Westwood_Trevor

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Naruto: Why Genjutsu works on people without chakra (outside Naruto verse) ---> Canon Feats, Explanations, Statements

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I've juts collected all the evidence we have about "why Genjutsu works without chakra".

This dumb argument has to stop. It was never stated anywhere that Genjutsu works by controlling the chakra flow, what is said is that Genjutsu affects the senses to control the chakra flow not the other away around. You people are making as much sense as someone who interprets "A water-pump is something that works on electricity to control water flow" as " Water-pump controls water to work on electricity".

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The other silly argument people tend to use to claim that Genjutsu works by controlling chakra is the fact that using a burst of chakra can break Genjutsu, but we have seen that certain types of Genjutsu can also be broken through pain so does this mean that Genjutsu works by controlling pain as well, as opposed to it being an effect of Genjutsu ? Obviously not...

Furthermore what those people like to conveniently forget is the fact that chakra was given to humans by the sage of six paths, the man who confessed that he didn't like the way his mother was using Genjutsu to control people and searched for ways to dispel it, so how very surprising indeed that the chakra he gave to humanity can free them from Genjutsu...

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Also, you speak of the chakra pathway system but it seems that you don't know much about it. Just because Shinobi can create chakra doesn't mean that everyone and their grandmother in Naruto go around carrying a mass of chakra inside of them. It has been explained since part 1 that chakra is something Ninjas create consciously when they need to, not at all times.

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^ As the above chart shows and explains, chakra is something that is consciously created for the use of Ninjutus or Genjutsu. Various showings through the series confirm this. just to use a couple :

Naruto building up chakra to use the Summoning jutsu, but getting that chakra absorbed by Kisame, conclusion : "I can't feel any chakra".

Tobirama discussing the village's future with Hashirama, but not realizing that Madara was spying on them, reason : "I'm not kneading any chakra"

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A more practical display of this comes from the Byakugan vision. For instance.

Neji's body while not using chakra and when using chakra :

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Kidomaru's chakra network when preparing to use a jutsu :

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^ Notice how chakra only flows through the parts related to the jutsu.

And yet you people insist that Genjutsu can only work on chakra, even though we have seen Kabuto and Itachi Genjutsu fodder villagers... so tell me why would the villagers and some random woman, who for all we know were not even trained to create chakra in the first place, be creating chakra and having it flow through their heads for no apparent reason whatsoever, just so Itachi and Kabuto can use it to genjutsu them ? The answer is that they weren't, and Genjutsu does not need chakra to work.

  • 1: Infinite Tsukuyomi is a Genjutsu. Kaguya put the world in a massive Genjutsu, before chakra creation. Saying "it was the strongest Genjutsu so nope. Still Genjutsu can't affect people without chakra 'cause only Inf. Tsukuyomi can" it's very very hilarious. That's a Genjutsu, end of story.

  • 2: Another example is in the Itachi's light novel. On, i believe, page 30, Itachi was talking to Shisui, and Shisui explains that occular Genjutsu and Genjutsu like it can affect anyone because it doesn't disrupt chakra like other basic Genjutsu.
    He explains that Genjutsu affect the nervous system and mind itself and fills the gap by pouring their own chakra as a medium.

    If jiraiya's quote isn't enough to convince you, another quote by another character saying the exact same thing should work:

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  • 3: Boruto The Movie: scientists created a ninja tool that allows people without chakra to use jutsu. They wouldn't need to create a tool like that if everyone had chakra, which means not everyone has chakra. Which means yes, putting villagers under a Genjutsu means you didn't manipulate the chakra in their cranial nerves, something that, again, is only mentioned in a wiki, and again only proves that Genjutsu targets the senses.

So now that that is settled, we can all agree that:

  • There is no scan in the whole Naruto manga stating that Genjutsu requires a target to have chakra, whereas there is more than one scan explicitly stating that Genjutsu targets the senses.
  • Not everyone in the Narutoverse has chakra constantly in their body, they have to first be trained to make it and then actively make it, which is proven numerous times in the manga.
  • Kaguya's usage of IT isn't an exception to the rule because there wasn't a rule in the first place because there are literally no scans stating such a rule in the entirety of the manga. For it to be the exception, there would have to be an example of a Genjutsu failing to work because a target didn't have chakra.

Simple Example:

Chakra must be created first, as already proved. And in order to create chakra training is required (ex. Shinobi: Genin, Chunin, Jonin etc).

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  • After ^ I'll show you Kabuto performing a Genjutsu, "Temple of Nirvana", and put every normal person into an induced instinctive-sleep (Genin included, like Naruto).
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  • This is a normal girl that was mind controlled by Itachi with a Sharingan Genjutsu.
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  • In the Boruto manga Toono Katasuke was put under a Genjutsu, mind control, by Kashin Koji.
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Special thanks to @mudamudamuda and @thevivas

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39 Comments

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higherpower

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higherpower  Moderator

Nice. Detailed and well explained

@westwood_trevor Good job. I don't know why it's so hard for people to accept it as a TP attack

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Westwood_Trevor

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@god_vulcan: Thanks. I appreciate it!

Probably 'cause Genjutsu is a very nice hax, hard to counter or nullify for several chars.

But let's be serious. . . almost every manga has a strong hax. OP has Logia intang. for example.

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Dust_Hawk

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Well done ? only a biased one can say sh*t about Genjutsu and how it work now.

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linglung

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@westwood_trevor: hmm...

Nice...

for now i will use this if someone said genjutsu can't work on people without chakra

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Ronit_96

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Well Done!

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Westwood_Trevor

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BilboBaggins

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Very good explanation by using scans

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passingthroughv2

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This is great

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Westwood_Trevor

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LadyAdeline

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Finally! Thank you ^_^

Now the lowballers can't deny Genjutsu anymore.

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Westwood_Trevor

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JOVIOLMA

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pretty good.

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deactivated-5d5d8c614fa9a

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Great! I'm use this when the lowballers come.

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Kayc

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Nice work bro

Always known "genjutsu working because of chakra" was a foolish notion. You just cemented my thoughts.

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AnimeFreak1

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Thank you!!!!!!!

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Almond

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While you make some good, mostly irrefutable points, it’s hard to take you seriously and convince people who don’t believe when you’re acting like a condescending, immature child. You don’t state facts like an unbiased “here’s what I’ve found on why genjutsu works on people without chakra” you say them like “Here’s why you’re retarded if you disagree with me”. You just act so superior and like you’re the ultimate judgment on the topic. Like this quote, “ If jiraiya's quote isn't enough to convince you, another quote by another character saying the exact same thing should work“. It’s so condescending and unnecessarily rude. If you’re going to try to convince people onto your side, try not being an asshole to them. Also, it’s a little sus that all the comments are praising you.

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spartankobe

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Edited By spartankobe

Chapter 29 of Boruto, page 34-35. Naruto says himself says that everyone has chakra, and that it's not exclusive to ninja. He then goes on to describe it as a binding force that connects everyone.

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Westwood_Trevor

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Chapter 29 of Boruto, page 34-35. Naruto says himself says that everyone has chakra, and that it's not exclusive to ninja. He then goes on to describe it as a binding force that connects everyone.

Everyone can create chakra. As shown above in my thread, people must create chakra first and they must be trained to do it.

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Gokukid2005

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Chapter 29 of Boruto, page 34-35. Naruto says himself says that everyone has chakra, and that it's not exclusive to ninja. He then goes on to describe it as a binding force that connects everyone.

and some like Rock Lee are unable to cause... reasons

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Ebitan

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@almond said:

While you make some good, mostly irrefutable points, it’s hard to take you seriously and convince people who don’t believe when you’re acting like a condescending, immature child. You don’t state facts like an unbiased “here’s what I’ve found on why genjutsu works on people without chakra” you say them like “Here’s why you’re retarded if you disagree with me”. You just act so superior and like you’re the ultimate judgment on the topic. Like this quote, “ If jiraiya's quote isn't enough to convince you, another quote by another character saying the exact same thing should work“. It’s so condescending and unnecessarily rude. If you’re going to try to convince people onto your side, try not being an asshole to them. Also, it’s a little sus that all the comments are praising you.

The point is he made a compelling argument against a rather silly Lowball. The praises are for the effort he put into this thread.

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utkanflash

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Well most of the pages aint have official translation (like Tobirama's scene he was talking about his sensory not kneading chakra) .

And 2nd those "normal people" that casted under genjutsu are all have chakra flow system in their body. They're normal for narutoverse not normal for ours. And you dont need to "create chakra" for that.

Do you create energy by thought for your circulating system ? Nope, if you eat, drink and sleep. Your body will do that automaticly. And in Narutoverse common public can do the same.

Chakra = Spiritual Energy + Physical Energy.

Physical Energy comes from nourishment + sleep + training + genetics

Spiritual Energy comes from training + genetics + exclusivity

Shinobies receives all. Normal people receives so little of it (specialy the physical side).

But in the end they have chakra flow path system too.

Son in the end. There is no such genjutsu that casted & worked on "chakra-less" object/subject.

And about efecting on 5 senses. That still aint pull Chakra out of the situation. Cuz Chakra also responsible from enchanced senses too.

Soo ? Again there is no clear argument for "Genjutsu'll work against anyone" claim. I'm a huge naruto fan, ı would love the idea. And ı do also think its possible to work on some casual chakra-less person.

But thats not a stated/proved fact. We cant count on it but we can only speculate it. Its different.

And this article is all about biasly detailed speculation. It might be true, it might be wrong. Nothing clear, nothing certain.

So thats why, most of the responses/comments on this piece are just pathetic and lame :D Sorry but it is. Cuz you just wanna stick with it what you wanna believe, you dont care certain facts.

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utkanflash

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Well done ? only a biased one can say sh*t about Genjutsu and how it work now.

Great! I'm use this when the lowballers come.

@kayc said:

Nice work bro

Always known "genjutsu working because of chakra" was a foolish notion. You just cemented my thoughts.

@linglung said:

@westwood_trevor: hmm...

Nice...

for now i will use this if someone said genjutsu can't work on people without chakra

Lol to most of these :D Make your own researches and arguments. This article aint proove nothing it only suggest a thing. Nothing certain.
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deactivated-5e9ce30923d10

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I finished reading the Itachi novel, there it is clarified that the genjutsus of the normal Sharingan need chakra flow, but those of the Mangekyou Sharingan elude it

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deactivated-5e9ce30923d10

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@gokukid2005: Rock Lee can use chakra, for something we see him standing in the water or climbing trees with his feet.

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deactivated-605fa2b8d3995

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this scan literally debunks your whole thread, good job

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TheFede

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@mevbi: Are you going to ignore the ton of arguments that correctly explain how a genjutsu works just to hold on to an ambiguous statement?

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TheFede

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Vegeto-San2003

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@thefede: so can Tsukuyomi work On Characters like Goku than?

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the_alchemist01

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Kek he straight up brought out Goku ^^

This was a nice find, great job man

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ReimSupreme

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Naruto characters have a different biological structure than other characters. The chakra network is an energy based nervous system equvalent. Mangekyō genjutsu are known to surpass this limit and are known to be able to affect people with out chakra as they pour their own chakra in.

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deactivated-5f82716b7261e

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Everyone in naruto has chakra and without it they would die.

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unicorndonut

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@deactivated-5f82716b7261e

Wrong pal, even if this were the case, it’s impossible to prove that the spiritual energy part of chakra isn’t brought upon by the tree itself using the stamina or life energy of the planet as a medium to combine the two make chakra then absorb it all, still even then there was no chakra before hand. Chakra is legitimately alien and was brought to the earth not the other way around senjutsu or natural energy is its counter because its purely earth based (nature energy) being the only way to destroy TSBs which are all ninjutsu(Chakras) combined.

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Omega7373663

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@deactivated-5f82716b7261e

Wrong pal, even if this were the case, it’s impossible to prove that the spiritual energy part of chakra isn’t brought upon by the tree itself using the stamina or life energy of the planet as a medium to combine the two make chakra then absorb it all, still even then there was no chakra before hand. Chakra is legitimately alien and was brought to the earth not the other way around senjutsu or natural energy is its counter because its purely earth based (nature energy) being the only way to destroy TSBs which are all ninjutsu(Chakras) combined.

Good job ignoring the evidence and all the clear cut statements

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KekCumAgain

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Edited By KekCumAgain

Yes, It's been four fucking years almost five but I don't care. You literally debunk your whole argument with that first statement, which somehow you completely misread either on purpose or because you genuinely lack basic reading comprehension skills. Here's the official translation which clears it up a bit for those who truly cannot read:

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MasterBuster666

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Bookmarked.