valinorbob

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valinorbob

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#1  Edited By valinorbob

I'll take Thunderstrike, Beta Ray Bill, and the Thor Corps.

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valinorbob

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#2  Edited By valinorbob

Captain Cascader says:

"**The following changes were just made**1. Speed was changed to Super Speed.2. Electricity was changed to Electricity control3. Pyrotechnic was changed to Fire Control4. Undead was changed to Necromancy5. Vampire was changed to Vampirism6. Godly powers changed to Divine Powers7. **We are being more careful about new powers being added to characters****The following changes will be made by the end of the day**1. Addition of Attractiveness Femenine, Atrractiveness Masculine (for no other reason then it'll be fun to rank).2. Split of Weapon Master into Marksmanship and Melee Weapons3. Addition of Probability Manipulation to the power list.4. Addition of Cosmic Powers.**What we'll likely do a little later**1. Merge a couple powers.All other proposed changes by valinorbob and others, while sound, either take away from specifivity or are really just a bit too nitpicky for us. We'll revisit this again in a month or so, but for now we wanna see how things flesh out before we make any moves.

What? No Wisecracking?

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valinorbob

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#3  Edited By valinorbob

That's true, Bishop, but I think that's mostly a perspective problem. Flight could easily be the power used to rank speed of flight between people, but it could also be used to rank maneuverability or agility in the air. Some powers have many facets that could be ranked independently, but I can't see a good way to show this without simply making multiple powers.

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valinorbob

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#4  Edited By valinorbob

When has Cyclops beaten Wolverine? I've never seen this or even heard of it until now. Wolverine is a master of several forms of martial arts (and he's had over a hundred years of experience fighting for his life). He took down Shang-chi, the master of Kung Fu, easily. And ok, Thor is an exception since he has had hundreds of years of experience fighting. I've never read too many Superman comics, but Kryptonian Martial Arts? That just sounds like they wanted to give him a fighting chance against Batman without his powers and came up with that as the excuse...

Anyway, my point is really that super powers should be exactly that, super. Beyond normal human limits. Wolverine has had more than a normal human lifetime to hone his fighting skills, Captain America has been boosted slightly beyond the normal human limits. Iron Fist has trained with supernatural teachers and learned supernatural techniques. I wouldn't really accredit Batman with super fighting skills, but I think his extreme motivation has allowed him to go beyond what any other person would be willing to do, so it is fitting (that and he needs SOMETHING to be ranked on besides Gadgets).

This is also partially an attempt to lower the number of people with any given power, as I personally don't like seeing pretty much every character on the site having Unarmed Combat.
Post Edited:2006-12-19 04:33:53

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valinorbob

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#5  Edited By valinorbob

Long post, be warned.

First of all, great site, it is awesome. However, I feel that there are a few too many powers and that many characters are being given powers that don't really fit, which hinders the ranking system because there are lot of odd matchups. This might require reseting all power assignments and starting from scratch, but since it seems a lot of the rankings have been lost recently, this might not be a bad time to do it.

Part of the issue is that some powers are just different uses of a main power. Telekinesis for example, refers to moving things with one's mind. Many uses of telekinesis, however, appear as other powers like flight or force fields. Should a character also be given those powers, even though they come from the telekinesis power? What about the Invisible Woman, she can create force fields and move things with her thoughts, but does that mean she has Telekinesis? No, because technically, she isn't affecting the object directly, she is manipulating an invisible force field to move things around, so her power should be Force Manipulation or something to that effect, which can include the creation of force fields and turning invisible.

So, my proposed changes are two-fold. First, we need to clean up the actual powers page and remove duplicate or confusing powers. Second, we need to change the way we assign powers to characters to make sure we are actually assigning their core powers and not every possible use of one of their core powers.

Psionic/Psychic

These are perhaps the most confusing as they are both very similar and may or may not include several other powers that are listed separately. I propose that we remove Psychic and Psionic and have just:

  1. Psychic Awareness - This character has some extra sensory perception that may provide warnings, alert them to the presence of other psychically aware characters, or give them some defense against mental attacks. Any character with Psychic Awareness can generally be thought of as being Psychic.

  2. Telepathy - This character has the ability to communicate with their thoughts. This includes reading other's minds and projecting their thoughts to others. However, some characters may only be able to read minds and some may only be able to project their thoughts. The most powerful telepaths can erase memories or take control of another's actions.

  3. Telekinesis - This character can exert physical force on an object with only their thoughts. Some telekinetics are limited to affecting only objects they can touch, while others have no such limits. Telekinesis can be used to move objects, create force fields, blast enemies, and even fly.

Super Sight, Hearing, Smell, etc

I think it would be ok to reduce these to just Super Senses, as I can't think of any characters that have only one heightened sense and any that do can just be explained in their bio.

Super Strength and Stamina

I believe Stamina can be eliminated as it is generally just a side effect of super strength. Are they really any characters with super stamina but not super strength?

Godly Powers

Ok, I stil have no idea what Godly Powers are supposed to represent, but I'm going to assume it is the ability to bend the laws of the universe, in which case it should be renamed Reality Control as there are non-gods who can do that.

Healing and Immortal

These are somewhat confusing because it seems that some people are using Immortal in place of Invulnerability or Healing. Wolverine is not Immortal, neither is Superman. Immortal should be used only for characters who will not die of old age (and the description should also mention that this typically includes immunity to poisons and diseases). Healing should be renamed to Healing Factor or Regeneration, to show that it is a passive ability. If there are any characters that can actually heal others, then a Heal Other power could be added.

Unarmed Combat

This should be renamed to Enhanced Fighting Ability or Martial Arts, not everyone that has ever thrown a punch should be given this power, only those who are well beyond the average human. Captain America, Batman and Wolverine would qualify, but Cyclops would not, neither would Superman, Hulk, or Thor because without their super strength they would be no match for a trained martial artist in a hand to hand fight.

Power Suit, Feral and Implants

These are all origins of powers and not powers themselves. Also, Feral is too vague, from the descriptions it seems like several characters could simply have Feral as their only power, but this doesn't really tell you what they do. It should be renamed Animal Form and used only for those characters that actually transform themselves into animals (like Wolfsbane, or Beast Boy). The character should be given the actual powers they have whether this is super strength, flight, super senses, or whatever and it should be explained in their bio why they have these powers.

Magic

Magic is almost the exact opposite of the powers mentioned above as there is more to magic than just duplicating other powers' effects, and different uses of powers should not be assigned to a character, just explained in their bio. So Doctor Strange would have Magic as his only power, and possibly Gadgets as he does have many magical trinkets, and in his bio it should mention the various types of spells he uses, like creating force fields, flying, astral projection, etc.

Miscellaneous

  1. Pyrotechnic could be renamed Fire Control.

  2. Electricity could be renamed Electricity Control.

  3. Energy Control should be added for any characters that are similar to Human Torch/Iceman but with a generic or indistict type of energy, like Silver Surfer, Banshee, Siryn, etc.

  4. Undead is a character type, not a power.

  5. Vampire could be renamed Vampirism, Life Leech, or Life Drain.


Post Edited:2006-12-19 04:17:16

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#6  Edited By valinorbob

I would say make the powers(and images) of the classic character. What most people will be familiar with, then fill in their bio with what's going on now, and how their powers have changed, if at all. Because, honestly, most people will remember Psylocke as a ninja babe with a psychic blade. Whether it is made with telekinesis or telepathy doesn't really matter for the core character concept. You could fill a book with all the crazy stuff that has happened to Superman, but I think his bio should present the classic character and then explain how he as changed over the years, rather than presenting the newest form of the character and leaving people to wonder if it really is the same character they were looking for.

So, for example, Superman should be shown with the classic costume and his powers should be listed as Super Strength, Invulnerability, Flight, Speed, and Blast Power, because that's what he is at the most basic level. There's no need to give him Ice Control, Intellect, Immortal, Healing and Unarmed Combat. He doesn't really even need Stamina as that's not really a power but a side-effect of super strength. And the super senses could be combined into just Super Senses.

Less is more for rankable powers, and more is better for bios.

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#7  Edited By valinorbob

Ah, that makes sense. However, the radiation option is now a bit out of place, maybe change it to Energy/Cosmic Force or something? For those not-really-a-physical-creature type characters like Galactus, Phoenix, Captain Universe, etc.

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#8  Edited By valinorbob

I bought it after playing the demo. I read all the terrible reviews, too, but the demo was so much fun and I really wanted to do the boss battles. I have to say it was not worth buying. The whole game will take you 5-6 hours, and there's no replayability. The "story" is just a few crappy looking cut scenes that explain the story of the movie, but have nothing to do with the game. Then there's just random battles with robots, mutants, dragons, or aliens every 2 minutes and a boss battle every now and then. There are a few spots where you can turn into Bizzaro but you are on a short timer (there's no free mode as Bizzaro). There's a few races against Mxlzysptlk(sp?) but you just fly along a glowing beam and have to be almost perfect to win, but you don't get anything for them unless you beat them all, then you just get an achievement. Then there's 100 kittens to rescue, but good luck finding them in the 80 square miles of city. And that's it. There's no random crimes to stop, no goofy side missions like taking pictures or delivering pizzas, no hidden items to collect, no bonus for exploration, and you don't even get to upgrade your powers yourself, they just happen at certain times (and don't make a big difference).

Overall, it is fun being Superman, but you can just play the demo for that, there's really nothing more to the full game that you can't get out of the demo(the boss battles are pretty boring so no loss there, and Superman can do everything Bizarro can, but without the time limit). With such great games out there like Spider-man 2 and Hulk, you'd think people would just start with those as a base and build from there, but with Superman Returns they started with nothing and added just enough to call it a game. The 80 square mile city is wasted because it's basically empty.

Part of the problem, I think, is that they didn't make it for the next-gen consoles, they made it for the current gen and just increased the draw distance for the 360. Had they developed it for the 360 from the beginning, they could have had a lot more stuff going on, instead of taxing the previous consoles to their limits just trying to draw the city.

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#9  Edited By valinorbob

Well, until the 'secondary mutation' craze kicked in, Quicksilver topped out at like 200 mph, so Flash was way faster. Now, Marvel has upped the power levels on a lot of mutants and that put Quicksilver at about what the Flash used to be before the speed-force stuff became a big deal.

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#10  Edited By valinorbob

There is an Agility power to cover super reflexes, Speed refers to being able to travel at great speed by some means (running, jumping, flying, swimming, etc).

And the truth is that Batman would only have a chance against most super heroes/villains if he had prior knowledge of their powers and time to plan for a fight with them, he's just not tough enough to take the first shot from most people and still be able to fight back. Part of the problem with the rankings here is that it's more of a popularity contest than anything else. The Batman fans are going to vote for Batman no matter what, and the Superman fans are going to vote for Superman no matter what, and so on and so forth. There's no good way to do a vs rating system without popularity coming into play.