Wyldsong's forum posts

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#1 Posted by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Posted by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: Head's up, the overall content will maintain. There will be edits though to correct typos and such, so if something I typed doesn't make sense, bear with me. I will review the thing again tomorrow and make corrections=)

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#3 Edited by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: And here it is, my next entry into our little discussion. You laid out a good response post, and you ramped up the difficulty level of this discussion...but now, I must return the act in kind, and show you what my team can really do. I hope you are ready for this my friend...because there is a lot I am about to lay down for you to consider=)

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I have six characters to discuss...so I am going to start out by expanding on the Irredeemable/Incorruptible portion of the team. Then I will talk about the Goddess Amp, since it lays down the groundwork for the section that follows it, the Suicide Risk team portion of things. After that, I will run a section on rebuttals, then close out with some updated considerations for the overall battle.

As for your team, I will refer to it as simply "Despero" or that "Big Red Guy", since you don't really have a team, but are in fact debating with one guy here=P

Irredeemable/Incorruptible Expanded:

I will discuss Max Damage again in the rebuttals section, but honestly, his powers are very simple, and they don't really need expanding upon. He has been shown to gain an increase in speed, strength and durability with a lack of sleep, and has been shown to reach levels to go toe to toe with the Plutonian. Basically, he will be not really be discussed here, since there just isn't much more to talk about with him. He is Plutonian's equal in this fight, but doesn't have the more exotic powers to fall back on, and in essence, is meant to be not much more than an obstacle. While that is still an important function, he is just not meant to be the one to stop Despero in this fight. He is here to help slow him down and be a distraction, nothing more.

So, I am going to do a breakdown on the Plutonian and Qubit, and now reveal why they are probably much larger threats than anyone realizes...


Alright, let's really look at how the Plutonian's powers actually work. This is important, since there is the question of how he can harm a character like Despero. So, I am going to drop these three scans here, and they require very careful consideration:

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Tony is not a physical character, like Superman. Tony is effectively warping reality, altering quantum mechanics and such subconsciously. The good news for Despero, he doesn't realize he is doing it, so he is not a full scale reality warper. Although he was taught and has learned a few tricks:

There is also the fact that he is a low level telepath as well (he gave himself that power, he didn't start with it), but his feats aren't enough to really say he can go at it with Despero in telepathic battle, or are they? I mean, he gave himself telepathy and I could point out how his powers work on a subconscious level, and amp up his abilities and defenses...since in the scan I showed you where he stood up to the weight of star system bearing down on him? That was all subconscious power usage on his part, and while they showed his eyes open in the scan, he had retreated deep in his own mind in the story. He wasn't conscious and aware of what was going on at the time with his body. So his subconscious was what was reacting and powering him...it's something to think about...though I won't hinge any arguments on a telepathic battle from Tony in this debate, so no worries. It is just food for thought based on how his powers work.

Another big take away from all of this, he manipulates the density of his own matter, and the matter of foes/objects. He can effectively reduce someone or something's durability in order to harm it...a key piece of intel here=)


Anyhow, speed wise, he has:

He has pretty insane travel speeds, combat speeds, and thought processing plus reactionary speed/ability. I won't really bother with the senses, since I doubt that Despero will be doing any hiding. His senses are Superman level, if not a bit above, and I will discuss them when and if needed. What will be more important to talk about is the durability and healing angle...


He has tanked hits from Modeus who had taken over Bette's body. Modeus amplified her power, which was to create miniature gravity wells, and was capable of drawing the energy from stars, snuffing them out to power his/her hits. Tony was in love with Bette, and wasn't really fighting back, at least, not at first. So, he took a prolonged beating from star powered hits, never lost consciousness, though he had a bloody lip and nose, and a black eye. While you don't see all of that in those scans, I bring it up, because he heals up pretty quickly in a few panels, and as you will see, is back to 100% fairly speedily:

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Now the page before that, he still had some blood on his face, no black eye though. And to even get to the point of a bloody nose/lip and black eye, it took a few gravity well attacks with little effect, a city busting gravity well attack which didn't seem to affect him much, then about 3-4 pages of getting beat down with star draining/powered hits without him bothering to fight back, and remaining conscious through the whole ordeal.

Now to top this off, the aliens that had him in a prison of sorts, and dropped the weight of a star system on him? They basically recreated his skin, and wrapped him in it while he was still trapped in his mind to help keep him incapacitated while they shot him at a sun. So, he was blasted through a sun, which destroys the container he was in and the skin wrapping, but as you can see, he is still sleeping like a baby afterwards. Now to clarify, there was a prison built in the heart of a sun, so that is where he ended up and is why you see alien's in suits looking at him. Of course, the skin that was based on his was an artificial construct, and not part of him, so his subconscious powers didn't protect such, just him. I would say that he is sun level durability in the least.

Now that begs and invites the question, if he is at sun level durability, why did I say he can be affected by energy attacks? Well, one of his foes uses an unknown type of energy that was shown to be able to harm and affect Plutonian. We don't know what it is exactly. So it makes it difficult to say that he can just no sell energy attacks, but again, he can withstand a sun pretty easily and alien lasers do bounce off of him. So either Survivor was very stupidly powerful, or he has a special energy that bypasses Plutonian's defenses.

Well, I think that is enough to chew on for the moment, so let's discuss Qubit...


Alright, Qubit's physicals are nothing to write home about. That said, he is probably the most dangerous member of my team. If he were face to face with Despero, without being ready, Despero would wipe the floor with him, no contest. Give him a few seconds to whip a device up, or just come in prepared, then Despero will have some issues. Make no mistake about it, this super genius is extremely dangerous. His power, allows him to take bits and pieces of junk (or even normal, intact, and working machinery), and modify, warp and change it to whatever he needs, like so:

And so on. I think we get the basic idea. If he can imagine it, he can basically make a device for it, if the science works for it that is. He is a master of teleportation technology. At one point, he decided to permanently destroy every portal in all of spacetime. What this did was make teleportation impossible, as the science no longer worked for teleportation thanks to Qubit. Which kind of trapped him, albeit with a guy that could punch you back in time by a few seconds. Qubit using the junk at hand, enhances and puts the temporal punching guy's power into overdrive, and makes it work in a way it previously did not. Yes...he can enhance and change powers. Let's keep that in mind. Anyhow, back to the scene. He creates a week long loop in time, then pulls versions of himself from 168 hours in the future on down, to basically help completely reinvent science from the ground up over the course of a week to make teleportation possible again.

So even if the science doesn't work because of his own actions, given time, he can rewrite sciences to do what he wants. Again, super genius in play here. A few examples of his genius and tech for display:

Do we get the idea that he is utterly bad arse and awesome? And again, he is the master of teleportation tech. Oh, and he can incorporate teleportation tech into his shielding. Plus he can weaponize his teleportation tech=)

Well, enough on Qubit for the moment. We'll circle back to some of this in a bit, but I really need to discuss the Goddess Amp before I go much further...

Goddess Amp:

Two members of my team are blessed by their goddess in this battle. Now the goddess is not someone we see a whole lot of, but it is dual-natured being, for destruction and healing. The goddess has feats of temporal control, reality warping, bringing the dead back to life, and is pretty much just a PIS machine, being able to do whatever needs to be done. We don't know if the goddess has a physical form, but falls in the realm of skyfathers and may possibly even be an abstract. All in all, the true power levels of the goddess, are not all that important. What is important, are the effects the goddess has when she blesses her chosen.

We need a few examples to work with here, so I am going to start with Ada Robins. When her powers were awakened, she found out she could create things, inanimate objects, people, dogs, money, whatever:

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If she is creating massive amounts of an object, it can take time. She was even once tasked with creating enough of a specific explosive to blow up a planet, but she pointed out it would take multiple hours with rest to make the process go faster:

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Now, there is also Jael Isketendi. Jael has a form of teleportation for a power, wherein she can teleport objects, even into one another, which can create explosive results:

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At best, her power is up to building/castle levels:

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To make a long story short, these two were recruited by Requiem to help save two Earth's, since the Men of Gold, basically launched five alternate Earth's at one Earth to wipe it out (the Earth that Requiem and the exiles were banished to), and there was also the issue of a black vortex of nothingness destroying the other Earth (not intentional, but the Earth that the Men of Gold are on, and that the exiles are originally from). Requiem's part in the plan was to save the one planet from the nothingness, and as you can tell, the two he recruited admitted that they thought the plan was stupid, and beyond their power levels:

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Which while it was far beyond their power levels, it wasn't actually a stupid plan, since Leo then goes and makes a deal with the goddess, and she amped their power levels:

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What does that mean for our heroes exactly? Ada recreated the Earth in a matter of seconds...cities, roads, mountains, oceans, trees, grass...basically she recreated everything that was on the particular Earth getting destroyed by the void. Then Jael in a matter of seconds, teleported every living thing from people to microbes to the new Earth. While Requiem, again, city level at best on a normal day, regulated and put into place gravity/inertia, controlled the natural forces, weather, seasons, oxygen, tides and all of the other stuff that makes the Earth go round and function, in a matter of seconds, in a planetary level showing of power:

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The goddess amp...ramps up two members of my team by quite a bit. Again, consider that she took two people that were pretty far below planetary levels, giving one the power to recreate an exact replica of the Earth in a matter of seconds, and then giving the other the power to teleport every living thing from the old Earth, microbes and all to the new Earth. They each hit planetary level feats with this amp...and Requiem was already above each them in power levels, city level at least, and he has this amp...a final note on the amp, T becomes the "handmaiden" of the goddess, and Requiem ends up giving himself to the goddess for T's resurrection. So this is less of a temporary amp, and more of a permanent state of being for these characters by the end of the series.

Alright, let's really dig into the Suicide Risk portion of things with this in mind...

Suicide Risk Expanded:

I do have more to bring up about Dr. Maybe, but I think I will save that for my next post. Yes he is a bit of a fixture and a focal point, but I don't want to drop everything all at once. For now, I am going to expand a bit more on Requiem and T...


I've talked about a lot of things Requiem can do. At just his base level, which would be city at most, he was able to contain heats that burned as hot as the sun in the palm of his hand, and kept the people that stood just a few feet away safe from those heats to boot. I've given you examples of energy, weather, gravity, environmental, water control and more. Granted, that was all at his basic levels of power. And I have also shown you that he can manipulate his powers and multitask with an insane mental processing speed, one worthy of speedster levels. One thing I did not show you...he can affect matter on the atomic and molecular levels.

The Men of Gold, traveled back in time to the site of a battle that was going to happen, and basically turned the battlefield into a ticking time bomb. Requiem defuses the battlefield by loosening the covalent bonds of the atoms in the rock, reducing their explosives to dust:

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Of course, being able to do such, he can also pop heads:

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Though he can pull an even more devastating trick. The scene where Dr Maybe temporarily takes over Minus-I? This is how Requiem dealt with Minus-I:

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He basically tore him apart on a molecular level. Ouch. Also a good durability feat, since Requiem was point blank for that as well. To close this out, since we are talking about teleportation quite a bit, Requiem's shields can cancel out teleportation style attacks, like below:

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With this in mind, just remember, I already showed you where Requiem went to a planetary scale with his powers by regulating gravity, control forces and more on the new Earth that was created...alright, enough about Requiem, let's talk a little more about T...


T is a complicated kind of character to discuss. That said, her reality manipulation ability is pretty awesome. Now I need to revisit this scene, because it seems there is a misunderstanding. T was being attacked by three creatures in this scene, while her aunt (in the white) was wounded. What T did here, was turn reality in her current area, upside down. She wanted to get rid of the bad guys, not her aunt or anything else. Which is exactly what she did. The bad guys fall away into space, and herself and her aunt remain...which is what T wanted:

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She was able to keep what she wanted in the location, just ridding the area of the bad guys, who were very obviously gone. This was done without the goddess amp. I will address this again in a bit, but I am going to drop a few more examples of her abilities here, so we all understand that she isn't limited to a few simple things. This girl is a walking, talking plot device, that has shown the ability to make whatever she needs to happen, to just kind of happen. A lot of the following is when she was just discovering her powers, prior to Tracey merging with Terza, but she can turn invisible when she needs to:

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How about taking over a laser defense system by talking to a machine and making it attack her foes:

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Or...turning into pure data and entering a machine:

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Even better, pulling the back up data of Leo's being from the machine, then turning that data into a literal ghost:

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She can also make herself and her ghostly father both invisible, create a portal that Maybe and Requiem (this was before Leo and Requiem merged) cannot see, and can keep her and her father's mind hidden from Maybe's telepathic powers:

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Plus they are able to converse with one another, without Requiem and Maybe hearing it, and she somehow knocks Maybe out with a touch:

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How about this...T went to retrieve two humans that had a device that was allowing them to awaken the exile's powers. They have the device in their hands and a gun aimed at T, who was nonplussed by the whole situation. With a thought, she teleports them all to the location of her father and Maybe. They no longer have a gun in hand, and T has the device in her hands:

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Even with all of this awesomeness, T is still a bit of a glass canon, at least prior to the goddess amp. That said, I can give you scenes of her healing from being torn up by laser blasts or even coming back from the dead, walking and talking while missing her heart and major organs. With all that I have shown, it shouldn't be surprising, but I will circle back to this stuff next post if needed. What you really need to see though, involves the glass canon bit. Remember, T's powers are amplified by the goddess in this battle. So, T's aunt, Diva, kills a technician who was opening a portal. The machine was started, but no coordinates were entered, so it created a nothingness, that was expanding and destroying all matter:

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Nothing was able to exist in it, well nothing except a goddess amped T:

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So what she did was allow the void to grow to a specific mass, and then directed it to destroy the 5 rogue Earth's that threatened the Earth the exiles were sent to:

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She existed inside of, and managed to direct a multi-planet destroying force thanks to the goddess. Then she erased it from existence, though admittedly, removing the nothingness after it had eaten 6 planets was at the cost of her life...though the goddess did bring her back.

Phew...let's do some rebuttals and get this closed out...

Team A Rebuttals

Alright, here we are, almost done. I am going to address some of your points from the Team A/B sections of your post right now, with a few additional thoughts for good measure. This may get a little wordy...sorry about that. In fact, this is getting broken down into two sections of rebuttals to make this easier on the eyes=)

Plutonian's Star system feat would fall under lifting strength and durability - The first of which isn't very useful in combat, however the second is pretty good

Durability wise, you are right, it is pretty freaking fantastic, especially considering that it happened while he wasn't fully conscious, and his subconscious was what reacted, allowing him to pull off the feat. That said, strength wise, I have to disagree. It may not prove a single thing about striking force, which is another matter altogether, but let's say it comes to grappling. You don't think someone with that level of lifting strength wouldn't be seriously effective at grappling? While a professional body builder that can lift a ton of weight may not be able to hit like Bruce Lee, that strength isn't rendered useless in combat. Now don't get me wrong, some skill still goes a long way in grappling, but that sort of strength is a massive benefit in such. Despero has two of these guys coming at him...

Besides, as I have talked about above, Tony subconsciously manipulates matter and density when he strikes. He weakness the hardness/durability of whatever he hits, and basically increases his own striking force in the process. Pretty sure Despero won't be laughing off Plutonian's attacks.

Though if it turns out that Blunt force cant punt Plutonian down, Despero can Resort to Using his Energy attacks to Attack Plutonian and Co. Despero energy beams are powerful enough to match pace Hal Jordans attack

As for Hals strength, His friend Pieface was Capable to recreating Oa after it was destroyed(which is an entire planet) by Kyle while fighting Parallax, using Hal Jordans ring. Pieface had 0 experience using the ring, So Hal(a Master Green lantern) would be capable of accomplishing those feats with similar energy output

Unfortunately, feats of creation don't have any real bearing on feats of destruction. Now, this isn't fully a critique against you, since you do go into something that is more than applicable for the discussion=)

Moving onto more Combat applicable Scans, Hal Jordan was capable of blowing a whole straight through Amazo. Some versions of Amazo will passively have all ability activated at all times(Like Morrinsons version of Amazo), However, this version of Amazo had to physically activate each power set. Luckily for us, we see that Amazo had Supermans power activated(Via his chest symbol in which we see the Superman Logo, and the fact that he was accessing Heat vision). Essentially, Hal blew a hole through Superman

This is better, but here is the issue. What was Superman's durability level at this time? We can't say he was at sun level, because he feeds on the sun. It powers and amps him, so while I am sure we can show feats of Superman standing in a sun...it wouldn't be a good comparison just due to the sheer fact that the sun is what gives Superman his power. What is his durability against energy attacks from that era? With Plutonian, it was an unknown form of energy that affected him. That said, we have feats of lasers bouncing off of him, and he slept through being blasted through a sun. He also isn't powered by a sun, so I don't see it as a reach to place him at sun levels of durability. Are Despero's energy blasts of that level?

Or, seeing as I have access to Despero Flame of Py'tar feats, There's nothing stopping him from Reality warping your team into glass, or something of the sort. As you can see below, The Flame of Py'tar gives Despero such control over matter, it allows him to change it into energy, and vice versa. One great example of Despero utilising this is when He changes a Building(an inanimate object) into a Dragon quite easily. Since we've been told Despero can do this Vice versa, He would be able to Transform Plutonian and Max damage into anything he chooses. Air, or Iron; Maybe even a Disperse them into Solar energy. Unless Team A have resisted such attacks before, this is a sure fire way to put them down permanently

Ah, now we get into the flames. I have to admit, some reality warping ability is a great boon on his part. Still, there are a few problems with your hypothetical scenario here. It's one thing to be told a character can do something, and another to see them actually do it. I mean, you have questioned several statements of mine, so I have to question this. What we have to consider, for starters, is the character's mindset. Would Despero even think to do this? I mean, he turns a building into a dragon, then creates some stone guys to fight for him. Going through a respect thread, I haven't seen one single instance of him transmuting his foes directly. For starters, I don't think such tactics have crossed his mind. It's not really in character for him to use that power as such. As well, is he even proficient enough in the power to change a living being into something else? Something that has a will, and might possibly be able to resist outside forces trying to change them?

I think we are going to need to see some examples of him having the mindset to even do such, and being proficient enough with the flames to do it. I mean, yeah, he can make creatures from inanimate objects to fight for him, which shows he can affect material that isn't sentient with the flames, and make it work for him. Which is quite a bit different that affecting a sentient being and doing such. Plus there is the fact that I have a matter/energy manipulator that has been amped by the goddess, with Requiem, and I have a reality manipulator that has been amped by the goddess with T. Requiem was shown to be planetary in the least with the amp, and T held off and manipulated a multi-planet destroying attack with the amp. I mean heck, even prior to the amp, she shut down the Men of Gold's ability to teleport from their Earth to the exile's Earth. Then, when they needed to speak to the Men of Gold, she created a tiny reality to bridge the two realities for them to travel through, without dropping her teleportation barrier:

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And this was again, prior to receiving a power boost from the goddess. I also need to note, when she shut down teleporting, the goddess existed in the Men of Gold's reality, but was able to exert her influence to the exile's reality for her followers. When T put the block up between realities, she inadvertently caused damage to the space-time continuum itself. This had the effect of keeping the goddess' influence in the other reality, which is why Diva was freaking out. Anyhow, I kind of think that between Requiem and T, that they can handle the flames and the head popping bit. Also for the Plutonian...he subconsciously alters quantum mechanics and is effectively a minor reality warper. While that may not do much for anyone else, pretty sure it offers some fantastic defense against minor reality warping, since his subconscious pretty much does it without him even realizing it.

With that said, your whole plan revolves around the assumption That Despero does actually complies, and decides to attack Team A first and ignore Team B - which isn't likely. Despero isn't like most of your average DC brutes - He doesn't always attack the strongest first. This much should be made apparent from the numerous times Despero has fought the Justice league. After reforming from having every one of his Atoms being scrambled across the whole of Space, Despero wills himself back to life via Hate(Talk about being broken) to get revenge on the Justice league. Instead of going after Martian Manhunter, Or one of the other stronger members, he goes after Steel(who by this point had been injured, and is living off machines) And then next he goes after Gypsy; a frail girl, who's only ability apart from being extremely irritating is causing mere second-rate illusions. Yet Despero tracks down her family, and decides to deal with her Next by Killing them, just to torment her

Well, the weaker team is defended by a massive powerhouse, which is T. The very same T that can turn invisible, turn others invisible, and hide herself and others from the mind of a telepath. Plus, Qubit has teleportation shielding...and this battle starts on opposite sides of the city, out of site of one another. When this fight starts, he will likely only be seeing Requiem, Plutonian, and Max Damage when they all finally meet up=)

There's 2 things to consider here, which are that he went after the weakest member first

Well, thanks to T, there is new information for you to consider. I thought about bringing it up last post, but since I am working with very limited showings on my end, I decided to save it for this post along with the goddess amp. Yes, yes, a cheap way to drag the conversation out=)

T can make her portion of the team invisible both mentally and physically. Considering this portion of the team doesn't have flashy attacks to lead back to where they are located, Despero may be hard pressed actually finding them to do anything to them.

Im going to add emphasis to this scan, Because the only reason you're team is lasting more than a Second, no, a Millisecond, Is due to your claim of Dr maybe being able to keep out Despero telepathy. Now, by no means an I saying Dr maybe is strong enough to do that(This will be discussed further down the line), but you're only chance at survival entirely depends on Dr maybe protecting your minds, otherwise Despero would turn everyone here into a vegetable. As soon as Despero realises Something(Or someone) is blocking his Telepathy, He's going to to go after said person first.

I will get to the expanded thoughts on this when we get to the Team B portion of things. Needless to say, they should be fine=)

Or using one of his Flame of Py'tar Reality warped minions to do so for him

More on this in the team B segment, but they have to know where to find Team B...plus there is the matter of Qubit's teleportation shielding and so on...

Nonetheless, I don't see Plutonian and max damage being able to keep Despero away from the 'Squishier members'.

You got two guys with some pretty awesome strength that may be able to rival that of Despero here. Plus there is Plutonian directly, whose own reality warping power reduces his foes defenses and amps his own strikes. And that is all if Despero can even find the squishier members, whom he won't know are even there...as when this fight starts, he sees three guys, two of which will be physically attacking him, and the third who will be flying in the sky doing his thing. More on him in the Team B discussion though=)

Firstly as they can't even deal with Despero's Energy attacks/Reality warping

I have already discussed this above, but to rehash...Plutonian has had lasers bounce off of him and slept peacefully while being blasted through a sun. Plus, his powers heal him. Max Damage, will have the same durability, minus the healing. Without a feat that loops back around to Superman, where does Despero's energy attacks rank on the sun level scale? Also again, T can heal. Now for the reality warping bit, as discussed, show me the proficiency to use the power as such, or even the mindset to consider half the things you said. Then we also have to consider that Plutonian is a minor reality warper as well, with his powers subconsciously defending him, plus you have a goddess amped Requiem who can manipulate on the atomic/molecular level, with T's reality manipulation amped by the goddess on top of all of this.

Let's not forget...the goddess took people that were far below planetary levels, and amped them to such levels. T and Requiem are each a force to behold in this battle, and you have seen each work their powers at insane levels now...

Secondly because he's been known to ignore the more direct members of teams before, And thirdly because as soon as Despero realises someone is attempting to blocking his Telepathy(Again, not saying Dr maybe can block his Telepathy) He's going to go after Said someone first.

If he can even find them before my team has taken him down that is.

If anything, Despero could just release an AOE attack to pop the heads of the members kept in the back. He used this against some Elder on his home planet, Kalanor

He still has to find the squishy members, plus we still have Requiem and T on the board, the same T who survived in a multi-planet destroying nothingness with her amped powers of reality manipulation. Then, how does the attack work against people inside teleportation shielding? Plus as stated, I think T and Requiem can fend off such an attack with their considerable power and abilities.

Now, I'm not going to argue that this move will take down the stronger members( Team A specifically, so Plutonion, Max damage), as Despero hasn't used this move on anyone of notable Durability. But the 'Squishier guys' on your team? They're going to need some internal durability feats, or something of the sort, in order to suggest they can survive Despero popping their heads open from the inside out.

By my count, Requiem has already been in space and went through reentry, plus was point blank for a controlled fusion explosion...all before the amp. T has withstood a multiplanet destroying attack with the amp. So that leaves Qubit and Dr Maybe, assuming he can find them, the range of the attack (which we have only seen a short range), and how that attack works against teleportation shielding...

Another very impressive feat for Plutonian, but i'm afraid i'm going to have to blow the whistle on it. It's a very good Strength feat, but this would fall under Lifting strength, which isn't remotely as battle orientated as Striking strength.

And as discussed above, still battle applicable, just not for striking. Plutonian already has striking covered based on how his powers work, and as for Max Damage, lifting strength still works, since he can still grapple with Despero and such.

Every time Despero comes into contact with the Justice league, he always manages to keep up with them/tag them. Im as to a loss as to why you place Superman ahead of Despero speed wise. Especially since he's been blitzed by Despero on about 3 different occasions.

I hate having to even discuss this part, since I don't want to come off as downplaying your character or the feats, but again, there is no real indication of actual speeds in those scans. It's not like Superman's feats of being able to land numerous superspeed punches. That feat, we can kind of quantify, and place in the realm of superspeed. Then again, there is the fact that numerous of the superspeedy characters in DC have had issues with peak human speeds. At this point, it has become kind of an established matter of fact in DC. I have seen numerous ideas as to why this is, the best one being that these characters just had not sped up their awareness to their highest levels in those scenes. So slower characters tend to be able to compete since the higher tiers just don't always operate naturally at their best speeds.

Talking to numerous Despero fans, the consensus seems to be not that he is faster than the foes he faces, but that he is able to steamroll the league just based on the fact that he is truly a physically imposing powerhouse that they have a really hard time harming and containing. That's not a knock against the character, but I haven't seen a quantifiable speed feat that would make me think he is faster than Superman and the like.

Looking back at the Scans, he never actually used telepathy to Tag the Flash. In the first Scan he uses Hal Jordan to coerce Flash towards him, before grabbing him - which would require at least some sort of reactionary Speed. In the second he straight up just attacked the flash with his psionic attack

I really have no way to tell on what he tagged the Flash with my friend. There is an attack noise with a flash effect, and he is dropped. As for grabbing the Flash, it shows some reactionary ability, but it still depends on what the Flash's speed was at in the scene...which seems like it is going to be hard to truly gauge.

Superman literally saw Despero was coming, and only managed to barely push Alfred out of the way before being hit by Despero. He had no time to get out of the way himself. However, Despero has done this again on another occasion, He wallops Clark before he could react

That's still not quantifiable though, especially since slower than Superman himself has managed to tag the Man of Steel and confound him and so on.

Despero was also able to Bullrush Matrix Supergirl, before slamming her into the ground and delivering several punches before she can comprehend whats going on. Another great Speed showing

Those scans are coming in far too small for me to see. So I will hold off on the comments and wait and see if you can give me a larger scan to look at.

Now i don't think this statement is all too fair. Different writers will evaluate characters at different power levels according to their Story. However, when looking at their feats across the board, Superman is consistently portrayed as a FTL , nanosecond timer. Just because he has a few low showings doesn't mean those negate every other showing he has, especially as his FTL Feats are consistent. Getting tagged by Deathstroke would be an Outlier. Same goes for J'onn as well.

Actually, the statement is more than fair, especially when things like this go on all the time in those books. Unfortunately, without anything to denote actual levels of speed in a showing and the fact that these characters have had trouble with street leveler's speeds on a more than a consistent basis, I have to call this sort of stuff into contention. I agree that Superman is in fact FTL and a nanosecond timer. He just doesn't always operate at those levels...basically he is not operating with his awareness at those levels 24/7, and the same can be said for all of the upper tiers of the JLA.

Team B Rebuttals

This might be a bit longer than the last section...starting with your Requiem discussion...


Has Requim ever controlled energy as powerful as Despero eye beams?

He held heats described to be as hot as the sun in his hands, and withheld the heat to the point that even people a few feet from him felt nothing from it. Not to mention, that was all prior to the goddess amp. So I think he stands a pretty good chance here.

Why is this impressive? Well the Rock of eternity is the focal point of all magic in the DCU, and exsits in every and all different universes, meaning it would have an infinite and incalculable weight. Though even going off sheer size, the average skyscraper weights around 300,000 tons or so, and The Rock of eternity is mostly dense rock so it should weigh almost double that. So with the huge amount of Nth metal that Despero absorbed, he should be more than fine at handling the increase of Gravity, and decreasing the Gravity won't affect him either, as he's been in space before(while chasing Martian manhunter). I showcased this in my openers speed section, so i see relevance of me doing so again.

So I really think it is hard to quantify the Rock of Eternity. While it should be an impressive feat, just on what scale is it impressive? Regardless, if Requiem removes gravity, Nth metal won't really help, though, Despero can still fly. Still, sudden removal of gravity when he isn't expecting it, will be jarring. Now increasing the gravity? Requiem with the goddess amp has worked planetary level gravity and Plutonian has stopped the inertia of the moon. Coupled with those two, I am not really sure I am seeing him handling any sort of increase Requiem can bring, especially with Plutonian's ability backing him up. We have some interesting options between these two=)

Despero can survive the heat of the Flame of Py'taar, which was created in a huge Nuclear explosion(Which can range from Several millions in Celsius) and can fly through space with absolute ease(Which has temperatures below freezing). Please excuse me for not find this ability all too impressive.Nth metal also allows the user to regulate body temperature. I already showcased this in the scan i uploaded earlier of Hawkman.

It's alright, we still have planetary level gravity control, and goddess amped powers, like molecular control type abilities...so imagine a goddess amped Requiem pulling the trick he did on Minus-I against Despero? Could be fun to see...

Impressive, albeit these are being used on a bit too much of a smaller scale to suggest that it will work Against Despero Energy attacks.

Sounding like a broken record here, but goddess amped power, so forth and so on. He is much more powerful than what was shown in those initial scans=)

After being Joint with the Nth metal, Despero fluids will not be easily manipulated. Despero has such control over the Nth metal inside his body that he managed to weaken Hawkmans Nth metal, So Requiem is going to have a very hard time trying to do so, if he even can

And up against a guy that can work his powers on a planetary scale? Not sure I agree with you on this...

With that said, I should also point out that Despero has an incredible Healing factor. He once regenrated from a few Molecules of Nth metal; Meaning that any damage he takes internally should be regenerated quite easily

Well, that is all good and well, at least until Requiem pulls his molecular trick=)

I don't buy Dr maybe having superior Telepathy to Despero anyway, but ill get into that in a moment, so feel free to ignore this comment.

He is again, amped by the goddess. Still, we will discuss Dr Maybe shortly, so I will leave this be.

As I brought up earlier, the Flame of Py'taar feats allow Despero to change matter to energy and energy to matter(Basically minor reality warping), and as such, He can create entire armies of Flying dragons, Gargoyles and Flame mammoths. Despero can summon this to take care of the weaker members on your team(Dr maybe, Quibit etc).

I am not really worried too terribly much about the armies. As stated before, he has to actually be able to locate them. Then there are the teleportation shielding issues to deal with. Not to mention, they are protected directly by the powerhouse T, whose ability isn't energy to matter and matter to energy. It is a goddess amped power of manipulating reality to whatever she needs to do at the time, which as you have seen, covers a wide range of things. Couple that with everything Requiem can do, and this is an insanely powerful combo, one that should be able to easily match Despero's Flame of Py'taar stuff.

You plan on having them protected by a force fields, but those need some feats to suggest Despero minions/Explosion attacks wont one shot them. He also has one more method for dealing with these pesky force fields, which ill bring up very soon.

Goddess amp, planetary levels, at base prior to the amp controlling a city buster with ease, and so on...I think we are good. We shall see about your ideas on dealing with the pesky force fields though=)

Alright, onto your Dr Maybe commentary...

Dr Maybe:

While Despero hasn't communicated through a dimensional barrier, He has controlled Cyborg via Telethapy from light-years away in another Star system, still making it a very impressive feat

I agree, that is impressive. More impressive than detecting minds that were in another reality altogether and pinpointing the location they were going to teleport to? Both are pretty darn cool...

Regardless, Range of TP =/= Strength of TP.

I really have no comment on this, as I do believe him to be a stupidly powerful telepath. He has far more showings to pull from than what I have for Maybe. Regardless, I do have some quality, and Maybe is not only powerful, but crafty with his ability, as I have shown.

Despero has also restored the minds of the Secret society, after their minds had been cleansed by Zatana's magic. Not the same circumstances, but still impressive nonetheless. You've proved that Dr maybe can protect his allies from TP, but i disagree on Dr maybe being able to keep Despero TP out. Ill get onto that in a next

Even IF we go with the idea of him only being able to mount a temporary defense, it may be all that my team needs. Again, more on that later. I want to save a surprise or two for the next post, so yes, I am holding more back. Regardless, remember the discussion about Qubit? He can create tech from junk to amp a person's powers to an insane degree. He took a guy who could only punch people a few seconds to the past, amped and changed his temporal powers to create a temporal loop and summon future versions of Qubit through a time portal to aid him. We have plenty of junk in this locale, not to mention whatever Qubit is carrying with him. Qubit is a beyond genius level intellect, as is Maybe. Pretty sure a tech amp to his powers would work out nicely here=)

Despero possesses an extremely similar feat. He had his whole body hijacked via a Technological collar, which suppresses his entire consciousness, Yet he still managed to grasp his body back for short periods of time. This is extremely similar to how Dr maybe was able to grasp Minus I body; However, Despero managed to regain consciousness for a way longer period of time... enough to have a full on fight in with Supergirl. While Dr maybe was only capable to controlling Minus I body for 10 Seconds. This should make Despero's feat slightly more impressive

Sorry, but that is actually different. Minus-I can walk a battlefield and drop his foes all at once, which is how the Men of Gold tend to use him. It's how they took down Requiem's forces when they were losing in the war against him:

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Now I wish I could show you the size of the army, and this scene in more detail, but Minus-I drops an army by strolling through the field of battle. He drops Diva, Maybe, T, Requiem, and a few others just by walking into a room:

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And Diva, her power comes straight from the goddess. Diva is easily the most powerful character in the room, since this is prior to T and Requiem getting amped. Diva has even shown to be immune to the attacks of other's powers thanks to the goddess. Yet even her blessings/powers are dropped by Minus-I. Despero had to fight against tech that affected him and him alone, and was meant to suppress his consciousness, not cancel out his powers. Minus-I is the absolute negation of powers, even those granted by a skyfather level being. He negates powers and turns them against their users, which can kill those it affects, hence why Maybe was dying when he went and tried what he did. Maybe's feat was an awesome display of his craftiness and power.

So I have to disagree, Despero hasn't shown that kind of ability. The closest to that with Maybe, might be the feat where Maybe had a power inhibitor on, and shut off portions of his brain, then rerouted his mental functions through the lower portions of his brain, while his main portions were basically brain dead. Even then, it still doesn't exactly match up with Maybe's feats, since the devices are each different in their functioning. Maybe has an insane level of control over his mind and his power.

I just don't see fighting a device that suppresses consciousness as being anywhere near the same thing. It's impressive, I will give you that, just for different reasons.

Also, can Minus I automatically negate powers, or is does he have to actively react to such abilities before he can negate them?

You don't have to even be using your power for him to drop you, though in the scene I showed above where he dropped Diva and the group? Maybe was dropped first, because he was actively using his power. So those that are actively using their powers are hit hardest and first, but even those that aren't using their powers have their power negated and turned against them, damaging them. There was never shown to be a reaction on Minus-I's part, just him taking a stroll and people dropping like flies.

Dr maybe wasn't present when he took control over Minus I, So i'd like to know if his Ability negation is passive.

Maybe was present, so I am not sure what you mean. He was laying on a bench dying when he pulled off his feat, which was evident when you see Maybe reminding Requiem how Minus-I's power works.

Though, I will point out that you did leave out the fact, that the only reason he managed to gain control over Minus I was because he died, so it isn't a 'practical' method of choice, as it Required/Requires Dr maybe dying.

Not sure what you are getting at with this my friend. Dying didn't give Maybe an active boost in power. There is literally nothing to indicate such. He was dying, he knew he wasn't going to make it, but tried to his very and bitter end to deal with Minus-I. Which ended up being a successful gambit on his part. He had to use his power to try and find a way in and pull off the feat he pulled off. Minus-I's power was still working, because before we even see that, Requiem tries to use his power and is dropped, which is what leads us to the scene of Maybe reminding Requiem how Minus-I functions.

Anyway, he himself admitted that he didn't really do anything, he only planted sub conscious thoughts in Minus

Actually, he didn't say anything of the sort. Let's break this down...people actively using their powers are hit by Minus-I's ability the hardest. It's kind of part of the reason that Maybe was dying. He was hit at first while using his powers, and then continued to use his powers to try and affect Minus-I. In fact, the scan you showed, reinforces my position. He spent his dying moments actively using his power against a power negating foe, which was actively harming him, trying to find a way in, with his power, to take over Minus-I, albeit temporarily. Which he did, as he was having a full blown conversation with Requiem, responding to his queries from Minus-I's very own mouth while his physical body was dead, talking about how Minus-I's brain was a terrible place to be in and so on. He overrode Minus-I's brain functions with what he wanted via his power, and was able to use that control to suppress Minus-I's power so Requiem could tear him apart on a molecular level.

Again, this was a stupidly awesome feat considering Minus-I's powers and credentials. As a head's up, that scan wasn't withheld for any nefarious reasons. I was just reaching the limit for what could be shown from one book. As I have pointed out, it really doesn't add anything new to what I described, and only reinforces what I have already shown.

Though Feats like these aren't really quantifiable, in a sense that Despero's other feats are. For instance, take Despero's feats of Mind controlling MMH and Aquaman simultaneously. MMH has successfully managed to pierce the protective TP barrier of the magedom, which is capable of Multi-planet level telepathy. Aquaman has also managed to cause pain to all fish in the ocean, which has countless billions of creatures(Showed these in my opener). This allows us to deduce that Despero Telepathy is a good one of two tiers above theirs.

But Dr maybe on the other hand? I do agree resisting your power being negated is a pretty good feat, but its almost impossible to gauge how strong someones Telepathy would need to be in order to do so. In other terms, Unquantifiable. When compared to Despero more clear-cut feats, there's no way for you to prove that this feat puts Dr maybe on par with Despero, specially since he's dont two things similar to this.

I honestly feel this paints a very telling picture on what he can do. He had to use his power against the complete and utter negation of powers. He had to work through having his power turned on him, to find a way into the mind of this foe, and take care of business, while he was dying of a brain hemorrhage and the effort was contributing to that very death. This shows a very insane level of understanding and use of his very powers against a foe that has the power to even drop goddess given power.

I don't put Maybe above Despero overall, I just view each as being very impressive and able in their own rights. Facing off against someone with an overwhelming ability (an ability that overrides a goddess' power), Maybe was put to the test, and passed that test. With that feat alone, I feel he has the skill, craftiness, and ability to make Despero work for it, which is all I really need in the end. He doesn't need to take down Despero, he just needs to buy the team time to do what they need to do. Which I feel I have given sufficient proof of this...plus there is the fact that Qubit's tech can aid him with a bit of a power boost if needed=)

Regardless, even if Dr Maybe somehow manages to block out Despero Telepathy(Again, not agreeing he can), I'm also going to have to ask for feats of Dr maybe using his Telepathy/Telepathy protection in Comabt. Dr maybe always seems to be far away from the front lines of combat in every scan you've shown. How do you expect him to concentrate on protecting the minds of his allies while he has Despero's Building sized Dragons and Gargolyes chasing after him? Scans showcasing Dr Maybe managing to accomplish such impressive feats in combat While Actively tanking/dodging attacks from Enemies must be permitted. The forcefields you boast that are going to protect Team B are going to need some seriously good feats before you can say that they're going to be tanking attacks from Despero Army.

I think I pretty much already covered everything here. If Despero can't find Maybe, then Maybe will have plenty of time to work his magic. I can show you feats of Maybe working on the battlefield, but it isn't really needed. He won't need to dodge attacks, since he will be nice and safe behind teleportation shielding, while his mind and body have both been rendered invisible.

And even if they do posses feats, I should make it known that Despero can Teleport, which means he should be able to Teleport himself/His army inside of the Forcefield. At which point, It'd basically be equivalent to shooting Fish inside a barrel. Even if Team A(Plutonian and Max damage) is meant to distract Despero so he doesn't get the chance to attack Team B, All Despero has to do is wave his hand once to send a couple dozen Monsters at Team B. Team A have absolutely nothing that could stop this;

And can he teleport past a forcefield that is a telportation field itself? Not to mention that T has shut down teleportation between realities before...localized teleportation by one foe should be a piece of cake, especially with the goddess backing her. Plus we have the master of teleportation technologies, Qubit on hand. Pretty sure he could whip up a device to counter Despero's teleportation. Regardless, I think anything that manages to enter the barrel with T....won't last long.

Plus, Requiem's shielding has dealt with teleportation style attacks before as well...

while on the other hand, Despero can simply Reality warp Team A into Stone as soon as he gets slightly annoyed.

I have discussed this quite at length already. I don't think that this will be an issue for either portion of my team.

Arguing that Dr maybe can Resist Despero's mind control is one thing, but trying to take over his mind is another.

See the Minus-I discussion. I didn't advocate a full blown control, but enough to cause fugue states, and maybe temporary possession. Add in Qubit amping his powers...well, it is some food for thought.

You keep leaving out the part that Dr maybe literally had to die in order to invade Minus I. And as i've pointed out, Despero has a incredibly similar feats to Dr Maybe's.

Again, see the Minus-I discussion. I didn't leave out the fact that he was dying. In fact, a direct quote from when I first discussed this:

"Dr. Maybe was dying of a brain hemorrhage thanks to the power of Minus I."

That was from my last post. It wasn't left out, and I don't think we need to break it down anymore.

When it comes to actual quantifiable feats, Despero's just seem to be more impressive.

They are both highly impressive, just in different ways. Without knowing what I am holding back, and without knowing about Qubit being able to amp powers, you gave me this much:

You've proved that Dr maybe can protect his allies from TP

So now we have new information to consider. There is another layer to add to this with what Qubit can do if needed. Between what I have discussed here and the last post, coupled with Qubit's aid, and with the last piece of the puzzle I have yet to share...I think we will find that Despero has quite a foe in Dr Maybe...alright, let's move onto your Qubit discussion piece...


As was mentioned earlier, Despero can teleport if need be, and he should be able to teleport his creatures inside your Forcefield. You have no where to run.

Qubit is a master of teleportation. He has created teleportation shielding, managed to negate all teleportation (making the science to do such inoperable), then rewrote science to make teleportation possible again in a different manner. He can create and alter his tech if the science makes sense to him...plus he has the aforementioned teleportation shields. Despero is a novice when it comes to teleportation. Qubit is the master, having even created a teleportation portal that leads to the end of time and the death of the universe, where Plutonian was trapped by his parents. Plus there is a goddess amped T there to boot...all of this also hinging on the idea that he can find this portion of the team and teleport past teleportation shielding.

I think my team will be okay=)

In that Scan we can clearly says that he had build up enough physic resistance to resist Modeus Telepathy. Which impedes me to ask if Modeus posses any impressive feats on Despero's level? If not, then Qubit does't have anything to keep Despero out.

This was a very limited run my friend, so I think you know the answer to this. Once upon a time, Modeus was able to affect the likes of Qubit. After some upgrades, he wasn't. Considering Qubit's technological pedigree, which is stupidly impressive, I wouldn't put it past his abilities to become 100% immune. That said, I never said he would be immune to Despero. Had I thought that, I would not have bothered with some of the other members of the team. What this is, is a layer of defense to consider in addition to everything else. It was not meant as the end all be all for Qubit here.

I've already mentioned how i'm planning to deal with forcefields, and no matter where you Teleport, you wont be able to hide from Despero wrath. He can create Fire attacks which he has on Auto-pilot - They will track you down wherever you run

Fire attacks that will pass harmlessly through a teleportation field, or fire attacks that Requiem can simply tell to not be hot. Either way is good for me=)

Anyhow, more on Qubit in the next post, as there are one or two more things to bring up...let's move onto your T discussion...


There is quite a big difference between removing some cancer cells, and Regenerating entire body parts, which is what is going to be missing after Despero is done with Your team. And by this point, T is going to be neck deep trying to fend off Killer gargoyles and Dragons, so I don't see her having the Opportunity to start healing her comrades.

T didn't remove cancer cells there. Maybe didn't suddenly develop a debilitating brain cancer in that battle my friend. The Men of Gold had plenty of prep before entering the field of battle. They had tech to counter just about everyone there, even Maybe. Maybe, who was on the field of battle and involved in that fight directly. He was being targeted by microwave emission tech developed especially to take him out. They were literally frying his brain:

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And she healed the damage like it was nothing. This is a girl that has resurrected herself, healed herself from laser blasts, created miniature realities, turned reality upside down, created a barrier between realities and more...all before the goddess amp. I don't really see any arguments against her healing anyone here. Not to mention, due to things previously discussed, I don't see any need to worry about Despero's monsters. Between Qubit's tech and T's goddess amped powers, they should be fine. That is, if Despero can even find them.

All that glitters isn't gold i'm afraid, as T can only turn Reality upside down for herself. In the scan you posted in your opening, everyone/everything else was upside down, meaning her allies wouldn't really benefit from such an attack; An Upside down Despero Against an Upside down Team A/Team B is literally the same thing as a Regular battle between Despero and Team A/Team B

I already clarified this scene for you in the Suicide Risk Team expansion bit. Turning reality upside down rid her of foes that were charging her. She wasn't trying to get rid of her aunt or anything else. Just the creatures. Anything that flies, should be okay. Anything that is more earthbound, will be kissing the atmosphere and the space beyond pretty quickly.

So yes, all that glitters is in fact gold in this case=)

Plus, Requiem states that she's immune to 'Your Mind control', Couldn't that point to the fact that Dr Maybe Telepathy maybe just isn't strong enough?. Though I could very well be wrong about this - which is fine as my argument doesn't hinge off this factor.

If Maybe wasn't strong enough...especially since he managed to do what he did with Minus-I while T and the rest were dropped and useless at that point...I don't know that much else needs to be said, especially since this was before the goddess was directly backing her. She shielded her mind from Maybe's power, and was stated to be immune to his power by someone who really isn't known for talking smack. Maybe was known for testing his power, and proved his ability against Minus-I...so I feel it all paints a nice and neat little picture. Still, this wasn't brought up as a primary means of defense, but was simply another layer on the big and beautiful cake I am baking here=)

Despero could just use Energy attacks or his physicals to take her down. Or his Reality warping.

Got to go with no, no and no here in response to all of that. As discussed, she can hide her guys and herself, physically and mentally. Her reality manipulation is amped by the goddess. I kind of feel the versatility of her power as shown, is a bit beyond what Despero has actually shown with the flame, even before her having the aid of the goddess. His energy attacks and physicals won't be able to reach her, and she has shown more than enough ability to handle his minor reality warping...plus again she has that nifty little goddess amp.

Alright, one tiny bit left to discuss, and we will close this monster of a post out=)

Updates to the Conclusions=)

To sum it up nicely, your plan is to use Team A to put down/distract Despero physically, to keep him away from the more fragile members of your team. Team B will be in the back protected by a forcefield - Manipulating Gravity, weather, Turning reality upside down, and then Protecting the entirety of Team A/Team B from Despero TP using Dr maybe, while Teleporting around, Healing the injured team members.

Well, there was a point I brought up in my initial post about plans in CaVs, in that they have to be ever-changing and fluid things. I can lay out initial thoughts and ideas, though you may have points that make some of those initial thoughts and ideas irrelevant, meaning they would not have happened and so on. Plus, I openly admitted to you, there is a lot that I was holding back. I have a limited number of showings to pull from, and while I could have laid all of this out in my opener, it would have left me little room for discourse in later posts. Now you as well held some back. You brought up powers and ideas that altered the course of the discussion, just like I have done here. There are newly added wrinkles to your plans, just as there are to mine.

Now the portion you discuss after what I just quoted, I won't rehash it here, since I basically covered everything in the above sections.

Though i do feel like you're saving feats, so ill follow suit and save all of Despero's Trinity feats for the last post. Lets wrap things up

As you can see, I was saving feats. And we will see if your "Trinity feats" turn the tides. That said, while I have laid out the bulk majority of what I needed to, I am still keeping a few key pieces of intel in reserve. So, in the end, will my team be enough to take down Despero? I'd like to say yes, at least based on what we have seen thus far. We will see if what you are holding back turns the tides, or if what I currently have plus the last bits of intel that I have withheld puts things solidly into my corner. I am having fun with this little discussion, and can't wait to see how this all turns out=)

So to tackle your summary...

Team A can do nothing to stop Despero sending out Reality warped creatures after them.

He has the power to create them, sure, but they can be mitigated by any number of ways. Requiem and T can easily handle them with their goddess amped power and they can't get through teleportation shielding.

You have no counter to Despero releasing a AOE Head popping attack - which would Oneshot everyone on Team B. With Dr maybe down, Despero puts the remaining fighters under his TP

Two members of my team are low on the durability scale. Just two in the end. He has to find them, make the power work through teleportation shielding, and still has the likes of T and Requiem on offense and defense to get through. Plus, Requiem has popped heads and even better than that, broken down foes on a molecular level...and he is again, amped by the goddess to planetary levels. Not much stopping him from doing such to Despero.

Despero is fast enough to keep with your team so far.

He isn't faster than the Plutonian/Max Damage combo, and having the speed to keep up with them is still debatable. Requiem, makes calculations and uses his powers at insane speeds as you have seen with the city busting attack he dealt with and with the reentry feat. The rest will have the benefit of T's invisibility stuff, teleportation shielding and so on. I think my team will be good with Despero's speeds, whatever they end up being=)

Dr maybe Telepathy isn't adequate to deal with Despero's. So far, his feats are simply better.

His feats aren't better, just different. I already got some admission from you on Maybe's ability to hang with Despero above. Now you have to consider Qubit's ability to amp powers. The last consideration, we will get to in the next post. All that said, if he can find a way to affect Minus-I, then Maybe will definitely be a force to be reckoned with here.

Dr maybe lacks combat feats. Plus, as soon as Dr maybe even tries to dampen Despero Telepathy, He's going to go after Dr maybe first.

His brain was fried by tech designed to face him while fighting the bad guys on the field of battle. Anyhow...Despero has to find him...Qubit can amp powers...he found a way to affect Minus-I...he has shown an insane amount of control over his own power and the functions of his brain...and he has another nifty trick up his sleeve...as you will see...

Despero can teleport his forces inside your force field.

With the guy that shutdown all teleportation in his own reality and the girl who shutdown teleportation between two realities on the playing field...plus the fact that their shielding is teleportation shielding to begin with...and even Requiem can create shielding versus teleporting attacks...your statement there is not likely to happen.

Alright, let's close this out...

In Closing:

In building this team, I had a lot to consider. I honestly didn't know the full brunt of Despero's power, and I am still not sure if you have shown the sum total of such as of yet. I had a vague idea that he had awesome telepathy, was a physical threat that could solo the league, and was going to have reality warping powers of some sort. So I had to put together a team that could match several theoretical aspects and power levels. I don't know if I went overboard, or if we still have plenty of room to debate with here. Guess we will find out...and I have just a scant few more things in reserve for the next post just to be safe.

Now, I am not going to try and lead you, so I won't say what exactly, but I do expect you to have one major question about some of the new stuff that I brought up. I promise that I have a reason and answer for everything that I have laid out, but it will have to wait until my next post. I think overall this debate is turning out nicely, and I cannot wait to see what else you have up your sleeve.

Alright bud, onto you=)

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#4 Posted by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio


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#5 Posted by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, thanks for the CAV mention again=)

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#6 Edited by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

Alrighty, another CaV about to start. Let's do this...in this corner, we have one of the top horror icons of all time, the Camp Crystal Lake slasher himself...

Jason Voorhees (defended by @geeman2)

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Composite Jason with all his undead and human feats (from Friday 2-Freddy VS Jason). Jason X feats allowed, no Uber Jason feats though. Standard gear.

He will be facing another top tier horror icon, El Jefe aka the Chosen One himself...

Ashley J Williams (defended by @wyldsong)

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Dynamite comics Ash with composite feats from the movies/TV show/SGC comics. Gear will be his medieval hand/gauntlet, chainsaw, boomstick/ammo, and the Kandarian dagger.


  • In character
  • Not so random encounter, they are hunting each other, though no prep
  • Standard elimination rules (win by any means necessary)


  • Main Camp Crystal Lake grounds is the battlefield
  • Jason starts at the counselor's cabin in the main camp
  • Ash starts at the pier by the camp
  • Camp setting is Jason vs Freddy era
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Challenge a Viner Rules:

  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)
  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.
  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.
  • As always, may the best debater win.

A little mood music courtesy of Ice Nine Kills and their Friday the 13th tribute...

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@geeman2: There it is my friend. Let me know if we need any changes. Feel free to start when ready, I will be a little delayed on my intro, but I am excited to do this=)

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#7 Posted by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

Looking good.

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#8 Posted by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

@geeman2: I think we can work something out. I will PM you shortly and we can iron out the details.

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#9 Edited by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, I am about to finish a CaV, and am working towards the end of another. What I am looking to do, is find someone that can debate with Jason Voorhees against me in a CaV. I will be using Ash from Evil Dead, composite, and barring Jason X (no "Uber Jason"), would want to probably face a composite Jason.

Any takers on this?

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#10 Posted by Wyldsong (9639 posts) - - Show Bio

On paper, Glads. Based on actual feats, team.