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texjones1993

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#1  Edited By texjones1993

Because I keep hearing Aang advocates say he has more feats I'd like to hear what feats you're referring to. I'm just saying, a lot of his feats were accomplished because of assistance, direction of another, or the avatar state. I'd also like to point out that his enemies weren't all difficult, as on not all of them were. Yes, he had his difficult few which were to be significant characters at the time such as Zuko, Azula and her team, The fire nation archers, "Sparky Sparky Boom Man," the Earth nation elite guard, and Ozai, but other than them can you really account for difficult enemies? As (((Prodigy))) stated numerous times before, which I don't know why you don't take the time to read since he/she took enough time to back their source, his enemies weren't all difficult, only an elite few. As for Korra, she has Tarlock, Pro-benders which are very good so please stop counting them out, Amon who is a blood bender who has perfected it's art enough to take bedning away, and an entire fleet of anti-bender chi blockers who were all using weapons. They're basically like Mei and Tei-Lee combined. You can say Tei-lee was a better chi-blocker if you want but the chi-blockers in LOK were very competent and beat a lot of master benders by use of stealth and guerilla tactics. Korra also had to fight advanced tanks that could take on multiple benders which were superior to just about all machines the fire nation used to have. Korra also fought in Pro-bending which you have to admit is quite a fight. Point blank range where you have to strategize on the spot and dodge by use of your muscle only. I'm just saying, don't underate the challenges Korra faced; she only had one season to do this all in which was also in a shorter span of time (her time) and the season was rushed too mind you, since they didn't plan on making LOK form the beginning. Aang developed most of his difficult enemies by the midway point of season two and then later in season three.

I'd also like to point out that Aang was pushed to the wall multiple times where the only reason he escaped was because of Avatar state. He's transformed quite a number of times if you look back. He's beaten a lot of enemies, yes, but he;s not this godly powerful character that you keep describing him as. He's nearly lost to a lot of guys who aren't that strong in comparison. Also, the tatoos come from the creation of a new technique called the air scooter, not mastery of air bending. Just read the wiki. The depiction of mastery seems to vary in the bending community since obtaining the status of master in air-bending came only form the creation of the air scooter, and yes it was just because of that. Again, check to wiki. So, personally I'd say Korra could win 2 out of 3 but I could also see Aang winning, it's just not the "stomp" that people keep thinking it is. Just cool your jets about who you think will win, don't take comments personally, see things from another person's view, and count the things going agains your own character you're rooting for, because people seem to think ai-rbending is far better at handling opponents than any other. Just reminding you, all the air benders were wiped out by the fire nation and they had temples all over the world which would give them more strongholds to take advantage of and Aang had to resort to the use of the environment more times than taking his enemy out by the use of air. I am impressed by his handiwork just like I am Korra's but I'm not going to blow things out of proportion and say one person is vastly more powerful because there's a lot of things to take into consideration. Aang hasn't fought against anti--bender users. Korra has been fighting primarily those and hasn't really had a need to pull of a feat since they were either in a cramped space, didn't use avatar state, or isn't suposed to destroy the city which is cramped as is. And lastly, please read what previous arguments say because a lot of recurring statements have either been discussed, explained, or countered. I say this because a lot of those for Aang advocates have been ignoring reasonable points made by others or just say Aang wins without an explanation with facts to back them up.

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#2  Edited By texjones1993

Well, I do have respect for Bane but aren't we all forgetting, (for those who haven't seen the movie stop reading now, in fact you shouldn't even be reading this thread to begin with.) Bane had help in preparation and money from Raish al gool's  (fuck my spelling, I know it's wrong just ignore for now) daughter. What I men i, Bane wasn't totally in control as he pretended himself to be. The daughter waited and planned her way to get into Bruce's company and money and weapons. Again, without weapons, it's obvious Bane would win, but again isn't that basically like saying a human vs a lion with no weapons. What makes the Joker such a threat is the combination of weapons, disposable plans, viciousness, and being so damn unpredictable. Bane was tough but he had years to plan, years to recruit henchman, years of money to acquire, and years of training. My point is, Bane needed years of preparation time along with a smarter accomplice who funded all his exploits. The joker however would come up with a plan that's both surprisingly simple and brilliant. Lets take the Joker vs Bane in a series of capabilities.  
 
1. Forms of manipulation: The joker would use men's weaknesses or vices such as greed, fear, and malice. At the beginning of the movie he simply told one message to each of his thugs, to kill one other person of their group. In the end he was the only one left who got out of a mob owned bank in broad daylight, and he did this simply to prove a point for another plan. Bane however used his henchman's fear of him or respect of him. He was effective and aggressive, but his use of henchman had no prolonged thought except to accomplish one goal in mind.  
 
2. Over all goal: Joker's goal was to reveal the dark nature, the human condition if you will of all the people in Gotham. eE did this by creating ultimatums that would spout chaos. The plan was so simple that the effects of it were baffling. Bane wanted to remove the shackles of the human condition and let the masses recreate society that would go about and show how low human's can go if they should be released of control of a higher power, like government. He was trying to prove that control over the masses is a necessity. Philosophically, I'd say his plan is far more meaningful and brought about more realization, but this wasn't his idea alone, rather it was the daughter's goal. None the less, I'd say Bane's goal was a little more impressive, but I would also tack on that this was the League of Shadow's goal, not his alone which could also make it less innovate.  
 
3. Methods: Joker's methods were no doubt all over the place. When I say this, I'm not inquiring that it was bad, quite the opposite. The Joker had so many alternative plans that when the police thought they had contained him, it was merely a plan set up so that he could escape leaving all of them in a wild goose chase to find Harvey Dent and "female love interest." He used simple resources like gasoline, bombs, and guns.These are all easy items to acquire, so easy that the common man could find this, illegally, but easily. And Joker's plan's were in broad daylight might I add, and he was still hard to capture. Bane's methods were fueled by large quantities of money, use of distraction, and mere force. Bane never operated in broad daylight until he went to steal Bruce's funds at the stock market. And when he was running away he was almost caught, the only intervention was the detective's impulsive need to capture Batman. If they let batman do his work, Bane would have been subdued by all the police taking aim and firing upon him. This could be speculative, but the police did appear to almost capture him. His other plans were long and thought out plans that needed to be kept secret. Had anyone checked the concrete with the blatantly displayed explosives, they would have stopped the plan far earlier.  
 
4. Posing threat to Batman: Joker never wanted to kill Batman, he simply wanted to tarnish him. He wanted Batman to see that Gotham wasn't worth saving, that the human condition is in everyone, not just Gotham. He got everyone in gotham to go after one man's life just because of a threat. He broke Harvy Dent down to where Batman had to make himself a villan to prevent criminals running free, hence the Dent act. The Joker took everything away that Bruce held dear that it broke him and broke him, so much so that he stopped being Batman for 8 years. This is what the Joker accomplished, he made Bruce feel that he wasn't the cities savior, he made him feel that he was wrong, he broke Batman mentally. Bane however tried to break Batman's spirit. He brought back what Batman feared, which was failure to save lives like his parents and others. In the end, Bane did not succeed, in fact he made Bruce stronger, which was the opposite effect he was hoping for. 
 
All in all, Joker was a better villan who could work with the bare essentials and could create a 15 step plan in a short period of time. Bane was a villan who looked for a big conclusion that he had to dedicate his life to. So, as for an immediate threat, Joker is a far larger danger. In longterm, I'd say Joker is still more dangerous because if he is left to his own devices for a long period of time, who knows what the end result could be. So, saying this, Joker could be a worse danger if they both have an hour to prepare. Joker could get the necessary items in no time spending little money. Bane would bring a dangerous team, but nothing that could come to be a more of a threat than he is himself. If the two fought, the joker would not only kill Bane, he wouldn't care. The Joker wants to prove a point, to create chaos, to expose the human condition, not destroy it. If they knew each other, the Joker would be on a mission to kill Bane because he knows that Bane would put an end to his fun if he succeeded.  
 
Here's how I personally would see it go, please criticize what ever you feel necessary. They would crash some event that the upper class would be holding.  Ra's al Ghuls daughter  Miranda would be present and acting as a bystander, (yeah I spelled his name right this time) . All of Joker's henchman would be in masks, all making themselves indistinguishable. Bane's men arrive later and Bane follows not too long after. Bane makes a speech, looks at all of Joker's men and proceeds to introduce himself and start monologuing. He would explain all that he knows of the joker and that he's hiding among his men and would in fact admire him, but the Joker represents what Bane must eliminate and says his death will be the first of many more. This would cause Joker's men to fight against Bane's men. As the fight ensues most of the guests try to flee but all the exists are closed of. Miranda is making a good act to appear panicked but stays calm none the less. Joker's and Bane's men are falling left and right, Bane is taking only a few out because he doesn't see them as a threat. A few of the Joker's henchman are just tearing threw Bane's men because they are veteraned mobsters. Eventually Bane's numbers are starting to wane in this gun fight and Bane starts taking this seriously and begins slaughtering the strongest of Joker's Henchman. The fight is just about over and maybe five or so of Joker's men are left. Bane is just standing above them with his few surviving men and just stares down at them content. The bystanders are all cowering over somewhere. Bane starts speaking again and he's giving these men their last applaud and starts peering into Joker's plan. "So, you thought you could hide among the men could you. Thought I couldn't find you. Well then, I admit, it wasn't a bad endeavor to make all of these henchman decoys." Bane pulls of all their masks, he knew none of them were the Joker. then he looks over to to bystanders and Joker starts clapping. It turned out the joker was in a guest suit as a ruse the entire time and praises Bane, then takes the outer suit off because he was wearing his personal one underneath, you know, because it's him. The Joker starts conversing back about how he likes Bane's costume and everything. Then the Joker points out that Miranda was with Bane the entire time, talking about how he noticed the little things she would do. As he does so, a few more of Joker's henchman who were hiding in the crowd too, bring her forward. As she comes up the Joker goes for one of the glasses of champaign that is remarkably still in tact. He sniffs it the throws it against the ground, just monologuing back at Bane. Then he tells Bane to leave or he'll have his men kill Miranda. Bane stares at him then laughs. "She's not afraid of death and would gladly die as long as it meant your death." As he says this she busts the two henchman down, they aren't dead, but they have broken bones and etc. The Joker laughs then picks up another cup of whatever. He then compliments her and she stands her ground above the two she just beat down. The joker then looks back at Bane and says "I kinda figured she'd be like that. She's fistey. But is he durable?" One of the beaten henchman pulls out a grenade then suicide bombs himself. Miranda jumps out of the way slightly enough not to be killed but is still maimed. Joker laughs, Bane gets pissed then begins to run at Joker. The joker throws the last glass at Bane then throws a match against the ground. Turns out the champaign had some  mixture that made it easily ignitable but not easily detected by smell or anything. Bane catches fire, backs away from Jokers and rolls to put it out. Joker's running for an exit he had planned way prior laughing, and just before he leaves he says this. "Oh, and my friends here, you would have liked them. They were a real blast." or something cheesy like that. Bane looks at Joker's dead men, they all have bombs strapped to them. Boom. Bane, Miranda, and all the guests inside dead. 
 
Now I know there are a lot of loop holes one could make, but again I'm just saying that this kind of planning seems a bot more likely of the joker. It's simple but has many preparations in case. Bane and Miranda can create an intricate plan, but they ignore little things like in the movie when Bruce made an anti-detonator. That was a bit obvious, especially since she knew who Batman was sto begin with along with a lot of the tech he comes into the game with, I mean he had a switch the turned the lights of all buildings and zones on and off. They also had no counter plan for any of batman's strategies. I'm merely pointing out that something simple could be forgotten by them which the Joker can easily exploit, and with little preparation time, they're playing a game the joker knows all too well.

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#3  Edited By texjones1993

also, I have to point out what King Quilsing stated. He said and I quote " Dante was impaled by his some huge sword in maybe DMC2 or DMC3 but he just yanked it out and healed. Like crazy hellfire healing. All Alucard does is that T-1000 blood puddle reform thing."   
  
 so what you're telling me is that Alucards regenerative factor is inferior, as in he voluntarily let himself be shot to what can best be called a puddle of blood and returned back to normal, to Dante's because he was stabbed with a sword and yanked it out . . . That's woverine regeneration level. Note, I love Wolverine. So, didn't he just contradict his point? And his devil trigger is powerful, but again exaggeration and downsizing of the opponent all over.

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#4  Edited By texjones1993

Well, I have to say I don't know much about Dante but I do read the previous comments and do a little research on each character. Alucard, I've read the manga in it's entirety, I've watched both seasons of Hellsing (OVA is the other in case you didn't know) and even though a lot of  . . . lets call them words, have been thrown back and forth and all I can say is those who think Dante wins are completely underselling Alucard. From the previous threads we haven't been given any proof that Dante is "unkillable" and we know that his regenerative factor slows down after a certain number of injuries. Alucard continues fighting despite the serious injuries. This isn't to say that Dante can't take a hit, but his regenerative factor seems to be quite slower. When I say this I mean I've watched play throughs of the games and even though Dante is formidable, he really has't brought an ability that surpasses Alucard regenerative time or capability, because in the manga and show, we still haven't seen all the extents of what Alucard can do. Now again, I do have respect for Dante, in fact in these VS threads respect for each contender should be given since they were compared against each other because they are seen as feasible threats to one another, but I know what his limits are. When Dante fights, he doesn't intend himself to be hit, if he did his regeneration would be worn out by the end of the fight. Alucard purposely lets himself be bombarded with fire and blades and continues fighting as though it were casual. I'm simply saying that the extent of his healing capabilities has never been pushed, even when it appears to be to extreme measures. But lets just say neither can be killed, then wouldn't it be a matter of who can make the other incapacitated first? In this case, we can see that Dante can be worn out, as seen on his show. Alucard has never shown exhaustion, rather he's shown bemusement to others short lived success. Now I'm piling all this evidence on Alucard side not because I'm a fanboy, I am though, but I would like to actually compile evidence that hasn't been presented or has been downsized. For instance when @King Quisling  said: 

@Samurai X: Hey dude, I said it could possibly end in stalemate. Don't give Sparda guff for something I said. ANd secondly, I'm not a Dante "Dick Sucker" (When did people stop saying Fanboy?) I barely even enjoy those games. The voice acting is always dreadful and the plots are usually pretty dull. I'm just saying, Dante is suppose to be this almost all powerful demon. Alucard is a god-like vampire. It's a all powerful demon against a god-LIKE vampire. Dante's power trumps Alucard probably 100-fold. Alucards may be slightly cooler but they're both boring freaking characters that really have no rightful place on the Vine. It could end in a stalemate but if Dante goes into his crazy demon mode all bets are off. What could Alucard do to stop him? Oh and referring to something else, Dante was impaled by his some huge sword in maybe DMC2 or DMC3 but he just yanked it out and healed. Like crazy hellfire healing. All Alucard does is that T-1000 blood puddle reform thing. Dante would blast his bloody bits with hellfire until Alucard is completely evaporated and there's nothing left to reform.  " 
For someone who supposedly knows each character, he completely downsized what Alucard can do. This ins't to saw the other person who was arguing against him was applying information in a proper way, but at least he took into consideration as to what Dante is capable of. Dante is strong, but he has been shown at his limits and close to what we could call death. Alucard has only been detained by a human once and to be honest it seemed more that Alucard let himself be detained rather than losing to his opponent. The only other time Alucard was "defeated" was when  Junior Warrant Officer Schrödinger, a character who exists every where and nowhere at the same time was absorbed into alucard, thus making him follow the same line of existence. Here's a better quote " He explains that as long as Schrödinger can recognize himself, he exists everywhere and nowhere; but because he is absorbed by Alucard, he became a part of Alucard and was thus no longer a separate entity that could recognize itself. Thus, Alucard, now containing Schrödinger, can no longer stay in phase with the rest of reality and is becoming "a set of imaginary numbers", existing on some level but not in reality. "     
 
Of course, at the end, Alucard kills off all but the one soul, that one being Schrödinger, allowing it to be self aware thus Alucard is now everywhere and nowhere at the same time with the same regentive capabilities. So, when comparing Dante and Alucard, it's a question as to which ALucard, the soul filled one who can make an entire army or the one who is everything the previous one is just without the army capability but existing on two planes of existence. Either way, I'd say Alucard wins because of vast abilities that we may not even know of, and again he can just absorb some more souls. But, by all means apply reasons you tink Dante would win, just don't downsize or exaggerate either's abilities.
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#5  Edited By texjones1993

Oh, as a quick reminder as to why Korra had a hard time learning the spiritual side and airbending, it's partially if not almost all because Aang was shot with lightning in the back. As stated by the fortune teller (or something lie that) "The next Avatar will be burdened because of this." I'll admit Aang has shown better feats but isn't that becuase he's been given the chance to? COnsidering all her enemies were on the ground doing hand to hand combat, we really have no idea of what her feats could be. Imagine Aang's season's of Avatar, now take all the navy scenes, the amry chasing them, and leave it to just the close quarter fights. LEaving everything else aside, Aang only had to do amazing feats when fighting against something epic. And again he has help when doing these epic feats. It's not all just him. And yes he does have better control over the avatar state but that took three season to achieve. So, again, we don't know what Korra can do yet. That said, that also gives reason to doubt Korra I suppose. Either way, this stomp isn't going to happen. This won't be easy for either to win. 

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#6  Edited By texjones1993
@ComicStooge: Yeah I watched it. I wasn't trying to attack you I was just making a point. i watched the original series like 5 times over, each episode. I like the show. X)
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#7  Edited By texjones1993

@Dextersinister 
 
I agree with the normal philosophy of that but Pro-Bending can be applied to lethal points and as they play they do go for weak points, that's how they win in tournaments. Because they have to, most of their actions on the fly and they are more likely to react faster and more appropriately to attacks than most benders. They are only restricted by zones and head shots. Otherwise they are performing any kind of martial art bending they want. We can see this when they spot the weakest player, prey upon injuries like the opposing team did on Bo Lin during a match when his arm was broken. They hit his arm mercilessly, and even at the finals when the opposing team was cheating it showed they could easily apply their skills  on the environment. Plus probender scan be as rough as they want since we've seen people taken to the hospital frequently, and it was without penalty; they fight just as any other bender would. And again, Korra has had training from masters of each bending and still does while she's pro-bending, so I doubt she's having her years of bending training corrupted by maybe a few months of pro-bending.

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#8  Edited By texjones1993

ComicStooge

Most of the people Aang fought were aggressive. I doubt Korra has any idea of how to even fight an Airbender. 


 
@ComicStooge No idea how to fight an air bender eh? She trained under a more disciplined air-bending master who taught her the physical and spiritual technique of air bending and she doesn't know how to fight against it eh? We saw Tenzin get taken out by people who don't know much about air bending. . . .  -_-
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#9  Edited By texjones1993

Again, you're exaggerating Aang a lot. If he was so great at long range he would have beaten the archers, the assassins who could bend psychic fire beams, the tanks. His long range capabilities aren't that great, not to mention there have been enemies who have been abe to punch through his bending. Aang is evasive but only with the inclusion of bending and he needs a lot of roo to do it. Korra can have limited space and still dodge a multitude of attacks. Examples, Boomie vs Aang. Aang was running all over the place and when he lost places to run who couldn't evade that well. Korra built up her evasiveness significantly, she learned the methodology of air bending dodging without air bending, which I could argue would make her much better at it since again, she can maintain her ground while still evading all attacks. Besides, it was only one episode that placed emphasis on her dodging, one. And that was like the second episode anyway. Yes, she is a bit straight forward but if watch the episodes you see how far she improved. Besides, Tenzin's evasiveness is very similar to Anng's and he was getting hit all the time. Please, if you're going to place your vote and claim a "stomp" of the other, apply actual facts and also place the faults of your victor so it's easier to sympathise with. 

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#10  Edited By texjones1993

God I love to argue. Anyway. Aang's feats aren't that high as we continue to remember them. Let's look back. 1.Anng taking out a navy fleet : there were bombs on board or weak points that he exploited. Korra had multiple bending proof tanks that she fought against and won; with help I admit but Aang was assisted too. 2. When Aan took out the navy fleet at the north pole: he was in avatar state which was only triggered by the death of the moon spirit, and he was given help by the water spirit too. 3.Aang destroying the giant drill penetrating Ba sing Se: IT wasn't his plan, it was Sokka's. Second it was primarily because Kitara and Toph were blocking the passage for the waste that allowed the build up. Aang only had the cout an x in the hull which looked like it took twenty or so minutes and then drive a wedge in it. So this feat was his alone. 4. Fighting against Ozai and winning: you mean the five minutes of running and then having the avatar state have to kick in to help him . . . My point is were are exaggerating his feats and experience way too much plus he's had plenty of enemies he's almost lost against  and some were far less trained than Korra. Let's give a list. 1.Zuko: he's a great fire bender but he lost his cool most of the time and was beaten by many other fire benders and Kitara. It wasn't till season 3 he got a cool on himself. 2. The Dai lee or something likt that: who almost captured him. Granted they were badass but he had a hard time dodging attacks. 3. The archers sent by Zhao: Yes they were great marksman but still, for someone you call Soooo agile and elusive that not only countered his beding prowess but even captured him. And they were not trained in anti-bender combat. You could argue that Korra was captured by the equalists but again they were anti-bender specialists with technology that stun them. Plus they attacked from the shadows or with disguises a large portion of the time. 4. Sparky Sparky boom boom man (Sokka named him: The assassin Zuko sent who could only fire in a straight line. Yeah, Aang had to run his ass the entire time and it was Sokka who took him out. Aang dodged a good portion of the time but who couldn't get a fire off at him because of  continuos suppressive fire. Hmm, continuos suppressive fire, sounds like Pro bending, oh, as in the sport Korra trained at and made it to the finals were she dodged fire from three people at the same time all using different elements. Hmmmmm! And she only lost the tournament becuase the ther team was blatantly cheating. BIG FREAKING HMMMMMM! 5. Ozai: as I said before, he was running almost the entire time. The onyl time he came into confrontation was when he went into the boulder and almost died, which he needed the Avatar state to take over. Surprising how many times he needed the avatar state to save  his ass. 6. Yakown: This one really isn't during his season but I have to at least mention it, he lost to a blood bender and again almost died if not for the avatar state. Korra fought someone who was not only a better blood bender but was trained in  anti-bender fighting styles and won. 7. Jet: a guy who fought without bending almost beat him in a fight. My gosh. I mean, Aang is good and all but the only time Aang has a chance of winning against Korra is from season 3. I'm not saying he can't win but if he does, this Stomp that you keep mentioning is completely outlandish. As for Korra's feats, lets take a look. 1. Pro-bending to the finals 2. Beating Equalists who fight in a manner Aang had trouble with. 3. Beating Amon. Granted I'd say she got a cheap shot in and he had to run away because he was exposed but I'm sure Amon is way harder to fight than Ozai. 4. Fighting anti-bender mecha tanks. Yeah she lost against them the first time around be she won then on. All of Korra's feats included her fighting them head on where as Aang's feats usually included the avatar state or running. That's not to say running is always a bad strategy, but it's not a guaranteed winning one, we saw how that worked out against the archers, the psychic fire bender, Azula, the Dai lee (seriously someone put the right name in later on), or Ozai, hell even Zhao. I mean he got him to burn his boats but that didn't stop him from killing the moon spirit now did it.

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