Coming Soon: Lady Death Damnation Game!!!

Well my friends, I am doing my part to spread the word on Lady Death, and the man himself, Brian Pulido, has shared some promotional materials with me for the next entry in the Lady Death saga, Damnation Game #1:

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Here is the official press release:

LADY DEATH: DAMNATION GAME #1 IS GONNA RAISE HELL!

All new original graphic novel – creator Pulido’s newest chapter!

SCOTTSDALE, AZ (July 15, 2015) – Hot on the heels of the monumental success of Lady Death: Chaos Rules #1, Coffin Comics announced today that an all new Lady Death story entitled Damnation Game #1 will ship in October 2015. An exclusive Kickstarter campaign for this project will be launched on August 5th, 2015 7PM MT and run for thirty days.

Lady Death: Damnation Game #1, published by Coffin Comics is a 48-page square bound original graphic novel co-written by Brian Pulido and Mike Maclean. It features the returning art team of Dheeraj Verma (pencils) and color art by Sabine Rich (Ancient Dreams). Cover artists include Mike Debalfo, Richard Ortiz, Paolo Pantalena, Sabine Rich and others to be announced!

Set in the present, Lady Death rescues an innocent boy dragged to Hell against his will and incites a violent quest into the depths of Damnation, a depraved city hosting a contraption that can return the boy “topside”. Lady Death’s actions bring her into direct conflict with the nefarious Hellwitch. Who will live? Who will die?

“If you want unapologetic, heavy metal inspired comics that kick your ass, I cordially invite you to get Damnation Game,” says Lady Death creator Brian Pulido. “With her return to Hell, Lady Death is public enemy number one, and you know what? She wouldn’t have it any other way. Let the mayhem begin!”

Experience the next chapter in Lady Death’s undead life! Stay tuned for more preview art, interviews with the creative team, Kickstarter reward announcements and much, much more!

Lady Death was created by Brian Pulido and debuted in Evil Ernie #1 in 1991. The first Lady Death solo series debuted in 1994. Since then, Lady Death has appeared in over 100 comics in eight languages, selling over 20 million copies worldwide.

Coffin Comics is the new permanent home of Lady Death.

For more information, please visit www.LadyDeathUniverse.com.

Contact: TalesTold@cox.net

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1 Comments

The Debater's Hall of Fame

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So far, this list has only been tracked by the various posts it has been in, and really has had no home. So this is my attempt to correct that. I will keep up with this for as long as I am able, and I will add links to various debates when and where I can, so we can all see just why these individuals were voted into the hall by members of the community.

Current Hall of Fame Members

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 1

the_creator

Static_Shock

Gambler/Jean_Luc_LeBeau

Buckshot

Vance_Astro

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 2

Morpheus_

k4tzm4n

Zoom

AtPhantom

Ferro_Vida

Dane

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 3

Erik

Silver2467

Power_NeXus

King_Saturn

geraldthesloth

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 4

JediXMan

spidey_15

Lance_Uppercut

Final_Arrow

Matezoide

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 5

vuviper

Lunacyde

god_spawn

Strafe_Prower

CosmicSpiral

MrDirector786

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 6

CitizenBane

beatboks1

Floopay

Super_SoliderXII

Texasdeathmatch

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 7

jashro44

Killemall

Cadencev2/Pokergeist

Strider92

YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 8

Lvenger

Wyldsong

ComicStooge

Forever

dredeuced

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round 9

frozen

Wolverine08

TheTrueBarryAllen

laflux

i_like_swords

dondave

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round X (10)

GhostRavage

cosmicallyaware1

Veshark

HigorM

dccomicsrule2011

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round XI

Juiceboks

Highaccuser

ShootingNova

Nickzambuto

Debating Chris Redfield vs X-23. This thread was actually locked by moderators as a mismatch very shortly after being created, so I actually PMed the moderator and convinced her why I think Chris would actually be able to stand up to X-23 and defeat her. I spent a few pages discussing with multiple users, the unique advantages that Chris had over X-23 and providing several possible methods for him to defeat her. In the end I had several users including i_like_swords (silly name; great debater) on my side saying Chris indeed could win. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/chris-redfield-vs-x-23-1619777/

CaV against jashro44. I had challenged him to defend Cassandra Cain against Chris Redfield, and I think I did well and formulated some effective strategies. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/challenge-a-viner-jashro44-vs-nickzambuto-1629953/

Huge debate against SirFizzWhizz and tparks discussing the three most dangerous cowboys in fiction; Revolver Ocelot, Roland Deschain, and Jonah Hex. I think I proved pretty firmly that Ocelot was the fastest and most skilled among them.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/gunslinger-free-for-all-1718669/

Another Chris Redfield debate, against SirFizzWhizz using Ultimate Captain America. I showcased how Chris is a lot more powerful than most people think and can definitely hang with the super soldier class.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-chris-redfield-nick-vs-ultimate-captain-americ-1698192/

A smaller discussion with AllStarSuperman, relating Big Boss's abilities and experience to Winter Soldier and explaining why Big Boss's are superior. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/new-big-boss-vs-winter-soldier-658374/

Debate with tparks trying to prove why Roronoa Zoro should be able to cut Senator Armstrong.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-roronoa-zoro-vs-senator-armstrong-1569848/?page=1

Follow up to my previous debate with tparks, now doing Luffy vs Raiden. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-raiden-vs-luffy-1594348/

Huge debate with kingstranglehold, Goku vs The Sentry. This was very shortly after Battle of Gods had been released in Japan.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-the-sentry-vs-goku-voting-open-1523772/

A pretty big debate involving me going against a bunch of viners, trying to prove why Solid Snake should be able to defeat Iron Fist.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/solid-snake-vs-iron-fist-1683849/?page=1

Small debate with Wolverine08, Solid Snake vs Daredevil http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-solid-snake-vs-daredevil-1525441/

I convinced highaccuser that Solid Snake can beat Bullseye. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-bullseye-highaccuser-vs-solid-snake-nickzambut-1558917/

Debating Leon Kennedy against Nightwing. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/leon-s-kennedy-vs-nightwing-1595209/?page=1/

Leon S. Kennedy vs Green Arrow http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-leon-scott-kennedy-vs-green-arrow-1574273/?page=1

SlimJ87D

Lukehero

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round XII

Theacidskull

Princearagorn1

Bringnit

Esquire

Sovereign91001

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round XIII

emperorthanos

tparks

newworldorder/heirtothekingdom

krleavenger

CaVs/Tourney Matches

List of characters I can use in a CaV.

Regular Battle Forum Debates

All my other CaVs/Tourney Matches and Regular Battle Forum Debates that are not worth the HOF can be found here.

Respect Threads

Other contributions

  • I'm in charge of The Daily Debater's Battle Threads of the week section. I'm posting them every week for others to check out.
  • I wrote a Blog about what people should be aware of if they want to join a tourney, giving them some info and tips.

elijah_c_washington

Deathstroke Vs Taskmaster - Really nailed showing off how durable Deathstroke is, as well as neatly emphasized the underlying discrepancy between his Pre-Flashpoint and Post-Flashpoint selves' healing factor.

Where did the Myth that Deathstroke Beats Batman Come From? - Pretty solidly proved it was no myth, and considering how popular and even iconic that match up is, I think it's pretty noteworthy accomplishment. Of course, @batmanplusjay never actually conceded, but only one of us received praise from new users and a veteran moderator alike, and it was me.

CaV: Luther Strode Vs Deathstroke the Terminator - My first finished CaV, and my only official loss. But hey, I think @pr0metheus and I had a lot of fun with it and that I proved I rate among him. I say this specifically because, well, he's already a nominee and I'm not. More to the point, however, it was an admittedly hard pressed victory on Pr0's end, and I think I'm ready for a rematch.

CaV: X-23 Vs Deathstroke [Round 2 Post] - A recent debate with @watcher5000. Due to IRL reasons, my firsts two posts were rushed, but I feel I my third one was nothing shy of exquisite, wonderful, and even magic. This is evident not only within the post itself, but by the fact that Watcher has unofficially and unexpectedly called it off... *No disrespect*

Vs Samurai Jack

is he a bullet-timer

Vs RWBY

Batman Vs Deadpool

rogueshadow

*****Debates needed****

Debaters Hall of Fame - Round XIV

brucerogers

chimeroid

1. Aquaman vs Thor (Lvenger) - Will probably remain my hardest fought debate against one of the best debaters on the Vine and my favorite victory.

2. Shiva vs Daken (TheNaughtyTitan). Not my best debate ever, but the first CaV i ever had. I lost, of course, but it got me hooked. Fun fact, i didn't know what a tourney was, i just thought it was a thread where @sirfizzwhizz was making a battle royal asking for character recommendations (i was really new). And i thought Shiva would be fun. The next thing i know, i am expected to debate against someone.

3. The Legendary CaV - Juggling all of these replies and strategies was challenging and rewarding

4. High Tier PYP Finals VS Beatboks1 - A really fun match where both of us went with "cheap" teams and a lot of creativity.

5. Against ssj_god - Another debate i enjoyed having.

Bonus - Shiva vs Ninjak - The only reason i didn't put it in top 5 debates was that ET decided to bow out.

Mr_Ingenuity

Owie

Winter Soldier vs Moon Knight

Iron Fist and Shang-Chi vs Spider-man and Daredevil

Moon Knight vs Black Widow

Spider-man vs Cyclops

Other Stuff:

Sloth's Tournament: Owie vs Dane (My first foray into anything like this, where I quickly realized I was over my head, but it was also formative and it forced me to learn about some of my now-favorite characters)

CaV: Power Pack (Owie) vs The Wizard (majinblackheart)

CaV: Shaolin Cowboy (Owie) vs Kraven (King_Hellstorm)

Elektra vs Nightwing and Red Hood (focusing on the part between me and TheOneWhoKnows)

Doc Samson and Colossus vs The Thing and Sasquatch (an early competitive debate, with SFW)

Grendel vs Shadow (I like this because of the respectful, here-to-learn tone of the conversation between me and SFW)

Thedailybagel

Zetsumoto

2017 high tier pyp including finals:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/2017-high-tier-pyp-tourney-finals-zetsumoto-vs-chi-1887812/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/2017-high-tier-pyp-tourney-rd3-thor-parker-vs-zets-1872664/

Mid Tier Duo Tourney Including Finals:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/duo-mid-finals-mr-ingenuity-vs-zetsumoto-voting-op-1883252/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/duo-mid-r2-zetsumoto-vs-deathhero61-need-votes-1869332/

2016 High Tier PYP (I'd Include Finals, but my opponent dropped):

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/high-tier-pyp-2nd-editionrd3-chimeroid-vs-zetsumot-1806762/

Halloween PYP Including Finals:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/halloween-pyp-semi-finals-juiceboks-vs-zetsumoto-v-1833048/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/halloween-pyp-finals-fitnesstribe-vs-zetsumoto-zet-1840076/

Halloween 2.0 PYP (I'd include finals, but my opponent dropped:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/halloween-pyp-20-semi-finals-zetsumoto-vs-knowledg-1842709/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/halloween-pyp-20-zetsumoto-vs-revan2424-voting-ope-1838480/

Non Tourney CaVs:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-marvel-dracula-sirfizzwhizz-vs-composite-vergi-1908619/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-loki-laufeyson-zetsumoto-vs-martian-manhunter-1874083/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/skyfather-duo-cav-laharl-and-dormammu-vs-galan-and-1923035/

2017 Halloween PYP (Finals ongoing):

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/halloween-pyp-30-r1-zetsumoto-vs-revan2424-1898616/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/halloween-pyp-30-finals-zetsumoto-vs-kingcrimson-1911435/?page=1

Solid Posts from Unfinished CaVs:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/2018-high-tier-pyp-1st-edition-rd1-zetsumoto-vs-ba-1926329/?page=1#js-message-19887974

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/double-team-tourney-zetsumotojucaslucas-vs-supreme-1915668/?page=1#js-message-19612570

Notable Scenario CaVS:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/ccc-scenario-caravan-free-for-all-open-for-votes-1847970/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/gaslight-empire-debate-thread-zets-v-assassins-ope-1877097/

I am going to do some research and try and find some examples of debates for each of the members listed, which may take some time. If you see your name on this list, please feel free to drop a post with links to a few of your favorite debates that I can add to this post.

Also, to check out names of nominees from past Hall of Fame rounds: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/debaters-hall-of-fame-nominees-of-years-past-1746318/

Many of the links from rounds 1-6 were copied from @strafe_prower's original thread. I will go through and check the links later to fix them, but I will drop this note from @beatboks1 on the subject:

OK copied this from Strafe's thread. Just to be clear, since many of the links for the early round inductees are from CV before it was CV 2.0 the links no longer go to the right pages of the threads. in CV 1.0 the length of a page was only about 20 something posts. So for example when the Zoom/KingSaturn/Me link says page 3 is now all starts on page 2

416 Comments

List of characters to CaV with...

This list will be updated, but for now, these are the characters that I could CaV with right now, without having to work on digging up too many feats. Basically, I am going to try and organize this list on how I see things with various character power levels.

  • Street - This basically ranges from the likes of Ash Williams of the Evil Dead series to upwards of Spider-Man. Low, mid, and high rankings here, with the likes of Ash being on the low end, and Spider-Man (prior to his current tech) on the high end.
  • Mid - Characters that break the bounds of high street levels, up to low level class 100s, and characters with enough hax to destroy most street levelers. Again, there are low, mid and high ranks here. Pretty much anyone from Spider-Man with the Parker Industries tech to the OG Wildstorm Midnighter on the lower ends, all the way to building to mountain level characters for the mid to high ends (Iron Man, Thing, Namor, etc.).
  • High - These are characters that are at just below city levels, and max out at somewhere just below continent levels, or have enough hax to destroy most mid tiers. And again, low, mid and high ranks. A few versions of the Hulk belong here, along with characters like Jack Hawksmoor (solid city level) all the way to the Angelus, who could bust an island with her power. Maybe some characters like Storm, Iceman, or Sue Richards with their powers and hax could fall into this range as well.
  • Herald/Cosmic - And this is where we start getting into characters that are in the range of Sersi, Thor, Spawn, Superman, Silver Surfer, Dr. Solar, some versions of the Hulk and so on. Some continent to upwards of planetary levels, or characters that again, have enough hax to destroy most high tier characters. Sounding like a broken record, but there is the low, mid, and high aspects of this rank, as all the other ranks.
  • Skyfather - Zeus, Odin, and so on. Characters that break the bounds of planetary beings in most cases, and can create their own dimensions and so on in the higher tiers of this range...or, as I have said before, characters with enough hax that they can destroy most characters in the herald range. And again, there are what I would consider low, mid and high aspects to this. This rank would be below multiversal, and I am not dropping anything about that particular category, since I really do not desire to argue any higher than this rank=)

So, while there are characters that fall above, between, and below these ranges, I will do my best to order my list along these lines. This is pretty close from the highest to the lowest levels.

Lady Death

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Depending on gear and version, she could be argued from high herald to possibly low skyfather.

Fantomah

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Low to mid tier herald, and she is the one with the skull face.

Supreme

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Depending on the version, he could be argued from a mid high tier, to upwards of a low skyfather (just shy of Silver Age Superman). As of the latest version, he would be around the mid to high herald range.

Solar, Man of the Atom

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Ranges from mid tier herald to high tier herald, depending on the version.

The Darkness

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While Jackie has the ability to fight and beat some heralds...overall, I would place him in the upper high tiers.

Aspen Matthews

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She definitely qualifies for city level ranges with her hydrokinesis, plus has some energy manipulation abilities as well. Upper high tier.

Janey Belle

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Janey's physical stats are in the mid to upper street levels, but she has some abilities that would decimate characters of upwards to the high tier. She falls somewhere between the mid and high tiers overall.

The Tick

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Arguing a composite version of this character, he would fall somewhere in the high tier. Nigh invulnerable with superstrength, and the power of "drama".

Pitt

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This brute falls somewhere between the upper mid to lower high tiers, depending on how you rate Green Hulk circa 1996...

The Witchblade

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Overall, a solid upper mid tier, with recorded city busting power output...just with no actual city busting feats. Still, she can solidly one shot multiple naval destroyers (one at a time and back to back), and has several abilities thanks to the Witchblade.

Evil Ernie

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Between the mid to upper mid tier, with awesome regen, the ability to go hand to hand with brick characters, and arcane energy blasting capabilities.

Savage Dragon

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Dragon is a mid tier, low to mid level class 100, right around Thing's level, with a striking force that is well above his strength levels.

Malcolm Dragon

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Basically the same as Savage Dragon, with touch range electricity powers and a lesser striking force than his dad. Solidly in the mid tier.

Vampirella

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She is a lower level class 100 than the Dragon's, but she makes up for it with far better speed (consistent FTE), and some hax abilities. Fairly solid mid tier, that could possibly be argued a bit higher depending on equipment.

Agent Rayne

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She is right around the 8-10 ton range, with a ton of abilities based on the version. I would place between upper street or lower mid tier based on the version.

Aphrodite IX

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Generally, she is an upper tier street level, but can be argued in the mid to high tiers depending on her equipment.

Iron Fist

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Upper street level with class 100 striking capability...

Luther Strode

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Definitely fits in the upper street level ranges.

Spider-Girl (May)

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Qualifies as somewhere between mid to upper street. All of the abilities of a spider character, with a better spider-sense than most.

Red Sonja

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She actually has quality feats against actual, known name superhumans, with superhuman stats herself. She should fall between the mid to high street tiers, with the potential to be debated higher depending on her equipment.

Forever

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Between mid to high street, mainly due to her durability and regen. She is pretty tough to put down, although her speed feats are somewhat lackluster. Skilled with firearms and a blade, and has armor that can increase her stats.

Iris

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Street level assassin, skilled in martial arts, firearms, poisons and so on. Peak human in physicals, and has some decent bullet dodging ability.

Addison Brody

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This creepy little girl has a limited run, but should fall in the low to mid street range. Think of her like Voorhees or Myers, with some extra abilities.

Cassie Hack

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Overall, Cassie would classify as a low street leveler. Basically, she is the slasher of slashers (like Voorhees, Myers, etc). Peak human physicals.

31 Comments

My Debate link list...

Just links to some of my debates (not all) and all of my CaVs (finished and unfinished) to help keep track of them. List will be updated later as I find more stuff to add or enter into more CaVs:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-janey-belle-wyld-vs-the-elric-brothers-cdiddy-1936163/#22

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/hall-of-fame-street-tier-tournament-round-1-wyldso-1934476/?page=1

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-purgatori-wyld-vs-klrt-the-super-skrull-cosmic-1927794/?page=1

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-angela-sirfizzwhizz-vs-witchblade-wyldsong-1909651/#5

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-iris-wyld-vs-the-mountain-trv-1908662/#14

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/halloween-cav-sirfizzwhizz-wyldsong-vs-zetsumuto-m-1900836/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-wylds-aphrodite-ix-vs-elijahs-deathstroke-reva-1869828/

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/challenge-a-viner-wyldsong-vs-giliad-1835139/?page=1

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-human-torch-warlock-mage-vs-aspen-matthews-wyl-1834696/#14

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/overwatch-cav-wyldsong-vs-giliad-1799646/#14

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/sandd-cav-aphrodite-ix-wyldsong-vs-cable-ghostrava-1792380/?messageId=16803438

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-wyldsong-supreme-vs-the-seeffiss17-sbprime-1774847/

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-aphrodite-ix-wyld-vs-deathstroke-elijah-1768876/#23

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-dr-solar-cosmic-vs-lady-death-wyldsong-1763633/#1

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-thing-juiceboks-vs-savage-dragon-wyldsong-1753053/#1

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/hunger-games-cav-nima-vs-wyld-1721592/#10

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-darkness-vs-swamp-thing-1670806/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/tag-team-cav-wyldsong-and-trv-vs-tnbb-and-speedste-1673822/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-evil-ernie-wyldsong-vs-wolf-man-sfw-1675284/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-savage-dragon-wyldsong-vs-she-hulk-cosmicallya-1652072/?messageId=14196217#js-message-15

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-3-vs-3-mm21-nmt-ttba-vs-wyldsong-serrure-ca1-1622832/?messageId=13378438#js-message-1

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-black-panther-jashro44-vs-rayne-wyldsong-1598189/#1

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-gojira2014-xena-vs-wyldsong-red-sonja-1582523/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-grey-hulk-cosmic-vs-pitt-wyldsong-1577621/#2

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-iron-fist-vs-wolverine-1562969/#0

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/team-cav-capture-the-flag-1561582/?page=1#2/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/wyldsong-vs-cosmically-alt-comic-tourney-1555417/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/wyldsong-vs-cjdavis103-mikep12-he-tourney-1550197/#38

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/pyp-ht-wyldsong-vs-cadencev2-1543551/#15

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-ms-marvel-vs-aspen-matthews-1541795/#5

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-negi-kurohime-vs-monica-sara-1539953/#2

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-aphrodite-ix-vs-azrael-voting-done-1533306/#79

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-the-darkness-vs-the-prototypes-voting-open-1534390/#44

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/battle-of-the-week-results-durge-vs-iron-fist-1757189/#5

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/spider-man-battle-of-the-week-results-scarlet-spid-1563741/#4

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/comic-vine-battle-of-the-week-results-zombie-apoca/1100-147395/

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/comic-vine-battle-of-the-week-results-cardiac-vs-h/1100-147112/

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Dr. Manhattan - The truth behind the feats - aka: Why so blue?

Alrighty gang, after several heated discussions over the actual power level of Dr. Manhattan, I went through all of the Watchmen books with the intent of pulling every use of power Dr. Manhattan shows, complete with page numbers and all. Now, while I have done that for the most part, I began to skip a few things here and there in relation to repeats of feats (well, a few anyways).

Here are the blanket rules for this discussion for anyone wanting to get involved: If I missed something, give me the book number and page number you are drawing your intel from. None of this – “Well, I thought this happened…” or “I remember something like…” or anything pulled from any of the wikis at all, which for the most part add a lot of speculation and not enough fact. We are dealing with cold, hard facts here. Not the ands, ifs and buts.

Also, I may have included one or two things where a random source in the comic itself states he can do something – but I also try to balance that out with what is actually seen. So, let us not get off into, “Well such and such says he has control of all of this”, when it is not actually seen. People in general say they or others can do a lot of things, but the reality is often quite different than what is said and what they want us to believe.

Dr. Manhattan Feats:

Watchmen #1:

Pg 20: Size alteration

Pg 21: Some super strength, lifting what looks to be a heavy piece of equipment

Pg 22: Teleportation of another

Watchmen #2:

Pg 15: Talks of ’s Matter Manipulation and Teleportation abilities

Watchmen #3:

Pg 4: Ability to create duplicates of himself (no more than 2 of Manhattan seen at one time) and to project some electricity from his hands

Pg 5: Ability to phase

Pg 9: Telekinesis

Pg 16: Teleporting a room full of people, then teleporting self

Pg 19: Teleporting self

Pg 21: Teleported to Mars

Pg 26: Survival in Mars’ Atmosphere

Watchmen #4:

Pg 5: Flash/awareness of the future while in the past – seems to be viewing events possibly simultaneously throughout segments of his life for the majority of the issue

Pg 6: Has his intrinsic field removed, and is seemingly vaporized or disintegrated – specifics aren’t discussed as to what actually happens – the intrinsic field is described as some theoretical field that holds things together – but over the next couple of pages, Manhattan pieces himself together, often slipping in and out of view – by pg 10, Blue boy is reformed in all his…uh…glory…

Pg 10: It is stated he can control atomic structure itself – you only see him dismantle a rifle without his hands as this is stated, and blasting/melting the top of a tank

Pg 14: He makes some guys head explode

Pg 16: Shows knowledge of future events, and states inability to affect it

Pg 17: Hinted that he does not age, or ages much, much slower than humans

Pg 20: Size manipulation of self

Pg 22: Teleports a bunch of angry protesters presumably back to their homes

Pg 26: Floats a few feet off of the ground and forms a crystalline structure on Mars

Watchmen #8:

Pg 23: a little more on how he views the time stream, and teleporting himself and Laurie to Mars

Watchmen #9:

Pg 3: Able to create some sort of enviro field around Laurie allowing her to survive on Mars

Pg 5: More on his perception of time and how everything he sees is preordained

Pg 6: Creates a table and chairs out of the crystalline structure

Pg 9: Makes his structure on Mars fly

Pg 10: Creates water in bottle

Pg 17: States he reads atoms, also states there is some trouble seeing to a point in his future, possibly due to a static from maybe an electromagnetic pulse

Watchmen #12:

Pg 7: Can see or sense tachyons – the “static” makes tracking them difficult – and more teleportation

Pg 12: More talk on his time stream view

Pg 14: Has intrinsic field removed…again…Veidt wasn’t even sure it would work

Pg 17: Size manipulation – and sudden reappearance

Pg 18: Talks about restructuring himself from intrinsic field removal being the first thing he has learned…talks about being able to walk on the sun, etc.

Pg 24: Vaporizes Rorschach

Pg 26: Walks up a wall and through a ceiling

The thing about intrinsic fields...

Let’s talk about this intrinsic field thing, since there is a lot of speculation on his being able to control his own atoms or even reverse entropy (though it is only stated that he has “restructured” himself)…

So, what is an intrinsic field you might ask? It is never fully explained in the comics how and why it does what it does, and it never truly explains the disintegration/vaporizing effect, other than the idea that an intrinsic field holds stuff together.

So, from the science consultant on the Watchmen movie (the guy who wrote “The Physics of Superheroes”, and is heavily into physics and nanotechnology), are his thoughts on the made up concept of intrinsic fields (I know this is more in relation to the movie than the comic, but it is the closest thing to an explanation on intrinsic fields as they are used in the Watchmen universe):

“In a previous accident, the character had destroyed his "intrinsic field" (a made-up concept), which presumably stripped him of the fundamental forces—electromagnetic, strong force, weak force—other than gravity, that hold material together.”

Possible Power Limits:

In Watchmen #4, in the Dr. Manhattan: Super-Powers and the Superpowers section, it is noted that "in well supported theoretical terms", that Manhattan could destroy "large areas" of soviet territory instantly (no notes to quantify "large"), and that he could deflect or disarm at least 60% of incoming missiles from Soviet bases in the USSR and Europe before reaching their intended targets, if they were to launch a full scale nuclear assault.

BEFORE WATCHMEN MANHATTAN:

Sooo...I have been on the forums and threads and have seen a ton of misinformation on Manhattan from people who have read these books. There is honestly very little that changes his overall power level in these books, except for discussions about one ability, and this time I am going into scans to show the scope of what happens.

Could Manhattan change time if he wanted to? Well, here is the answer:

No Caption Provided

He changed an event, which fractured the quantum reality, and in each new timeline/reality, other choices were made which further fractured those timelines/realities creating further timelines/realities, so forth and so on. As shown in the book, in one reality he went with Silk and in another he still went with Rorschach -- a fractured quantum reality wherein he is the quantum observer. Each reality is equally real and valid.

He doesn't just observe and decide what happens. He can travel to points in his own timeline and like a time traveler, can change events, but as is shown in the story, when he does so, he messes things up royally:

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That should give an idea of the scope of what he did, each and every choice he could and will make causes a fracture, and each and every reality ends up like the below:

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You see, according to his words: "I know that I can ride the timeline back and forth between the future and the moment of my creation..."

He is in effect a time traveler along his own timeline and has shown the ability to change things and impose his will on them, which has shown the effect of fracturing quantum reality. It's the whole basis of the story, hence the planet blowing up at the end of issue number 2 and him going to fix things, the main true blue (har har) Manhattan lost control of things. He changed an event in the past and due to his unique position in the timestream fractured the quantum reality (an unexpected event since he thought he would change one tiny slip of paper and the timeline would move on from there changed) -- which obviously he had no control over once it started happening hence the end of the world scenario and his need to go and fix things.

When he states he is a slave to predetermination, there is a good reason for it as you can plainly see. In fixing these timelines, one thing that needs to be clarified, Manhattan doesn't just erase the offending timeline with a wave of his hand, a blink of the eye, or a simple thought like some multiversal being (which he is not)...he has to travel the timelines, and fix every errant choice he made to get the timeline back on track. So like Marty McFly and the Doc rolling around in the Delorian trying to fix choices and events in a past they changed, Manhattan had to travel the timelines changing each choice he made, though he had a few more to fix and just had to inhabit his own body at the time of the choice=)

But it doesn't stop there. I have always theorized that Manhattan lost this time travel aspect after the tachyon incident with Ozy. Here we have some proof:

No Caption Provided

He cannot wait to see what this new box reveals? If he still maintained the ability, shouldn't he already know? Based on Manhattan's thoughts in the scan, he says he cannot wait to see what this new box entails, showing he doesn't already know. It looks like the tachyons disrupted this ability of Manhattan's for good, so he lives in the here and now it seems, no more time travel along his own timeline.

And for those wondering if he did indeed create life? Read the scan above. He picks some material from the planet up, he evolved and altered some microscopic forms, made some goop out of it, and let it go to see what it becomes. Now we don't know of the quality of it, or what it will even become, but there it is.

In Closing:

So there it is. A good starting point I feel for anyone wanting to discuss Dr. Manhattan. I’ll update it with any factual information presented when it is verified

Let the rumble begin...or not if everyone chooses to ignore this…

39 Comments

Terror Gauntlet

Alright, so I have had this idea for awhile now, and I thought I'd throw it out and see what kind of response I get. 
 
Here is your setting...a decimated city, in ruins and in flames: 

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We have 2 teams running this gauntlet.  Each team consists of 18 civilians and two cops, with 2 shotguns (Remington 870 pump action for the cops), 2 handguns (glock 17s), and everyone else holding a various assortment of crowbars, baseball bats, boards with rusty nails, and rocks.  The civilians with the guns are your average horror movie Joe's, who are not the best of aim, and have maybe had around a 5-10 minute lesson on their weapons, and are terrified out of their wits.  If they go all out, all trigger happy, then their ammo will last 2 steps in the gauntlet, but they can conserve it and stretch it out for four steps.
 
Team one is lead by one of my favorite horror movie icons: 
 
Ashley J. Williams 
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http://www.comicvine.com/ash/29-11302/  
Ash has his boomstick (unlimited ammo of course), his trusty chainsaw, and his metal hand. 
 
Team two is lead by one of my favorite comic book duos: 
 
Cassie Hack  and Vlad
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http://www.comicvine.com/cassie-hack/29-47906/  
http://www.comicvine.com/vlad/29-47905/ 
Vlad has his huge butcher knives, Cassie has a baseball bat, a hatchet, and well...Vlad. 
 
There are 9 steps to this gauntlet as the team leaders try and navigate through a decimated cityscape to reach salvation on the other side.  And of course, being a terror gauntlet, each step is a surprise/ambush for our hapless heroes: 
 
Step 1:  The group turns a corner and runs into 20 Zombie "Walkers", the original old school Romero style zombies. 
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Step 2:  After a short rest, and regrouping, the group travels a few miles and is set upon by: 
 
Michael Myers 
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 http://www.comicvine.com/michael-myers/29-46825/ 
 
Leather Face 
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http://www.comicvine.com/leatherface/29-41461/  
 
And 5 people infected with the Rage Virus (from the movie 28 Days Later, etc.)  
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 Step 3:  Again, our group tries to rest in that terrified, one eye opened kind of way when they are ambushed by: 
 
Father Wrath (Undead version) 
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http://www.comicvine.com/father-wrath/29-55357/  
 
Ms. America (Ouroboros Ascension) 
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 http://www.comicvine.com/emily-cristy/29-54139/ 
 
Step 4:  Deciding that maybe sitting still for a nap wasn't such a great idea, the group gets on the move, and sees a grocery store.  Deciding that some supplies and the all important twinkie might be in order,  the group is hit by 10 zombie runners (modern style Dawn of the Dead remake and Zombieland zombies). 

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Step 5:  While leaving the store and trying to decide if it is safe to eat the twinkie after the zombie bits have been cleaned from it, the group is set upon by: 
 
Evil Ash  
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http://www.comicvine.com/evil-ash/29-45785/  
 
5 Deadites (Evil Dead and Army of Darkness anyone?) 
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Step 6:  Tired, scared, and needing a potty break, our group finds an alleyway that looks deserted.  Little do they know, scaling the walls and looking for a snack is: 
 
The Fly (1986 movie edition) 
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Step 7:  The group makes it another few miles running and screaming (well, maybe our fearless leaders aren't screaming), when appearing suddenly out of nowhere in front of the group, as he is known to do, and will continue to do until dealt with is: 
 
Jason X (the uber scifi rendition of Mr. Voorhees) 
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http://www.comicvine.com/jason-voorhees/29-41459/  
 
Step 8:  After a double, no make that triple tap, or really a quadruple tap on Mr. Voorhees after he has been blown to bits, decapitated, and filled full of lead, the group decides to try and rest, again (will they never learn?), when sneaking up behind them is a: 
 
Tracker Predator w/2 "alien dogs" (see the new Predators flick)  
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Step 9:  The end is in sight! They can see the bus that will take them out of this terror filled city, but wouldn't you know it, between the group and the bus are two terrible foes from the movie The Relic, and the book The Relic (both slightly different takes on a cool beast): 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relic_(novel) 

Mbwun 
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Kothoga 
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 So, the idea is not at which step will either group not make it and fail or who can make it all the way through.  Our group leaders are trained horror movie/comic survival experts, so they will make it even if their respective groups bite the dust.  The grading points here are: 
 
 Who can make it out with the most civilians, and how many are lost during each step?
 Who does the run in the least amount of time?
 Who does it with more style and has the most "Zombie Kills of the Week" as it were? 
3 Comments

The Manhattan Effect aka Why we use FEATS

Now, this whole idea popped into my head after reading some of the Battle Forum arguments over Dr. Manhattan, so to get this out of the way right now:  I am not picking on nor making fun of Dr. Manhattan.  I call it the Manhattan Effect, because this is the most recent example in my mind, and it sounded like a catchy title.  So, basically, I am going to rehash and repost something I posted earlier, and expand upon some the ideas in the hopes of opening some eyes, and maybe squashing some future problems before they start.

What is the Manhattan Effect? In short:  When someone is arguing a case for their character to win, and they begin to expand upon and theorize about the characters abilities, usually to levels far beyond what has been shown in their comic appearances, and begin to use the theories and expanded abilities in battle threads as a basis for said character to win.   

Or, for an even simpler explanation:  It is using a lot of "ifs" and "buts" with no real "feats" to back up their argument.

Let's take me for example.  In a battle thread between a comic book character and myself, I would probably have a poor showing.  But, let's say one day I make a lucky guess about what someone was going to do or say.  Now, you don't know if I can read minds (I am fairly certain I can't), but in the battle thread, you take that bit of information and run with it:
  
"What if Wyldsong has telepathy or can read minds? Just because he hasn't done it before doesn't mean he can't do it.  He may not have the feats to back it up, "but" what "if" he really can? It's possible, I mean, he did state what so and so was going to say before they said it."

And we see where this train of thought starts run it's course to, and eventually I end up beating Galactus in some battle thread in the future...
 
You see, good arguments aren't won with "if".  You need facts to back up your case, and of course the feats or the characters showings in the comics are what we have to go on, in other words, those are our facts.  This is what justifies losses and wins in these theoretical debates, because if not, then the "ifs" go on forever:
 
"Well just because you haven't seen Mr. Y do so and so, doesn't mean he can't." 
"Well just because Mr. Y might be able to do so and so, then Mr. Z might be able to do so and so, disabling Mr. Ys so and so." 
"But just because you haven't seen Mr. Y do so and so, and Mr. Z might be able to do so and so, doesn't mean Mr. Y couldn't do so and so, beating Mr. Z." 
Etc., etc., so forth and so on. 
 
This is why people work hardcore with feats, because those are the actual benchmarks, it is your proof for your argument.  Regardless of whether or not the character was in 2 or 200 issues, those issues are what we have to work with.  It might not be fair for those characters that haven't been in a lot of issues, but that is a problem you need to take up with the publishers and writers, because its not a factor that should excuse the use of "ifs" and "buts".  Like any good scientist, you need proof to prove your theories.   
  
The proof doesn't lie in "ifs" and "buts".

32 Comments

Survivors

So let's see, we have our street levelers, enhanced humans, metahumans, cosmic beings, so forth and so on.  There is quite literally an endless list of catgories for hero and villain types, and sometimes there is a fine line between these catgories, and often you'll find your favorite character straddling that ever so thin line.
 
You see, out of all these categories though, I just don't find them befitting of some of my favorite characters.  Edamame's threads on horror films tonight got me to thinking about the genre I love most, and some of my favorite heroes (two of which I'll discuss below).  If you haven't guessed by the title of this little post, I am talking about the only word that I can dredge up that seems to fit these hapless and sometimes unwilling heroes...Survivors.
 
What is a Survivor? And no, I am not talking about a bunch reality star wannabes in a remote location whoring themselves out for pseudo fame and money, and if that is what you thought, then you are so voted off of this island.

 
Quite simply, the way I see it, a Survivor is someone thrust into an unimaginable situation, often times without special training or powers (and if they do have either, it's normally not on the level of most your favorite spandex wearing heroes or villains), and they survive.  They find a way to beat the odds be it dumb luck or the hand of fate.  These are the guys and gals that you could probably just about put into any situation, versus any evil imaginable (and sometimes unimaginable) and they will find a way to come out on top.  Most importantly, these are characters that started their lives not knowing about and unprepared for the kinds of threats they are facing, living the life of a normal person, blissfully unaware. 

Now, this isn't necessarily limited to the horror genre, but that genre is abound with Survivor characters. 

Two of my favorites: 

Ashley J. Williams     

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"First you wanna kill me, now you wanna kiss me. Blow." -- Ash 

Probably my favorite Survivor of all time.  Ash started his career going to a cabin in the woods with some friends and ended up being the smart @$$, chainsaw/shotgun wielding, Deadite demolishing, "Chosen One" hero of the Evil Dead series.  This man has faced deadites, Freddy, Jason, the Marvel Zombies, and has still found a way to come out on top and survive.  You could put him up against anything and anyone, and odds are, Ash will find a way to survive, if not come out on top.
    
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
Cassie Hack     

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"I'm gonna get all Elmer Fudd on her @$$." -- Cassie 

Here is another favorite of mine.  Cassie Hack was once a bitter outcast teenage girl in school until she found out her mother was killing students that had been mistreating her daughter.  Of course, once confronted, Mrs. Hack commits suicide by dropping her head into a pot of boiling gravy (because really, what other way are you going to off yourself if you are a lunch lady?), only to return later from the grave as a Slasher, causing Cassie to have to hunt and destroy her own mother.  With the help of Vlad, Cassie now hunts Slashers in the world, while searching for clues on her father, who seems to be tied into this mess somehow.  This is one kick @$$ gal who faces powerful, inhuman Slashers, and finds a way to come out on top.  This is the stuff Survivors are made of.   
 
 
 
 
 
  
There are tons of other characters that probably deserve mention in this little diatribe, but to be honest, I need to get some sleep.  All I can really say in closing is that while it may be fun to delve into the world of your spandex laden heroes, and watch the superpowers battle it out as a helpless mankind can do nothing but watch and wait...I just find it a little more interesting to see my heroes that are a little more down to Earth face impossible and terrifying odds, sometimes successful and sometimes not.  Survivors all the way.

1 Comments