sync1

Fear is self-imposed. Meaning, it does not exist. You can create it, and you can also destroy it.

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Tyrion Lannister stops at Deadpool lol

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Kitty is hot as hell ;) so team 1.

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@somayareece: Are you talking about this:

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Because i think she's just stabbing him with her hand, not phasing through him

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#6  Edited By sync1

15 of me vs Mike Tyson. Mike has no chance against 1 of me.

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hehe killer crook. team wins

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#8  Edited By sync1

I've trained 100 different martial arts on 12 different planets, ive beaten karate kid in single combat and sucker punched XXXtentacion. I'd probably speed blitz him in less than a nano second before i transmute him into a baby carrot. this punk dies 10 out of 10 times in a godstomp in my favor.

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Team 1 would destroy the Resident Evil team.

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#10  Edited By sync1

Dude i'm so sorry for the late post man, had some real lifing to do lol. Anyway without further ado here's my 2nd post:

@darthjhawk said:

Counter and Strategy I:

"It feels we are only just getting into this and Hawkeye is being underestimated. Even with the feats shown I have not seen anything that makes Barbara faster than Clint. If anything I could see an argument for them being equals and that is being generous. Another thing is that it seems as though you are downplaying Clint's h2h skill, and use of his bow. But we will get into that."

Only thing being downplayed here is Barbara's intelligence. Her brain works like a computer, and she's able to think further ahead than normal people can. In fact she's so smart that she's able to turn off her photographic memory, so that she's able to think even faster (according to comic book logic). Let's look at an example of that ability below, when she's able to defeat Teacher, a character who is much faster than Barbara.

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This scan above is their first encounter, and Barbara loses because she's just too fast. When Barbara learns how to turn off her photographic memory, she's able to predict Teacher's movements and defeat her.
Defeats "Teacher"

Teacher has meta-human enhanced thinking, and has trained other metahuman assassins like the Moth, and others whom names i can't recall right now. But let's look at their feats below, they all manage to give Barbara a hard time, and are all inhumanly fast and thinking capabilities' are enhanced:

Notice how fast the assassin is moving, and in the last scan Fruitbat deflects the knife.
Forces Batgirl to retreat, Cape is able to deflect Hawkeye's standard tip arrows*
Moth vs Barbara in MMA (first encounter), Moth catches Barbara off guard when Barbara sees her tattoo and figures out she's an assassin
Moth vs Batgirl (second encounter), a fully focused Batgirl defeats Moth no problem.

Barbara's genius level intellect gives her an edge in this fight, which is something I think you're undermining. She's able to fight people who are faster than her. But that's not to undermine Barbara's speed as well. In a lot of her fights she likes to mix it up with her equipment as well, so let's look at her speed/equipment feats below:

Fights Xa-Du, a Superman villain. She effortlessly dodges his heat vision and attacks, and has a strong flashbang batarang
Swerves gunshot point blank by flipping the gunmen before the gun can even shoot
Barbara is no slouch in accuracy, she's able to do impressive trick shots with her batarangs

As you can see, she's fast in speed and at drawing her batarang. She's even more deadly when she uses her gear. To get a better idea of how strong her equipment is, let's look at some feats below:

EMP batarang can take out a whole building, including everything electronic inside
Batarang can cut through Poison Ivy's vines
Strong enough to hold Huntress's body weight
Strong enough to hold Huntress's body weight

You make it seem as if Hawkeye is just going to be standing still while Barbara tries to rush him. Hawkeye can easily fight with his bow&arrow 1on1 CQC and on the move.

Hawkeye, with a damaged bow, manages to seamlessly, weave through a crowd and nail, who I believe is Crossbones who is on the other side of a city block, and still manages to nail him with a perfect non-lethal shot and take him down. This is a guy who gives Captain America some trouble. And why mention Cap?

Because Hawkeye, extensively trains and spars in CQC with Cap. I consider Captain America to be much more impressive than Batgirl, or Nightwing, and arguably more impressive than Batman himself. Consequently, I do not see Barbara if she can close the distance being able to have any significant edge over Hawkeye in CQC.

Crossbones was running in a straight line... Barbara could chuck a bowling ball and hit him from that range. And as far as Hawkeye's "CQC training" , this is about as much as it will do for him:

Stephanie Brown's training was meaningless against Barbara
Stephanie Brown's training was meaningless against Barbara

"As far as gear versatility you have only shown batarangs, explosive batarangs, foam, and a grappling hook. Hawkeye has all of these and so much more. So until you show she has more versatility than this, Clint has the much better gear just by this.

Arrows:

Just some of the arrows Hawkeye can use that matches and imo outdoes the power and versatility of Babs gear.

Scan 1: Hypersonic arrow bombards Radioactive Man with sound

Scan 2: Taser arrow causes Nul to cry out in pain

Scan 3: Several explosive arrows stagger Nul, an amped Hulk -

Scan 4-5: Putty Arrow capable of holding an adamantium Ultron"

And notice, ALL of these guys are slower than Barbara. Good feats, but redundant if he's not going to actually hit Barbara with anything.

"Clint could replicate all of these (durability) feats without something like Batgirl's armor, but imo might not even have too as he would be fast enough to avoid some of these like the flamethrower, Gretel, or the acid."

Oh come on, so Clint is fireproof? Show me a scan of him tanking a flamethrower and then we're talking. Also, going to need some more feats of him dodging something like heat vision casually, before we can even assume he's on the same level as Batgirl in terms of speed.

"Okay this Nightwing feat. Nightwing wasn't even really trying to fight her. She caught him off-guard because he came worried as a friend, not to pick a fight. While the Batman fight was impressive for him, I don't see anything here that shows that she actually beat him, while he was truly fighting back. This feat and the sparring one for Black Canary were both cheap shots from people who were not fighting at their best, (not really trying imo) or trying to get her angry (Black Canary)."

I was saying Nightwing is good at not being caught off-guard, because of HIS ability to read opponents (he's said he has this ability many times in the comics, don't see the need to bring feats for it). Therefore, Barbara is evidently good at catching people off-guard. Who's to say Clint will see Barbara coming, with her smoke bombs and unorthodox stealthy attacks?

As far as Black Canary goes; why would she purposely get beat up by Barbara? Twice? You're just in denial if you really think she was holding back. This isn't the first time they went toe to toe. Barbara has other times as well, including in staff fighting and when Dinah was mind controlled; Barbara was doing just fine defending from Canary. At this point, if you read their comics; it's basically a given that Batgirl is at LEAST on the same level as Black Canary in fight skill.

Where is this move-reading ability? I haven't seen it once yet. The fight with Dick Grayson was comparing her ballet style to his acrobatics. And that comes from their shared history, not move reading. Also as I stated above Clint was trained extensively by Captain America, so I am pretty sure he does not get outmatch in skill, but lets compare feats since you've shown better h2h feats against fodder characters whose h2h skills are not that impressive and the ones against established fighters are not very strong & solid feats in my book:

I've gave feats for her move reading ability above. Also, training extensively means nothing if you have no skill to back it up.

Hawkeye nearly beats Mockingbird to death in hand to hand--they both start out mind controlled but Clint and Bobbi finds a way to counteract it later on.

They were dead even more than half the time... this feat to me, doesn't prove anything we didn't already know. And who even is Mockingbird haha she hasn't done anything impressive IIRC.

Now lets reference his Ronin days in New Avengers, Hawkeye can match several of Babs' metahuman h2h feats with his own, and is capabe of taking on and defeating multiple Hand Ninja at once. The Hand are some of the best h2h fodder around, so that is no small feat.

Match?? Talons are significantly better than Hand Ninjas. Plus Barbara has already beaten League of Assassin ninjas, who are basically on the same skill level as Hand Ninjas:

Barbara easily fights multiple League of Assassin ninjas

But without a doubt, Talons are the much better fodder than both Hand Ninjas and League of Shadows ninjas, and Barbara has even defeated one of the better Talons "Strix":

And another thing you're forgetting is Barbara's ruthlessness when it comes to fighting. When has Hawkeye fought someone as savage as Batgirl?

Barbara eye gouges a metahuman

Now let's look at your one example of Clint beating Cap:

Now this is an impressive feat of Clint's. Here he takes on and defeats Steve Rogers in an impressive display of combat speed, and skill, and trick arrows to down Cap. I haven't seen anything from you that proves Barbara can take out someone on Cap's level in a fight that both parties are equally trying to win.

That is exactly what this is: just one example. There are numerous other examples that suggest otherwise. You have already shown us multiple feats of Cap dodging his arrows like slight work, and even a couple where he beats Clint. To me, this feat tells a very inconsistent story, and if we're going by which feats are stronger; then it has to be consistent. This feat cannot be accomplished consistently by any means. Therefore, to be riding off this feat as Clint's "normal" fighting skill would be a very unsubstantiated argument, when people like Black Widow can dodge Clint's arrows:

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Just a few things from this:

  • I think you've lowballed Clint's CQC considerably, and I feel if you had researched a bit more thoroughly you would have seen the scans I put out.

I think you haven't shown enough evidence that supports your claims. I feel like i've provided more than enough evidence to back up my statements.

  • I have not seen anything yet that makes a string case as to why Batgirl has an edge over Clint in speed or versatility when I have displayed Clint's at least equal speed, and overall more effective versatility with his weapons, the bulk of which I still did not even get into.

Heat vision, fireballs, acid balls, tasers, bullets; all easily dodged by Barbara. She has more point blank bullet dodging feats than Clint's got bullet dodging feats in general! Honestly there's not much use in me trying to argue Barbara is faster because i'm sitting here comparing the feats you've presented and the feats i've presented and Barbara is clearly and visibly faster. So until you provide me some more solid evidence of Clint being able to dodge laser beams of Xa-Du's caliber, or better yet even be able to consistently dodge gunfire from point blank, then i'm not convinced at all that Clint is even at Barbara's level, nonetheless faster.

  • Her suit from what I have seen let her survive those things, not necessarily tank or withstand them, plus Hawkeye's explosives are more powerful than the ones shown.

Can Hawkeye hit Barbara with an arrow? That's the biggest question you have yet to provide any evidence for.

  • Closing the distance, while you think gives Barbara an edge, actually makes Clint's job easier to hit her a close range with an arrow, mix up a h2h/arrow combo or just straight up use his arrows with his hands to take her out of this fight

Won't make it easier if she's in range to hit Clint with a foam bomb. All it takes is one to completely immobilize him. She also has the gear necessary to make it easier to hit him with a foam bomb, like flash bangs, bolas, EMPs, smoke bombs, and all types of other batarangs. To be honest i don't see this being a h2h fight until Barbara exhausted all of her options with her tech; and if that's the case then Clint is going down hard with a combo of bat tech and h2h fighting.

  • The feats you have shown against established fighters, were not those at their best or even trying to seriously fight, while Hawkeye has a solid and definitive win over Captain America, someone more impressive than Black Canary or Nightwing.

Yeah and Hawkeye also lost all the rest of their encounters. Can't keep riding off an inconsistent feat, because Hawkeye can't do it every single time whereas Barbara has consistently been able to hold her own against Canary. Consistency > ONE "win"

  • You haven't displayed this move reading ability, but rather a knowledge on Nightwing due to their history.

The ability is up above. look through the scans

  • Her gadgets have a limited variety, whereas Hawkeye has so many more, that I have not shown yet.

What you see as limited, i see as all she needs. Seriously, one foam bomb is all it takes. I'll give you a chance to show me some solid evidence that proves Clint can dodge her gear, otherwise i'ma assume he's getting foamed up then KO'd. Barbara is smarter, faster, and more skilled of a fighter based off of the feats presented. She uses unorthodox methods of striking, which i believe Clint will not be prepared for, and is more than capable of taking Clint out with a cheapshot to the nuts or eyes. Either way, clean or dirty, with gadgets or without; Hawkeye is going down.

Conclusion: Hawkeye Wins loses. :)