SirMethos's forum posts

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#1 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

OP has specified that it's OdinForce Thor.

Either mismatch, or spite.

I'm leaning towards the latter.

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#2 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

@firestorm808"Please elaborate on why you believe it is not like a sphere."

At which point, exactly, have I said that it's not a sphere, or that I believe it's not a sphere. Try actually reading what I wrote.

"The rock is not actually a perfect sphere(not even close), so your math is off."

I've added the emphasis. (I'll post pictures at the bottom to show the difference).

The fact that it's not a perfect sphere(which is what the formula calculates) means that the math is off.

It's not necessarily off by a huge margin, but off nonetheless.

"Therefore, this feat directly contradicts what the 40 Ton feat supposedly is. The only way it would make sense is if the gravity on Grand Kai's Planet was higher. It may not be the same 10 times as North Kai's Planet, but it should be greater than Earth's."

And yet, as I demonstrated, claiming that we are talking about mass, rather than weight, directly contradicts what is actually on panel, in both the manga and the anime.

So, we're left with one of three conclusions.

1. The manga/anime contradicts itself. Which would mean that technically, even though we are disagreeing, we're both right.

2. The manga/anime does not actually contradict itself, both the feat and the statements from the Kai are valid. Which would mean that your math is significantly off, likely in the density of the rock.

Or 3. The Kai don't actually know what they're talking about. Which would mean that any statements from the Kai at least, if not characters in general, would need to be discarded as reliable sources of information. Which, in turn, would invalidate a ton of other things that are generally used to make calculations about the power in the DB universe(such as Kai's statement about the South Galaxy, in the first Broly film).

I'm kinda curious about which of the 3 you think it is.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Actually looking at the two pictures should show the difference. The first is what the formula actually deals with, the second is the rock in question.

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#3 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

There is nothing to indicate that Thor has the ability to "manipulate lightning to his will".

The only thing that has been shown is that he has the ability to summon, absorb(sorta) and redirect lightning.

In the Avengers movie, we see him summon lightning, then after a few seconds, channeling the power of multiple lightning strikes, in a single continuous bolt(which forks out as lightning tends to do).

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Note that despite lightning continuously striking the tower where Thor is located, the (metal)tower does not seem to take any damage, aside from shattered windows.

In his fight against Iron Man, we see the same thing, Thor summons lightning onto himself for a few seconds, then redirects/channels the energy towards Iron Man.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that Thor can actually control the 'temperature' generated by his lightning, the closest we get is channeling the power of multiple lightning strikes, into a single, larger, lightning bolt.

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#4 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

@firestorm808:

First of all, the formula you're using is the formula for the volume of a sphere.

The rock is not actually a perfect sphere(not even close), so your math is off.

Second, if you actually read the manga(or look at the scan provided in the OP), South Kai actually specifically refers to weight just one page before the 10/40 ton comment.

He also makes the same comment, referring to weight, in the anime.

The conversation:

South Kai: "Is he the best in the North? How much weight is he holding?"

North Kai: "Oh, not that much." "Only about 2 tons."

South Kai: ~EH!?~ ~2 tons!?~

North Kai: "Are you surprised?"

South Kai: "Um... not really."

North Kai: "Hey, Goku! Want something heavier?"

Goku: "What? Oh, ok." "How much more?"

North Kai: "How about... 10 tons?"

South Kai: ~10... 10 tons...!~ ~You've got to be kidding!~

Goku: "10 tons?" "No way, that's too much." "It's impossible!"

South Kai: "Ok. I'll make it 10 tons." "Heck, I'll make it 40 tons." "I'm not joking either."

North Kai: "Just do it."

South Kai: "I'm not responsible for any injuries..." "There!"

---

Note that the ~instead of quotation marks indicate thoughts, rather than words.

---

So we're back to my original question, does South Kai(and North Kai) not know how gravity works?

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#5 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirmethos:

That said, even if there is no evidence to suggest that Nul has actually lost any powers on gaining the hammer empowerment, he simply doesn't have the feats to demonstrate that he is more powerful.

I was actually gonna reply, but when I saw this, I assume you agree he is not more powerful so there is no reason for me to go over it. If you want to know why I think he is weaker, read my post above yours where I countered Brony's post.

Eh, sorta kinda.

I acknowledge the distinction between 'on paper' and 'feats'. You can see this in a lot of my responses on various battles, where one character would win 'on paper', while the other one would win going by 'feats'.

Going by feats, yes I agree that Nul is not more powerful than the Green Scar. Green Scar/WWH/WBH has considerably more impressive feats than Nul.

But on paper, there is nothing to indicate that he is weaker. There is no evidence to suggest that he has lost any abilities, when he was powered up by the hammer.

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#6 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

"Nul is not Hulk + Asgardian magic. Nul is Hulk + Asgardian Magic - the thing that makes him special and powerful."

"Standard Hulk is powered by his emotions while Nul is powered by Asgardian magic."

That's not entirely true.

1. The evidence suggests that Hulk is powered by radiation that he absorbs, not simply "his emotions". This is a good part of the reason for why both WWH/WBH and the Maestro are so much more powerful than the 'regular' versions of Hulk.

WW/WBH absorbed the radiation from the explosion that destroyed Sakaar, while Maestro absorbed radiation left from a nuclear war a century before his appearance in the comics(on his own 'earth').

This is further backed by the fact that Hulk is known to radiate Gamma Radiation, something which increases the angrier he gets.

2. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Nul no longer possesses Hulk's ability to absorb radiation, nor that he no longer emits Gamma radiation. So that particular part of his power is still the same as before.

The only thing you could, with some degree of success, argue for is that Nul is a relatively emotionless being. And with little to no emotional fluctuations, there would be no increase in the radiation produced by his body, and thus no increase in power(compared to Hulk who, emotionally, is about as stable as nitroglycerin).

-----------

That said, even if there is no evidence to suggest that Nul has actually lost any powers on gaining the hammer empowerment, he simply doesn't have the feats to demonstrate that he is more powerful.

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#7 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

I always find it funny, when people make the argument that the 40 ton strength feat, during the Buu saga, was actually 400 tons(due to gravity).

The people who want to make that argument, just has to explain one thing.

South Kai specifically says that he is putting 40 tons on Goku. So, does South Kai not know how gravity works?

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#8 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh... so much wanking, on both sides.

No, D.S. did not throw "an infinite amount of punches". This was a statement from a normal human, a being that is not in any way qualified to make accurate statements at that level.

A more accurate way to put it would be to say that D.S. and Uriel exchange attacks so fast that it seems like an infinite amount to a normal human.

The only accurate statement we have at that general level of combat speed was D.S. and Uriel exchanging millions(plural) of attacks per second. This was while D.S. had the Dragon knight Lucifer armor/form, before D.S. and Uriel got a 1000x power boost.

The only other impressive speed feat was D.S. blitzing Conlon, so fast that a Seraph wasn't even able to see the attack. And this feat is only impressive due to the author statement(equivalent of databook) that Seraphs can travel "beyond the speed of light.

The calculations on the speed of Seraphs, comes from the fact that they were able to travel from the center of the Milky Way to Earth within 4 years(we don't know the exact time it took). Which puts their minimum speed at around 7000 times the speed of light.

That said, yes D.S. does have speed feats(as demonstrated above).

D.S. had/has 5 different forms, with each new form being considerably more powerful than the last.

First was the original(pre-dark angel) form. In that form his best speed feat was deflecting a super-sonic attack.

Then came the Dark Angel form. This was the form in which he blitzed Conlon, faster than a Seraph could see it.

Then came the Majin form(with wings). This was the one he unlocked after gaining the 7 Judas Pain shards. And the one where he exchanged millions(plural) of attacks per second, with Uriel.

Then came the Dragon Knight Lucifer armor/form. This one came after a 1000x power boost. This was the form with the "infinite punches" statement from a normal human.

Finally is the Adam Darkness form. He got this form after the DKL armor broke down. He has no notable speed feats in this form.

In terms of strength, he had a 100k ton feat in the first form, but no actual quantifiable feats in his later forms.

In terms of durability he tanked nuclear bomb level attacks in his second form. In his third form he survives attacks from Uriel's Augoeides, which was stated to have enough power to "destroy this whole galaxy". In his fourth form he survives an attack from Uriel's Augoeides again, but after Uriel has had a 130x power increase. In his fifth form he has no notable durability feats.

It should be noted that his regeneration allows him to survive as long as a single one of his Eternal Atoms is still intact(they are located in 3 different planes of existence, the physical, the spiritual, and the soul).

In terms of raw power and destructive capabilities, he is at multi-galaxy busting level, but no more than that, and even that is only in his final 2 forms(the judas pain is stated as having "the power to destroy an entire galaxy", and while he only had 7 out of 8 shards, his fourth form(dragon knight) amped his power by 130x, and his fifth form was even more powerful than that, though no specific level of power increase was stated).

Bottom line/TL;DR: Yes, D.S. has speed feats(claiming otherwise is pure ignorance, or insane lowballing), yes he is FTL(by a considerable degree), no he did not throw "infinite attacks"(that's pure wanking). Yes he is (multi)galaxy busting. No, he does not throw "big bang level attacks", that's either intentional wanking, ignorance, or a misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the facts.

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#9 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathmetal:

1. "if he uses judas pain it takes a huge toll on his body and soul resulting in existence erasure"

That 'limitation' was stated by characters on-panel. Characters that have proven... less than reliable.

The same character also stated:

"While granting almost god-like powers to the user, it also consumes the body and the soul until nothing's left of the user."

"That cursed jewel can crush D.S." "And D.S. will cease to exist forever"

However, D.S. actually did use the jewel. And guess what, it didn't actually have much of a negative effect, at least not permanent ones. He used the full jewel to summon the Dragon knight Lucifer armor, which boosted his power by a factor of several thousands.

Later though, the armor broke down, and D.S. achieved the 'Adam Darkness' form, which was even more powerful than the DKL armor/form, without any of the drawbacks.

i.e. he still has all the power of the jewels(and more), but no longer causes pain to use his power, or run the risk of dying(I'll post scans at the bottom).

The limitation(s) of the jewel being stated on panel.
The limitation(s) of the jewel being stated on panel.
The Adam Darkness form
The Adam Darkness form

The Dragon Knight Lucifer form/armor.
The Dragon Knight Lucifer form/armor.
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#10 Posted by SirMethos (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

@mee09:

""Watch Dragonball Super. Astral Zamasu by himself encompassed the equivalent of AT LEAST 72 of our Universes before Zeno destroyed him and that was not his limit. Darsh wouldn't know what to do against an opponent like that except die."

That's... nice, I suppose. But I'm not really seeing any offensive feats in that.

Encompassing any number of universes is not a feat that's actually useful in combat. So, what are his actual destruction and/or durability feats?

Also, a minor nitpick. Being a Dragonball character, I'm not exactly sure how he was encompassing the equivalent of any number of our Universes. Considering that the Dragonball universe itself is a lot smaller than ours.

"Beerus energy can bypass hax and still erase you from existence even if you have legit toonforce. So long as his opponent is massively weaker than him (which Darsh is)."

I don't suppose you have some kind of actual evidence to back that up?

To paraphase a quote: Show me the feats.

"The only thing that has been questioned about his destructive capability. Is if he could have destroyed Immortal Zamasu due to his immortality granted to him by Super Shenron. We will likely never know the answer to this. Champa is his brother and can do the same. However he is JUST a bit weaker than Beerus."

Again, show me the feats. I'm seeing a whole bunch of claims, and not a single scan or video to actually back it up.

"Vegito was completely dominating Merged Zamasu. His power was comparable to Beerus own at that point."

That's... nice. And which feats does he have that demonstrates him being capable of putting Dark Schneider down?