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vjbthe3

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#1  Edited By vjbthe3
@floopay said:

Overall

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

By this logic, even while in the middle of a warehouse we can assume that Zack can summon a guy with a helicopter to airstrike through the warehouse without hitting the walls. There's a huge difference between Canon and Gameplay.

According to this, we should also assume Cloud had Meteor Strike because of Zack's DMW.

Isn't the Digital Mind Wave completely different from like a normal summon though? I don't really know if this is the best example to use. That being said, Cloud could know meteor strike. His mind got scrambled by the end of the game. But still the point stands, DMW and Summons aren't relatable.

Cutscenes and actual footage > Gameplay

Bahamut's attack is a cutscene...The gameplay is him not destroying anything of note... so depending on how you read into your own statement it's counterproductive to your argument.

The discussion about Sephiroth is in the Ultimania pages that include the official FF7 canon.

I'm sorry; but the writer, director, and creator of the FF7 franchise flat out stating that Sephiroth is the most powerful being in Advent Children, and having people comment on Weapons power (which they do in Crisis Core as well, by the way) is greater than a cutscene specifically designed for Zack's DMW.

Nobody in the FF7 verse is above City+ level. Sephiroth himself had to use Black Materia to summon a small continent busting attack; which was leaps and bounds above any other thing in existence, save Holy. It was so dangerous the Ancients sealed it away somewhere that required someone to die in order to try to retrieve it; and face a bunch of life ending threats over and above that.

Again, current FF7 is way stronger than original FF7. So while the scaling could be accurate in terms of inverse comparisons, the feats don't have to correlate to the scaling, and the feats could be superior to things that have already been represented.

So we're to assume Writer/Creator Intent > Everything else except animation; but animation != animator intent based on what fans do and do not want to believe?

Writer/Creator intent/ gameplay and animation are almost inseparable. The Director /Writer never really go into details over what their intent is, especially with the deep intrinsic parts. And it's not like comics where we can ask on their twitter page, even though games are much more open to interpretation. At this point, supernova has like nearly several explanations, none from the director's themselves. Thus why we discuss in the first place.

Neither of them were in Sephiroth's ballpark. They failed to land a single blow or push him back an inch in their dual. Sephiroth was shown to be leaps and bounds above them, even prior to Genesis's degeneration. And if you watch the Dual, Sephiroth is smiling and barely trying; while Genesis is giving it his all (and failing).

Angeal casually blocked Sephiroth and Genesis. Obviously Sephiroth was superior to either of them but saying neither of them wasn't in the ballpark is silly. Just because Spider-man can trash Wolverine, doesn't mean they're not in same tier.

And that was, in canon, the weakest version of Sephiroth. Who still relied on materia to cast magic.

When Cloud stabbed Sephiroth the first time it was with the Buster Sword while he was distracted and he was clearly injured. We watch him limping away with his mother's head; presumably because he's no longer strong enough to lift her body (remember, earlier he had ripped a metal statue out of its hold effortlessly). It's only here that Cloud is shown to be capable of overpowering Sephiroth. If that's not context, I don't know what is.

To be fair, completely forgot about this. But after rewatching the scene we still see Sephiroth is ridiculously stronger than Cloud. The only point I'm making is the scaling is inconsistent, as literally after getting batted away like a fly, Cloud still Overpowers Sephiroth with a sword in his stomach.

What looks like the blast area and what is the blast area are two different things. The blast area from Chaos's attack covers most of a continent; but it affected only a metropolis sized area. So we should take blast radius with a few grains of salt.

I know nothing about what you're talking about here. I mean in my opinion a blast radius usually includes high heats and powerful winds and stuff, so that should effective in destroying things. Though To be fair, you probably know more about FF7. I just need some amazing reasoning to not believe what we're seeing on screen. I understand your reasoning for saying it's not moon level, as clearly that's smaller than a moon, but to just discount the feat would take some explaining.

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vjbthe3

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@floopay:

Writer/Creator intent > Animator intent.

The difference is the gameplay cinematics were done by people not involved with any of the storyboarding and are just making the cinematics to look cool. It's not the same as something like a movie.

Says who? The game had a director. I'm pretty sure the only piece that stands separate when considering the direction of the game is the music... which could be said the same for movies.

Plus that blast barely covers a small peninsula, so it's not above mountain/island level anyway.

Again, I feel it's meant to be a moon which just isn't drawn to scale, as they almost never are. Anyways again taking it as just purely visual. I'd say that thing was at least large island. And that's still lowballing. The blast radius was clearly seen from space.

Bahamut SIN was intended to be greater than Bahamut FURY, and Bahamut SIN was a little over City Block level with his destructive power.

Advent children came out before Crisis core. Square doesn't care about consistency in power levels.

Confirmed in Final Fantasy 7 (Classic), the most powerful creatures that can be summoned out of the planet are Weapon. Bahamut is not weapon. And the most powerful feats produced by Weapon were about City level+ at the height of their ability. The only single power that could rival them was otherworldly and about a continent level attack. Beyond that it required the greatest weapon produced by man to kill them. One of which was a City level attack, the other was hard to quantify; but should be City+ level.

Same as above. Base Sephiroth just went up a tier or 2 in the remake.

The strongest canon character ever shown was Sephiroth in Advent Children. This was confirmed in both the official Ultimania and the original and complete booklets for the movie. And he was nowhere near Mountain level. In fact, even Jenova was below that level at the height of her power.

I would have to see, but if it came out before Crisis Core I wouldn't count on it too much.

And again, Zack Fair has very clear limitations shown throughout the series and he is, at best, Spiderman level. He doesn't play on the same field as Cloud/Sephiroth/Vincent/Weiss.

Again, I really think this just might have something to do with everyone getting stronger in every new incarnation of FF7, and that scaling shouldn't be taken into as much consideration as you're putting into as far as strength levels go. We should take their feats as feats. I mean scaling in FF7 is funny. Cloud as like 3rd Soldier beat Sephiroth. And there's like no extra context even needed there. Cloud straight up overpowered Sephiroth while Cloud was at his weakest. Meanwhile Zack was handling Angeal and Genesis, both of whom while weaker than Sephiroth, were easily within his ballpark. Yet Sephiroth still stomped Zack without any effort whatsoever.

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@floopay said:

He does not. That thing he fires his beam out of isn't the moon. The moon is close to half the size of the Earth and like 4x the diameter of Earth away. The thing he fires into is just barely outside of the planet's orbit and is nowhere near 1/100th the size of he planet. So it's well below small continental.

Creator Intent should be taken into consideration. Visual Scale isn't reason enough to discount the feat, or even draw conclusions from it.

And he literally has zero feats of actually dealing that much damage. Bahamut Fury was summoned next to the Shinra Building and in canon barely damaged it. He is below building level, by actual feats. In fact, by feats he is one of the smallest and least powerful Bahamuts.

He changes the environment as soon as he arrives... plus conflict of game mechanics and cinematics.

Even if you're using visuals to gain scale from his cinematic, you're silly if you think this is less than building...

No Caption Provided

He was also defeated 3 times by a Spiderman level character. So there's that.

*Shrugs* Maybe just shouldn't draw conclusions from scaling

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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@daredevilaang: She's nowhere near naruto or Sasuke and her taijitsu is far below Lee or Guy, in regards to the main characters, she's useless, as in she adds nothing to the battle.

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@floopay: Bahamut Fury has a beam the size of the surface of the moon. That should be like at least large county, maybe small continental.

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@bink_69: Doomslayer is pretty durable. Nowhere near as versatile as the ninja's but all those two are offering are explosions, he should be able to tank the hits and hit back. Meanwhile Ninja's on this tier aren't that tough, especially to piercing weapons which Bullets do/ They might survive the energy weapons , but the Crucible and bullets should tear them. And he's handled versatility well before

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@bink_69: he gets a speed boost here, aka, speed equalized.

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@rex318: Itachi, Pein, and Tobi beat him. The rest are up for debate, but I'd say Kisame gives him the toughest fight, if he doesn't out right beat him.

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#9  Edited By vjbthe3

@reactor said:

Humiliating as it is to admit, I actually thought this was going to be about the power ring itself and the dawnbreaker sword from Skyrim

... same

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@gangorca: @hayabusa77: Bowser at his strongest isn't needed here. Current Bowser from Odyssey would stomp even with limited feats. 64 Bowser would win at least. And I think only a couple 2d Bowser have any shot of losing.