By xolthol 12 Comments
TWILIGHT OF A GOD
I know that lot of you will cry when seeing this. But I need to do this.
Since the 3 or 4 years, Darth Sidious have been raised from a powerful sith to litteraly god. Even though,I agree on the fact that Sidious is the most powerful classic darksider that ever exist (which put him above the likes of Valkorion and Nihilius), I think that his power have been overated. Take not this as a proof of hatred against Sidious but rather as a rational need to put him as his exact power.
With all of this said, lets jump into God-Emperor Sheev Wankatine mythos.
I-GROWTH & EVOLUTION
A-FROM BANE TO SIDIOUS
-a relative success of the Rule of Two-
Sidious is the pinnacle of the banite rule of two. By this logic he is its most powerful member. Nonetheless, if the increase of power throughout generation is a fact, we have absolutely no idea of this growth.
We know that we have around 30 Sith lords in the whole banite lineage but know nothing about most of them. I will here explain the error that have been made on the quantification of growth during the millenium of the Rule of Two.
MISSCONCEPTION N°1: the apprentice already equals their master during their fateful confrontation, and after the deed is done they gain a Bane of power on top of their current level
This first error is based on a torturous interpretation of a Sidious's quote and some material which didn't proove anything. Here they are:
"Bane's power has been passed down for a thousand years. I vow to be its last recipient." - Darth Sidious, Book of the Sith
The differents quotes used to prove this theory:
- Even from a distance, she had sensed an incredible burst of power - the same power she had sensed in Bane himself. She didn’t know how it was possible, but it almost seemed as if the Dark Lord’s life energy had burst free of his physical form in one glorious instant, releasing itself upon the material world. Then, as suddenly as she had sensed the presence, it was gone, vanishing like an animal gone to ground.
- Awake in the oppressive heat, he replayed the events of the previous day, still somewhat astounded by what he had done. The Force had whispered to him: Your moment has come. Claim your stake to the dark side. Act now and be done with this. But the Force had only advised; it had neither dictated his actions nor guided his hands. That had been his doing alone. He knew from his travels with and without Tenebrous that he wasn't the galaxy's sole practitioner of the dark side - nor Sith for that matter, since the galaxy was rife with pretenders - but he was now the only Sith Lord descended from the Bane line. A true Sith, and that realization roused the raw power coiled inside him. [...] With 11-4D deep in processing mode, Plagueis withdrew a vial of his own blood and subjected it to analysis. Despite the recent amplification of his powers he sensed that his midi-chlorian count had not increased since the events on Bal'demnic, and the analysis of the blood sample confirmed his suspicions.
- A tremor took hold of the planet. Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world's core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake's epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn't constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification - a gravitic shift. A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him. […] The dark side had made him its property, and now he made the dark side his. Breathless, not from exertion but from the sudden inspiration of power, he let go of the sill and allowed the monster to writhe through his body like an unbroken beast of range or prairie. Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone? Sidious had never learned how Plagueis's own Master had met his end. Had he died at Plagueis's hand? Had Plagueis, too, experienced a similar exultation on becoming a sole Sith Lord? Had the beast of the end time risen then to peek at the world it was to inhabit, knowing its release was imminent?
Well the simplest way to understand Sidious's quote is to understand that throughout the whole banite lineage the power of the darkside have been teach from a master to his apprentice. It is pretty obvious when you read the quote. Anyway this one could be wrong and the other theory can be true. What are its back up ?
A quote from Zannah point of view where she feel in the aire a burst of power similar to the one Bane hold. But the quote dooesn't mention the fact that Zannah take for her this energy. This is exactly the opposite: it release "itself upon the material world" (not in Zannah body) and then "it was gone, vanishing". Clearly this isn't a proof of that theory.
A quote from Plagueis who discover that his force power have augmented but not his midi-chlorian count after the death of his master.This could be take as a very weak argument of this, but we have no proof that the increase of power is equal to a Bane or anything else. An increase is something pretty vague. Going from 1 to 10 is an increase but going from 1 to 1,0001 is also one. We just know that this happend when Tenebrous was killed.
A quote from Sidious after he killed Plagueis and his power increase. Once again we can see that his power have increased and that he become more powerful. But we also have no idea of this augmentation. The really interresting part comes from the fact that this quote literraly destroy the whole theory of the increase of a Bane each generation. Indeed, by following the logic of this theory, Palpatine should have a power around 30 Banes. In the quote we can see that the burst of power that he feels is really insane: " so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return." if we follow the theory this would have been an increase of 1 Bane so 1/30 of his power. Nothing as impressive as a power that could loose Sheev into itself. Clearly this just proove the theory wrong.
As we can see the theory have no solid back up but have been prooven wrong by the last quote. The only thing that we have seen is that following the death of their master, the apprentice gain an unknown amount of power.
MISSCONCEPTION N°2: Darth Zannah beat Darth Bane because she was more powerful
I think this will shock most of people who will read this. But this is a fact. She didn't defeat Bane because she was more powerful but because she know more about some part of the darkside. Moreover her victory happend only because they were near a dark side nexus where she can summon her dark tendrils.
We have exactly two quotes from the Bane trilogy explaining that Zannah could be more powerful than Bane:
- "His power was undeniable, yet as she felt it building she was confident his abilities would be no match for hers."- ROT
- “Zannah was smart and cunning, and her powers in the dark side might be even greater than his own.”-DOE
This two quotes didn't prooved that she was more powerful but only that she could be. The first one is clearly prooved wrong by her defeat against Bane during ROT.
She fell into a defensive posture as she so often had during their training sessions. But this was no drill, and her Master came at her with a speed and ferocity she had never faced before. Giving in to his orbalisk-fueled bloodrage, he was like a wild animal, raining savage blows down on her from all angles, the strikes coming so fast it seemed as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time. Zannah fell into a full retreat, desperately giving ground beneath the overwhelming assault.[...]. She scrambled to her feet and twirled her lightsaber before her, creating what she hoped would be an impenetrable wall of defense. Instead of trying to pierce her guard, Bane leapt high in the air and came down almost right on top of her. She deftly parried his blade, redirecting it to the side as she spun away to keep his body from slamming into her. But Bane caught her on the chin with his elbow as she turned, the blow snapping her head back. Her body went limp, her weapon dropped from her nerveless fingers, and she crumpled to the ground.
The second one is also prooved wrong during DOE:
Zannah is unable to TK him while he wasn't focus on her and was weakened: He began to gather the dark side, the power slowly building. But before he could unleash it he was hit by a wall of thunderous force rolling out from a corridor to his left. Instinctively he threw up a defensive shield, absorbing the blow. If she have been really above him, he shouldn't have the time and the power to whistand the blow.
And she should have been able to do the same while attacking Bane :
As her blade bit into the cocoon the energy was released in a sudden burst that sent both of them flying backward. Bane slammed hard into the wall against his back and crumpled to the ground. Zannah was tossed ten meters farther, landing hard on the stone floor. She isn't able to absorb his blast (neither was Bane).
While Bane was under her madness spell, she failled to kill him neither by using it nor by using other force power.
She only win after using her power to summon dark side tendrils, but we have zero proof that she can done this on a neutral ground: This time, however, she didn't attack Bane directly. Instead, she let it flow through her, drawing it from the soil and stone of Ambria itself. She called to power buried for centuries, summoning it up to the surface in wispy tendrils of dark smoke snaking up from the sand . And even with this she nearly loose: With his foe unarmed and helpless at his feet Bane brought his arm down for the coup de grace, only to have it intercepted mid-swing by one of the dark side tendrils
Clearly we have zero clue for thinking that Zannah is more powerful than Bane when she defeat him. She only win because she know a force attack that he failled to counter (not because of a lack of strenght in the force but because of a lack of knowledge): They were made of pure dark side energy, and there was no way he could harm them.
MISSCONCEPTION N°3: Darth Gravid wasn't a setback to the banite lineage.
This is one of the most controversed point each time someone disagree with the success of the Banite scaling. But factually Gravid was a setback:
"Their Order[the Jedi Order] might have already been decimated had it not been for the setback Darth Gravid dealt the Sith."
Now the real question is the following: have been Gravid only a setback because he destroyed lots of sith knowledge ? or this setback is also in the power in the force level ? Obviously in term of sith knowledge Gravid have been a huge setback because he: was thought to have destroyed more than half the repository of artifacts.
One theory is that even though there was a lost of knowledge there wasn't any loose of power based on the fact that Gravid was killed by his unarmed apprentice:
Gean, demonstrating consummate will and courage, had managed to penetrate the Force fields Gravid had raised around their stronghold and intercede, killing her Master with her bare hands, though at the cost of her arm, shoulder, and the entire left side of her face and chest.
But this theory is wrong for two reasons:
Gean kill him with her bare hand, not with some force power. If she have been more powerful than Gravid she should have killed him with some force attack such as TK or something else. Here she just use her bare hands... clearly not a proof of her force superiority, but rather the fact that she is a better fighter than a mad man.
Gravid was a sith who betrayed the sith conception of the force and want to use both side of the force. Because of this he become mad: Driven increasingly mad by his attempts to straddle the two realms. Clearly because he become mad he cannot be in his prime during the fight against Gean. In addition we have also this about Gravid: forgetting that there can be no return to the light for an adept who has entered the dark wood; that the dark side will not surrender one to whom, by mutual agreement, it has staked a claim. Some people will claim this is a proof of Gravid being not affect by his conception but this is clearly a the opposite, we have the proove that Gravid was trying not to use the dark side of the force and even though he failled this is the proof that he wasn't able to use fully his potential (because he didn't embrace the Darkside).
So clearly we have no reasons for thinking that the victory of Gean over Gravid is the proof of the the rule of two always succeed.
MISSCONCEPTION N°4: The rule have been fully follow by nearly all of its members
This is clearly one of the most forgotten part of the Rule of Two. Even though . This is clearly shown here:
"Like Plagueis, Tenebrous had obviously embraced the fact that Darth Bane's Rule of Two had expired. Precious few Sith Lords had honored it,in any case, and with good reason, as Plagueis saw it. The goals of the Grand Plan were revenge and the reacquisition of galactic power. But while most Sith Lords since Bane had in their own fashion helped to weaken the Republic, their efforts had owed less to selflessness and allegiance to the Rule than to weakness and incompetence. Driven to discharge Bane's imperative they might have been, and yet each had fallen prey to individual foibles and eccentricities, and so had failed to exact revenge on the the Jedi Order."
"And yet, while all Sith Lords were powerful, not all were brilliant or in complete possession of the powers the dark side granted them."
(Thanks to Redheaten for this quotes)
I think that I didn't need to add way more things here.
MISSCONCEPTION N°5: Tenebrous success are the proof of his power in the force
Darth Tenebrous is view as a really impressive powerhouse for some reasons:
He seems far above his own master: far beyond the simplistic Force studies imposed on him by his Master.
He succeed alone to create a foce virus where his former self and his master failled: Tenebrous and his Master most of all, though they wasted years attempting to create a targeted virus that could be deployed against the Jedi. VS Tenebrous created a retrovirus that could infect midi-chlorians.
Sidious and Plagueis only succeed to do the same after unbalancing the Force: But I failed to exercise due caution. As we attempt to wrest the powers of life and death from the Force, as we seek to tip the balance, the Force resists our efforts. Action and reaction, Sidious. Something akin to the laws of thermodynamics. I have been audacious, and the Force has tested me the way Tenebrous sought to. Midi-chlorians are not easily persuaded to execute the dictates of one newly initiated in the mysteries. VS And so after Sidious had returned to Coruscant, he had devoted himself to internalizing that ability, by manipulating the midi-chlorians that animated him.
But there is a huge mistake here based on the fact that some people only link success to strenght in the force. But here what is the most important with Tenebrous is his brain:
this is because of his brain that he called "simplistic" the studies of his master, not because he is way more powerful: the magnificent computational power of his Bith brain had led him far beyond the simplistic Force studies imposed on him by his Master.
He succeed in manipulating the midi-chlorian thanks to his intellectual capacity: by applying the full analytic prowess of his vast Bith brain and the preternatural power of his Bith senses to detect and resolve sub-microscopic structure, he eventually succeeded in creating a retrovirus that would transform normal midi-chlorians into long-lived maxi-chlorians.
Add to this that Midi-chlorians were, after all, merely symbiotic organelles that contribute to the organic processes of the living cells they inhabit. Due to their role in Force interactions, altering them was singularly challenging
As you can see what allow Tenebrous to be way better than his master is the fact that he is way more intelligent. This is also the reason why he succeed in manipulating midi-chlorian and Plagueis failled. Indeed, he didn't train Plagueis in this way:
- Instead of actually training his doltish apprentice, Tenebrous had flattered Plagueis' mysticism while pricking his insecurities, sending him off on one useless, doomed-to-fail mission after another. In turn, Tenebrous had invested every available second of the freedom this afforded into designing, creating, and deploying the one weapon that Plagueis would never suspect. Could never suspect. His own prejudices about the Force ensured Plagueis wouldn't believe such a thing was possible. [...] Hmm - perhaps he should have invested some time in actually training the foolish Muun.
- And now his impossibly refined perceptions detected the brush of Plagueis' mind, as the apprentice probed the vanishing midi-chlorians of his dying master with his own use of the Force, as Tenebrous had known he would. Tenebrous had spent decades making sure that Plagueis would be unable to resist doing exactly that.
This is the very reason that explain why Plagueis wasn't able even with the help of Sidious to reproduce what Tenebrous have done. A good comparison will be opening a door. You can crack the locker (what tenebrous done) or you can break the whole door (what Plagueis have done). In the two cases you succeed going on the other side but in the second one you will need way more strenght. So clearly no: Tenebrous success aren't a proof of his strenght in the force but way more of his genial scientific intellect.
MISSCONCEPTION N°6: Way before his prime, Plagueis could affect the whole climate of a planet
Just see what happened when Plagueis go on Naboo:
Later it would be said by Naboo and Gungan alike that they couldn’t recall a colder winter than the one that followed Hego Damask’s autumnal visit to their world. The rivers and even the falls below Theed froze; the rolling plains and tall forests were blanketed three meters deep with snow; plasmic quakes rocked the Gallo Mountains and the Lake Country, the Holy Places and the undersea city of Otoh Gunga; and many of the egresses of the underwaterways that hollowed the planet were blocked by ice floes.
Clearly this seems to be a huge proof of his power, being able to affect this whole planet whitout any difficulty. But there is a problem here: Naboo was a dark side nexus by the words of Plagueis himself :
“On my first visit to your homeworld I recognized it as a nexus in the Force. And I remember thinking how appropriate it was that the dark side should be hiding on such a beautiful planet.”
So yes the feat himself is impressive but the fact that Naboo was a darkside nexus made this feat unquantifyable as a Plagueis one.
Even though the banite rule of two was a success in his globality, we have countless proof that it wasn't a full success at each steps and may have suffer even some setbacks. To briefly precise what happend just see the two graph:
In both case we can see that the rule was globally a success but in the second one we have made it way more realistic based on what we have seen previously. (NB: this two graphs are just here to give you an idea not the result of an accurate reflexion for each movement).
MISSCONCEPTION N°7: The boost that Sidious receive after Plagueis death is bigger than the whole power of Plagueis
After Sidious killed his master, he earned a huge boost of power.
Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.
However, a common mistake is that post-Plagueis Sheev is more powerful than Plagueis + Sheev. This is only based on the fact that Sidious seems to be able to unbalanced the Force pretty easily where the combine might of the two were forced to fight for months in order to subdue the Force. But this theory is nearly baseless:
There is no clear proof that Sheev can casualy unbalanced the force just after Plagueis death.
Even if he done this a better explanation is that Plagueis and sdious have done most of the work and that Sidious alone just need to continue what happend.
1. Lets read what is used as an argument of Sheev unbalancing the force just after Plagueis death:
Confident that the will of the dark side had been done, he returned to the suite’s window wall. Two beings in a galaxy of countless trillions, but what had transpired in the suite would affect the lives of all of them. Already the galaxy had been shaped by the birth of one, and henceforth would be reshaped by the death of the other. But had the change been felt and recognized elsewhere? Were his sworn enemies aware that the Force had shifted irrevocably?
Clearly there is zero proof of an Sidious unbalancing the Force again. We have just Sidious thinking about what have happened and asking himself if the jedi feel it. Clearly we are far from a new unbalancement of the Force.
2. When you read cautionly the extract where it is explained that the Force have been shift to the Darkside you have a really important word:
All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side.
Clearly the word "irrevocably" explain the fact that what they have done doesn't need to be done again. So clearly there is no reason to think that Sheev have done the same of what they did before. At most we can say that he just increase something that have already happened. A good comparison will be this one:
MISSCONCEPTION N°8: The increase of power of Sidious during his reign (from the death of Plagueis to RotJ) was really huge.
We know that Sidious power increased every single day but we have no idea of how huge was this increase. The only quote which made this quantifiable by any means is this one:
the darkening cloud upon the Force that had risen with the rebirth of the Sith made that harder and harder with each passing day
So this seems a relatively good increase because this is noticeable by Mace Windu. If this have happened for years, clearly the increased must be insane. But here a mistake is done. Mace isn't some random Jedi, he is the second most powerful member of every time and he is a specialist of shatterpoint.
- Alongside Mace Windu, with whom he served on the Jedi Council, Yoda was the most respected and most powerful Master ever to have walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple.
- That is my gift. [...] I can see shatterpoints. The sense is not sight, but see is the closest word Basic has for it: it is a perception, a feel of how what Iook upon fits into the Force, and how the Force binds it to itself and to everything else. I was six or seven standard years old-well into my training in the Jedi Temple-before I realized that other students,full-grown Jedi Knights, even wise Masters, could sense such connections only with difficulty, and only with concentration and practice. The Force shows me strengths and weaknesses, hidden flaws and unexpected uses. It shows me vectors of stress that squeeze or stretch, torque or shear; it shows me how patterns of these vectors intersect to form the matrix of reality.
This power was so impressive in Windu that he can see that Sidious was a shatterpoint of the whole conflict (even he didn't understand that Sidious was the dark lord he as looking for).
Palpatine was himself a shatterpoint on which the future of the Republic-perhaps even the whole galaxy-depended.
Add to this that the balance of force was so unstable at this moment :
The balance was already so delicate that he could not guess the outcome of any given shift: the slightest tip in any direction would generate chaotic oscillation
As you can see the slightest tip will have a huge impact on the force so obviously, someone as good at perceiving the Force as Mace will easily see the increase of the Darkside every days. To end this point: there is no proof that the increase of power of Sidious was really sigificant, we only know that he grows in power.
It is pretty obvious that Palpatine have naturaly power have increase since the death of Plagueis and throughout his whole life. Nonetheless we have no proof that his growth was tremendous.
II-Hyperbolic Sith Lord
Here, we will work on all the myth that have been made around Sidious making him a god.
MISSCONCEPTION N°9: Quotes saying that "Sidious was the most powerful darkside user of all time" are LOGICALLY true.
We have countless quote which englobe the whole galaxy and the whole history telling us that Palpatine was the most powerful darsider of every time. Obviously this quotes aren't perfectly true, they are forgetting the force entities such as: The Son, Abeloth, the Bedlams spirits,... This being are far beyond Sidious and aren't take into account by this quotes. Obviously, one may said that "this is only because they appear really few times". Indeed but this is the proof that this quotes who are hyperlatives aren't the perfect picture of the reality but only a part of the reality. So in term of rational logic (the one that we are using every time) they are false. So they cannot be used as an argument in favor of Sheev (tbh, I didn't think he needs them to be the most powerful "classical" dark side practionner).
MISSCONCEPTION N°10: Palpatine didn't need a physical body.
This error is based on two quotes missinterpred (out of context). The 2 quotes:
- Skywalker was responsible for some of the greatest setbacks Emperor Palpatine ever suffered. But despite the young Jedi Knight’s best efforts, Palpatine's grasp on the dark side - and power over the galaxy - remained unshaken.
- With her presence, the two Skywalker twins were able to temporarily repulse Palpatine. Unabated, the emperor continued his scourge.
The common mistake here is to think that Palpatine wasn't affected at all by the destruction of his body. But clearly this is wrong. Indeed, this two quotes are global ones and because of it they didn't show what happened at each moments. This is further emphatize by the two following quotes:
- When he returned from the dead the first time, Palpatine needed years to regain his full powers. When he was killed and rose again a second time, however, his dark side powers returned much faster.
- He barely survived Darth Vader's treachery. Palpatine remained sequestered at Byss while he rebuilt his strenght and his Empire
As you can easily see palpatine powers have decrease following his death and his travel through the void. The first two quotes explaining that he wasn't weakened aren't totally wrong, after Sidious regain his power, he was as powerful (even more powerful) than before. The graph below show the two theories and as you can see only the second one can match all the quotes.
Now there are 3 possibilities for him loosing his powers:
He didn't loose any power because of his death but only during his travel through the void.
He loose power because of his death and during his travel through the void.
He only loose power during his death but none during his travel through the void.
Basically the first two possibilities made Palpatine unable to survive whitout any anchor so directly invalidate the possibility for him to live whithout an anchor.
Lets see more in details the last one (which is the only one which can made the theory of Sidious living whithout a body true). We have that Sidious loose a huge amount of power going from his physical state to his spiritual one but after he didn't loose any power. And here some annoying questions appears:
why did he take the control of one of his clone ? if he didn't need a new body he have zero reason to do this.
why after his first defeat in Dark Empire, Palpatine didn't stop his unloyals adept from destroying his clone's supplies ?
why when he didn't have any more clones body did he ask sith spirits to help him stopping the decay of his clone body ?
why the sith spirits show Sidious the futur Anakin solo ?
As you can see there is lots of questions that we cannot solve with the theory of Palpatine being able to survive only as a spirit. But there is more:
"Cut off from a host body, Palpatine's essence dissipated, to be consumed by the madness that was the dark side."
This quotes precisely show that without a body, Palpatine cannot resist the pull of the void for ever. This is a perfect proof that Sidious cannot leave forever only as a spirit whitout any anchor to the physical world.
MISSCONCEPTION N°11: Shifting the force is a relevant feat
As everyone know, Palpatine and Plagueis shift the balance of the Force to the dark side and suffuse the galaxy with the darkside. But in the quote that explained what happened, people seems to forget this part:
The shift had been the outcome of months of intense meditation, during which Plagueis and Sidious had sought to challenge the Force for sovereignty and suffuse the galaxy with the power of the dark side. Brazen and shameless, and at their own mortal peril, they had waged etheric war, anticipating that their own midi-chlorians, the Force’s proxy army, might marshal to boil their blood or stop the beating of their hearts. Risen out of themselves, discorporate and as a single entity, they had brought the power of their will to bear, asserting their sovereignty over the Force. No counterforce had risen against them. In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended.
As you can see, this seems to be a battle whithout an opponent. No one have rise to face them. Basically this is the proof that even this was an impressive feat of his own, this isn't something so impressive.
A simple comparison, just see what happened when Sarasu Taalon get out of the Pool of Knowledge:
Had they flickered or shifted as Taalon moved his head, they might have been no more than reflections of the Pydyrian sun. But they remained steady, shining out from the darkness of the High Lord’s soul, and Luke knew why the Force was so full of portent that morning, why he could feel the Balance shifting toward shadow.
Basicaly this guy was able to shift the force only by going into Pool of knowledge, he didn't even done this actively. And clearly by what he had done, we know that Sarasu isn't able to compete with Sidious. So clearly, yes, shifting the Force is impressive but absolutely not relevant as a feat to scale of.
Another interresting thing: RotS Sidious is above his counterpart that shift the force and Plagueis. But he wasn't able to easily dominate Yoda during their confrontation. If we agree that shifting the force is something god-tier level, we cannot explain why Yoda wasn't ragdoll by Sidious who have been able to shift the force (breaking the Light buble done by lots of master jedi) and who cloud the whole jedi council of seeing the future.
So this feat was impressive but need to be relativize and cannot be used a proof of Sidious being a god.
MISSCONCEPTION N°12: The birth of Anakin and Luke was the only time when the force directly act in the star wars history, showing that Sidious is so powerful that the Force itself need to stop him.
This is completely false, the force have already directly act in the star wars history during Arcann reign in order to prepare the Outlander to face Arcann, Vaylin and ultimately Valkorion. This is easy to see in KotFE chapter 12. Lets see what Master Satele and Darth Marr tell us:
- Satele Shan: When the Republic surrender to Arcann,I gave myself to the will of the Force. I left the Core Worlds and found this planet.
- Satele Shan: No one is more surprised than I am to be heree, in this moment. But I trust the will of the Force
- Darth Marr: There is no death, there is only the Force and it has a plan
- Satele Shan: Your way is clear, and so is ours. Do you feel it Marr ? The Force draws us ... elsewhere.
So as you can see the Force itself act here in order to help the Outlander and it have planned something for years. Clearly we have the proof that Sheev wasn't the only one who threat the force to the point that it decide to done something to counter what happened.
MISSCONCEPTION N°13: Sidious was defeat only because every jedi that have ever exist unit themself in order to stop him from coming back to the death.
As shown in MISSCONCEPTION N°10, Sidious desperately need a new body to survive the pull of the void. In addition to the quotes that we have seen, we have also this ones:
- Palpatine traveled to Korriban, the hidden world-crypt of the Sith Lords and Palpatine's private place of power. Here among the vaults containing the mortal remains of thousands of Sith lords,Palpatine would ask for the Sith spirit's help in halting the decay of his flesh. Instead the spirits fed him a vision of the infant Anakin Solo. Palpatine would have to transfer his spirit into the child.
- "NO! NOT THAT ... YOUR SPIRITS GUIDED ME BACK TO THIS LIFE WHEN I WAS DESTROYED BY VADER ... AND BY HIS CHILDREN ... MY AGING CLONE BODY WILL SOON DIE. I NEED HEALING ... NOW."- Palpatine to unidentified Sith Spirit on Korriban
- Palpatine could only rule the galaxy while he yet lived, and his current clone, so far from the original, was decaying at an advanced state. He needed fresh genetic stock, strong in the Force, with which he would create a new, endless sources of clones. Of course there was no better candidates than the children of Luke Skywalker's sister, Leia Organa Solo
The most interresting one is the second quotes that explain why Palpatine need to be stop by all of the jedi that ever exist. As you can see he was take back to life by the spirits of ancient sith "when I was destroyed by Vader... and by his son".
So clearly the only possible way to understand the claim of Empatojayos Brand is that all the jedi who have ever existed are stopping dark side spirits from making Palpatine back to life. So clearly no, Sidious wasn't so powerful than every jedi have been need to stop him.
NOT SIGNIFICATIF N°1: Sidious power was the reason of his body's decay.
This is basically one of the most ridiculous claim ever made by Palpatine fans, what happened to his body (a fast decay) is one of the most classic things happening to every darksider. This isn't link to Palpatine insane power.
Will I eventually be physically transformed?"
"Into some aged, pale-skinned, raspy-voiced, yellow-eyed monster, you mean. Such as the one you see before you
Sidious asking Plagueis
And we also have already seen faster decay of body from people less powerful than Sidious. The best example is Darth Nox who with her 5 ghosts dying because of the power her flesh needs to handle:
- It appears, however, that binding too many ghosts can quickly overwhelm the host, inflicting physical and spiritual sickness on the Force-walking Sith. CODEX : Force-walking sickness
- "The ghost's power was too much for your body to adapt so quickly." Zash
So clearly no, the decay of Palpatine body isn't a sign of his insane power or something else, just the fact that he is a powerful dark side user.
NOT SIGNIFICATIF N°2: Sidious is mainly define as dark side energy
After his death, Palpatine become a darkside spirit, able to take control of body. This is something pretty classic with powerful Sith Lord: this happened to Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun, Valkorion, .... but also countless little sith like Kallig, Ergast, darth Andru, Terrak Morhagge,... Because they exist as spirit they aren't define anymore by their physical state but by their "spiritual state". And basically what are sith spirit: they are force energy. So being define as dark side energy isn't something that show how powerful is Sidious, just that he had become another dark side spirit.
MISSCONCEPTION N°14: Sidious have telekinetically burried the Lusankya.
This one have been already debate countless time, but I think not necessarly in the good way. Classicaly, people only view the Lusankya feat either as a TK and TP showing or as a TP-only showing thing. But there is other possibility that haven't been mentionned here: Palpatine could have use Mechu-Deru in order to moove it. But before discussing about this lets see the differents quotes:
Years before, one of a number of Super Star Destroyers commissioned by the Emperor had disappeared. In fact, as a demonstration of Palpatine's dark side powers, he had buried the Lusankya at the edge of Imperial City.
Once completed, the Emperor himself used the dark side of the Force to hide the Lusankya beneath the surface of Coruscant's cityscape.
Q: In the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, under the Sith Battleship description it states that Exar Kun recovered his ship the ‘Corsair’ in the same way Darth Nihilus recovered the ‘Ravager’ on Malachor V. Does this mean that Exar Kun summoned the ship via the Force from the depths of the Massassi Temple of Sacrifice?
Peña: That said, looking over the text, it appears to me that a direct analogy with the Ravager and that your interpretation is essentially correct. (Another example, though in reverse, is Emperor Palpatine using the Force to bury the Lusankya, in plain sight, beneath the surface of the planet Coruscant.)
She rename the vessel the Lusankya, and, with help from the Emperor's mind fogging powers, Imperial engineers buried the tremendous battleship beneath the cityscape in Coruscant's Manarai Mountain district.
The Lusankya laid waste to the area beneath which it had lain buried for years. Green turbolaser bolts pounded the cityscape, freeing the ship from the ferrocrete and transparisteel prison in which it had laired. Wedge knew Super Star Destroyers had only come into service after the Battle of Yavin, which meant the Lusankya had to have been created and hidden on Coruscant before the battle of Endor. Unless the constructor droids just built it there, then built over it. The idea that a hundred-square-kilometer area of the planet could have been razed and rebuilt to hide a Super Star Destroyer seemed beyond belief, especially with no one noticing the ship's insertion into the hole. Could the Emperor's power through the dark side of the Force have been sufficient to compel thousands or millions of people to forget having seen theLusankya being buried? As hideous as that idea seemed, Wedge hoped it was the truth. The likely alternative—that the Emperor had ordered the deaths of all the witnesses—seemed that much more horrible.
As you can see we have six different quotes which differently empathize the feat. At least one thing is obviously true: Palpatine TP millions of people in order to force them forgetting what happened. Now the question is : have Palpatine directly buried the Lusankya ?
The first three quotes seems to agree with this theory, however the first two are also true when you only take the TP feat:
For the first one, the demonstration of the darkside power is the TP feat and when it is written "he had buried the Lusankya" it can seen as a figure of speech (a metonymy) to say that he ordered to bury it (a similar metonymy is when you said: President Bush attack the Iraq. Obviously, he didn't attack Iraq himself but command the US army to launch an attack). This seems even the most realistic possibility when you read in the fourth quote: "Imperial engineers, buried the tremendous Battleship". So this quote didn't proove that Sidious move the Lusankya.
The second one tells us that by using the darkside of the Force he " hide the Lusankya beneath the surface of Coruscant's cityscape." Once again here, the TP feat alone perfectly match with the concept of hiding (he TP countless people in order to hide the lusankya being burried). And once again the fourth quote provide a precious hint, by explaining who burried it. Like the previous quote, we cannot say that this one prove a major TK feat for Sidious.
The last three quotes provide absolutely no material showing that Sidious use his TK powers to pull down the Lusankya.
The only one which still prove that Palpatine done this is the third one from Abel G. Peña who explicitly say that the Lusankya feat is the same as the Ravager one from Nihilius and the Corsair one from Kun but in reverse.
There is two questions that need to be ask for this quote: Have we any proof that Abel G. Peña write this ? What is the value of author in that context ?
Having no idea of the answer to the first question I will trust the good faith of SithRevenant (who is, if I 'm right, the first to provide this quote) and say that yes Abel G. Peña done this (I will enjoy if anyone can provide me the proof of the veracity of the quote).
However, for the second one there is way more reserve. Indeed, Abel is neither the creator of Exar Kun nor the one who first describe what happend to the Lusankya. So here is autority can be questioned. In addition, we are used to dismiss even main author about a character feat. I will take at exemple T. Veicht who is the author of Dark Empire and that deny Sidious the capacity of controlling force storm or even to create them whitout the existence of Luke. As you can see, we have no reason to trust Abel Peña about the Lusankya feat and in addition to this we have no proof that he have been granted any kind of authority about this.
So the conclusion here is the following, we have basically no proof that burying the Lusankya was a TK feat for Sidious. However, controlling a similar ship have been done by a weaker force user: Irek Ismaren who done this by using Mechu-Deru.
By tapping into the strength of the Force, Lord Irek was able to reactivate the relay and bring the battlemoon here, where it will be close enough for him to control its on-board programming directly.”
--Children of the Jedi
“That supership Mara told us about, the other half of the assault on Belsavis … it’s on its way! Irek summoned it—Roganda’s son, Irek—” “That kid?” “He’s trained in the Force, he can influence mechanicals … He’ll make hash out of our fleet …”
--Children of the Jedi
Coincidentally, while Irek Ismaren was using his subelectronic converter to call the ship through the Force, Jedi Master Luke Skywalker had already encountered the Eye in the Moonflower Nebula.
--The Essential Chronology
A possibility will be that Palpatine do the same with the Lusankya. (I didn't say that this is a proof of anything, only that we shouldn't forget this possibility).
MISSCONCEPTION N°15: Sidious lightning are more powerful than a lightsaber
This missconception exist mainly because people didn't made differences between the two different energy base attack that are: lightsaber blade (which is photon) and force lightning (which are made of electron). But even whitout the difference taking into account there is plenty of proof that Sidious lightning aren't "more potent" than lightsaber.
The best proof is during the fight between Windu and Sidious:
The Force lightning was hurting Master Windu now, hurting him badly.
As you can see here, Windu was tanking the lightning of Palpatine for some time but continue to fight even with the lightning striking at his hand and his chest. As a comparison, when Anakin cut his arm, he didn't resist. This is a really simple proof that Sidious lightning aren't "more powerful" than a lightsaber.
Now lets see what is the proof for people arguing that Sidious's force lightning are "more potent" than lightsaber:
Immediately she bucked, tentacles flailing, and he drove his lightsaber down into her back. To his surprise, the blade only bit partially and then slipped to the side. [...]
His Master raised both hands and sent a storm of Force lightning into the queen, enmeshing her in sizzling blue lines. She screamed and spasmed in agony, her mandibles parting wide to reveal the rows of her teeth as the lightning tore at her carapace and the organs underneath, burning her inside and out.
For someone who have no knowledge of science this could be a proof but factually this isn't one. What we know is that the lylek queen carapace is able to stop the blade of a lightsaber (basicaly a focus ray of photon) but fail to resist some lightning (basicaly a deplacement of electron). This made me think about one material known as a miror. Nowdays, we have nearly perfect miror who can reflect nearly every single photon that hit its surface, and we can do this on really thin object. But this mirror would be absolutely unable to resist the slightest lightning that hit it, indeed they cannot absorb or reflect that sort of energy.
An interresting fact about the Lylek is to know that they have an exoskeleton. It seems pretty realistic that their exoskeleton can absorb/deflect lightsaber blade but not resist lightning.
So clearly we have zero proof that Sidious lighting are more potent that lightsaber but we have proof that they aren't.
MISSCONCEPTION N°16: Sidious Force Storm can destroy easily a world
This theory is based on a false scaling of the Force storm and some others missinterpreted quotes.
First of all the scaling:
- A battlecruiser jump (when going to hyperspace) in the planer Pammant, fracturing it to the core.
- The Executor was able to tank three Imperial Star Destroyer coming out of hyperspace without any problem.
- The Eclipse was known as the most modern ship so have the best shielding capacity.
- A Force Storm of Sidious was able to easily destroy the Eclipse.
This scaling have two huge problems:
- first of all we didn't know if the fracture of Pammant was only due to the battlecruiser jump into the planet or if the hyperdrive that have been damaged is the reason for the core to fractured (to draw a simple comparion, you can launch a nuclear strike but if you didn't triggered the nuclear explosion, the impact won't be so huge, being only the result of a multi-tons object falling at great speed). If the hyperdrive exploded this could explain why the planet core was fracture and why the Executor suffer so little damage when three ISD crash on it.
- The second one is a way bigger problem, once again people are comparing things that aren't comparable: an ISD crashing into the Executor/Pammant is purely based on physical confrontation, a force storm is pure energy. And it is easily believable that ISDs have both type of shield: a physical one and a energy one. So Palpatine destroying the Eclipse through energy attack didn't prove at all that he can destroy a planet "to its core".
Now the quote:
"The Reborn Emperor used this at Da Soocha. It has the power to kill worlds."
We have only this quote that prove that Sidious is able to destroy worlds with his force storm. And we can ask if by using "kill" Skywalker mean: destroying a planet or just killing every living thing on it.
But in contrast we have quotes saying that force storm full power can only destroy at best the surface of worlds:
“It must be understood that anger can funneled through the body and released near the heart at the ‘vital gate.’ The destruction can can be unleashed by this method is immense. Thousands of enemies can be annihilated in a single act of malice.”
Capable of creating annihilating vortices, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off worlds.
We even have a quote precisely saying that at this moment Sidious cannot destroy worlds:
“In time, the channeled anger of the dark side will prove just as destructive as the Death Star. There will no longer be a need for costly constructions.”
Last but not least, a bad interpretation of what happend at the end of Dark Empire allow some people to think that Force storm can consume worlds. This is clearly a mistake based on a poor reading of Dark Empire.
The whole theory is based on this two pictures:
But here there is a clear error. The ring aroung Da Soocha V isn't any Force Storm. Just look at this picture and you will understand why:
As you can see, in the red circle we are in the force storm and the rebel fleat is destroy whereas in the green circle the ships are ok. Moreover, we have that this is only from this moment that the Emperor create Force storm (see the part underline in red) and we have already a view of a similar ring in previous pages of the comic
As shown here, we have absolutely zero proof that Sidious can destroy worlds with his force storm, maybe if he had survived he could have done this but factually he didn't.
Sidious is clearly the most powerful dark side user of all time but he isn't any god. I hope that this blog allow you to have a better understanding of his limitations and stop lots of people to made stupid reflections or stupid threads (ex: Sidious vs Full Power Abeloth/the Son/TOR universe/...)
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