TheFallenOne

Well all the best for you Viners. For all of my friends, allies and foes. Later one forgive me if i offended you. One friendly advice. All of you just cool down this is totaly unimportant thing. It's a silly fiction and all of us are giving their best at this. Debates became way exausting and complex which is resulting in debaters becoming way tired and usually agressive. This becomes like drug addiction well at least in my case :-))). So that's why i'm quiting it. But i had pleanty of good time here and i enjoyed debating with you guys. Anyway debating here was starting to become primary thing in my life and life isn't debating on who's stronger "Superman or Hulk" .

Again all best for all of you !!!

@CitizenBane: Thank you. And forgive if i was rude sometimes. Debates here started to be exausting, and that usually ends up in agressive behavior and agressive replies to such behavior.

@CitizenBane said:

@TheFallenOne: I could refute all your points, but again I'd rather not return to this thread. If you want to continue this debate at a later date, PM me.

Ok i'll take your word for it :-)))) . Well you and others DC fans, DC hardcore fans and DC fanboys(including Wildstorm fraction in this and not saying that your fanboy, ) won't encounter me anymore on Vine. This is officially my last day here. After today i'm quiting Vine. I'm not running from replies - ask Static. i asked him severla days ago if there was any way of shuting donw my acount so he can confimr my intentions.

@CitizenBane said:

@TheFallenOne: Fair enough. Legion wins.

Fair enough also.

@CitizenBane said:

1.He took a blast from the nigh-omnipotent Id's that wiped out a city block and knocked out Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern all at once. He was the only one still standing. He contained the Warlogog explosion in his hands and only suffered burns. He faced Asmodel, an angel and the leader of the Host of Heaven, and survived his scream, that disintegrates matter on the primal level. He was on fire and in agony for hours, but still had the strength to block a tree thrown at him by Wonder Woman and hit Wally West with it.

2.He's kept up with Flash and has even beaten him, albeit while being influenced by a drug. He's kept up with Superman. He's issued telepathic directions to Flash even when the latter was moving at many times the speed of light.

3.Already explained why his telepathy is superior to Xavier, Emma and Sentry's.

4.J'onn has defeated a Dr. Destiny who became nigh-omnipotent because of stealing the Materioptikon from Dream of the Endless. Sentry's never faced an opponent with that much power.

5.Why do you keep accusing everyone who argues against Marvel characters of having a bias? It's tiring.

6.If you feel like continuing this debate, please PM your reply to me. I don't feel like coming back to this thread.

1. Nigh omnipotent by powerscailing. Unqantifable feat. Contorl over molecules of his body. Totaly unnecessary

2. We don't know who fast Flash was going nor Superman. That doesn't count as speed feat.

3. YOu haven't post any evidances. Also to tell you about Maggedon. He didn't mind-rape the machinrey. He just entered it's mind and was alowed. Also Maggedon is not telepath. It doens't mindrape planets like you suggest. It influences hatred among population on certain planet. And so far it was doing only a planet by planet. And this instance can't be classified as legitimate feat.

4. dr. Destiny wasn't defeated by MM when he had DreamStone, what are you talking about ? Dreamstone was destroyed when Destiny used it againt dream

5. DC is way overratted here and i end up most of the times defending Marvel, since i'm for facts and not bias

6. I'm sorry for not PM'ing you. But i can't send PM for 3 days, i'm having some low signal troubles. Othe roption would be on the wall of your. But i also have the problems there since if i switch to the new tab text disapeares.

@CitizenBane said:

@TheFallenOne said:

Second Fractal was using tech from a Carrier to acomplish things ot which you refere. So it wasn't done by her own power. First scan you posted confirms that. She used Carriers ability to phase through Bleed in order to achive her goal. That alowes her to make ruptures in universal/dimensional barriers which was ending up in merging of 2 realities(which is confirmed by other scan you posted). So it wasn't flick of the finger multiversal manipulation like you claimed even with using Carrier's tech. If she didn't used any of carrier tech she wouldn't be able to achive any of that things on her own. So she isnt multiversal. Even with Carrier's shiftship ability (ability to pass through Bleed and go to another dimensions/universes) she can only effect dimensional/universal barriers- making holes in them( since her ability is to make a hole in reality but not on great level) and not effect the multiverse itself. Now if i go by your logic than i could say that Reed is multiversal level threat since he was able to recreated the multiverse with UN.

She used the Carrier to reach the Bleed. Even before she entered the carrier, she was rupturing the Bleed and pulling alternate universe forces in just by getting angry. Which is still a greater feat than anything the Elder Gods did. And sure, if Reed has the UN he's a multiversal threat. I'd have thought that was obvious.

Now you're twisting the facts. That was stated as 5 possible conclusion and was actually dismissed, since author recongnizes weakness to telepathy as legitime. Habib has been totaly depowered by Bendix using Jackson's powers so that makes him vurnable to psionics even more than Jeroen, since he was totaly stunned. On the other hand Legion is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jackson King in terms of telepathic powers. SO everything adressed.

That post states that there are only 2 instances of telepathy working on the Doctor. If you've read Prime, you'd know that Bendix created earthquakes and volcanic eruptions around the world to distract both the Doctor and Jenny. Habib being depowered by Bendix's TP is contrary to the story itself, since later on Habib broke Bendix's hold on Rose Tattoo and rewired her mind. And again, Legion's been controlled by the Shadow King.

Anyway i don't care if you change your opinion or not. I'm not gonna waste my time arguing with you, since it's obvious that you won't listen to anything. And you're twisting facts.

-__-

That's uncalled for.

before she used the Carrier she didn't raptured the Bleed itself(scans you posted confirm that). She only made holes in their reality which was alowing some tresspassing but couldn't result in merging of two universes. When she started rapturing Bleed thanks to the Carrier than it was implied that she will do something to multiverse. By your logic it would mean that he always has UN. Like you presented Jenny Fractal = to Jenny Fractacl using tech from Carrier to damage Bleed.

And as you said later, when Habib was prepared. BUt at first Bendix took him unprepared. And that was the whole point. Since unprepared Doc is weak against telepathic assault like normal human. Elder God had zero feats, but they were the supreme beings of Limbo. So they were powerful and by powerscailing should be above Jenny Fractal in this specific case, since she showed regular minor reality warper powers. And when she took acces to Carrier Doc didn't faced her. Not to mention that you included Fractal just because he along with rest of Authority fought her( and he didn't defeat her ). On the other hand you were using enemies which Legion fought and defeated.

@god_spawn said:

1/3 of a planet vs helicarrier sounds equal to me.

In instance with Void they first used uber powerful magical Norn stones to depower him. MM won't have them. And instance with Sentry he was at hi most unstable level at that time. So wa weakened greatly.

@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

1.Sorry but You have to prove both things about Mageddon Warhead - one that he can mindrape these planets (and how, because it is not always the same)

Prove what? It was a weapon created by the Old Gods to conquer the universe. Read JLA #37-41. He broke into Mageddon's mind and helped rescue Superman, while being thousands of miles away.

Fernus burning something isn't something that matters here.

Jeez, I didn't mean he literally burned it. The Guardians had designed it to be TP proof by coding it with the primal languages of the universe, but Fernus' TP was too much for it and the device broke down.

3.He attacked Hal-Spectre and sorry context doesn't make it that great feat. As when Moondragon did similar thing to Galactus.

Please explain to me how the context reduces the feat. I really don't get it. It seems pretty clear to me. J'onn invaded the Spectre's mind and forced him onto the astral plane. The Galactus feat is essentially pointless, since the Spectre is ridiculously more powerful than him.

4.Xavier used fear of whole Skrull's planet - that is clear planet level feat. Martian has similar (but only searching not using them). Xavier couldn't do a thing to Sentry, ergo planet level telepath is not enough.

J'onn channeled agony throughout the entire Appelexian army. He mindraped Adam by flooding him with the dread and despair of the dead Martian race and the fear of the human race. J'onn is far above planetary level. What's notable is that the Martian race had been dead for millenia, but J'onn was still able to channel all their memories.

5.No, J'ohn isn't above them, nothing was proven and Black Adam wasn't PIS. Sometimes telepaths simply aren't ready for mess that they see. Probably if Martian would expect that, he would be ready for that.

Yeah, he is. Adam was PIS, plain and simple. How can you honestly expect me to believe that someone who's fought Darkseid and the armies of Apokolips would find Black Adam's mind more horrifying? It makes zero sense. World War III was one giant puff piece for Adam. And like I said, he eventually lost when J'onn came back and mindraped him.

I wouldn't give my money that MM wasn't present in any comic since then (even his bios says something opposite). And if You can't prove that he was depower - he wasn't. Sentry didn't use any plot device. He simply first time used this power, which means that it is as powerfull as it was shown to be.

Then kindly point out to me a comic he's been in since then. And also explain to me how he lost, when even before Secret Invasion he was portrayed as far more powerful than he was in Dark Reign. Sentry would have been killed, but all of a sudden he conveniently grew a brand new powerset out of nowhere. Yup, sounds like a plot device to me.

7.This What If ? is canon, because Uatu wasn't thier Watcher and he was talking with Watcher from that Universe. And according to that comic, the same would happen if Void wouldn't kill Ares.

What on Earth are you talking about? What If's take place in alternate realities. That's always been the case. And each reality has it's own Watcher. If it didn't take place in the prime reality, it's not canon. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter what the What If said.

Also, regarding the Void and Siege: Who did he fight, really? The only real heavy hitters there were Thor and Loki. Ares isn't in their class. Contrast that with Fernus, who was effortlessly kicking the shit out of Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and Manitou Raven all at the same time. The Void spreads fear through it's infinitendrils? So does Fernus. He creates nightmares and illusions just by standing still. And you also have to take into account that the longer the fight proceeds, the more fear and despair is created in the minds of the people of Earth, which causes the spawning of more Burning Martians.

To sum up,

J'onn has better strength feats.

J'onn has better speed feats.

J'onn has better durability feats.

J'onn has better telepathy feats.

And then there's Fernus, who makes the entire JLA look like the Young Avengers. I don't know how anyone could possibly think Sentry wins this.

@higher_evolutionary said:

@czarny_samael666: and mm FAILED to mindrape bane lol and supergirl

And Sentry ran away crying (literally) when a Skrull called him a loser. He also FAILED to lift up a helicarrier without the help of Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man. Quoting low showings is fun, now I know why you do it.

Just to point. MM doens;'t have any durability feats which come close to Sentry's. Sentry has better speed feats. He is FTL, MM is relativistic. And i haven't seen MM flying D'kay from Mars to Sun nor i was told how much time it took. Sentry on the other hand flwonfrom Earth to Saturn before he finished saying NOOOOO. That's greater distance. And this post of your is full of bias. He is greater telepath than Xavier and Emma combined so that feat on his own + mindraping entire Earth. MM only has better strength feats, but Sentry has better detructive feats and has matched and overpowered opponents stronger than Martian like Thor and Hulk for exmaple in slug fest.

@Erik said:

I wonder why I keep getting PMs for this growing flame war.....

sorry i forgot to delete parts in whihc he quoted you. My bad it was unintentioned. If i wanted to include you i would do that like in previous post.