By sora_thekey 18 Comments
What is up Comic Vine?! Welcome to the "Roundtable User Discussion"! CV users, like yourself, virtually met up to talk comic books and other comic book-related topics. The conversation has been posted here for your enjoyment. Be sure to comment below where you can submit your own opinions after reading ours. Be sure to go back and read our other conversations (Here) and share your thoughts there too. Even if you disagree with us, we like comments. Seriously.
I am Geo, better known as sora_thekey and I will be moderating this very special Roundtable Discussion. I am joined by the fairer sex today surrounded by female users all around. Help me welcome back RazzaTazz, Icarusflies, The Psyentist, The Dark Huntress and for the first time thehummingbird.
The Psyentist: Hey, everybody. I'm Psy, and I'm a REAL GIRL!
RazzaTazz: Hi all, I am Razzatazz (or Tammy as some real life people like my parents call me) I am back after a sort of self imposed exile to my underwater hideaway.
thehummingbird: -bows- I am thehummingbird, better known as THB, I eat way to many oranges, and think I am a girl. I am grateful to be joining you this evening.
Icarusflies: What the…I thought this was a Secret Society meeting? Who let Sora in?
The Dark Huntress: I say we boot him out.
Icarusflies: Anyway, I'm Icarusflies, everyone's favorite dictator…I mean, uh…awesome ninja robot.
The Dark Huntress: I'm DH, your friendly neighborhood alternate reality and Emma Frost expert.
Well opposed to what Icarus and DH think, I am here to moderate. Hold the "Geo is a girl" jokes please.
Like I said in my intro this is a very special Roundtable discussion not only becuase I am joned by all of you lovely geeks but because the topic of discussion is Girls Who Read Comics. That's why, other than myself, there are no guys here and we are going to have our own "Girls Talk".
Okay so like always I want to know what you girls are up to, comic book-wise. What have you been reading, watching, doing, writing or drawing that is comic book related?
RazzaTazz: Still trying to do my Wonder Woman review project, where I started out wanting to review 10% of all issues. I am all over the place, today I did from 1970s and 1990s. Last week I was doing 1950s. No way I could do Golden Age straight. My eyes would start to bleed. Last weekend I passed 50%. I will be gunning down G-Man soon for his spot on the reviewers list. More specifically though I just finished the 'biker girl in blue' fashion phase of Diana which is one of my personal favourites.
The Psyentist: Well, I'm currently still working on my sporadic comic Miss Anne Thrope. Other than that, I've been pretty busy with college ending for the semester and such.
The Dark Huntress: I FINALLY SAW THOR! Damn was that an amazing movie. As for what I've been reading, I finally finished reading the entire volume of Exiles, the first arc of the new X-23 book, The Killing Dream and the Master of Doom story arc of Fantastic Four.
thehummingbird: Hmmm... I just read Zatanna and the Seven Soldiers arc.....and caught up on my Sirens...On a more exciting note I have begun to start making a pattern for my Catwoman costume as well as fabric hunting. Re-watching Justice League Unlimited, and perhaps making a Wonder Woman pastel...
The Psyentist: Been watching some Wolverine and the X-Men...
Icarusflies: ….AGAIN?! AGAIN SORA?! Why must you torment me?
Comics: Justice League Elite [trades], Invincible, Chew, Irredeemable, Incorruptible, Sweet Tooth, iZombie, Deadpool, Batman Beyond, Superboy, Weird Worlds, Batgirl, Batman Incorporated, Batman: Arkham City, The Flash, Flashpoint, R.E.B.E.L.S, Red Robin, Batman, Batman and Robin, Booster Gold, Superman/Batman, Teen Titans, Xombi, Tiny Titans, Detective Comics, Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, Green Lantern: Emerald Warriors,
Webcomics: Dr. Mcninja, XKCD, Let's Be Friends Again, Ctrl-Alt-Delete, Romantically Apocalyptic, Hark! A Vagrant, Hanna is not a boy's name, Boxer Hockey, Buttersafe, The Punchline is Machismo, Featuring Talking Guinea Pigs, Hyperbole and a Half, Gutters, String Theory, Insane Yeti Squirrel, Rare Candy Treatment, Doctor Cat, Looking For Group, Johnny Wander, Battle Pug
Drawing: I drew a Tron-ized version of Flash recently
Writing: I'm always active in the RPG forum, but this doesn't directly relate to comics…yet.
thehummingbird: School has taken away from most of my comic book life, I have a pile of catwoman comics from free comic book day. Also bought a Harley Quinn figure from Batman the Animated Series.
TheDarkHuntress: Ooooh. FCBD. That is my new favorite day of the year. I adore my comic shop.
You all have been keeping yourselves busy in the comics world.
Now more than ever this small section of the Roundtable (RT) is important because this clearly proves that girls do read comic books. On to the topic then. Have you all ever heard any expression along these lines: "Girls don't read comic books?" or "She wouldn't understand comic books since she's a girl"?
The Dark Huntress: Yes. What kills me is when people make threads like that here. "Why doesn't my girlfriend like comics", "Do ANY girls like comics?" threads like that. They irritate the heck out of me.
RazzaTazz: I don't see the connection myself, comics sort of transcend a lot of different genres,and comics can be a lot better than other form of media (like movies) because there are almost no restrictions on it, save for what the writer can imagine and what the artists can draw. So why if I am interested in the extent of human imagination would I restrict myself from comics?
thehummingbird: Why yes of course mainly by boys who have never seen a girl before....and think they are fictional creatures....unlike unicorns which are very much so real, a good comparison would be like the concept of Big Foot. They think they exist, but they can not be sure until they see it. And people do not think I have any "nerdy" hobbies until they talk to me and then they have their mind explode. It is really funny actually.
The Dark Huntress: I've said it before and I'll say it again. People tend to view girls on this site like freaking unicorns. It's crazy. Yes, girls are real. Yes, they like comic books. No, it is not that hard a concept to grasp. Seriously, we have what, three female moderators? Not to mention Sara.
Icarusflies: Haha, not me…I'm the type of girl who's NEVER been considered girly. If people have questions about comics I'm usually the first person my RL acquaintances turn to.
Girly or not, there are girls who read comic books. You are all proof of it.
It's no secret that I like manga and anime. The genres for anime and manga are separated into categories: shounen which means boy or guy, shojo which means girl in Japanese and others which we won't get into. Back in the 60s the same thing happened with comic books where guys would read superheroes and girls would read romantic-themed comic books. Nowadays it's not true especially since I, a guy, enjoy my share of shojo anime and manga. I'm sure you all like your action and "guy stuff". What do you say to the sterotypical idea that there are certain stories that appeal to women contrary than men.
Icarusflies: Stupid. Most of the stories people thought guys would like sold better with women. Take Neil Gaiman's Sandman series.
thehummingbird: I love Sandman and Neil Gaiman, me and my english teacher discuss it all the time it is beautiful.
The Psyentist: I remember when I first discovered the older romantic comics for women. I looked at it almost cross eyed. What IS this? I guess one of the things that would appeal to women in those is what appeals to me even in "normal" comics. And that is drama. Interpersonal relationships and the sparks that fly, interpersonal struggles. It just more exciting because it also involves villains, superpowers, and physical violence!
thehummingbird: I like more shounen then shojo personally. Deadman Wonderland is incredible and Future Diary are two of my favorites. I will admit I have read Fruits Basket and Kimi ni Todoke also. (Note: All of these are anime and manga series) Regardless as you just said though the labeling actually lowers the demographic because many guys become disinclined when told a manga is shojo, or in this case a comic is focussed around romance. While girls will read regardless of the labelling.
Icarusflies: I don't read any manga. :P
The Dark Huntress: I think that there are always going to be certain stories geared toward certain genres and certain tastes. Sometimes those include the family audience, sometimes they don't. I, personally, don't look so much at who a story is geared toward, or what genre it is, so much as the story itself. I do tend to really enjoy reading about strong female characters (Emma Frost, X-23, Birds of Prey), but I could name a lot of men who enjoy reading about those characters as well. So I really think that it's all subjective to a person's individual taste as opposed to what gender they are.
I enjoy reading about Emma Frost, X-23 and Birds of Prey!
The Dark Huntress: Point proven! ^_^
RazzaTazz: I guess I will be the first to break the ice on this topic - at a very basic level the depiction of a lot of comic book superheroines sort of always makes me think in a way that I am reading something more geared towards a guy than to me, but the concept that there is a specific genre which appeals specifically to me is pretty strange. I mean if you consider that comics encompass the genres of action, adventure, intrigue, thriller, sci, horror, espionage and sometimes even other genres like westerns or war, that none of those genres are considered traditionally only male, except for maybe action. More so in other media some of the best authors in those genres are female (like Agatha Christie for instance).
thehummingbird: I am often angry when I realize how many more comics I own starring girl leads rather than male. I do read Batman and Nightwing, but I prefer to read Sirens, Wonder Woman, or Zatanna.
RazzaTazz: There is nothing wrong with identifying with a female character for me, I am after all a woman, just I sometimes find it hard to sympathize with them the way they are drawn or written.
thehummingbird: Yes I can agree the character I love the most is Harley. However, I sympathize with Selina Kyle the most, therefore I am drawn to those two. As you brought up often the way the girls are portrayed it is hard to relate to, almost harder than the male leads because on many unrealistic aspects.
Razz makes a good point. While, yes, most comic books now are super hero themed, it does't mean that "superhero" is a genre. Some are horror, mystery, drama and more. So there is something for everyone.
What do you think about the super hero comics that are originally geared toward a female audience? Like Marvel Divas, Birds of Prey, Her-Oes, Gotham Cty Sirens...
The Dark Huntress: Birds of Prey, the original volume is one of the books that really made me take a harder look at DC. I own every printed trade of it, save for the first and it's probably my favorite comic series that I've read. It'd undoubtedly in the top five. I love well-written strong female characters and that is most definitely Gail Simone's niche, despite her fact to occasionally play up the characters that she's writing.
Icarusflies: The only one of those I've ever read is Birds of Prey. And I'll admit it, I only read it for the Calculator…who is male. I've just never really liked the female characters who headline the series…Oracle, Huntress, Catwoman, Harley.
Though I actually LOVE the Batgirl series, and am actually warming towards Steph…and I always liked it when Cassie was spotlighted in whatever series.
The Dark Huntress: To be clear, though, I don't like them because they're geared towards females. X-Women was supposed to be geared towards females and it was horrible. Bad story and porn-ish and gratuitous art. I like them because they're so well written and really display well rounded and interesting characters.
The Psyentist: To be honest, I never was really into reading comics geared solely toward a female audience. I like having a mix of men and women on a team. But I guess the dynamic could be very different and consequently a nice change in pace. Birds of Prey did seem to have a lot of great, strong women. As for Marvel Divas… yeah, I was turned off when it said Divas.
RazzaTazz: I think generally whenever there is a title geared towards women they should give strong thought to giving it a female writer. I havent read much of Marvel Divas, Her-Oes or Sirens but i think the concept is usually somewhat flawed when they try to handle the personal lives in a meaningful way. BoP I sort of see the other way, its sort of like Jason Bourne in hotpants and fishnets, so really the best overall writer there is the way to go. Still even with that, it really anooyed me at times how they handled the Oracle and Nightwing romance.
thehummingbird: Sirens was really good at the beginning because the inventor of Harley Quinn Paul Dini wrote it, he is a very good writer of female characters he has also done the newest Zatanna series. I overall would say it is my favorite series ever when Dini writes for it.
Opposite to that last question, what do you think of titles which showcase only one or two female characters in team books? Like the current Avengers who only has Spider-Woman and Maria Hill or the original JLA that only had Wonder Woman.
RazzaTazz: I have read a lot of JLA in addition to WW and for me it sort of goes one of two ways. Sure it would have been nice to have more female characters in some of these earlier versions of the team books, but at that point in the publication history of the companies by having Wonder Woman and Black Canary on the Justice League they had about 100% of all viable female heroes at the time. This is a lot higher percentage than the male characters got. Still on the flip side, I think in some ways the characters end up being displayed almost matriarchically. Like "Diana we were thinking about throwing this building on top of that bad guy, can you go take care of the day care over there so the kids don't get hurt?"
The Dark Huntress: I don't think they work that well, to be honest. It always seems to fall back on stereotypes. Either the female is completely helpless and can't do anything for herself and is there as a token piece. Or they make her one of the males in everything except physical form.
One book that did pull that off really well though was Fantastic Four. Sue Richards was without a doubt the glue that held that family together. She was a strong woman in a pretty much all male environment and she didn't lose herself doing it.
The Psyentist: If there is just one woman on a team, there is just one woman on a team. I'm used to that in my own life. Yeah, it does kind of irritate me when the woman is just the token or some sort of girl who can't handle herself in the field besides serving as a sex object for some cheap jokes.
thehummingbird: They are good sometimes, mostly they try to hard to exemplify that they are girl and usually end up being a house wife stereotype, or they end up like an overly manly feminist extremist. Like Wonder Woman in Allstar Batman and Robin. When she yelled and got angry at men calling them gross, but then she then kisses Superman vigorously to exemplify is a woman.
Icarusflies: I don't think that works very well. There tends to be…well, very little of anything. Except punching. There's still a lot of punching. A balanced roster works, an ALL male roster works, OR an ALL female roster works. Just having the 'token' character helps nothing.
Icarus, did you think the roster for Dark Avengers worked?
Icarusflies: I don't know, I don't read Marvel.
Well, in Dark Avengers the only female in the group was Ms. Marvel (otherwise known as Moonstone). Her main characteristic was trying to have sex with everybody on the team but when it came to the battlefield she was probably the strongest and fastes next to Sentry.
Icarusflies: Well you have to keep in mind that all of the other people on the team were ALSO probably trying to have sex with everybody…you just have to keep in mind that there were more of them.
That's true. Especially since Daken was in that team.
Let's talk looks. Usually comic books are visually made to appeal to guys. Why do I say that? The boobs and the sexy poses on the covers. More specifically on J. Scott Cambell's cover's. What are your opinions on that?
I remember a previous RT where xerox-kitty was bothered by an X-Men cover where Emma Frost is in a straightjacket but you can still see cleavage.
The Psyentist: I have that Emma Frost picture. It did make me chuckle. Straightjackets don't have cleavage!
Icarusflies: Ugh, I HATE the skimpy costumes. They're not good for fighting, they're demeaning, you can't have creative designs, and IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO FIND A LOGO, POWERGIRL.
The Dark Huntress: Shocking for the sake of being shocking art irritates me. Same with sexy for the sake of being sexy. Realistic art is definitely one of my favorites, I count Mike Choi and Danny Luvisi among my favorite artists. I've come to accept gratuitous art as pretty much a norm, but I'm also aware enough to admit that it does go both ways.
thehummingbird: Well I am a weirdo and I find it kind of funny. I mean I believe it is demeaning and unnecessary, but still very funny. Honestly though Comic Book art in general is more unachievable than even that of models, I think this can potentially contribute to why the number of females that read comic books is lower than males. I know personally that come into my room, and see my the covers on some of my comic books and judge that the whole book is purely fan service. This may be true in some regards, but it does also have a story so in a way this kind of art demeans itself more than girls, and takes away from the plot line. I personally love a lot overly sexualized art, not for that reason, but because I think it is very nice such as Adam Hughes Catwoman and Zatanna work.
The Dark Huntress: Adam Hughes makes it classy, though. He does it in a tasteful manner.
The Psyentist: Well, comics are artistic, so I give the artists some creative license to make sexy covers. One of my biggest concerns is that of practicality and normalcy. I knew women with breasts that big who were actually inhibited.
RazzaTazz: I actually owe Comic Vine for sort of changing my opinion on this. When I first got here I was pretty down on the exploitation of women in this way. On the surface it looks like voyeuristic vicariousness, but in fact a lot of active women dress in pretty revealing clothes. Figure skating which is watched primarily by women usually has the man in some sort of suit looking thing, whereas the woman skater is wearing bascially a mini-dress with lots of cleavage (though they wear that flesh coloured lycra in the interest of not freezing) I think overall also that women generally show a lot more skin than men do, so there is nothing inherently wrong with this in comics. What sort of bothers me is when we go to extremes. I think Power Girl for instance is above and beyond what might be considered reasonable, but if you bring that up to male fans they just say thats how she is depicted. I dont think they would say the same thing about a male characters whose sexual organs were exxagerated to a degree of four or five.
The Dark Huntress: It's comic books, though. There's always going to be a certain suspension of disbelief involved.
RazzaTazz: Sure and thats why the men are also portrayed unrealistically, I have seen some where a male character has more than six of the washboard abs.
The Psyentist: I really don't mind skimpy outfits... if it fits. I found a fan pic of Emma Frost sticking tape into her bustier to keep it on. Now, as a telepath, she can wear whatever she wants. But when she's fighting in the field... there is no way those are staying put. :P But I can honestly say if I was going to go into crime fighting... I'd want coverage. I'd want protection. But then again, part of comics is the glam. Bright coloured spandex.
thehummingbird: I watch anime so comic books are like seeing women in business suites.
The Psyentist: I guess one of my "problems" (as I said, it doesn't bother me much) with appearance is... it tends to limit diversity. We give the readers so much of what they want in fantasy appearance to get sales, that we neglect the beauty of other body types. So often, I see the same big-breasted hour-glass shape women in comics. Occasionally an artist might draw women with a more slender athletic build... but pear shapes are quite healthy for women. Just a random thought. I have a few on appearance.
About a month ago while on the bus from work a girl who works with me started talking about comic book movies. She was going on and on about how horrible they are. Clearly expressing that she reads comic books. After a while 8 other women joined in the conversation and they all showed signs thaty they read comic books, they knew their stuff. Then I joined the conversation and continued talking about it. After the long conversation ended I said: "and people think that girls don't read comic books". A older woman who had not been part of the conversation then stepped in and said: "Most of us girls are closet comic book readers". (I always like telling this story) Is this true? In the outside world are you all closet comic book fans?
Not at all. I am the most open kind of comic fan you can find. I wear a comic t-shirt every other day (or sometimes every day if it's that kind of week), I'm ALWAYS talking about comics whether the other person knows what I'm talking about, my desktop is a comic image, and I cosplay to go to comic cons.
RazzaTazz: No not at all, I am one of those people that believes strongly in a synthesis of ideas, and if part of what me me think the way I do is reading comics then I don't care who knows. And there are a lot of things in society which are a lot stupider than comics which don't get scrutinized and typecast the way that comics do. I read comics on the bus just as easily as I read a textbook or a suspense novel.
thehummingbird: I am openly a comic book reader, however, many people assume that I am not for whatever reason. In real life I am the only girl I know who reads comics, but this could be because of the above reason. Wait take that back me and this hipster I run into at many comic store events know each other fairly well. People in general though, I think immediately believe girls do not read comics, for whatever reason. Well not for whatever reason, but because of stereotypes.
The Psyentist: Eh, no. I'm not closeted concerning my comic interest. Does that mean people aren't still surprised that I read comics? Of course not. There's something bonding about finding a girl who is proud about her interest in comics. I draw comic pictures during class, hang them on my dorm room wall, wear T-shirts such as my beloved Dr. Doom tee. But even so... when girls come into contact with other geeks, this seems to get turned up. I don't think all of us hide it intentionally. I'll blab about X-Men to my friends all day if it comes up. It's just more likely to come up in certain contexts.
The Dark Huntress: No. Not at all. My sister abhors comic books and most of her friends don't care for them, either. However (and Geo, you'll enjoy this) one afternoon her friend Laura was over and saw one of my trades. She started asking me if I read comics and we ended up having a nice discussion about it. Turns out that she owns every issue of Ultimate Spider-Man and she actually introduced me to the comic shop that I now use and absolutely love. So there are more than people seem to know about or who admit it, but there not as common as guys who like comics.
I don't really talk about comics with my friends, simply because it never comes up.
Now I don't have to make an Ultimate Spider-Man plug!
Before somebody mentioned that they appreciate strong female interpretations. I for one like that a lot too. My favorite X-Man is Kitty Pryde. She is the most consistant character in the X-Men whether she's from an alternate universe (Days of the Future Past or Ultimate) or she is depicted in other media (X3, X-Men: Evolution or Wolverine and the X-Men) she continues to be appealing to me for her headstrong nature.
Do any of you have a similar "favorite" female character?
Icarusflies: I like Tanga, though she's a really new character. Though I also like Cassie Cain.
The Dark Huntress: Emma Frost is my absolute favorite character, X-23, Blink (Exiles) and Black Canary. Huntress and Rogue are also two of my favorites.
I will read pretty much any appearance of these characters.
The Psyentist: *looks over at DH, shouts* Emma Frost. I think she's a pretty strong character. She has a troubled past, she was evil, people still question her motives. She's intelligent and powerful. She's rich. Oh, yeah. And she's pretty hot. And I think she can be very manipulative even using her attractiveness to her benefit though never limited by it.
RazzaTazz: Do you really need to ask me that when I have reviewed over 300 issues of Wonder Woman? Still I understand your point, Wonder Woman has traditionally been written very poorly in my opinion. But there have been some bright spots, mostly since the 1980s reboot. I think my favourite ever depiction of a female Diana was when Doctor Psycho had corrupted the mind of an unborn child to kill its mother. Diana communed with Artemis (who is goddess of midwifery) and then sort of entered the womb with the baby (figuratively of course) and cleansed it of this psychological poison. That was one moment when I thought, yes they did this right.
RazzaTazz: I am probably not doing it justice, it was really beautifully written, it was around issue #56 vol 2.
thehummingbird: I would say Catwoman and Harley Quinn. Especially Harley every time I read anything with her in it I love it immediately, she is easy to right for and a very bright character.
This has been a very interesting Roundtable discussion. I just have one last question for all of you. Say the tables were turned and the majority of comic book readers were girls, would the comic book industry be the same?
RazzaTazz: Its kind of an abstract question, because so many male fans like the medium because of what it brings to them. I don't want to criticize my own gender here, but I think if it was a lot more female readers, the content would have to change to something I might not like as much. I remember in one issue of Elektra once (the volume from the 1990s) there was an issue with a cutout version of E with cutout outfits, and you could mix and match them like a doll. My initial reaction was to burn the issue and forget it ever existed, but I was not yet old enough to play with matches.
Icarusflies: No…let's face it, while we're all awesome, there are those that are…less awesome. They are the young adult novel lovers, the 'bodice ripper' fans, and the teen angst people. Comics would reflect that with more romance (bleh) and less actual plot development, time travel, and punching things.
The Dark Huntress: Maybe. I go by the theory that people don't choose stories based on what sex they are, that that doesn't really play a huge role. That it's an individual's own taste that leads them to choose which comics they pick up and not whether that book stars a male or a female or is a genre that is geared towards a certain sex. So I think that as long as good stories are being written and people are picking up what they feel is a good story, that things would remain somewhat similar.
The Psyentist: My mind just exploded. Not really. Hm... I think maybe stories would be more interpersonal and relational... but that's coming from a hermit who learns about people from studying psychology. :P Perhaps internal conflicts might take the stage more often. Maybe men wouldn't be quite as bulky. I have no idea. I'd like to think it wouldn't change, that the comic book industry is based more on individual fans and artists as human beings rather than genders.
RazzaTazz: I mostly agree with DH & Psy but then there would still be market forces and publishers would have to think of what people would want to buy without actually knowing what they wanted to buy.
thehummingbird: The industry would not be the same, not only would the writing style be changed, but also the merchandising. For one if the comic book industry was intended to appeal more strongly to the female gender then I can almost guarantee it would not appeal to most of the girls here as well as the males. Similar to why comic's now appeal more strongly to males because of certain aspects of the culture, most of these aspects would have to be changed and it would no longer possess, I believe a lot of the quirkiness that is welcomed as of now. Some of the main aspects that would change would probably focus around the way female characters are portrayed and as much as I hate to admit it, I have a feeling a lot more would revolve around relationship issues rather than saving the world. It is the same as was brought up earlier with the difference between shounen and shojo anime. It would not be the same though.
Well this has certainly been amazingly insightful! Thank you girls for joining me and letting sit here with the lot of you even though I am not a girl.
Care to say your farewells?
The Dark Huntress: This is DH signing out. I'm about to go imbibe in some chocolate milk for my poor sore throat :(
RazzaTazz: Thanks for reading. I just want to end on the note that I am not a pegasus ... wait a minute ... was that supposed to be a unicorn? ... ok I am not a Pegacorn (or a Unicus).
The Psyentist: So... I'm going to go back into my own world where there is no gender! Everything is blood and butcher knives. Er... flowers and rainbows. *waves, scurries away, and hides under her rock*
thehummingbird: -bows- Thank you for allowing me to join you tonight! I am off to comfort the poor offended unicorns who have become sad because of those who doubt their existence! -THB disappears into a puff of smoke with an orange in hand-
Icarusflies: And Icarusflies logging off…>cue anthem of Icarustopia<
Well like I said this was awesome. I am now going to get my "I survived an All-Girls RT" T-Shirt now.
This is sora_thekey aka Geo signing off. Peace!
Special thanks to xerox-kitty for helping me edit this Roundtable post.
-- Geo (sora_thekey) 24/7 geek! -- Follow me on Twitter: @sora_thekey