@thelurker: They’re OP in comparison to the characters in the movies but they’re not as good when compared to all of the new canon. Their force potency is really great but their dueling ability isn’t as good.
Gotcha. So I guess they aren't OP enough in the force to make dueling useless, like Sideous vs Maul?
Luffy should take it, I think. At first I was going to give it to the 6, because their zoans should let them take enough punishment t outlast G4. But then I remembered that none of them really showed that they could take levels of punishment that high, save for Ulti and possibly X Drake. Page One could take some hits, but I think Snakeman could probably put him down for good pretty quickly.
So, we have seen Base Luffy clash with Doflamingo, fight with Katakuri, keep up with Kaido and Big Mom. Despite all this he got over powered by Ulti, a Flying Six.
Yes!! That's basically how feats work, dude! Ulti overpowered him!
The same Ulti that failed to one shot Nami and Usopp with a named attack.
All of the burden of proof is on you to show feats of how much of a glass cannon Usopp and Nami are. Last I checked Usopp was durable as heck since Part 1, and Nami is no scrub either. How much examples do you have of weak enemies 1 hit KOing them, where they are out cold? Specifically Usopp, who took the most punishment from Ulti. This isn't hard to understand.
Can you help make sense of the power scaling here? You hype up Base Luffy so much but then you follow up with "Ulti overpowered him."
It seems like everyone here can make sense of it, but you. This is simply a durability feat for Nami and Usopp. Something that both of them, especially Usopp has gotten lots of in the past. Durability ≠ Strength anyways, so I don't get what disqualifies Ulti's showing against Luffy in your mind. Basically you are saying "That's not how it is because I don't want it to be." In which case further debate is pointless.
or Base Luffy is inconsistent and Ulti overpowering him with her grip strength doesn't mean much.
That's literally what everybody is saying! How is Luffy inconsistent? All this shows is that it takes more to kill a determined Usopp and Nami then it does to mildly hurt a Pre-Advanced COC Luffy. Which is not some story breaking plothole you make it out to be. of the Strawhats are growing in character and strength. That's how it always has been.
Black Maria would get one shot by both Yamato and Big Mom and then wake up a couple minutes later thanks to her Ancient Zoan regen. Just like Ulti did.
Pure Headcanon! Once again "It is this way because I say it is." Which s a pointless stance to debate against. We have FEATS. We know What ALL of the Tobiroppo can do and what it takes to take them out. You have like negative proof of this claim. She was Not to downplay Robin, but no one can automatically compare any attack of hers to named attack Yamato or Big Mom's just because. Robin broke her spine/neck and now she's out for all intents and purposes.
IF she is up and in perfect battle condition by the very next chapter, then you can tell me I'm wrong. But even then shaking off Jacuzzi Clutch is far far beneath shaking off Yamato's Thunder Bagua and Big Mom's Maser Cannon.
Ulti is probably tankier due to her dinosaur Zoan so Black Maria would be unconscious longer.
None of which were a major problem for Robin who is far weaker and less durable. Ulti took hits from Luffy, Yamato and Zeus, and fire/ lightning from Prometheus and Hera. What is Maria going to do? Plus judging by Ulti's haki strength, her willpower is probably nothing to laugh at either, so the illusions working are iffy at best. Not to mention she may already be well aware of this ability, both of them being co-workers and all. But even if she was caught in an illusion then what? Get hit by a gifter that looks like a loved one of hers, then proceed to stomp all over them? Get punched by Black Maria's knuckle dusters, which she'll tank no problem?
I like Black Maria more than most of the other high ranking Beast Pirates we've seen, but she get's stomped here, barring some huge feat in the near future.
The above ranking is also complimented by the fact that Who's Who and Sasaki were the only ones competing for Queens position if he died. (Drake was hinted at being a contender too)
Not sure why getting one shot and getting back up due to regen is impressive. Every ancient zoan has insane endurance and regen so to me any other of the Flying Six could have recovered fast from getting knocked out.
Ulti failed to KO Nami and Usopp in one shit and was getting hurt by pre-Zeus Nami's lightning. She also had a hard time catching up to Komachiyo (Tamas dog pet).
So I can't really make any sense of your argument here, but t looks like @naronu and @jurrian09 pretty much covered what I would say. So, I'll just ask. Regardless of how unimpressed you are with base Luffy, what feats do you have to put any of the other Tobiroppo anywhere near him? We've seen what they can do and what it takes to put them down. None of them shown proof that they could over power base Luffy besides Ulti. This is the same base Luffy that was ON THE ROOF, for most of the fight before he discovered advanced Conquerer's Haki. The same Luffy that went through intense haki training in Udon. What has any other Tobiroppo, or specifically Black Maria do to put them on base Luffy's level?
With all that said, What has Black Maria done to compare to Yamato, who is currently figghting Kaido, of all people, or an enraged Big Mom? Because none of these two kept Ulti down. What does Black Maria have that compares to Yamato's Thunder Bagua or Big Mom's Maser Cannon? We can no longer use the excuse that al of the Flying Six are comparable in strength just because. We have clear undeniable showings on panel to judge them by.