to win explicit favor of their Daerdric Prince and works directly under them (which we also see in the video).

What does any of that have to do with melee combat skill though?

I'm pretty sure there are ways to hype Doom's cosmology to ridiculous extremes like universal and multiversal as well. I don't think any of that really matches the way we actually see combat happen in these games though.

I mean it was one arm vs getting bombarded by arrows and mace hits by super humans, idk what to tell you. How many times the Marauder can block someone of comparable stats is entirely speculation.

One arm... with a shield... It's a shield... They block things. If you have a solid metal shield, a few hits from a single handed mace, isn't going to send it flying out of your hands like that... At least not, unless the person you are fighting is significantly stronger than you... Except there are other parts of the same scene, where he showed he was stronger than her.

He literally has moments that only make sense if he's stronger than her, and moments that only make sense if he's weaker than her, in the exact same fight. Hence why I said it's inconsistent.

I don't think it needs to be if it can cut each other equally well, unless you have evidence the Marauder can even survive a single cut from a Daedric sword outside of gameplay.

I mean, if you feel that way that's fine. Again, there's no proof the Daedric sword wouldn't pierce the Marauder's armor just as easily as I stated.

The Marauder has the same type of armor that Doomslayer uses. The same Doomslayer who tanked getting blasted into a bunker, via a rail canon...

@wastelandman:

You can have all those advantages but it can mean nothing if there's a large enough skill gap.

But what basis would you have for there being a large enough skill gap? He didn't really show anything special in those clips. The kind of skill gap necessary to overcome ALL of those advantages, are the kinds that pretty much defy logic itself to the point of essentially being a form of plot armor. I didn't see anything in that video that suggests his skill reaches such a level.

What are you basing the Marauder's skill on precisely? As far as I know, there's literally nothing solid to go off, it's all vague/speculation hence why I think it's kind of up in the air.

Marauders are former Night Sentinels. They are an order of elite knights, who fought against hell. The ones who fell and became Marauders were given high positions within hell's army.

Given the Marauders and Dremora Lords seem to hold very similar positions, I don't find it unreasonable to assume they are of a similar skill level, given both are lacking in skill showings beyond their status, and skill as a concept is largely unquantifiable, beyond status, in fiction to begin with.

Idk why getting the shield knocked out of his hand is "inconsistent" when he took multiple strikes to that arm already and it's not like high tier Redguard warriors in the ES are even limited to peak human

He took a few strikes... to the shield... with the (large metal) shield getting knocked out of his hand and sent flying by the (single handed) mace... That's not really something that happens when two people are of similar stats.

As far as the armor, you also got to remember that a lot of the notable warriors aren't using normal weaponry themselves, many of which are enchanted or made with fictional material.

Okay, but is there any reason to believe their weapons are actually above the Marauder's axe?

It'd be pretty silly for seasoned warriors to confront Daedra with weapons they know wouldn't work on them.

Not having a weapon that can pierce someone's armor, is not the same as having a weapon that "doesn't work". If it were "silly" to fight someone with a weapon that can't pierce their armor, then all warriors throughout history would be "silly", since armor in real life generally does its job.

Even a high quality steel sword is not going to pierce iron armor, and given that Daedric materials are "supposed" to be special, I'd expect something that manages to pierce one to be a genuinely plot macguffin. Otherwise I'm gonna have to just assume this is another case of writers treating armor as this nebulous and unreliable concept, that they can ignore whenever convenient.

@wastelandman: Thing is, even if we assume the Dremora's h2h speeds are comparable or better, having a ranged advantage on top of an overall movement speed advantage, is a pretty big game changer.

It means he can soften up the target from range, and perform hit and run attacks whenever there's an opening. The Dramora's shield is smaller and persistent (and also got knocked out of his hands by a strike from the exact same girl he ragdolled a moment prior), whereas the Marauder's covers his full body and can easily be turned on and off, AND he can make some sort of animal energy construct on top of that.

If we assume the Marauder's attacks are capable of harming the Doomslayer (who can tank being shot into a bunker, via rail canon), then I imagine he'd be able to harm the Dramora through the Daedra armor as well (I mean his armor even got stabbed through in the clip you showed).

All in all, it just seems like we're looking at two very similar enemy types, with one just having a lot more options overall. In the absence of any major skill or stat gap, which I don't think those two clips are enough to prove, I feel like the one who has a bunch of tactical options at his disposal should kind of win by default.

And honestly, that cutscene makes him look HELLA inconsistent. It's like the established a stat advantage to hype him up, then immediately abandoned it so that the heroes can win. And I understand that the Daedric armor is "supposed" to be durable from a lore standpoint, it seems like it fell victim to the "armor is useless" trope, that crops up whenever writers don't know how to make a fight go the direction they need it to while making armor actually work.

@wastelandman: Marauder seems to have better burst speed showings and more reliable energy projections, while still being comparable in strength. Not to mention he has a gun and an energy shield, as well as Sentinel Armor (which is tanky as hell, and IIRC has demonic energy absorbing properties).

@andromeda1001: The general purpose and level of complexity is wildly different.

I wasn’t trying to calc the amount of energy of an attack, like that’s something taken into consideration. I simply asserted that most of the matter in the known universe could fit within the size of the explosion we were shown, and did a quick calc to show that I wasn’t off the mark in stating that.

@andromeda1001: Calcs… cringe

@andromeda1001: Wouldn’t a Dramora of some sort, have made more sense?

@andromeda1001: Don’t you know, anything in skyrim is infinite multiversal and stomps all other settings?

I think it just looks that way because of the main character plot armor. lol

The second apprentice guy knew more about operating the power armor than he did, and while Titus was a little bitch, he didn’t seem nearly as clumsy as Max was.