@cheth: Its basically the same as my Warrior tiering, but with magic users. So yeah, more a ranking of power / who would win in a mass free-for-all than knowledge (though I figure those who are high in one are usually high in the other)
@cheth: Ah. Then that means I can probably knock Nagash down to Mortal Sigmar's tier. As for Mortkin, I think he's already in the 26-50 range, so he's probably already good where he is.
Mortkin stalemated Valkia yes, but that was before the conquests which made him truly famous. And the point wasn't that Valkia could be everchosen, its that the chaos gods wanted Mortkin to be everchosen in stead of Archaon who was currently in possession of some of the everchosen treasures already.
Fair enough, though fame =/= skill. I'd argue his skill level remained static even if his fame grew. Also, couldn't it be argued that Valkia also improved over time? In which case, they would still be about even.
Well I personally think that we should take the ballista shot, which we have full context of, as a showing of his durability over his death, which we know so little about and has negative context. It was in the middle of a duel, so maybe he was already weakened. It was a projectile we know nothing about, except it was noted to be "fell" which in fantasy settings usually refers to sorcery. And we don't know who hurled it, a superhuman orc, a demon, etc. maybe he didn't have his helmet on at the time and got a spear through his eye. We can't know. Imo we should use the clear showing over the unclear one.
Fair enough. I might bump pre-GK Gilles up a tier.
Nagash definitively is a good duelist, but I doubt he's quite on that level. Although still impressive since Nagash was also severely weakened at the time
You could say it, but it seems intuitively wrong at least imo that the everchosen who challenged Sigmar was the weakest by so much he's sub aligned champions. Though like i said thats just my take :)
Well to be fair, it was Mortal Sigmar rather than Sigmar when he came back during the End Times / had ascended to godhood (unless I'm making a lore error here)
Vlad proclaimed Abhorash the greatest duelist and he without a doubt is. But considering how important dueling is to vampires I still think it should count. Vlad also managed to fight the greatest demon of Nurgle fairly well while weakened.
Vlad had to kill him with magic since the fight started with Harkon pinning him under his dragon. The fact that Harkon was unwilling to challenge him in a duel directly despite favouring fighting on his own would suggest he feared Vlad if anything imo
If Vlad fought Plaguefather while weakened, that would scale him roughly to Louen, which is indeed very good.
Harkon is said to be the greatest of the Blood Dragons behind Abhorash. If true, he's definitely still among the best of the Vampire's melee fighters.
Mortkin should probably be above Valkia, the chaos gods wanted to make him everchosen at the same time Archaon was gathering his relics
Whether slightly above or perfectly equal (and their fight suggests the latter), they would still be on the same tier. Being slightly above or below someone doesn't necessarily put you on a completely different tier. And since Valkia is firmly Khorne-aligned, she would never have been an Everchosen candidate, since they have to represent Chaos Undivided. I don't think that proves Mortkin is better in combat.
It was pre-green knight Gilles. Also I found out that it wasn't an arrow at all, it was a thrown arrow that hit him in the middle of a duel with an orc warboss
So that makes sense with the bastila feat, he gets hit by a hurled weapon (could be a throwing spear or similar) while fighting an orc warboss. Which means it could have been thrown by a superhuman orc as well
Hm. Seems odd that Bretonnia Knights would become 100% anti-arrow because of a throwing spear incident.
In any case, I'd argue being felled by a throwing spear is still comparable to Taurox being killed by Markus Wulfhart's arrows. If anything the latter impresses me slightly more. Of course, its also wildly inconsistent with tanking a ballista shot. Hm...
Nagash had his magic against Sigmar. But I don't necessarily mind Nagash being high up, just don't think he should be above Settra and Alcadizaar who outperform him in melee only. (Except God Nagash who potentially could overpower Alcadizaar physically)
Didn't know who Alcadizaar is. As for Nagash, my understanding is that it wasn't just magic, that his level of sword skill was such that he legit challenged Sigmar to a degree that surprised the latter.
Oh I would definitively agree each Everchosen is different in power. But I wouldn't say that other champions would be > any of them. Especially since for example Arbaal lived at the same time as most if not all of them, and it seems counterintuitive for any chaos champion to be above the present everchosen.
Was he alive at the same time as Morkar? If not, then I could say he's still above Morkar. Similarly, Vardek Crom was after Morkar's time, so there shouldn't be a contradiction there.
Vlad is mainly a leader and is known to be a bit careless due to his ring yeah. But he's definitively a great warrior and duelist who can casually stomp Mannfred seconds after being ressurected and not even kowing whats going on, casually disarm Isabella while she's infested by a greater demon who directly counters undead, and is noted as the greatest vampire in the entire world by Nagash himself. Especially Harkon being above him seems unlikely.
But that's contradicted by Vlad himself proclaiming Abhorash "the best of them", and indeed his skills are vastly better. In any case, Vlad being the greatest Vampire is too vague a term; it could refer to being the greatest as a leader (which he is), the greatest as a combination of might and magic (as Abhorahs lacks the latter), etc. I don't think we can just assume Vlad is a top tier swordsman based on that quote.
As for Harkon, Vlad did kill him, but through magic. That he went that route might suggest he didn't fancy his odds against him in melee.
While fair on it not really being low, and in afterthought I might actually agree she should be in that tier, and moreso disagree with some of the people placed above her, I would be hesitant to say she's Sigvald's equivalent, as she's not just a chaos champion but a demon princess too, and I would say her performance against Mortkin (who imo should be added to the list as well) puts her well above his level.
Well regardless, just shy of the Top 25 is where she's at. Didn't know who Mortkin was, but I can add him to that same tier.
Was it ever confirmed to be a "common" arrow? While we do know it was an arrow we have seen plenty of enchanted arrows and the likes, the shooter was unknown and considering Gilles survived being hit directly by a ballista it seems unlikely it was a regular one.
Did he take the ballista hit as the Green Knight or before? Because Green Knight Giles is obviously superior to pre-Green Knight.
I kind of assumed it was a common arrow because of the level of intense disgust and shame Bretonnia felt over it. If it had been, say, an obviously magical arrow, that might have just turned Bretonnia off to magical projectiles. But the fact that they developed an intense hatred for ALL arrows, suggests to me it was something more mundane than, say, the super-arrows the Sisters of Twilight use.
I have forgotten all about Belegar fighting Skreech tbh. How did the fight go in rough terms?
Did I say Skreech? I meant to say Queek if I did. Queek beat Belegar and killed him, but the latter wasn't at his best at the time, and in an earlier encounter when Belegar wasn't tired or injured, he won, albeit not easily. So I kind of assume the two are comparable.
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