@mylittlefascist: I will try and look at this in a bit. Drop me a reminder in a day or so if I haven't responded.
Wyldsong's forum posts
@oceanmaster21: My friend, then let us go back to the drawing board, and we can find a more debatable scenario. I had thought maybe Sersi with a team might be enough here. Just let me know if you want to try something else.
@oceanmaster21: Sorry for the delay my friend, but here it is, my next entry into our little discussion. I once did a uncompleted CaV of Lady Death vs Sersi, so I have a little bit of knowledge on her. She alone is a tough battle for many foes, and you have assembled a worthwhile team to add to this. The question now becomes, who has more hax? Your assembled team, or my death goddess backed by her army of undead?
Let's put this question to the test, shall we?
So I have spent some time considering how to approach this, since I have four characters to respond to here. I think that basically, I am going to give a little expanded breakdown on Lady Death's abilities and powers, then I will go into the battle considerations versus your team members. Let's do this...
Against opponents such as what we have to face in this CaV with all of the hax powers that are going to come into play...I am not really sure just how much actual physical abilities are going to need to be discussed. In the end, the powers and their creativity in using these powers are what is probably going bring one side the win over the other. That said, I will lay out some expanded intel on her physical stats, and elaborate even more, if and when needed. Overall, old school Chaos Lady Death's stats are well into the superhuman arena. They would have to be to face the cosmic threats that she has faced and overcome. Starting with strength...
Lady Death has the strength levels to cross swords and wrestle with foes like Lucifer (who can toss people from the surface of a planet to roughly the moon) and Michael (who can punch through a planet and crush diamond's in his hands):
Obviously, those aren't the prolonged fights, and if requested, I can get you a bit more of those bouts, but that should give you a pretty good idea of her strength levels as shown against class 100 opponents. You will also see in a bit where she has manhandled the likes of even Vampirella, who is also a class 100 character. So overall, Lady Death plays in the class 100 arena of strength. She might be the strongest character on this battlefield, but considering we have a bunch of characters with hax powers, physical strength might not end up being all that important. We shall see...for now, let's talk a little about durability...
On the durability front, I would normally open with her walking off re-entry and a massive crater making impact, or maybe talk about the time the Chaos Lord, Genocide, created a giant replica of himself so large that he made castles and mountains look like pebbles and children's toys to his feet...after which he stepped on Lady Death, who didn't bother dodging and she remained unaffected. She then let out a blast of power that destroyed Genocide's giant stone form...but considering that it looks like the attacks will be mostly of the non-physical variety, I think I will tackle the durability stuff from another angle. So, once upon a time, Genocide got his hands on the Odin power, and was going to use it to destroy all of reality. He fired the power off, it missed the intended target, it hit a sun (and it kept going). The impact with the sun, merging with the Odin power, created a universal destroying fire.
It starts to hit the planet they are on, Lady Death's friends are worried about dying and burning up, but the Pale Lady herself, nonplussed, says the heat of this universal destroying fire reminds her of the darkest pits of Hell:
As you can see, the flames have started busting up the planet and she only leaves after she finishes off her foe as the universal fire is destroying the planet. Let's think about this, Lady Death states the heat from a universal destroying fire reminds her of places she has been to in Hell, and is nonplussed by it. Still, if that isn't enough, let's talk hellfire...
Hellfire in the Chaos U is of an insane heat, and it has the ability to destroy illusions, even those made by Chaos Lords. To give you an example of how bad arse hellfire is, I need to first talk about a battle between Apolyon and three powerful but evil angels, the Trinity of Evil. They had this battle in Hell and note that all angels have space level durability, and the upper echelon, like Michael, have sun level durability. The trinity and Apolyon, definitively being upper level angels, with Apolyon being a little above the trinity. The trinity opens a rift in Hell, calling forth planetoids, meteors, comets, and general celestial bodies from space to strike their foe. Apolyon pulls up a sphere/shield of sun level energy, and laughs off the attack. So the trinity takes on the mass of a star, and using their power, pulls down a planet to strike their foe. Apolyon, quickly and casually busts the planet, and all four remain unaffected by the explosion...the fiery looking sphere being Apolyon, and the bluish/purple energy being the trinity.
There are too many pages for me to post the whole battle, since the point of all of this is a two page spread, which shows us the power of hellfire. Cremator, who controls hellfire and can turn into hellfire, does so, and burns a member of the trinity to a skeleton.
By the way, the trinity all naturally have bloody looking faces, and this angel was knocked to the ground when the spear of Destiny, thrown by Cremator, busted up a gathering of their mystical energy. So his bloody look had nothing to do with the planet busting feat. They didn't budge when that happened. This is a being that took on the mass of a star, stood point blank for and remained unaffected by a planet busting explosion, but was burned to a skeleton by hellfire. You know what happens when Lady Death is tossed into hellfire? Let's take a look:
Some fizzling and popping noises, but she is unaffected by it. Being the Queen of Hell, and an Avatar of Death has its perks...and since we have at least one lightning user and another character that uses a form of electricity...let me point out that Lady Death can summon and channel lightning through her very body. So lightning and electricity, if they can even get through her shielding, are likely to do very little to her. Also, these same two characters seem to be able to freeze foes...I should point out, that Lady Death can handle the cold depths of space with ease, so extreme colds that would kill anyone else, does little to affect her. To add to this, there was the time Pestilence, one of the four horseman of the Apocalypse sent a swarm of supernatural locusts to deal with Lady Death. So she chilled her own body, turning the locusts into ice cubes:
And she kept on fighting without issue...
As for the speed angle...she has feats of moving FTE to blur speed demons, and catching them and their enhanced senses by surprise:
A weakened Lady Death, has reacted last second to a meteor in space (mach 30+), destroying it. Let's note, that on the previous page, she was seen floating in space without a meteor anywhere in sight.
Let's also talk a bit about Vampirella. Lady Death has faced Vee in the Harris comics era, and she was a speedy bad arse back then. In the Harris books, even the lowliest of the low vampire was FTE (humans were stated to basically be like statues in reference to their speed), and they all have enhanced senses. To say that Vampirella moved FTE to regular and master vampires, should speak volumes about her speed. Still, in the following scene, she was in an underground, military bunker (1 mile below the surface). Vamps had taken over the installation, and they had two human soldiers captive. Vampirella sets the nukes to go off in the installation, and with 30 seconds to go, she blitzes the master vampire, slicing his throat before he knew what happened. She then snags the two soldiers from their captors, tears a hole in a wall, speeds up an elevator shaft, and clears the base before the nukes go off, all before any of the vampires could do anything, or fully realize what was going on:
Vampirella is pretty darn fast. Most likely, she is faster than anyone on your team. One of the few characters that Vee hasn't managed to blitz into oblivion? Lady Death. Let's also note that Vampirella is a low level class 100...she couldn't break Lady Death's grip there.
And she has reacted to her speedster mount, Vassago, who can cross the entire, nearly endless surface of Hell in seconds to reach Lady Death. Finally, she has also reacted to a point blank blast of the Odin power, which was capable of travelling from roughly the equivalent of the Earth to our Sun in a matter of seconds. Her sister Vandala ends up with the Odin power, and tries to take Lady Death out with it at point blank ranges:
So speed...it really is hard to put a solid number on that. She has high level mach speed reactions, can move FTE, and can outreact other speedy FTE foes, like Vampirella.
I once talked with Pulido (Lady Death's creator), who stated he envisioned the old school Chaos Lady Death as being just slightly above Wonder Woman in overall physical stats (and believe it or not, Pulido is exceedingly knowledgeable on Marvel and DC, he is a true comic book fan). Now let's note, this is not a commentary on her overall power levels, just pure, physical stats, although, I won't debate off of that statement, I just found it interesting. That said, with her speed and reactionary ability, I think she will have no issues keeping up with and reacting to everyone here.
Onto the powers aka "The Hax" discussion...
I don't know if I have mentioned this before or not, but Lady Death has a ton of powers and abilities. I have already shown you her shielding, storm control, flight, energy arcane blasts, lightning summoning/channeling, creating and summoning undead, and so on. She can also do things like...
- Transmute foes (1, 2)
- Disperse storms
- Turn into a ghost, again, and again
- Flash freeze lakes
- Controls water
- Can weaponize even the ground
- Turn her body into pure light
- Fire off eye beams
- Can heal from deadly wounds (1, 2)
- Can turn normal castles into hungry monsters
- Melt people with a wave of her hand
- Burst your heart in your chest with a look
- Selectively kill the cells in you body that inhibits growth, blowing you up
- Perform telekinesis with her magic that can manhandle class 100 foes (1, 2)
- Can create portals to other dimensions
- Casually destroy foes with her energy arcane
- Summon and empower the spirits of the dead to destroy a foe
- Make you see your personal demons to torment you
- Pull a translocation trick (and use illusion magics), trading places with her foes (1, 2)
- More illusion magics (1, 2)
- Transmute a foe's magic armor (that made him seemingly invincible) into stone (1, 2)
And there is more that I could get into (a lot more), but I think that is enough to chew on for now. The other thing to consider is her army of undead...in the old school Chaos U, angels/demons were a foe that you did not face unless you were another demon, an angel, a Chaos Lord, or some other form of supernatural bad arse. Lady Death created and empowered her army to face such threats. Her undead are a bit more powerful than your Kirkman or Romero style zombies. For the best example of what her undead can do, you can check out one of her best documented undead creations, Evil Ernie. Although, her army of undead are lacking in the twisted little button, Smiley...so they don't have Ernie's level of regeneration and energy projection. Still, they are a physical threat on par with Ernie...your team would do well to not let them get into melee range...that said, you have enough large area attacks and effects with your team, so they probably won't be much of an issue. Just more of a distraction...
Anyhow, since we have a foe that sometimes transmutes her enemies...it is time to talk about one of Lady Death's more powerful villains...
She was Lucifer's first wife, and his rival in power for control over Hell. Being a bit too dangerous for her own good, Lucifer ends up locking her away, for what he though was all of eternity. She ends up being freed, and becomes a major thorn in Lady Death's side. In their earliest encounters, it was fairly obvious that she was Lady Death's superior, but after increases in her power levels, that changes. Anyhow, getting ahead of myself here. Leviatha has powers of "creation":
Which basically seems to involve transmutation among other things, and she is pretty much second to Lucifer in her overall power level. In fact, with a little help, she was able to resurrect Lucifer, who is a Chaos Lord with the ability to create his own dimension (the first time he created Hell, he wasn't aware that it was by his own power, but he later recreates a new hell dimension and brings Hell to Earth), can create and destroy life, and can craft curses that caused a temporal shift in reality, shaking reality, and caused all earthbound matter to be in eight places at once (1, 2).
Leviatha brought him back by separating his molecules from the Heaven's Gate, and piecing him back together. I can go back and give you the scans that directly state they had to reassemble his molecules and such if requested, but I think you get the general idea. She has the power to help resurrect a skyfather level being to full power. This was no small feat, and I don't think there is any questioning her pedigree. This woman has created living buildings (that Lady Death had to kill), and alters the environment on a whim. She is a bad arse, and the forces of Hell are scared to death of her. Lucifer locking her away speaks volumes about her power. In previous encounters, she was able to transmute Lady Death from a death goddess to a regular human. By simply touching the Eternal Scythe, it was able to revert her to her godly form and power.
On their final encounter though...Lady Death definitely showed an increase in her personal power levels. When Leviatha tried the same transmutation trick again, Lady Death resists the effect:
Then shows Leviatha why she earned the title, Queen of Hell, by transmuting Leviatha into a child and stripping her of her power, then taking her out permanently:
And since we are talking about resistance...let's look at a little mental resistance. Lucifer has tried to mentally control and dominate Lady Death on multiple occasions. Again, he can create life, create dimensions, craft curses that can cause reality quakes and more...this guy is a skyfather level being. He tried mentally dominating Lady Death, and tried to force her to do weird and creepy things for the amusement of him and his court. Through sheer force of will, she broke his control and began to wreck shop.
And with that out of the way...let's talk about Lady Death and dealing with your team a little more directly...
First, I am going to drop some considerations about your individual team members versus Lady Death, then I will talk a little about the team as a whole. I am not going to cover every power showing you laid out. I am just going to tackle what I feel is the more troublesome aspects of your team's powers and abilities.
While no weakling, I kind of view Aqualad as being the weaker of your team members. His powers will be enough to affect Lady Death's undead army, but I am not seeing much in his powerset that would cause her a whole lot of concern directly. Between her shielding and ghost form, plus her own water control, his water attacks should not cause her a whole lot of problems. Trying to freeze her in place...she hangs out comfortably in the colds of space, and froze her own body without issue. Plus she can pull a translocation trick, trading places with any member of your team or any of the undead. And again, there is her shielding and ghost form to deal with.
His electrical abilities...if she can channel lightning through her body without issue, then I see nothing for her to worry about with that ability. Plus again, she has her defensive measures with shielding and her ghost form. If her shielding can protect her from Lucifer's level of power, I am fairly confident that Aqualad's power isn't getting through. On the other hand, Lady Death can flash freeze Aqualad's best weapon, the water, and he doesn't seem to have any special defenses against her own myriad of abilities.
Bennett has a lot of unique abilities and powers...abilities and powers that Lady Death can pretty much replicate. Both can raise the dead, though Lady Death can create super powered zombies like Evil Ernie, who all by his lonesome would give Bennett problems in combat. Plus, if we remember Lady Death summoning her undead army from my first post...I am not quite sure Bennett has that many undead under his command. As for popping heads...Lady Death can burst hearts, melt people, and even be so specific as to just kill off the cells in a body that inhibit growth. Not to mention, I'd wager that she is far more durable and higher up on the scale of power than the creatures whose head's Bennett popped. I could also point out again about her shielding and ghost form. Plus an interesting tidbit...after Lucifer's death by being thrown into the Heaven's Gate by Lady Death, there was an eradication wave wiping out the entire dimension of hell, destroying anything and everything in Hell. This was a dimension busting effect, and the Eternal Scythe called up shielding, which protected Lady Death and her allies, and then it transported them all to safety (1, 2), though it sent Lady Death somewhere different than her allies.
As for his telekinesis...we have the argument of her previously laid out defenses, and I have to wonder if his TK is powerful enough to handle someone with Lady Death's physicals. Plus, she has her own TK, which can manhandle class 100s, like Purgatori. As for his durability against Apollo's energy and shielding versus the napalm bombardment, those are both good feats. I would have to question how well they would stand up against Lady Death's energy arcane. Once upon a time, she faced Genocide, a Chaos Lord who merged with a planet. She defeated this skyfather level foe by blasting her energy arcane into the planet, killing the planet sized foes heart. Now I am doubtful Apollo's energies have proven to be able to do such a thing, and that napalm blast wouldn't have been felt by Genocide. If you can manage to prove he can stand up to such, then I have more options to bring up...we shall see what you got on this front.
As for the rest, if this were a one on one battle, I just don't see Bennett as being able to take out Lady Death. She has faced similar foes that were far more powerful, and managed to come out on top.
As for Storm...she is indeed a heavy hitter, with an impressive resume'. The thing is, her best and most powerful weapon, her lightning, is something that will not affect Lady Death. Lady Death has summoned and channeled lightning through her body and redirected it to attack multiple foes. Then again there is also her shielding, ghost form and so on. While Storm is more powerful than Aqualad, overall, what I listed in defense against him, applies here as well. Storm's powers will more than aid against Lady Death's undead minions, but I am not sure that she has what it takes to get around the death goddess' personal defenses. Meanwhile, Lady Death can look at her and burst her heart, melt her, so forth and so on.
Plus Lady Death has her own storm control abilities as well, even creating storms in Hell and dispersing storms with her energy arcane...
This by far, is your heaviest hitter. That said, while she won't go down easy, I believe Lady Death can and will take the Eternal down. For starters, Lady Death has resisted transmutation from the likes of Leviatha, and the Eternal Scythe can also reverse transmutation. As for things like disintegrating the air...Lady Death is well...undead. She doesn't breath, so we are good there. The stone hand and plastic bit...Lady Death has destroyed the stone body that Genocide created from the planet he merged with, a body that towered over mountains and cities, and that stepped on her, with a single blast of her power. Not to mention her ghost form, shielding and so on. Plus, considering her translocation powers, it would be next to impossible to actually incapacitate her.
Now Sersi's shielding from air, I would need to see how powerful that is before I can comment. As for her monsters, I would need to see just how powerful they actually are to really discuss them...they might be handy in fending off Lady Death's army, or they might just be fodder to be slaughtered. Just bear in mind, Lady Death can also weaponize the buildings and environment, which I have shown.
Against her TK, basically see my answers for Bennett's TK...the energy projection, I have to bring up her defenses, which includes shielding that can stand up to Lucifer's level of power. The teleportation of others bit could be seen to be troublesome, but that looks to be a kind of ray attack, so again, Lady Death's shielding comes into play, plus Lady Death can teleport wherever she needs via her portals, and has translocation powers. That means BFR is off the table to defeat Lady Death.
Now, what most would see as her best chance at taking out Lady Death, would be Sersi's telepathy. Yet as I have shown...she has resisted control from a skyfather level being. One with the power to cause reality to quake, create actual life, and create his own dimensions. Lucifer is a being with quite a bit more power than Sersi, so I have a hard time envisioning her telepathy managing much against Lady Death's insurmountable and indomitable will.
Durability wise, I need to see a bit more, but if Lady Death's energy arcane can take down a skyfather level being that merged with a planet...can Sersi stand up to that kind of power? There is a rumored feat of Sersi's I have not seen with my own eyes...but if it is true, then she just might be the most durable character in play here. If so...we will discuss the other options Lady Death has to take down Sersi...but we shall what you have and if I need to discuss the other options. For now, based on what has been presented so far, I am not seeing much preventing Lady Death from taking Sersi down with any of the number of ways that I have presented.
vs the Whole Team
Now, overall, I was just spitballing some ideas of Lady Death versus each member of your team one on one. As you can see, Lady Death has a lot of hax, and can replicate a lot of what your individual team members can accomplish, plus has defensive measures for a lot of powers and abilities. The thing is, she is facing them as a team, so depending on your plans and other feats and abilities that you are holding back on...this battle may not go exactly like I envision.
Basically what we are looking at right now, Lady Death is flying over the city, uses her sword Apocalypse to cut a hole in space and time, opening a rift to her realm of Limbo, and summoning forth her nearly endless army of superpowered undead minions. She sees your team, feels a telepathic probe, sees Storm and Aqualad summoning up their respective elements, plus Sersi and Bennett summoning up their minions. Lady Death won't exactly be hiding, so she will be easy to find. Alright, let's get this party rolling, and throw out an opening gambit. Her undead hordes are on the march towards your team, and seeing a gathering of power, Lady Death summons up her defenses, then let's loose a blast of power to scatter and/or decimate her foes:
That is not a bolt or blast firing from her hand. That is Lady Death holding up a glowing hand, and a crater making blast suddenly appears, utterly destroying her foes in the area. After that, she will swoop on in and take out whoever is left with her other hax powers. Pretty nasty way to open up the fight, but Lady Death isn't known for holding back, and will often take down her foes in an exceedingly brutal and bloody fashion...
Sorry for the delay, but I wanted to work on this when I could give it my full attention. This post should give you plenty to work with, and should give you a really good look at what Lady Death is truly capable of. I still have a few things in reserve to discuss in the next post, since as you can see, I didn't talk much about her sword nor scythe, plus there are a few more things to bring up in regards to her powers=)
Now let's see if your team has what it takes to bring down the diva of death...and of course, I will close out with the obligatory Lady Death cosplay hawtness...
Onto you bud=)