Silver2467

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Silver2467

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Edited By Silver2467

@shootingnova said:

@silver2467: True. A lot of NR eras (especially the Bantam Era) were adventures, of course, but too many of them were about the same thing or dragged on.

This is sometimes true. One of my major complaints with some of these stories is completely pointless side-stories that contribute absolutely nothing to the plot. The best example of this, in my opinion, is Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy. There are some enjoyable parts of that trilogy, but one of its flaws is the little side-quest that Jacen and Jaina have running around alone through the streets of Coruscant in Dark Apprentice (IIRC). What did it have to do with the overall plot? What did it contribute to Daala's plans? What did it have to do with Kyp and Luke's other students? Nothing. It was just there to be there. I really like Jacen and Jaina, but they should be incorporated into the plot in a way that makes sense, not just run the plot off on some needless tangent. Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin's involvement in the Corellian trilogy was more enjoyable, but that series is still just average overall, in my opinion. Had some good elements, had some not so great elements. Just okay.

@shootingnova said:

While TCOPL is hardly revolutionary (despite having a standing legacy in the EU), it's definitely a refreshing change from the norm. I'd easily hand it the advantage over, say, any of the Black Fleet Crisis novels.

I would agree that TCoPL is better than the BFC trilogy, but as with Courtship, in spite of all its flaws, I still do like the BFC trilogy as a whole. Not great and riddled with problems, but there were things I appreciated about it, one of them being the whole idea of Luke going on a journey for self-discovery and purpose, which is an idea that the BFC trilogy didn't execute perfectly but is an idea worth trying. One of the reasons I like that idea is because it makes it so that the plot is no longer revolving around Luke solving some galactic crisis again; it just has him in introspection about his placement, something similar to what the conclusion of The Unifying Force suggested would have happened after the Vong War (which, unfortunately, Denning and co. decided wasn't a good idea and went back to just having Luke solving galactic crises). I've long felt that a good novel about Luke would be one where he isn't fighting another giant dark side threat or galactic crisis, just one where the conflict in the story comes from him honestly assessing what his function is and/or ought to be, a book that's more of a character study than a standard plot-driven novel. BFC made something an attempt at that with several problems, but I like the idea and some of its execution, even if it was basically fruitless in the end.

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Silver2467

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Edited By Silver2467

It's been a while since this was posted; so opinions on this subject may be a little different now. But responding to the blog as it is, I agree with this interpretation. Gauging character powers through different mediums has always been a tough project. Characters like Anakin, for instance, have appeared in so many different stories across just about every medium we could think of, and that has created some inconsistencies with him. Someone like Luke, who has a number of rather hilarious inconsistencies in terms of his own powers, the writers usually try to hand-wave those discrepancies away by pointing out that Luke usually holds back his powers (but I won't waste anyone's time here by talking about how Denning and co. basically undermined the climax in The Unifying Force by continuing on with this "Luke has nightmares of the dark side and doesn't want to use too much power" nonsense). But this is why identifying which version of a character we're analyzing in a thread (Legends/EU, canon, films-only, etc.) is important, because sometimes the various portrayals are noticeably different.

More difficult too are threads that stipulate that feats for a character can be drawn from both "Canon" and "Legends" sources. This is difficult because the two universes are both separate with regards to concepts of abilities but also just separate with regards to stories. Son of Dathomir is a good example, because in that comic, as you pointed out ILS, Grievous in SoD appeared much like he did in the EU before TCW was aired. TCW Grievous is a cowardly, mostly unimpressive representation of the character. The fact that TCW completely retconned Grievous' EU origin into a totally different backstory basically makes Legends/EU Grievous and TCW Grievous entirely different characters; they bear very little similarity, their differing power levels being the least of their disparity. (Not to be overly tangential, but Son of Dathomir also retconned a few other past details. Maul being Talzin's son is a retcon from what Darth Plagueis and Restraint told us of his parentage, and SoD also changed when in Maul's life Sidious inducted him. It shows the disparity of Legends and Canon works in that their continuity really cannot coexist. They have nothing to do with one another, for the better part.)

Good write up as a whole. Navigating this whole issue of character powers across separate lore pieces and mediums can be a challenge, but I think your system of basically being very specific of which version of any character is being used is the best method of determining it.

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Edited By Silver2467

Very pleased with this. Crimson Empire is a great series, and I really like Kanos and Carnor Jax. Good job.

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@shootingnova: Understandable, but if you don't mind indulging me, what about your opinion on this has changed?

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Edited By Silver2467

Insightful case, Nova. It can be interesting to isolate the specific times in which Plagueis and Sidious have been stated to increase in power. After taking Sidious as his apprentice, Plagueis had increased and grown beyond his condition when he killed Tenebrous as he began to take steps toward his larger goals. Some years following the Maladian assassination attempt, by TPM Plagueis was dependent on life support but still, as noted by Sidious, possessed of incredible power. His discoveries and control of midi-chlorians and the Force as a whole improved throughout his life until his death.

The prologue for Darth Plagueis exposits on how Sidious was strengthened more than ever before and subdued the dark side for his own immediately upon Plagueis' death. Later on, we find more examples that tell us his power grew. For reference's sake, the earliest example that I know of that Sidious has been named the most powerful Sith Lord was at the time of AotC.

Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

This part of The Complete Visual Dictionary is in the section on Attack of the Clones, the earliest time in which Sidious is attributed such power, reiterating your point that, to our knowledge, Sidious was not named the most powerful Sith by TPM. It's interesting though that this same quote says that Palpatine's strength continues to grow (this could be in reference to his plots and resources as well, but the preceding context seems to imply innate power), which suggests that he was more powerful by RotS.

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Also great to hear you haven't forgotten me :)

Not at all, my friend. Good to hear from you too.

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Edited By Silver2467

Great post, Nova. I agree with everything you said, especially the conclusion. If Dooku wins, I wouldn't put him past 6/10, but generally, I would call this a 5/10 split.

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Late in the game, but very good write-up, Nova. If I were to add anything to your point, it would be that Anakin has a history of uncontrolled emotion hindering his powers. This has been demonstrated in several other stories such as the Republic series and Labyrinth of Evil. So Anakin's CIS impeding his powers is a very strong point on your part. That in conjunction with their familiarity with each other's fighting forms, and I agree with you completely about why this duel ended the way it did.

Pertaining to the RotS novel and the junior novelization, I would be more inclined to accept the RotS novelization as the more valid source because of Lucas' involvement in it (his personal editing). But that's just me. This does not mean the junior novel is meaningless or anything.

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