TheIrishDoctor

@shootingnova: You're right. Totally screwed that up. Sorry.

Still doesn't change my opinion.

Archie comics. Sonic has moved so fast in his base form that he walked across the city of Mobius and had a full conversation with himself while the entire world looked completely still by his own perspective. And this isn't even close to his full speed. He's basically Wally West Flash in those comics except...more.

But yeah, comics are a separate continuity from the games and in the games he's never done that.

I think those were supposed to be two separate feats. As in, he's casually many times faster than light, AND he has toon force!

@theghostknight said:

@theirishdoctor said:

@ghostravage said:

@theirishdoctor: Pressure points are not meant to deliver all the user's strength into a weak point. Pressure point attacks are literally just applying pressure to some particular nerves of the body to either neutralize their mobility or cause high caliber pain.

That's...that's what I said. That's literally what I said, except that I didn't what the results of the pressure point strike is.

"The entire point of pressure point strikes is that you focus all of your force into a small point on your opponent's body that is focused to hit a nerve"

When I said "all of your force", I didn't mean all of the force that you are capable of using. I meant, all of the force that you are using for the pressure strike.

You have to be extremely precise with them. You have to hit specifically the nerve and not much else, other times every time someone punched Mr. Hyde in the forehead, it would active the same pressure point. You need to hit it with just the right amount of pressure hitting it in just the right way. That's how it works with Daredevil, Batman, Ty Lee, and everyone else who uses a similar concept in fiction. The entire function of armor is to dissipate the force of a blow over a wider-surface area for bludgeoning attacks, and stop piercing attacks in their tracks (one could argue that the pressure point strike is both at the same time).

I also never said that pressure points shouldn't work against really powerful guys. I said it shouldn't work if something is obstructing the pressure. Like armor or padding.

So again, by the rules established in the comics themselves about how pressure points work, a guy wearing a padded jacket should be heavily resistant to them. A guy wearing kevlar over the areas should be immune.

I'm not saying I don't believe it. if Daredevil has used it through armor then fine, I get that. I'm saying that the comics established their own rules and then broke them because they didn't understand their own rules.

Yeah. I'd like an issue number for that, if thats what your argument is truly based on

Until then, here's feats

I'm not arguing. I agree that Daredevil can do that. I agree that that is what the comics show. I am not and never have disputed that. I am only disputing the fact that they should be able to do it based on their own logic.

Comic issue? Your own scan shows exactly what I've been saying.

"I find the nerve cluster in the solar plexus of this guardian angel and squeeze. It's a move that can kill if too much pressure is applied. I fight the urge to twist a millimeter more to the right and instead release him."

The place where Daredevil punches the big armored brute (and yes, I realize that he is armored and I realize that it still works, I have agreed that it works, I'm just saying that the way they describe the technique should make it not work) is not exactly a hidden away place on the human body. How many times have characters been hit exactly there a dozen times before? The pressure point works because it is much, much more precise than a random punch that hits around that area and would still send pressure to that nerve cluster in the solar plexus. This means that either 1) even as little padding as your body's own muscle protects your nerve clusters and what Daredevil is doing is using his extreme preciseness to make his punch push around those muscles, or 2) the pressure has to hit that nerve cluster and that nerve cluster alone for it to be effective. Regardless of which of these scenarios is true, body armor would stop it from doing anything.

As I said, it DOESN'T do that in the comics, I undestand. But based on how Pressure Points are shown in the comics, as seen by that scan that you provided and many others, it should. Comics can break our world's logic all the time, and that's fine. But when they break their own logic, that's bad storytelling and it's bad for versus matchups because it makes it so that anyone can say "well I want it to work like this so therefore it works like this".

That's...that's what I said. That's literally what I said, except that I didn't what the results of the pressure point strike is.

"The entire point of pressure point strikes is that you focus all of your force into a small point on your opponent's body that is focused to hit a nerve"

When I said "all of your force", I didn't mean all of the force that you are capable of using. I meant, all of the force that you are using for the pressure strike.

You have to be extremely precise with them. You have to hit specifically the nerve and not much else, other times every time someone punched Mr. Hyde in the forehead, it would active the same pressure point. You need to hit it with just the right amount of pressure hitting it in just the right way. That's how it works with Daredevil, Batman, Ty Lee, and everyone else who uses a similar concept in fiction. The entire function of armor is to dissipate the force of a blow over a wider-surface area for bludgeoning attacks, and stop piercing attacks in their tracks (one could argue that the pressure point strike is both at the same time).

I also never said that pressure points shouldn't work against really powerful guys. I said it shouldn't work if something is obstructing the pressure. Like armor or padding.

So again, by the rules established in the comics themselves about how pressure points work, a guy wearing a padded jacket should be heavily resistant to them. A guy wearing kevlar over the areas should be immune.

I'm not saying I don't believe it. if Daredevil has used it through armor then fine, I get that. I'm saying that the comics established their own rules and then broke them because they didn't understand their own rules.

@just_banter: You're the second person who has said that. I watched KLK a long time ago and nothing that I remember seemed continent level, but I might be remembering incorrectly. Can someone post a scan or video or something?

@eternityx: Stronger and more durable? Sure, but that won't help him much if he can't touch Garfield and Garfield has dealt with enemies much stronger than himself in the past. Not saying that Tobey looses, but this is definitely not totally one-sided.

The black suit though...it's hard to quantify how much stronger that suit made Tobey.

@theghostknight: All of those things that you mention work by the rules established for the comic-book world. They might be ridiculous in our world, but, as you say, that's just comics. The pressure points thing is different because pressure points aren't really a thing in our world (you can punch a guy in areas that are weaker or where there is a nerve cluster, like in the armpit, but pressure points as comics treat them don't exist). They are an established comic thing that the comics explain work a certain way. So when the comic breaks how they work, they are not breaking OUR laws or rationality, they are breaking THEIR OWN laws of rationality. And that is a much worse sin as far as storytelling goes.

This fight quickly devolves into Valkorion and Thanaton vs Sidious. No one else comes close. And Thanaton only because he's a player character in the game. As to who wins? If you include feats from books and comics outside of the prequel trilogy, probably Sidious. If you don't, probably Valkorion and Thanaton.

@theghostknight: But it just doesn't make sense! I can buy that you can pressure point a superhuman. Even find weak points in armor. But hitting a pressure point through padded armor? That's dumb...and this is coming from a guy who loves comic ridiculousness.

I mean, pressure points as a whole concept is pretty iffy, but if you are going to assume that they work in your universe, at least make them work according to how you claim that they work.