TheOneWhoKnows

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@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf: Yes, his describing my logic as "fallacious" and my arguments as "crappy" is perfectly "civil".

In The Twilight Zone.

Or on The Bizarro World,

I adopt my style of conversing to how I am addressed, first.

Funny how you skipped right past his "civil" comments he enacted first to go after me.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with you being a fan of Surfer.

Your hypocrisy "only proves my point further".

You're wasting your time with your line of "concern", so either address me about the topic of the thread, or go away.

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#2  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf: You have got to be kidding.

You look at that exchange, and claim what you did?

I'm sure your user name has nothing to do with your point of view.

SMH.

Poster, please.

I'm going to say this once, politely:

Either make a case for one of the teams-the topic of the thread-when addressing me, or mind your business.

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#3  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@jay_z94: said:

Yes it was tested once, but nowhere does it state that it destroyed 10 star systems in one blast.

I shouldn't be surprised that a person who, in a previous thread, looks at multiple instances of Thor being brutally, bloodily stabbed yet twisted reality inside out to claim that all those examples=Thor didn't get stabbed, can't get stabbed. You are still the King of Willfully Ignore Evidence To Get A Result You Want,

Please produce for me where the "ambiguity" in that statement is. Where it says "multiple" blasts were done. Where it says "multiple" tests were undergone.

It doesn't.

One test=/=One blast. Your logic is fallacious.

One test, 10 star systems destroyed, not a single other thing stated whatsoever to you ="multiple" blasts or "multiple" tests taken. Your "logic" is ridiculous bordering on delusional.

The narration is straight forward. There is no room to show what TEN STAR SYSTEMS worth of damage would look like. That is what the narration is for, to explain in no uncertain terms what happened,

Regardless of what the artist can show (which is a crappy argument anyway, seeing as they have shown Universes and Galaxies on panel before), there's still absolutely no evidence that 10 star systems were blown up with one blast.

After your "stellar" track record of "crappy" arguments and absolutely atrocious "reasoning (Thor has combat speed equal to Superman and Wonder Woman, anyone) you have the gall to talk. It is "absolutely" apparent to anyone not going to ridiculous lengths to get out of admitting the obvious that the 10 star systems were blown up with one blast---otherwise the narrations would say otherwise. You do this crap all the time; as another user once told you, does the writer have to come to your house and spoon feed you what the meaning of simple words mean now?

SMH.

As mentioned, the construct has no capacity to "hold back" it's power---and it was clearly trying to terminate Diana. Further scenes during Diana's confrontation with the creature displays just how powerful it is. Denying this is futile.

Considering that the blast that hit Diana was multitudes smaller than the one that was shown destroying a planet/moon, it can be consluded that Diana did not show 10x solar system durability.

That ridiculous premise can be "consluded" by someone who low balls all the time, yes; in reality, it is just as I stated: the construct has no capacity to "hold back" it's power, and no narration, speech box, or thought bubbles in the story indicated it did.

Your fantasies are not fact,

You know, it's funny the lengths people will go to try to rearrange on panel, straightforward scenes and narrations to low ball Diana (and Superman as well) to avoid conceding their power levels-then turn around and accuse me of "hyping" their feats.

You know, it's funny the lengths people will go to try to rearrange on panel, straightforward scenes and narrations to high ball Diana (and Superman as well) to avoid conceding their power levels-then turn around and accuse others of "lowballing" their feats.

Now you're enacting the Pee Wee Herman "I Know You Are But What Am I" strategy of turning a phrase around to "debate"?

Seriously?

Oh, good grief.

(Polite golf clap) Oh, well done,

GAAAAAAAG.

Notice how I don't do that to Surfer or other Marvel characters. Unless a feat is just sooooo PIS encum

bered that I can't let it stand (like say, a street leveler like Captain America dodging The Squadron Supreme's Whizzer-that's as big a bit of nonsense as Batman avoiding or tagging DC characters like Impulse, Wally West, and Superman) I don't bend, twist, and rearrange reality into an unrecognizable pretzel to "disqualify" their feats; I don't need to. I don't have to falsely tear my opposing character down to build my character up. I am always confident the character I am advocating for has a matching or counter feat for their opponent. If I don't, then guess what:

I concede they would lose, at least the majority of the time.

Imagine that.

It's not important enough to "win" a proposed battle if the facts don't warrant that. If I have to go to outlandish lengths to make up, and twist scans and narrations to get out of conceding something. That's a hollow "victory" that I have no use for.

You're not the only one that does this, of course; a user tried to twist Diana blocking the AOE blast of the The Quantum Zealot on a prior page.

Enough.

I'm not "hyping" anything. The easy to view, easy to read scans and narrations tell the tale quite succinctly.

I don't care about this fight or who wins. I'm just correcting misinformation.

You're not "correcting" anything---you are doing what you always do when you "debate", especially when it pertains to Diana: you twist reality into pretzels to low ball her beyond all reason.

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#4  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@kingant27: So you think willfully ignoring that in nice, big, easy to see scenes Void being defeated by Sentry throwing him in the sun means that he can't be beaten the same way by Superman-because you say so? You think scoffing, fake laughing and saying "lol" will make magic lightning flash, and the fact of Void being defeated that way will just go away?

Sorry it won't. and your antics won't ever change it.

As for Sentry, Molecule Man was severely weakened and compromised; he was not even able to repair a small city, and as can be seen in the easy to view scan was hallucinating! This is the context of Sentry's "great" victory over Owen!

No Caption Provided

And Reese apparently wanted to lose. Fantastic "triumph" for good 'ol Bob!

In addition to the above, Superman has fantastic matter manipulation resistance:

TRANSMUTATION/MOLECULAR MANIPULATION-Superman has withstood his molecules being transformed by mega powerful opponents such as the husband and wife team of Sodom and Gamorra http://imgur.com/a/eX4IS Skyhook http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/81805/1686017-supestransmutation.jpgwho was empowered by Blaze, a Death Goddess powerful enough to challenge Neron for control of The Nether Realms and WIN; Disciple, who was powered by several Elder Gods, who matter manipulated humanity into a prehistoric state on a planetary scale, and-though he altered the bodies/molecules of of the JLA-including Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Kyle Rayner Green Lantern-Kal tanked his efforts, smiled, said "Is that the best you got?" then snatched his staffhttp://imgur.com/a/JvgnY; Superman resisted someone matter manipulating a big 'ol hole in his body https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1066951 and he immediately pimp slapped the dude for his effrontery https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1066950 ; and Darkseid during the "Legends" mini series (who's Omega Effect was attuned to Superman's exact molecular structure, yet Kal fought back against this)http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45351/2350861-1066461_1183yv_super.jpg (and here is the rarely seen next scene where Supes immediately hits Darkseid back (Superman states that Kryptonite is a worse feeling)

No Caption Provided

There's more on stand by, but the above examples are MORE than enough to prove the point. I just don't see Sentry's powers being SOOO much more "special" than those beings that he could-FOR SURE- achieve what they could not

Superman has team busted multiple times, Superman has resisted TP from top tier telepaths multiple times

TP-The following scans and links are Superman, in order, resisting Dominus http://i.imgur.com/2GnY2dp.jpg;

No Caption Provided

Martian Manhunter on at least three occasions, such as in Martian Manhunter issue 20 where he stated a Kryptonian's brain is different from others, and that Superman can't be affected/detected by J'onn if Kal doesn't wish it, and including the above incident (note how a shocked Jonn' states that Supes, quote, "forced me out" of Kal's mind-there are few beings who could even momentarily STALL the Martian, much less do THAT); Braniac http://imgur.com/a/VCnVG (note how, despite Braniac amping up ever increasing "more power" in his TP assault, he is not able to take over Kal, ultimately destroying HIMSELF in his attempts); Maxwell Lord, even after several months of clandestine work, and finally having Supes under his control is not able to force Kal to kill http://i.imgur.com/Y1oio8F.jpg resists mind domination attacks from Neron;

No Caption Provided
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above, defies Eradicator (note how, as Superman resists Eradicator, he helpfully remembers several OTHER powerful TP's that he has resisted over the years

shortly after Kal soon uses his devastating heat vision to achieve victory);

No Caption Provided

Eclipso in "Superman The Man Of Steel Annual I" 1"http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/3164188-1885471987-30567.jpg -Superman remarks afterwards that over the years he's built up resistance to telepathy; resists the simultaneous mental AND spiritual assault of "The Light Of Heaven" from Asmodel the Angel, which when effective results in instant madness http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/wonder-woman-vs-magneto-1714954/?page=5(post 209; click the "spoilers" icon, it's the third scan); and Superman resists the being known as Hfuhruhurr, or "Union" despite this adversary having TP derived from the power of countless stolen brains throughout the universe. Note how the shocked telepath shouts "Impossible! He's broken free" during their battle

No Caption Provided
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Superman soon goes on to beat Union up for his effrontery.

and resists the simultaneous mental AND spiritual assault of "The Light Of Heaven" from Asmodel the Angel, which when effective results in instant madness http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/wonder-woman-vs-magneto-1714954/?page=5 (post 209; please click the "spoilers" icon, it's the third scan).

There are many, Many, MANY more examples so while it has worked against Kal before, TP against Superman is NOT a "cinch win" for Sentry (unless someone wants to argue that Bob's TP is somehow more "special" than ALL those people I mentioned).

Superman has destroyed force fields on many occasions

SENTRY'S FORCE FIELD-If Reynolds erected a force field, Superman has physically smashed force fields, such as Green Lantern force field constructs, by John Stewart

No Caption Provided

and Kyle Rayner

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and his heat vision is powerful enough to disrupt and break through force fields with infinite event horizons...

No Caption Provided

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...The heat vision is even capable of repairing reality itself http://i.imgur.com/qa9CHtW.jpg more evidence Sentry's force fields can be bypassed by Kal).

So yeah, Superman can beat him, and your saying "Nuh Uuuuhhhhhhhh!" over and over won't change that fact one iota.

"Error try again".

"LOL".

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#5  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@mnm__eminem:

Umm? Surfer post-Annihilation stomped Bill while Apologizing

On another occasion,Bill has one shotted Radd as well, so there's that; and Radd doing well against Bill on another occasion doesn't erase from existence the fact that Surfer has not been as effective against magical opponents on several occasions. That instance of Surfer having an occasion to "stomp" Bill doesn't make magic lightning come down and change the fact that magic has been effective against Radd go away.

and having trouble against Galactus is now a bad feat???

Forgive me for saying so, but you appear to be suffering from a bit of reading comprehension difficulty in this matter. Please show me where I claimed "having trouble against Galactus is now a bad feat". I defy you to produce where I typed those words. Let me revisit what I stated verbatim: (even Galuctus, who has much more Power Cosmic has publicly expressed his disdain for it because of what it's unpredictable qualities have done to him-Galactus-in fights). If you don't understand what that sentence means, let me help you out-if even Galactus, who of course has more Power Cosmic than Surfer, has issues with magic, then Radd has even more issues with magic. And that is pertinent because Batson is endowed with magic, and plenty of it---so Surfer's powers might not be as effective against Shazam, the same way it wasn't against others who are magic tinged.

Batson has nice durrabillity which does not translate into matter manipulation protection.

(A) Yes it does, just as Superman's durability does (Batson and Kal are virtually equals, plus Batson is composed of magic, which as noted before, dilutes Radd's effectiveness at times).

(B) Once again, there is no guarantee Radd would get the chance to try that tactic before he is assaulted by Shazam first.

Two people would be in the fight, remember?

Spectre is the biggest jobber in comics he's a literal plot device who is there just to make the story more intense.

Why is it that when something happens that you don't like, or counters what you believe, it's automatically "PIS" or someone is a "jobber"? SMH.

His power levels are so hard to put down. Also just because Captain Marvel is a being who utilizes magic does not translate into him gaining as much HAX as other magic users do.

Shazam withstanding a tesseract bomb because of his magic that others couldn't says he does.

Classic Strange would solo this team with a twiddle of his finer, why are you bringing him up lol.

Classic Strange might could do that; on the other hand, he has been beaten to the punch, hurt, and even KO'd by the likes of Black Panther, Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Mantis, Pile Driver, Hulk, and more---so he might not. Anyone of this DC team has the combat speed and striking power to beat Strange to the punch and take him out; I bring Strange up because he is an example of magic causing Radd's powers to not be as effective as usual

"LOL".

Also the reason Sentry doesn't do it to Thor is cause he acct has different types of mollecules than the average person

Not proven, and irrelevant even if that were so; there is no proof the "mollecules" of J'onn and Batson aren't beyond Sentry's ability to transmute, either.

---it's not a sure thing Surfer's matter manipulation would work on Shazam, for sure, and, given Batson's combat speed, Radd would even get the chance to try that (there would be two people in such a battle; you don't think Shazam is going to stand still with his arms at his sides, a dull look, a slack jaw, and just let Radd do whatever he wants to do to him, do you?)

Because of Shazam's magic, combat speed, and striking power, this battle would appear to be anyone's game, too.

Being a magical being does not translate into having matter manipulation resistance. Also, Surfer is not a magician he uses his abilities subconsciously. He does need to twiddle his fingers around like Doctor Doom and The Wizard. I'm not seeing how any of the things you listed prevent him from molecule manipulated by Sentry or Silver Surfer.

Perhaps because you don't want to see it. Strange "twiddles his fingers" to produce magic that confounds Surfer's power; Batson is magic that can possibly do the same. Just because you proclaim it wouldn't give Radd difficulty doesn't mean that is so. I'm not seeing how you can make such definitive assertions without proof other than because you say so.

J'onn J'onzz legitimately has the combat speed, strength and striking power to possibly KO Radd; can phase to avoid all his attacks; and has such great molecular control of his body he can regenerate from being a stain on the wall, or being obliterated to the point that only his arm was left.

Sentry can do this as well. This still does not prevent him from being matter transmuted. All of these guys have the combat speed to keep up. Nobody is speed blitzing anybody.

Right-therefore you cannot claim Sentry would-for sure-act before J'onn or Shazam would get to him first. If "all of these guys have the combat speed to keep up" and nobody is speed blitzing anybody" then how can you possibly say anything but that it's a toss up on who gets to who first?

?????

Your insisting Sentry or Radd will act first for sure simply because you say so doesn't work.

Wouldn't help Surfer, as Superman still has resisted everything he could do to him multiple times (which you can see if you read the previous post).

Umm Surfer has absorbed energy from a star and other sources before. Why wouldn't it help him?

Superman regularly "absorbs energy" from the biggest star around-the sun. And, as revealed in the "Annihilation" story arc, The Surfer's skin is designed to absorb various energies from beta particles to light. He is constantly being charged from hundreds of nearby stars and energies from distant galaxies. He can change this absorption into reflection if he chooses ---and this is how Superman's powers work: Superman can also absorb solar energies of other class stars such as white stars and also when he absorbed the solar energies of a blue star that increased his abilities to a higher degree and gave him additional abilities. The light of dwarf stars, pulsars, and quasars also grants Superman different abilities----Superman will be casually soaking up the star energy that Radd casually absorbs. Superman can literally absorb solar energy just by standing next to Surfer. Any amp Radd gets, Superman can get a matching amp. That's why it won't help him.

He can also use that extra energy to amp his teammates.

Superman, with his attosecond and above combat speed that he uses more often and better than Radd is just going to let Surfer do that? What will he be doing in the meantime? Daydreaming about Lois? Not to mention, J'onn with his own fantastic speed-not to mention the speed of thought- won't TP Radd before he does something like that?

You really do think this is a one sided fight, where all the DC characters are just little practice dummies who will stand still while their opponents do whatever they want to do, don't you?

C'mon, man...

Sentry can probably kill The Man Of Steel with energy projection,

I never said that lol.

I didn't say you did. "LOL".

Also none of the example you showcassed are Superman tanking he was clearly injured by all of them lol.

In one instance, Superman had his normal durability stripped away by prolonged exposure to blistering red sun radiation, yet he still withstood a supernova '50 times bigger than Kepler's supernova". Showing some pain while withstanding an enormous trauma like that even when you are depowered is no "shame".

"LOL".

Some of those feats are absorbing sunlight which is what he does lol.

All of those feats did not involve Supes absorbing normal sunlight.

"LOL".

Absorbing a half a galaxy destroying amount of ANTI sun could have ripped apart a solar absorber like Kal.

"LOL".

Also nobody hear fires solar radiation with the exception of Sentry but that was only one occasion in which Iron Man told him to charge him with solar radation.

So what? That doesn't change that all of Superman's durability feats show he can take anything Sentry dishes out.

BATTLE FIELD REMOVAL-(B) If all else fails, Kal can BFR Sentry into the Phantom Zone, or, while giving him planet smashing punishment on the way there, super speed rush him onto the Source Wall.

Ummmm. Firstly LOL.

Constantly saying "LOL" does not a rebuttal make.

Second Sentry can tank planet smashing treatment,

Sentry's battle with the much, much slower WWHulk shows Sentry can be beaten to a pulp and overwhelmed, too. If a slow brick like Banner can do that to Sentry, the super fast Superman can do much worse to him

third just no not happening.

Your simply saying "Nuh Uuhhh!" does not a rebuttal make.

Saying this is the equivalent of saying Wally West can bFR Galactus into the speed force

Actually, it's nothing like that, as the power gap between Superman and Sentry is waaaaaaaay less than Wally West Flash and Galactus.

Sentry is on Galactus' level, now?

SMH.

You are so in denial, you just say "Nuh Uhhhhhhhh!" without even thinking things through. Sentry is not so much more '"special" than Darkseid's abstract form or an omniverse threatening planet that he could resist what those beings could not.

For the umpteenth time-"because you say so" is not an acceptable reason why not.

Superman can casually smash meteors-with one shot-big enough to destroy the Earth http://i.imgur.com/b6ISW3b.jpg which means, if Supes can easily smash something that can smash a planet, he can smash a planet itself, and his plowing through those super durable Imperiex Proves is a lot more impressive than overpowering Absorbing Man.

meteors that can oneshot the planet does not mean they are the size of planets.

They don't have to be the size of a planet to destroy them. they just have to be dense enough, which they were. Willfully ignoring what the very story says-that the meteor was going to destroy the planet-doesn't change the fact that it was.

Where did you get the idea that just denying things was legitimately refuting anything?

A meteor 60 miles in diamater can wipe out all Human life on the planet.

Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand

I explained above how actually, Sentry and/or Surfer managing to matter manipulate J'onn and Shazam is not a sure thing.

K you made up some theory that Surfer might not be able to do that to Shazam cause he has magical properties.

I didn't "make up" anything, evidence suggests it. And considering some of the things you stated in your last post, I'd be careful accusing others of "making up" things. Just sayin'.

What bout MMH? And what happened to Sentry?

I honestly don't understand what you're asking here. What about MMH? "What happened to Sentry"? What does that mean?

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#6  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@kingant27: "LOL" at you just making claims without legitimately refuting a single thing I stated, or backing up what you say with anything else other than because you say so.

"LOL".

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#7  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@mnm__eminem:

Well for one, Martian Manhunter and Shazam have no counters to Sentry and Surfer's molecule manipulation.

,(A) Captain Marvel-given that Radd has many incidents of having a hard time against magical opponents including Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Dr. Strange and more (even Galuctus, who has much more Power Cosmic has publicly expressed his disdain for it because of what it's unpredictable qualities have done to him in fights) and (B) Batson's durability feats include going toe to toe with opponents with the durability feats of Wonder Woman and Superman, showing he is on par with them (in some of his fights with Kal, he even no showed blows Supes threw); withstanding several assaults from an enraged, unleashed Spectre (he soon got an amp from Enchantress that directed magic from multiple sorcerers and even millions of every day people to Cap, which enabled him to last longer, but to hold out initially is impressive) and, because of his magic endowed body, enduring a tesseract bomb that his JLA team mates-even Superman-might not have survived http://i.imgur.com/CdUkPQv.jpg.

---it's not a sure thing Surfer's matter manipulation would work on Shazam, for sure, and, given Batson's combat speed, Radd would even get the chance to try that (there would be two people in such a battle; you don't think Shazam is going to stand still with his arms at his sides, a dull look, a slack jaw, and just let Radd do whatever he wants to do to him, do you?)

Because of Shazam's magic, combat speed, and striking power, this battle would appear to be anyone's game, too.

Well, it a sure thing Radd can beat the Martian!

A possibility? Absolutely. A "sure thing"? Well-

J'onn J'onzz legitimately has the combat speed, strength and striking power to possibly KO Radd; can phase to avoid all his attacks; and has such great molecular control of his body he can regenerate from being a stain on the wall, or being obliterated to the point that only his arm was left.

And most importantly:

J'onn's TP feats of of effectively breaking his way through the barriers that protect the minds of of gods, demons, cosmic entities, reality warpers, sorcerers regardless of how strong their defenses are and other powerful telepaths speaks for itself-

the Martian has feats like mentally shielding himself and the minds of his friends as well as operating in spans of picoseconds while unconsciously tracking a Flash through multiple timelines. His telepathy has enabled him scan, influence, or use every mind on Earth at least three times (including in this situation against D'Kay'D'Raz https://imgur.com/a/Zlt3G ), keep his entire Martian race of reaching the afterlife subconsciously (it's difficult enough to keep a planet of regular people from doing what they want to do, much less a planet full of telepaths), achieve the accomplishment of breaching the Spectre's mind-not through a mortal host, but the actual Spectre-more than once, gather all thoughts throughout the DC Universe to shield against Solaris, and enter the Overmind of Heaven---as far as I know, a feat that, besides J'onn has only been accomplished by the omnipotent Great Evil Beast---the dark equivalent of the Presence.

Surfer in no way has TP resistance soooo much more "special" than those situations that he-for sure-could resist the Martian.

So, just like in battle with Superman and Shazam, but for different reasons-primarily J'onn's superlative TP-a Surfer/Manhunter clash is anybody's game.

Stronger than a Superman that has the strength to resist Black Holes

A really high-end feat for Supes, type of strength he showcases practically never. Also, Sentry was grappling with the collective who were destroying moons by grappling. He also destroys planets with energy output, and was strong enough to tear Doctor Doom's armor apart. Same armor strong enough to swat Mjlinor and stalemate a pissed off Hulk.

I showed multiple feats of Superman resisting Black Holes with more on standby, so please don't try the "that's high end" nonsense to lowball Superman. And none of the stuff you mention for Sentry is better than Superman's feats.

hen flew from another universe to our solar system for 60 days straight, enduring the vacuum, pressure, and several types of lethal radiations without a solar recharge, for good measure

Nice endurance feat, not a strength one though. Also flying through space is nothing for anyone here.

It requires strength as well as endurance to perform those feats

who tore through Imperiex Probes so durable they withstood Darkseid's Omega beams and Poseidon's trident for an extended amount of time, and who an entire army of "solar converted" Daxamites could not put a single dent into a Probe.

You really think Superman hitting harder than Darkseid's omega beams is not PIS?

As mentioned the Probes resisted it for awhile, but they eventually were destroyed by the Omega Beams; Superman was blood lusted, and had just gone through training to unlock the mental barriers he puts on himself to make sure he doesn't hurt and even terminate anyone. Not to mention, Superman has shown that his body is dense enough to withstand the Omega Beams on multiple occasions---so that same body doing something on par with the beams is really not that far fetched. So, no, it was not "PIS". A feat is not "PIS" just because you don't like it.

And with sun dips, The Man Of Steel has done things like increase his power to where he broke Darkseid's arm, pummeled him into semi consciousness, and super speed rushed him onto the Source Wall, and absorbed enough solar energy to increase his power to near Pre Crisis levels to beat back The Brainiac/Imperiex combo http://i.imgur.com/OUeJvML.jpg---Kal not only moved the planet Warworld, but against the counter force of rockets propelling the planet at faster than light speeds,as well.

If Superman is allowed to sundip then Surfer should be allowed to as well, which amps his abilities even more similar to Supes.

Wouldn't help Surfer, as Superman still has resisted everything he could do to him multiple times (which you can see if you read the previous post).

Sentry is not stronger than Superman. And Supes is better in every other way, as I will be happy to demonstrate

Sentry's energy output and consistent strength feats are better than Supes.

No, they are not:

Sentry can probably kill The Man Of Steel with energy projection,

Superman's "energy projection" tanking feats include absorbing half a galaxy destroying amount of anti sunlight from Megaddon http://imgur.com/a/aHR4Aand smiling afterwards, withstanding a supernova 50 times bigger than Keppler's supernova despite being in a Suneater and receiving blistering red sun radiation blasts at the time http://imgur.com/a/5fpnT; and except for saying "UUUH", tanked blasts from The Void Hound when this devastating, has no capacity to show mercy or "hold back" it's power construct was trying to terminate Kal

http://imgur.com/a/ZvaG2 (just a test run of it's blasts destroyed 10 Star Systems in one gohttp://i.imgur.com/2gREOpX.jpg)

and this kill shot by Gog on Superman

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff1.jpg.html

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff2.jpg.html

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff3.jpg.html

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff4.jpg.html

Kingdom Gog’s staff is very powerful, because, as it has the combined power of the Emerald Energy of the Guardians of the Universe, the cosmic energy of the Source, and the MAGICAL might of Shazam and Zeus http://i.imgur.com/qDBgsb3.jpg-- oops, to Gog's startled bafflement, Superman withstands the blast without a mark on him then rescues his various JLA and JSA colleagues---Sentry-for sure-has energy projection power above all of these incidents?

Also, the team cannot really put Sentry down who can keep reconstituting himself with molecule manipulation.

Superman can:

COUNTER VIBRATION-(A) If Superman can match the natural vibrational frequency of the abstract form of Darkseid that was infecting the multiverse, or on another occasion a large, other reality, omniverse threatening, molecularly unstable planet, counter vibrate them, then wipe them out of existence...

No Caption Provided

...it defies logic that he can't do the same to a not nearly as large, 6 foot or so humanoid

BATTLE FIELD REMOVAL-(B) If all else fails, Kal can BFR Sentry into the Phantom Zone, or, while giving him planet smashing punishment on the way there, super speed rush him onto the Source Wall.

Sentry's damage output was able to overpower Absorbing Man and destroy planets, I don't think Supes has feats that compare to this. Feel free to prove me wrong.

This is what happens when you refuse to read things, as I already covered this-

Superman can casually smash meteors-with one shot-big enough to destroy the Earth http://i.imgur.com/b6ISW3b.jpg which means, if Supes can easily smash something that can smash a planet, he can smash a planet itself, and his plowing through those super durable Imperiex Probes is a lot more impressive than overpowering Absorbing Man.

Martain Manhunter and Shazam get taken out quick with Sentry and Surfer's matter manipulation and there is no way Superman is soloing all 3

I explained above how actually, Sentry and/or Surfer managing to matter manipulate J'onn and Shazam is not a sure thing.

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#8  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@thedailybagel: Because, in the last month people who I couldn't even imagine being cordial with after past issues we had have surprisingly apologized to me, and we have been able to converse in a reasonable fashion-even when we disagree (so far, at least) I'm actually going to give a shot of being able to do the same with even you.

The last few weeks have shown me that anything is possible, so...

Void defeated multiple super powered characters at once

This list of team busting "regular" Superman has done-

The Titans, The Maximums, The Fearsome Five, The Elite, The Hoards of Darkseid (which included Kaliback, Infinity Man, Amazing Grace, The Female Furies, and more) then faced Darkseid himself, and a JLA team that included Wally West Flash, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Kyle Rayner Green Lantern, and Orion (though he was hurt the League was willing to go this far, Superman even defied Kyle Rayner shoving a chunk of Kryptonite in his face)

-as impressive as it is, was not done by Superboy Prime; it was done by "regular" Superman. Prime's feats-incredibly-are, impossibly, even better as I will display shortly.

Void "casually" breaking Hulk's bones-no matter which version of him you use, I don't know of any Hulk who has the following durability feats:

Superman's durability is so stellar, he can endure an amazing amount of red sun radiation while inside a Sun Eater and endure asupernova fifty times bigger than Keppler's supernova at the same timehttp://imgur.com/a/5fpnT ; absorb the half a galaxy destroying ANTI sun energy from Megaddon and be SMILING afterwards https://imgur.com/a/aHR4A , except for saying "UUUHH" tank the "destroy 10 Star Systems in one go" blasts of the Void Hound, a construct that doesn't have the capacity to show mercy, or to "hold back" it's power http://imgur.com/a/ZvaG2 (just a test run of it's blasts, when this nefarious nightmare wasn't even trying, destroyed 10 Star Systems in one go http://i.imgur.com/2gREOpX.jpg

and this kill shot by Gog on Superman

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff1.jpg.html

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff2.jpg.html

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff3.jpg.html

http://s738.photobucket.com/user/PhilosophiaKMC/media/GogStaff4.jpg.html

Kingdom Gog’s staff is very powerful, because, as it has the combined power of the Emerald Energy of the Guardians of the Universe, the cosmic energy of the Source, and the MAGICAL might of Shazam and Zeus http://i.imgur.com/qDBgsb3.jpg-- oops, to Gog's startled bafflement, Superman withstands the blast without a mark on him then rescues his various JLA and JSA colleagues.

Superman has the strength and durability to resist Black Holes https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111200299/4436760-1724815-1340779_154613_lightspeed2vm5_super.jpg and https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111183975/5075682-7969174004-62708.jpg and on another occasion, https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-23e4d8a0cfb64119b9652f54233d79d4-c- then flew from another universe to our solar system for 60 days straight, enduring the vacuum, pressure, and several types of lethal radiations without a solar recharge, for good measure https://i.stack.imgur.com/cxwbw.jpg and even hold the crushing entropy of a black hole http://i.imgur.com/A9qHb7u.jpg powerful enough to destroy the solar system according to the JLA's sophisticated instrumentation http://i.imgur.com/GGrpYL0.jpgin the palm of his hand-to hold in that much power for even asecond without getting torn apart, much less as long as Kal did is an unfathomable display of power

With all the above in mind, I doubt Superman would be as easily crushed-if at all-by Void; he has the durability to take the pressure, the strength to power out of Void's grip---or he could vibrate to intangibility and let Void's tendrils slip harmlessly through him (the way he did in Superman issue 175 which rendered Doomsday's punches, flame breath, and eyeball energy blasts useless,

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or Mongul's punches

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and how he did in Superman issue 170 which rendered Mogul's and Mongal's combined energy blasts ineffective).

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So, Superman has many options that Hulk (and many of the other heroes, for that matter) don't have.

Another time, a serious Superman, after training with Mongul to break through the mental blocks that makes him hold back his power, was tearing through multiple team busting Imperiex Probes; these constructs were powered by the Big Bang, and were durable enough to withstand the God tier mystic blasts of Neptune's trident and Darkseid's Omega Beams for extended periods of time, and an army of solar amped Daxamites (aliens similar to Kryptonians) couldn't put a dent in them. Yet, Supes (along with Doomsday) was plowing through them like nothing

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And remember, this is just "regular" Superman. We haven't even gotten to Superboy Prime yet.

(B) If Superman has had a sun dip, which increases his power to the point that he can blitz Darkseid, pummel him to near unconsciousness, break his freakin' arm https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/109250/2182952-7.jpg then super speed his battered body onto the Source Wall https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8d/Source_Wall.jpg/300px-Source_Wall ,or increase his power to near Pre Crisis levels to beat back The Brainiac/Imperiex combo http://i.imgur.com/OUeJvML.jpg---Kal not only moved the planet Warworld, but against the counter force of rockets propelling the planet at faster than light speeds,as well (Hulk couldn't do anything like that) and

(C) When Sentry defeated Void in this fight https://imgur.com/a/2oLjQ it required no other heroes, just Sentry by himself, with Bob eventually beating Void by throwing him into the sun---

---something Superman can easily do (the sun would only empower Kal while he did this, as the examples just mentioned in this post vividly illustrate).

Sentry defeated Void in a way even regular Supes can, much less Prime, and the way Sentry did it empowers the Kryptonians.

Now as for Prime, he has shown so much unfathomable power he has taken on the combined force of the Green Lantern Corps and the JLA on one occasion, and the combined force of Superman, Supergirl, Powergirl, Krypto, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Alan Scott Green Lantern, Metamorpho and more (while depowered by a large amount at the time) withstood the simultaneous attacks of multiple beings on Surfer's level dog piling on him, he has taken the entire planet's super beings of Earth 15 out, Prime is a being who an ION empowered Green Lantern couldn't beat (the Ion Entity is a being of unlimited power that normally resides in the OA power battery, and keeps the limitless power of the fear entity Parallax that resides there in check as well. When the entity bonds with a human host, it makes them immeasurably powerful (as it did for Kyle Rayner, and similar to the way its opposite number Parallax has made Hal Jordan and Sinestro). Sodam Yat was empowered with the Ion Entity, displayed seemingly limitless powers---

and Prime defeated him)

who even a Guardian Of The Universe detonating his full power on Prime (taking the Guardian out in the process) didn't destroy the kid, whom even the Time Trapper-who turned out to be a futuristic version of Prime-being struck by the kid, causing a chronal time anomaly that appeared to, and should have wiped Prime from existence, but Prime survived even this---

---and Prime hits hard enough to alter history, shatter the 5th dimension, and burst out of the Phantom Zone (he is one of only the very few to escape from there with no outside help)---

---therefore there;s a question of whether Void can survive, much less beat Prime.

Regular Superman could beat Void.

Superboy Prime would destroy him.

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#9  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@mnm__eminem: Sigh.

(A) If you don't read, then you can't claim to have any counters for what I say

(B) I didn't say you claimed Surfer could solo, or name called, etc.---I was copying the type of things some do in Superman/Surfer debates, and answering such claims with multiple feats Superman has performed that counter those claims

(C) Those things were "copy and pasted" from ME; They are feats and information I have posted previously.

(D) The team has a counter for everything team 2 can dish at them,

The same can said for team 1, which makes the claim team 1 can "causally" beat team 2 incorrect

I would say physically Sentry is stronger than Supes as well based on more consistent feats like tearing Doom's armor, Easily overpowering Ares and Terrax, and matching people who blow up moons from merely grappling.

Oh, yeah? Let's put that to the test-

Let's see, based on what people have stated, how "regular" Rebirth Superman (he is a combo of Post Crisis and N52 Supes) would fare against good 'ol Bob:

Sentry is stronger than Superman,

Stronger than a Superman that is able to bench press the weight of the Earth for five days straight without a solar recharge

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has the strength to resist Black Holes https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111200299/4436760-1724815-1340779_154613_lightspeed2vm5_super.jpg and https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111183975/5075682-7969174004-62708.jpg and on another occasion, https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-23e4d8a0cfb64119b9652f54233d79d4-c- then flew from another universe to our solar system for 60 days straight, enduring the vacuum, pressure, and several types of lethal radiations without a solar recharge, for good measure https://i.stack.imgur.com/cxwbw.jpg and even hold the crushing entropy of a black hole http://i.imgur.com/A9qHb7u.jpg powerful enough to destroy the solar system according to the JLA's sophisticated instrumentation http://i.imgur.com/GGrpYL0.jpgin the palm of his hand-to hold in that much power for even seconds without getting torn apart, much less as long as Kal did is an unfathomable display of power, and smash meteors-with one shot-big enough to destroy the Earth http://i.imgur.com/b6ISW3b.jpg meaning, if Kal can smash something that was going to smash a planet, he can smash a planet itself; and who tore through Imperiex Probes so durable they withstood Darkseid's Omega beams and Poseidon's trident for an extended amount of time, and who an entire army of "solar converted" Daxamites-aliens similar in power to Kryptonians-could not put a single dent into a Probe.

Really.

And with sun dips, The Man Of Steel has done things like increase his power to where he broke Darkseid's arm, pummeled him into semi consciousness, and super speed rushed him onto the Source Wall, and absorbed enough solar energy to increase his power to near Pre Crisis levels to beat back The Brainiac/Imperiex combo http://i.imgur.com/OUeJvML.jpg---Kal not only moved the planet Warworld around like a tinker toy, but against the counter force of rockets propelling the planet at faster than light speeds, as well

Sentry is not stronger than Superman. And Supes is better in every other way, as I will be happy to demonstrate-

unless, of course you refuse to read how because you don't want to concede that point...

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#10  Edited By TheOneWhoKnows

@mnm__eminem:

Take Surfer against Superman. Radd would instantly matter manipulate Superman. Battle over.

Umm-that is not necessarily true; when it comes to Superman facing matter manipulation-

TRANSMUTATION/MOLECULAR MANIPULATION-Superman has withstood his molecules being transformed by mega powerful opponents such as the husband and wife team of Sodom and Gamorra http://imgur.com/a/eX4IS Skyhook http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/81805/1686017-supestransmutation.jpgwho was empowered by Blaze, a Death Goddess powerful enough to challenge Neron for control of The Nether Realms and WIN; Disciple, who was powered by several Elder Gods, who matter manipulated humanity into a prehistoric state on a planetary scale, and-though he altered the bodies/molecules of of the JLA-including Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Kyle Rayner Green Lantern-Kal tanked his efforts, smiled, said "Is that the best you got?" then snatched his staffhttp://imgur.com/a/JvgnY; Superman resisted someone matter manipulating a big 'ol hole in his body https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1066951 and he immediately pimp slapped the dude for his effrontery https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1066950 ; and Darkseid during the "Legends" mini series (who's Omega Effect was attuned to Superman's exact molecular structure, yet Kal fought back against this)http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45351/2350861-1066461_1183yv_super.jpg (and here is the rarely seen next scene where Supes immediately hits Darkseid back (Superman states that Kryptonite is a worse feeling)

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There's more on stand by, but the above examples are MORE than enough to prove the point. I just don't see Surfer's powers being SOOO much more "special" than those beings that he could-FOR SURE- achieve what they could not.

Oh. Well, Radd would just drain Kal's solar energy. The Man Of Steel would be toast, then.

Indeed. Wait, what's this---

DRAINING-there is no reason why Kal couldn't re absorb his own solar energy back from Radd. Since this is one of the ways Radd's powers work: As revealed in the "Annihilation" story arc, The Surfer's skin is designed to absorb various energies from beta particles to light. He is constantly being charged from hundreds of nearby stars and energies from distant galaxies. He can change this absorption into reflection if he chooses ---and this is how Superman's powers work: Superman can also absorb solar energies of other class stars such as white stars and also when he absorbed the solar energies of a blue star that increased his abilities to a higher degree and gave him additional abilities. The light of dwarf stars, pulsars, and quasars also grants Superman different abilities---- in Surfer's case it is highly doubtful Supes can be drained by him, since as he's doing it Kal will be absorbing that energy, and any star energy Surfer is casually absorbing, right back from him. Even the most miniscule amount or strain of heat/solar energy can be drained by Supes from a person (like Rampage, and this is the WEAKER JOHN BYRNE version of Kal)

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or Megaddon http://imgur.com/a/aHR4A or thing http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/60473/1750252-1311323_electricalcharge_super.jpg or when Superman sun dipped and absorbed enough solar energy to increase his power to near Pre Crisis levels to beat back The Brainiac/Imperiex combo http://i.imgur.com/OUeJvML.jpg-Superman became powerful enough to move the planet War World around like it was nothing.

So given the above examples it simply defies logic to claim Superman, who drained-fairly quickly-a half a galaxy destroyingamount of anti sunlight from Megaddon will have much trouble reabsorbing his own solar energy back from Radd, probably in mid transfer.

The facts above, along with Supes surviving draining from Parasite (who can drain any form of energy, and can drain people down to their DNA and become them) make it clear that "draining" Superman is not a sure thing. Superman NATURALLY, CASUALLY absorbs all kinds of solar energy not just from the sun, but from neighboring stars, quasars, dwarf stars, even the secondary solar energy found in the Earth and the photosynthesis solar energy stored in plants---therefore Radd really has no way to prevent Superman re absorbing his own solar energy back-or even casually soaking up the star energy that Radd casually absorbs. Superman can literally absorb solar energy just by standing next to Surfer.

The above would seem to indicate draining Superman is not so easily achieved, after all.

Okay then, Radd will just sic a Red Sun on him! HA!

Yes, of course. Red Sun gets involved, it's immediately over!

Well, except---

RED SUN-that is NOT an insta/cinch win over Kal. Someone that can endure this amount of red sun radiation while inside a Sun Eater and endure a supernova fifty times bigger than Keppler's supernova at the same timehttp://imgur.com/a/5fpnT; in the "Krypton Returns" story line, at one point go back in time and stay under a red sun, but not have his powers INSTANTLY evaporate and even after being there for quite awhile still maintain a lot of power (using his heat vision to power engines that stop an exact replica of Krypton from falling into its sun, which at this time, Krypton was said to have approximately 16 times the mass of Earth); in the 'Final Night' story line, Superman effectively used up his entire store of energy (as he had no sun to recharge him) and that period was at least weeks long; or, at the closing of the Infinite Crisis mini series fly through an entire red sun (and onto a planet laced with kryptonite for good measure)and still keep going is not going to-for sure-be instantly dropped by Radd. Long before Kal got to a diminished capacity he would fight back against Radd (he is certainly not going to just stand like a statue and do nothing in the meantime).

What was I thinking---Kryptonite will take out the Kryptonian! There you go---Kryptonite always works!!

Well---actually---

KRYPTONITE- A) Since STRICTLY, ONLY Kryptonite from Superman's Earth One universe affects him, and/or a person STRICTLY, ONLY from Superman's Earth One universe can obtain/create the proper type, Surfer won't be able to utilize Kryptonite (this is true of all Supermen, Kryptonite has to be from their particular universe to harm them

No Caption Provided

(B) Even in the "combined" universe that is Comic Vine, there is no proof that Zenn-La, where Radd is from, is in the Earth One universe-it could be in Earth 2, the Apokolips Universe, or anywhere so STILL no go (C) Foreshadowing his eventual Kingdom Come Era virtual immunity from it, Kal has resisted Kryptonite more and more in recent years, still going after taking Metallo's Kryptonite Bomb followed by lingering Kryptonite radiation clouds and before that, despite being covered in Metallo's Kryptonite dust, defeating him and the rest of The Anti Kryptonian Squad (whose membership included Nuklon, Mongul, and Bizarro, all Superman level foes) (D) speaking of Metallo, even if Radd managed to miraculously create or obtain the correct kind, The Man Of Steel regularly out maneuvers, withstands, and defeats him,The Kryptonite Man, and Titano The Giant Ape that emits Kryptonite-three opponents who are ALL ABOUT Kryptonite attacks, thus all of these factors show using that tactic against him is NOT a sure thing,

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and (E) Superman , since he uses combat speed a lot better and more often than Surfer, most likely speed blitzes Radd BEFORE he thinks to use Kryptonite, and KO's him. Superman has nanosecond https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/3282457-7363874695-26303.jpg , fraction of a nanosecond http://imgur.com/a/Kizn3 , attosecond, http://www.geeksaresexy.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/sm_709_dylux_-9-copy-e1300679300858.jpghttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3556932-1976765855-26290.jpg-this catching Barry Allen Flash incident-where Barry was moving so fast he was, quote, "running faster than time" and warping reality-was confirmed as an attosecond feat by the DC sanctioned writer of the story Chris Roberson

faster than teleportation (Superman flew from Pluto , back to Earth in the same amount of time, or faster , than the Outlaws were able to teleport back to earth. That is 4.67 billion miles , in seconds, and Supes did this despite the fact he had to first work around Tamaranian cloaking tech designed to hide them from him)

https://i.stack.imgur.com/hRZQI.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/3126260-2468752429-31002.jpg

https://i.stack.imgur.com/TYrkI.jp and faster than advanced alien thought speed http://imgur.com/a/bDvt6

Since multiple characters-many who are weaker, slower, or BOTH than Kal have used physical force to hurt or even KO Surfer (including The Thing, The Rhino, Namor, The Hulk, Thor, Vranx, a Doombot, Ikon The Space Knight, Beta Ray Bill (with a ONE SHOT), The Runner, and (compared to Superman) slow as molasses Thanos. So there is no logical reason (many of Comic Vine's unblinking, unthinking devotion to the character doesn't count) why Superman couldn't do AT LEAST as well as those characters did; Radd being overwhelmed by Runner's combat speed and striking power https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111219005/5153991-3768145-6178755043-runne.jpg and https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/38359/1317626-1237340_runner_1_super.jpg and https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/38359/1317627-1237342_runner_2_super.jpg

is a blue print for how a Superman/Surfer could possibly go (nowhere in any dialogue circle, thought bubble, or narration box does it say that Runner was moving at combat speeds (not travel-combat) during his battle with Radd that Supes can't match).

Umm-Telepathy attacks?

TP-The following scans and links are Superman, in order, resisting Dominus http://i.imgur.com/2GnY2dp.jpg;

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Martian Manhunter on at least three occasions, including the above incident (note how a shocked Jonn' states that Supes, quote, "forced me out" of Kal's mind-there are few beings who could even momentarily STALL the Martian, much less do THAT); Braniac http://imgur.com/a/VCnVG (note how, despite Braniac amping up ever increasing "more power" in his TP assault, he is not able to take over Kal, ultimately destroying HIMSELF in his attempts); Maxwell Lord, even after several months of clandestine work, and finally having Supes under his control is not able to force Kal to kill http://i.imgur.com/Y1oio8F.jpg resists mind domination attacks from Neron;

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above, defies Eradicator (note how, as Superman resists Eradicator, he helpfully remembers several OTHER powerful TP's that he has resisted over the years

shortly after Kal soon uses his devastating heat vision to achieve victory);

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Eclipso in "Superman The Man Of Steel Annual I" 1"http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/3164188-1885471987-30567.jpg -Superman remarks afterwards that over the years he's built up resistance to telepathy; resists the simultaneous mental AND spiritual assault of "The Light Of Heaven" from Asmodel the Angel, which when effective results in instant madness http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/wonder-woman-vs-magneto-1714954/?page=5(post 209; click the "spoilers" icon, it's the third scan); and Superman resists the being known as Hfuhruhurr, or "Union" despite this adversary having TP derived from the power of countless stolen brains throughout the universe. Note how the shocked telepath shouts "Impossible! He's broken free" during their battle

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Superman soon goes on to beat Union up for his effrontery.

and resists the simultaneous mental AND spiritual assault of "The Light Of Heaven" from Asmodel the Angel, which when effective results in instant madness http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/wonder-woman-vs-magneto-1714954/?page=5 (post 209; please click the "spoilers" icon, it's the third scan).

There are many, Many, MANY more examples so while it has worked against Kal before, TP against Superman is NOT a "cinch win" for Norrin (unless someone wants to argue that Radd's TP is somehow more "special" than ALL those people I mentioned).

Ah, Surfer will blast Superman's overrated hide to Kingdom Come!

Yeah, that'll get him! Radd is a well know planet buster---Superman would have no chance of surviving that!

Ahem, except for-

Wait-don't tell me-

RAY BLASTS-since Kal's durability feats include the aforementioned supernova feat, absorbing the half a galaxy destroying ANTI sun energy from Megaddon and SMILING https://imgur.com/a/aHR4A, and, except for saying "UUUHH" tanking the "destroy 10 Star Systems in one go" blasts of the Void Hound, a construct that doesn't have the capacity to show mercy, or to "hold back" it's power http://imgur.com/a/ZvaG2 (just a test run of it's blasts destroyed 10 Star Systems in one go http://i.imgur.com/2gREOpX.jpg , I believe Surfer's blasts won't be a problem.

Not to mention, Supes, if he didn't want to be bothered, could vibrate to intangibility and let them pass harmlessly through him (the way he did in Superman issue 175 which rendered Doomsday's punches, flame breath, and eyeball energy blasts useless,

No Caption Provided

or Mongul's punches

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and how he did in Superman issue 170 which rendered Mogul's and Mongal's combined energy blasts ineffective).

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The above vividly illustrates that Superman can resist all of Radd's tactics

Not quite! The last strategy you mentioned Superman could use, intangibility-

Yes?

You forget that Surfer can phase to intangibility too! Supes can't touch him in that event. so at best, things would be a stalemate! Ha HA!

Uh, well---

No way---

Yes, way---

Going intangible won't help Radd-

Superman's heat vision can affect ghost like, or intangible opponents like here http://i.imgur.com/XtHpJwz.jpg and here, against The Weird, who can alter his body to phase, and/or achieve an intangible state http://i.imgur.com/nJM7Kp6.jpg And since Post Crisis Supes, due to the "Rebirth" story line, is now combined with the history, experiences, and abilities of N52 Superman---Kal can freeze intangible opponents with a flash freeze http://i.imgur.com/cqvteCC.jpg ; his breath is powerful enough to freeze his equal Bizarro in place http://i.imgur.com/HGLESCH.jpg

Coming up shortly is a description of just how powerful the heat vision can be, so the above is more evidence Superman can affect Surfer whether he is intangible or not (although, since the character has been physically affected by opponents many times, the point is moot).

Hmmm.

Grrrrrrrrr.

Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants---Superman has no way of really harming Surfer, even if he has shown resistance to Radd's tactics. So There!

Yeah, got me there.

You bet your *BLEEEP* I do! For instance, Norin could erect a force field around himself! Supes has no history of penetrating force fields!

That last thing you said---actually---

Oh, no...don't tell me...

Actually-

SILVER SURFER'S FORCE FIELD-If Surfer erected a force field, Superman has physically smashed force fields, such as Green Lantern force field constructs, by John Stewart

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and Kyle Rayner

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and his heat vision is powerful enough to disrupt and break through force fields with infinite event horizons...

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...The heat vision is even capable of repairing reality itself http://i.imgur.com/qa9CHtW.jpg more evidence Radd's force fields might be bypassed by Kal).

Okay, but how can Superman take out Surfer himself, though??

Well,

OVERWHELM SURFER WITH COMBAT SPEED AND PHYSICAL POWER-As noted earlier, statistically, Superman uses combat speed waaaay more often, and with better strategy than Radd (a user in another thread awhile back displayed over 80 examples where Kal used his speed and/or blitzed right off). And Supes has the strength and striking power ( can one shot smash a meteor big and dense enough to destroy the Earth http://i.imgur.com/b6ISW3b.jpg which, since Kal can smash something that can destroy a planet makes him a planet smasher) to KO Surfer before he can recover enough to fight back, or at least stun him long enough to do one of the following things:

COUNTER VIBRATION-(A) If Superman can match the natural vibrational frequency of the abstract form of Darkseid, or on another occasion a large, other reality, omniverse threatening, molecularly unstable planet, counter vibrate them, then wipe them out of existence...

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...it defies logic that he can't do the same to a not nearly as large, 6 foot or so humanoid

BATTLE FIELD REMOVAL-(B) If all else fails, Kal can BFR Surfer into the Phantom Zone, or, while giving him planet smashing punishment on the way there, super speed rush Radd onto the Source Wall.

So clearly, Superman can defeat Silver Surfer.

You know, I have to admit, I didn't think of that way---it's not so impossible for Superman to beat him. And if Radd beats Kal-which he absolutely can-it wouldn't be as easy as I thought! Anyone who sees this, they would have to admit the evidence shows that; and if they had a problem with it, I'm sure they would counter the points of the post, and not create silly gifs or memes, scoff without stating why, name call, make off topic remarks, or things of that nature that do nothing to refute what has been stated!

Well---

When you're ready-Surfer vs. Captain Marvel, then Surfer vs. Martian Manhunter.

Then, Sentry vs. them all as well.