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TheGrayGhost

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@thegrayghost said:

......NGU you are right these Thor fans are indeed special people

We should open up a school for educating them, especially with regards to basic science

Congratulations, you're talking about 'special people' to the SodamYat clone.

I don't even think you understand science, since you're the one here saying "Batman has reacted to FTL opponents, therefore reaction feats mean nothing" because that's totally scientifically reasonable.

I don't think you understand English . Either that or (more likely ) you didn't actually read the post.

Batman reacting to a FTL opponent is NOT a reaction feat is the entire point .Thats the crux of the argument . It's PIS . Same as Thor doing so unless ....logic applies differently to Thor ?

Here's where you give me a list of actual reaction. Feats Thor has pulled off other than the one microsecond feat, not related to tagging fast people. For example Surfer's reacted in microseconds at least thrice off the top of my head and nanoseconds at least twice .

And Thor's feats are....oh wait he caught a tank shell. That's totally a microsecond feat !

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#2  Edited By TheGrayGhost

@conner_wolf said:

@thegrayghost: You're right, that's not how I type that, it's how I type "I think you're an idiot and you are never going to listen to logic so I'm gonna leave" in a polite manner, but hey, since you didn't understand, I'm happy to give you a direct translation.

And I'll see you next time you try to use Batman's infinite PIS to argue why Thor can't be FTL, probably the dumbest argument I've ever heard on ComicVine. I can't believe someone can be so adamant that their insane idea is correct that they'll use the stupidity of one character, to say everything another character does must be equally stupid.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know you disliked Batman that much . How about Deathstroke ? Ben Grimn ? Nightwing ? Daredevil ? Spiderman ? Wolverine ? Despero ? Lobo ? Doom? Thanos ? Hulk ? Rulk ? Damian Wayne ?

Thats a pretty broad range of names across the spectrum that become FTL by your logic

Oh wait I forgot , that logic applies exclusively to Thor and spits out names like the ones listed if not applied so exclusively

My logic meanwhile tells me Flash, Superman, Zoom, Gladiator et all are the superpeed characters

Clearly I'm the one who needs to change my stance .....

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@royal_warrior: I haven't insulted you for days in fact this is my first interaction with you I believe and if I seem short it's only because other Thor fans have been posting similarly scientifically inaccurate rubbish throughout this thread

Basically electro's Lightning through metal while quite fast , is nowhere near lightspeed because *electrons* through metal don't move at lightspeed . " Electric current" as we perceive it, moves far far slower than lightspeed

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@never_give_up: @thegrayghost: just check out the electro scene from ASM2 obviously WiS but he still has a legit FTL feat

......NGU you are right these Thor fans are indeed special people

We should open up a school for educating them, especially with regards to basic science

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#5  Edited By TheGrayGhost

@conner_wolf said:

@thegrayghost: In that case, I'm very sorry I didn't feel the need to address your absolute dismissal of any and all proof against your point.

That's not how you type " I got totally rekt and have zero counters whatsoever to the arguments provided "

Heck if you actually read that shit instead of panicking upon seeing my name and the first few paragraphs of utter carnage , you will notice that at one point I outright ask *you* to make up your own mind on which point of view is more acceptable after providing the arguments for both

anyway this is an obvious waste of my time . Good day . See you in the next "Thor vs JLA" or "Thor vs Thanos " thread or something I guess

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#6  Edited By TheGrayGhost
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#7  Edited By TheGrayGhost

@royal_warrior: Superman ? This is Superman we are talking about ? Slower than movie SpiderMan ?

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@conner_wolf: I'm glad you addressed one argument out of a dozen points even though you then reverted to type by talking about nonsense not related to any of what I just posted while desperately trying to change the topic

I also know you didn't even read through the entire post carefully or even the bits addressed to you when the only part of the argument that you do address (lasers) was specifically exemplified in my argument by .....Captain America , the well known Sith Lord from Star Wars

Thumbs up for managing to provoke a reaction though . I make an effort to actually address each of your points with detailed arguments and you reply with this bullshit trying to nitpick what ...one line out of 10 points that you *thought* you might get away with ?

How annoying . Good day

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#9  Edited By TheGrayGhost

@samjackson:

And you still don't get it lmao. I'm not debating for Thor. I never even gave a stance on the topic in this thread. I literally can't make this any simpler..

1. I'm not debating Thor's speed, I could careless at proving his speed to you.

2. All I'm saying is Its faulty logic to say A character is downright slow because A character has no microsecond reaction feats. (And I think you know this but refuse to admit you were wrong).

3. Everything else including Silver Surfer, Gladiator and Luke Cage (lmao) are completely irrelevant to what is being discussed between you and I.

That's it...

Yes that's indeed it. Thank you for telling me Damian Wayne is FTL because of that one time he showed such reflexes . I'm glad you pointed out my error in assuming that Damian was not as fast as the Flash . He is , of course as fast or faster than the Flash, feats/consistency be damned . Rather , because of the one time he did so , he is as fast as the Flash , who's done it so many times through his career . Same with Thor.

Ah it was my mistake to assume feats actually mean anything . No, no of course they don't. Paucity and even absence of them has not stopped Thor from being as fast as the others noted in your book. Yes Thor has only one microsecond feat contradicted by decades of comics , but that's meaningless . In fact all microsecond feats are meaningless when you think about it

Batman's caught arrows so many times . Arrows are fast . Thus Batman is as fast as the Flash . Calling Batman slow *relative* to the Flash is as much of a mistake as calling Thor slow *relative* to the others (comment 41 where I start of by saying "compared to the surer")

I can only beg for forgiveness at this point . Clearly I've been saying Thor's slow because he does NOT have microsecond feats all along . Yup that's the only point I had been trying to make before you showed me the error of my ways . Yup I've been saying people who don't have microsecond feats are downright slow and not like I repeatedly mention "compared to the others beyond the microsecond range "

What faulty logic on my part . Clearly the word "compared" is meaningless . Clearly outliers are meaningless too, and Batman is as fast as the Flash and Thor is as fast as people who have consistently reacted in microseconds and beyond throughout their careers because consistency be damned

No, thankfully you got the main message from all that , which was clearly only

I'm saying is Its faulty logic to say A character is downright slow because A character has no microsecond reaction feats. (And I think you know this but refuse to admit you were wrong).

Sorry English no my first language so miscommunication bound 2 happen . Glad u managed to cut thru the bullshit and get da real msg . U so smart u managing to understand my real msg wen others failed 2. U da smartest .

@conner_wolfNo, I started off with an analogy, you compared Thor to Luke Cage, when you clearly didn't believe that, and I compared Superman to Spider-Man, even though I clearly don't believe that.

Do you now ?

Except he does have the feats. Who said you get to set the criteria for what constitutes as a proper speed feat? Nobody made you king of the speed feats, and how so convenient that the only things that count are things that Superman has done, but not Thor. You are clearly a biased party and you establishing what constitutes as a speed feat would be entirely unfair. That's like if I set the criteria for what counts as a durability feat and I say only quantifiable feats count, well shit, I guess that discounts 90% of sci-fi characters from having durability feats. You don't get to just decide what's a speed feat because it's convenient for your character to decide. A speed feat is just that, a speed feat. Saying one is better than another is bias towards a character who has more of those feats.

Yes I'm biased for claiming reacting in microseconds and nanoseconds and seeing the world around you as stationary and fighting through time itself at FTL speeds are speed feats when clearly the only speed feats are those of a lumbering brute fighting another lumbering brute with not even any indication of speed from the art and tagging fast people

Flash , Superman ? Gah these are tortoises compared to the true speedsters like Thor and Batman and the Blob

Yes, PIS exists, that's why we don't consider Captain America dodging lasers nanosecond level feats,

Yes it's not like lasers in fiction vary over speed like crazy and no one else considers them to lightspeed other than you to the point of at least one instance of Cap reacting to lasers having them noted to be later speed of sound blasts .

but tagging people, most certainly does count, especially when that person is bloodlusted.

Yes very good . Reminds me of the time Batman out reacted Wally possessed by Starro on a day he was claiming he could kill Batman in a nanosecond ....before Batman out reacted him

Wait, no. I have a better example - Superman's caught a speeding mind controlled Wally a couple of times , the second when he was bloodlusted for the kill. This makes no sense given Wally at this point casually travels through time merely by accelerating while Superman barely reaches lightspeed by accelerating , in fact out right faints from attempting to break the time barrier . Thus him tagging Wally, bloodlusted or not, is pis because he's shown himself incapable of being that fast....when not facing Wally

This is not some Hulk fanboy you are debating with a back-and-forth on "Naah same feats totally count for Hulk but totally don't for Thor!" You won't be getting any contradictions or favouritism from me

Feats are feats. By feats Hulk/Thor are what ...bullet timers ? Slightly above , at best . Superman is near lightspeed. Surfer, Wally etc are FTL (all in terms of reaction speed only)

Thor tagged Hermes while he was speeding towards him with a clothesline,

Batman's grabbed the time travelling FTL Impulse out of the air so fast he could only say "what just happened?"

And that's just one example out of dozens, with Slade being outright noted to be faster than Wally as he tags him being one of the highlights of that particular compilation

So yeah the speedster list is clearly Thor, Batman, Deathstroke etc etc and the slowpoke list is Flash, Superman etc etc

Amazing the kind of names your logic is throwing and the kind mine is ...

he's not just tagged,but blitzed a bloodlusted Gladiator,

Yes he's done so , notwithstanding that his first encounter with the Gladiator required the universe to be stopped in time for him to be not outright blitzed by Glads . Kallark straining under the time dilation using hyperspeed alone was able to match a Thor exempt from said dilation . In their next matchup Odinson was outright one-two blitzed by Gladiator in the absence of said dilation

In fact even the most liberal of interpretations will baulk at the idea that Thor "blitzed" Gladiator in the rematch . Matched him at best and did not get outright blitzed

So we are left with two options . Either the guy is as fast as Gladiator or Gladiator is so much faster that he requires a universal time dilation to even compete, in the absence of which he gets blitzed

So which is correct? The guy who interacts with people through universal time dilations while they move in their own separate time lines Zoom style , who crosses interstellar distances in hours in said time dilation, one powerful enough to have an untransformed Ben move around for a fortnight in his own timeline at superspeed such that the Shiar workers are statues to him throughout this time period , the guy who can look back and reflect upon his life and make a decision in the time a bullet moves across the city , who can react to punches in nanoseconds , whose *kid* is so fast he makes Quicksilver, the same guy Thor can't tag without an AoE , look like a statue , or the guy whose best non-speedster tagging feat is to catch bullets

I'll leave that to you

he's easily deflected a blitzing Hyperion,

Which one though?

easily deflected a blitzing Sentry,

Yeah Sentry isn't particularly FTL when his best *reaction* feat is catching a bullet fired on the other side of the room when the gun is held to the dude's temple

Even so given that goes well into hypersonic territory , that's a bit beyond Thor and Sentry getting jobbed out /forgetting how fast he is, sure

Or do you feel Slade Wilson is also FTL by the same logic ? Or again, does logic apply differently to Thor and other characters like your mate Sam here ?

he's reacted to a mental bolt from the phoenix force-the speed of thought is stupidly fast-

Speed of thought is roughly 30 m/s. Which while fast , isn't even anywhere close to the speed of even old school bullets . That's why people can't just dodge gunfire , they can barely process what happens after the trigger is pulled

Even ignoring that , the speed of thought =/= speed of the bolt . That's like saying the speed of the person aiming and pulling the trigger =speed of the bullet that comes out from said gun

he's reacted to his own hammer trying to kill him,

His hammer was moving how fast in the instance , you feel ? And based on what ?

he's blitzed Quicksilver multiple times,

When

he's thrown Spider-Man into space before he could react,

What rubbish . Spidey webbed his hammer and he chucked the hammer into space . Where does reactions even come into this ? Unless you are talking about some other instance

his speed is related to that of a comet which moves 70 km/s,

So.....a statement ? And Batman's a cyclone

he's easily blitzed Silver Surfer, who was using his speed in that fight,

Surfer who was explicitly holding back and your definition of a "blitz" is all kinds of hilarious .

That aside again, Batman's tagged Wally , Barry, Bart, Superman, Wonder Woman , Captain Marvel, various Martians etc etc list goes on

Bruce Wayne ,FTL then ? Or does again , logic apply differently to non-Thor characters ?

he's reacted to a meteor shower while his ship was moving about 120,000x the speed of light, etc...

What are you talking about ? The Gorr fight ? They were outside their ship for that and again, travel speed plus being in space where the chances of actually hitting an asteroid in the asteroid belt are 1 in a billion given how BIIIIGGGGG space is . It's the reason why Batman can follow objects moving at a fraction of lightspeed in space or indeed why we can follow heh....your comets as they pass across the night sky

He's also quite casually blocked lasers after they were fired with Jarnbjorn,

And how fast were those lasers Eh ?

and he has consistently blocked energy blasts with his hammer,

Again, we are going nowhere . Might as well say various force users are lightspeed because they block blaster bolts . Kylo Ren ? FTL

his speed is related to that of lightning,

Another statement , one that's often used as hyperbole for speed ....in the real word , much less comics

which moves about 1/3rd the speed of light,

Wut . The light in lightning travels at lightspeed (or rather less/some fraction in the atmisphere ) .the actual charged up electrons and whatnot that make up the actual "bolt" are much much slower assuming he has actually reacted to it and not a statement

he's punched Fenrir and Loki so fast that his fists were starting to smoke.

Was it actually noted to be because of his speed or was it something else

Hell, just for microsecond level feats, Thor has easily caught artillery shells,

Just like poor old TParker , you seem to have skipped education and common sense altogether, for example ....

tank shells, missiles, etc... out of the air when they were flying right towards him.

Tank shells are less than speed of sound , as are many missiles . But that's not even the problem

The problem is both of you seem to believe 0.001(ten to the power minus three ) seconds is a microsecond when in actuality .....this ...0.000001 (power minus 6) seconds is a microsecond

It's a shame that even when actually taken at face value it's still less (or rather more) than a nanosecond which is 0.000000001 (power minus 9) seconds

Your logic is flawed when Thor clearly demonstrates insanely fast movement speed, consistently.

None of what you showed is anything more than " Thor tags fast people and he is totally FTL but Batman isn't for some reason " or worse, " Thor catches tank shells , hence he can react in microseconds "

Flash isn't slow because he holds back, ya know, like most characters who get tagged by slower characters.

Holding back makes no difference whatsoever to the guy , who before he even reached lightspeed could feel a bullet reach his neck while he has no idea about it , inside a darkened hall (Flash doesn't have super vision powers remember ) have his superspeed kick in and then proceed to pluck bullets out of there. It makes no difference whatsoever when he speeds through unknown cities across the planet , without bumping into any person ,car, building anything , or getting "caught by surprise " or whatever before Heat Wave or Mirror Master or heh Batman manages to do just that

It makes no difference to say Superman who in the middle of a conversation with Lois in Rome hears a train falling off a bridge in Metropolis , has his superspeed kick in , has Lois turn into a statue relative to him and catches the train (which had already fallen before he had even changed clothes ) before it reaches the ground . It makes no difference to Superman when he can perceive FTL Flashes whizzing by as time comes to a stop and the multiverse ends around him . Or the Gladiator example , or Surfer managing to contemplate the consequences of failing to snatch the gauntlet for *two* issues in the space of Warlock saying " Are you ready Surfer?" Or whatever

That's just a couple of examples out of many . These people can react in nanoseconds and whatnot , consistently multiple times , not related to tagging fast people and have shown that their superspeed has no "On" switch to the point of Superman being *incapable* of getting hit by Batman or heh...the Joker even if he *wanted* to ( he spends a while contemplating whether he should roll with the blow of whatever as he was Clark at that time in the time the Joker swings his hammer)

The same Clark then gets pummelled in the face by a guy who Batman is shocked can even tag him (Despero ) , said guy is not unlike Thor in that he totally tags speedsters all the time , but then struggles against street levellers after and has not one non-fight related quantifiable speed feat to his name

So yes ,the same people who are shown multiple times to perceive people around them as statues regardless of whether they are "caught by surprise " or "holding back" or even under the pressure of the multiverse ending around them , then get tagged by people slower than Batman (who for some reason is totally not FTL unlike Thor regardless of them doing more or less the same things ) to drive the plot and ensure it lasts more than half a panel . How shocking . We have a term for this ....starts with P

@thor_parker82Thor has beaten Gladiator, Thor has beaten Surfer, Thor has beaten Hermes, Thor has beaten Hyperion and the list goes on and on, he may not be as fast as them but he is fast enough to keep up with them, he has never had any trouble tagging and/or reacting to faster opponents.

Just to again take the Gladiator example again , the guy needed the universe to be frozen in time to not outright blitz Thor . He left that for their next fight (only talking about Odinson here )

Thor then beat him in their third fight

I know you hate confronting logic of any sort that is not favourable to Thor, but still you have to admit that Gladiator completely forgot the fact the Thor is nothing to him without a universal time dilation , to the point of two shotting him in the freakin previous issue . No , ol Mohawk suddenly realised that the plot demanded Thor win (after sucker punching the dude as he was helping land a plane I might add ) and lose he did

Likewise say Surfer has reacted in nanoseconds and through time itself at speeds that KOd a dude at least as fast and durable as Thor (Durok) who was unaffected by either of their normal attacks to that point . He then completely forgets he is so fast Thor + foes faint from the mere speed of his board ....when facing Thor

The others have no speed feats putting them particularly above Thor

Humans react in miliseconds as a reflex, Iron Man made a decision and calculated exactly when to perform his attack, he saw the entire scenario, made a choice and acted on it, humans can´t do that, so your comparison is beyond ridiculous, stop reaching.

And here we see the term "shifting of goal posts" in action

Q:Did you claim Iron Man can react in microseconds ?

A:Yes you did

Q: Did you then post scans of IM reacting in milliseconds , simultaneously managing to prove your ignorance and desperation to have Thor win at any costs ?

A: Yes you did

Q: Did I say humans can react in milliseconds ,an actual true fact, to drive in the fact that feat is well off (by a thousand times in fact ) off microseconds , to the point of creeping *close* to real world human territory ?

A: Yes I did

Q: Did I say Iron Man is slower than /has about the same refelexes as Joe Human? Or even that the feat is something humans are capable of ?

A: Nah , I never did . Nice try though

Q: Is this yet another example of Thor tagging a fast dude, and hence that makes him fast regardless of his own speed feats?

A: yes it is

Q: Is the same logic now going to be extended to Batman and his various FTL taggings ?

A: Of course not . Logic applies differently for Thor !

You know it's actually pretty sad. Contrary to what poor befuddled Sam belivies I don't think Thor is nearly as slow as people make out by yeah he is a snail *compared* to Superman, who himself is a snail *compared* to say Zoom

While you guys wrap your heads around this astoundingly complex concept , I feel obliged to point out Thor's early JIM days especially had him moving at speeds beyond meh ...even Spiderman (though again , whether that's consistent or not is up for debate ) whether it be the trench feat or running across a park so fast people think it's a breeze . And that's good . Heck that's better than anything the Hulk's ever done for example .

That in no way means Thor gets anything but blitzed when facing even QS or Sentry because he simply does not have enough clear cut speed feats over 60 years to compete with someone who catches bullets held to temples on the other side of the room

It's the reason why we don't have endlessly long threads and arguments devoted to establishing Flash of Zoom's superpeed . You don't have to , because there are so many clear cut feats not related to merely tagging fast people without an explanation . That's why we don't have threads devoted to "debunking " say Wally getting tagged by Slade , or Batman or Nightwing . People already know it's PIS given the many , many speed feats on a scale of seeing the world around him as statues even when caught by surprise

If Thor had anything like even Wonder Woman's collection of speed feats , we wouldn't be having this discussion and you won't have so desperately been defending your favourite character

But he doesn't , and we are , and you are . Alone in this thread , defending your favourite character for no reason but because you desire him to win on an Internet forum

Which is a shame because you guys know I'm only giving an honest reply based on Thor's feats and not the character ,which is what a debate forum is about : impartial debating and not lies . So what if Thor loses , so what if Superman loses . Nearly every character is bound to lose at some point or the other but the least you can do is honestly state/post the feats

And deep down , you know it as well as I do , any *impartial* observer can tell you Thor is slow ( relative to Superman, relative to Sentry or whoever, just in case Sam once again manages to miss the point ) not because he gets tagged or tags fast people or catches shells or whatever , but because his feats , such as they are , do not even compare that well to the likes of Sentry and QS ,much less people like Superman and God forbid , the Flash

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@thegrayghost: 1. Don't be a twat

2. You still refuse to accept the point I made that people like you, and others, say Thor is slow because "It happens more often" yet refuse to accept that anyone else is slow for the same reason. It's hypocrisy and that's the end of it.

1. Says the guy who started off by calling me a hypocrite and saying I thought Thor=Luke despite well knowing that's not what I said

2. No, Thor is slow because he does not have speed feats, multiple ones establishing him anywhere close to say even...post crisis Superman , who has at least 20 microsecond + feats off the top of my head , in a smaller time period

Thor is slow because he simply does not have the feats , not because he gets tagged . That he then gets tagged , works against him further, but if he had the feats to offset this , it would be something . Instead all we get are scans of Thor tagging fast people, as if that means anything

If tagging fast people (who have their own speed feats unrelated to fights with other characters , for example Superman reacting in a nanosecond while carrying BraniaC) was the criterion , Slade Wilson would have been the fastest of them all

If getting tagged was the criterion for being called slow, Flash would have been the slowest of them all