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Is Count Dooku weak to brute strength?

Probably going to be my last blog before I leave, so I wanted to address something that I've felt is generally misrepresented. This will be my analysis on Dooku's oft-cited weakness to physically powerful strikes/styles, which is true in part but largely overblown on the forums. I will be addressing the three fundamental arguments used to indicate the Count's susceptibility to brute physical force (if there are any others, let me know and I'll address them here), and then establishing that Darth Tyranus' physical strength is actually among the greatest in the mythos. There will be a mix of Canon and Legends material here, but this is mostly just to prove the point is true in both. My overall argument is the same in both Canon and Legends.

Old Age

Perhaps the easiest argument to make because it doesn't require any evidence or argument — Dooku's 83 years of age. For a human, you're pretty damn frail by this age.

This argument is debunked as easily as it is made. Dooku is not an ordinary human. He's an extremely powerful Force wielder, with access to Force augmentation that makes him superhuman. This should be easily deducible from his fights, but let's establish this with a couple of quotes for good measure.

Dooku has inhuman strength:

The count twisted the arm with which Vos still clutched his humming lightsaber, squeezing down with inhuman strength on the webbing between thumb and forefinger.

Source: Dark Disciple

The Count's physically fitter than most humans half his age (ie. very early 40's):

Physically, the Count's age was rarely a handicap. Deft as he had become with the Force-unimaginably more subtle than the boy who had watched water-skeeters in the Jedi gardens all those years ago-he wore his eighty-three standard years better than most humans half his age. He was still in superb physical shape, senses keen, health undiminished by even the memory of a cold.

Source: Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Tyranus enjoys paranormal strength and speed which he claims to be something beyond the Jedi (which strongly implies that he's actually stronger now, as an elderly Sith Lord, than he was a Jedi in his younger years):

The Sith saw no need to take on only young disciples, though they often did. Sometimes the training went smoother with disciples who had lived long enough to grow disillusioned or angry or vengeful. The Jedi, by contrast, were shackled by compassion. Their penchant for showing mercy, for granting forgiveness, for heeding the dictates of conscience, prevented them from giving themselves over to the dark side. From becoming as a force of nature itself, paranormally strong and quick, capable of conjuring Sith lightning, of exteriorizing rage, all without the need for the magic hand passes the Jedi were so fond of employing.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

To sum up, his fitness is better than most middle-aged men, and his strength and speed are not only superhuman but beyond that of most Jedi, including Dooku's own Jedi self. His old age is not a problem. Let's move on.

Savage Opress

The first argument to be substantiated by evidence and have any sort of validity to it, this argument refers to this infamous little sequence where Savage slams his lightsaber into Dooku's, sending the Count flying into a wall with enough force to jar Dooku's lightsaber out of his hand.

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A couple of things could be said at first glance. First of all, smashing your lightsaber into someone's blade like that doesn't send them flying, no matter how powerful your blow is. If it's strong enough, it'd knock the blade out of their hand. But what happened above seems like a telekinetic attack being integrated with the lightsaber hit, which is an entirely plausible reason for why Dooku would be sent flying; he simply wasn't expecting it, and Savage is of course a telekinetic of a prodigious degree. But of course, one might say that Star Wars doesn't fully align with real-world physics, which is true.

Regardless, even if you did interpret it to be strength alone, Dooku was obviously in a poor position. Every attack that Savage sent his way up to now has been dodged, not met head-on. The only reason the Count would suddenly decide to meet this attack head-on would be if he literally could not have dodged anymore. If he was in a position such that he couldn't dodge anymore when that was all he had been doing up to now, then he's clearly in a substandard position.

We know Savage isn't capable of just sending Dooku-level characters flying. Here he leaps at Ventress just as she recovers her lightsaber and has a tremendous advantage in leverage and positioning, yet Ventress still manages to hold strong against him:

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Of course, Dooku has repeatedly shown that he's Ventress' superior as far as strength goes:

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Logic would dictate that if Savage can't just send Ventress flying by smashing his saber into hers, then he can't do it to someone who's stronger than her. Of course, it's not just Ventress — Savage has failed to send Obi-Wan or Anakin flying with the raw force of his strikes as well, and everyone else he's fought. The point should be clear. Even assuming that this is a legitimate strength feat for Savage (which it's not), it's not consistent in the slightest. The feat is invalid on the grounds of inconsistency.

There's more. Let us look at how Dooku dueled Savage just days earlier (within the same episode, no less):

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Savage's attacks are effortlessly swept aside. Now sure, Savage spent those few days training, but sources tell us that he's only gained a crude mastery of the lightsaber, not to mention that his training would've generated an increase in skill as opposed to brute strength. If the force of his blows wasn't sufficient to faze Dooku just days earlier, then it stands to reason that they wouldn't suddenly send him flying. Sure, he grew and learned to apply his strength more effectively, but in no way does that justify the insane disparity between having your blows effortlessly slapped aside and sending someone flying on blade contact.

All in all, consistency is just not on Savage's side here. An abundance of evidence exists to deny the notion that he can simply send Dooku flying on blade contact, whether that be his inability to do so to weaker characters even with significant leverage advantages, or Dooku easily slapping aside his blows earlier on in the same episode.

Conclusion: Savage is not capable of sending Dooku flying on blade contact, and that should not be used as a strength feat for him. It's possible that Savage actually made use of telekinesis at the same time as swinging his blade, which caught the Count off-guard. Even if not, Tyranus was in a poor position when that happened, and it's not something Savage has ever replicated, even against weaker opponents. Please do not use this as proof of either Savage's strength or Dooku's susceptibility to physically powerful characters.

Anakin Skywalker

Here's the other case often used to argue Tyranus' proneness to brute strength. The crux of the argument is usually this passage from the Revenge of the Sith novelization:

Skywalker was all over him.

The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-

Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again.

He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.

That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker, and Dooku decided that under these rather extreme circumstances, it was at least arguably permissible for a gentleman to cheat.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Relevant sections underlined.

There's no real "debunk" here; Anakin is simply that much stronger than Dooku. But let's consider the context. This instance is isolated to the RotS novel (nothing remotely of the sort happens in other versions of RotS), and in the RotS novel, even before the fight on the Invisible Hand, Anakin is depicted as literally the strongest Jedi in the Order:

This is Anakin Skywalker:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.

He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Note that the reference to Anakin being "the fastest" in the preceding sentence means that there is no room for interpretation as to what "strongest" means here; it's referring to physical strength. So Anakin is even stronger than Yoda by this timeframe. On top of that, the Force was especially strong with Anakin on this day:

He had dreamed of capturing Grievous ever since Muunilinst—and now the general was close. So close Anakin could practically smell him... and Anakin had never felt so powerful. The Force was with him today in ways more potent than he had ever experienced.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

So the Force is unusually strong with Anakin (who is Yoda+ in strength) during his fight with Dooku. There's nothing wrong with Tyranus succumbing to that level of power. In no way are we dealing with a case of the Count's physical frailty here; we're dealing with a case of someone being so insanely strong that most elite characters (Maul, Obi-Wan, etc.) would succumb to the force of his blows in much the same way as Tyranus. To quote my old friend Silver2467, "this instance is the exception, not the rule". It does not establish any sort of precedent for Dooku tiring against strong duelists.

On another note, I'd like to bring up another misinterpreted quote from the RotS novel:

And only then did Dooku understand that he'd been suckered. Skywalker's Shien ready-stance had been a ruse, as had his Ataro gymnastics; the boy was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen. His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while also defending against a second attacker.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

The quote just says that Makashi lacks the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-on, and particularly in the context of Dooku vs Anakin (ie. a random joe using Djem So isn't immune to Dooku meeting their strength head-on). It is often said that this shows that Makashi has a particular weakness to kinetic power; that is never stated. The quote only says that Makashi is not a match for Djem So in kinetic power, and as Djem So is the form that produces the most kinetic power, this is to be expected. Obviously, the fluid, economic movements of Form II are not going to produce much kinetic power, but even so, every second person using a kinetic-heavy form doesn't suddenly get an advantage over Makashi.

The other cases with Anakin involve TCW, where in Season 4, Anakin demonstrates a degree of superiority to Dooku in saberlocks:

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Not much to say or deny here; TCW's just inconsistent. Later on in Season 6, Dooku pushes Anakin back in saberlocks:

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If we go by the route of using saberlocks as evidence, then Tyranus is the more favoured of the two. It's currently 3-3 for who's pushed each other back in saberlocks in TCW, but in film media (which is far more consistent than TCW), we have Dooku actually holding the advantage over Anakin in a saberlock in Revenge of the Sith, with Anakin pushing the Count back only once he becomes enraged and draws on the dark side:

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Even though there's no explicit film evidence for it, you might argue that Anakin was unsettled by Dooku's Dun Moch on account of the fact that it's portrayed that way in all the other renditions of RotS sans the comic. But even before Dooku starts talking, they're evenly matched in the saberlock; Anakin has no advantage. So that excuse, valid or not, doesn't work here.

Conclusion: Anakin in the RotS novel would've pummeled just about anybody with his strength there, including the likes of Obi-Wan and Maul, so Dooku's performance cannot be used as an indicator of his physical frailty. Citing the TCW S4 saberlocks as evidence doesn't work because later in S6 and RotS, Dooku actually gets the advantage in his saberlocks with Skywalker. Explain it however you want — Dooku holding back or underestimating Anakin in S4, Dooku improving after S4, or TCW simply being inconsistent — Tyranus has the edge in saberlock comparisons.

The Case For Tyranus

Now that we've proven that Dooku isn't physically frail by any means, we can start to compile evidence in favour of the good Count's physical strength. And there's an abundance of material in favour of Dooku. You can check out my respect thread for a full list of his strength feats, but here are some notable ones:

AotC Obi-Wan having difficulty holding against Dooku's strength, despite the fact that he was able to hold against Maul's strength ten years earlier in TPM:

He found himself hard-pressed to hold against the dark side-augmented strength of his opponent, even though his own abilities with the Force were far from slight.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File #49 (Relaunched)
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Dooku holding strong against the Force-enhanced strikes of Yoda, whose strength matches that of Palpatine (who has warded off the combined strength of Maul and Savage):

With a sudden burst of sheer power, Master Yoda flew forward, his blade working so mightily that its residual glow outshone even those of both of Anakin’s lightsabers when he was at the peak of his dance. Dooku held strong, though, his red blade parrying brilliantly, each block backed by the power of the Force, or else Yoda’s strikes would have driven right through.

Source: Attack of the Clones

Dooku matching Yoda in a saberlock for over ten seconds, even when diverting some of his strength to crush a crane. When he disengages, Dooku actually pushes Yoda back:

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Dooku casually repels strikes from Grievous, who has insane strength feats:

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Note that around this time, Dooku castigates Grievous for his use of power blows and that he usually does not have any trouble defeating Grievous in spars, so Grievous' strength is definitely not a problem for him:

"No, no, stop, stop," he yelled, coming to his feet and striding to the middle of the training circle, his arms extended to both sides. When he was certain that he had their attention, he swung to Grievous. "Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters." He called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air--a Makashi flourish. "Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Cin Drallig or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"

He flicked his blade quickly, ridding two of the guards of their staffs, then placing the glowing tip a millimeter from Grievous's death-helmeted visage. "Finesse. Artfulness. Economy. Otherwise, my friend, I fear that you will end up beyond the repair of even the Geonosians. Do you take my meaning?"

His vertically slit eyes unfathomable, Grievous nodded.

"I take your meaning, my lord."

Dooku withdrew his blade. "Again, then. With some measure of polish, if I'm not asking for too much."

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

Dooku "folds Skywalker in half" with a side-stamp and then kicks Obi-Wan (who in the RotS novel, is more durable than the interior walls of capital ships) with enough force to elicit a sharp crack analogous to the sound of a neck being broken (the novel later notes that Obi-Wan's body is "bonelessly limp"):

Before their pieces could even hit the floor Dooku was in motion, landing a spinning side-stamp that folded Skywalker in half; he used his last burst of dark power to continue his spin into a blindingly fast wheel-kick that brought his heel against the point of Kenobi's chin with a crack like the report of a huge-bore slugthrower, knocking the Jedi Master back down the stairs. Sounded like he'd broken his neck. Wouldn't that be lovely?

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Proof of Obi-Wan's insane durability in the RotS novel is seen when he suffers nothing more than a concussion from being smashed into a wall of the Invisible Hand so hard that the permacrete balcony above him buckled and collapsed onto him. It's outright said that Obi-Wan's more durable than the Invisible Hand's interior walls:

While Kenobi's bonelessly limp body was still tumbling toward the floor far below, Dooku sent a surge of energy through the Force. Kenobi's fall suddenly accelerated like a missile burning the last of its drives before impact. The Jedi Master struck the floor at a steep angle, skidded along it, and slammed into the wall so hard the hydrofoamed permacrete buckled and collapsed onto him.

...

He sprang to his feet and waved away the debris that had buried the body of his friend. Obi-Wan lay entirely still, eyes closed, dust-caked blood matting his hair where his scalp had split.

Bad as Obi-Wan looked, Anakin had stood over the bodies of too many friends on too many battlefields to be panicked by a little blood. One touch to Obi-Wan's throat confirmed the strength of his pulse, and that touch also let Anakin's Force perception flow through the whole body of his friend. His breathing was strong and regular, and no bones were broken: this was a concussion, no more.

Apparently Obi-Wan's head was somewhat harder than the cruiser's interior walls.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Dooku knocking out RotS Obi-Wan with a single kick:

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Dooku sending Anakin flying with a backwards kick using only a fraction of his power (he's choking Obi-Wan at the same time). Anakin ends up slamming into the wall with enough force to keep him down for several long seconds (enough for Dooku to hurl Obi-Wan across the room and collapse a balcony on him):

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Dooku holds the advantage over Anakin for thirteen seconds in a bladelock, which Anakin breaks only upon becoming enraged:

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So really, it would not be much of a stretch to put Dooku above Maul's level of physical strength in a blade-to-blade sense (obviously in a melee brawl Dooku would lose). His kicks against Obi-Wan have far more devastating consequences than Maul's (even with the metal legs, though you can argue that it's where Dooku hit Obi-Wan that made the difference as opposed to how hard), and his bladelocks against Yoda and Anakin are feats that Maul simply hasn't replicated. He strains AotC Obi-Wan with his strength when even TPM Obi-Wan was able to keep up with TPM Maul's strength. He casually repels blows from pre-TCW Grievous, whose strength feats rival, if not eclipse Maul's. And he holds strong against the strength of Sidious-tier opponents in battle.

Even if he isn't stronger than Maul, it's clear that blade-to-blade, the strength of characters of that calibre — Maul, Obi-Wan, etc. — poses no outstanding bodily threat to the Count. Tyranus is fully capable of engaging them in blade-to-blade combat without being at a disadvantage because of their strength.

Above all, we need to stop having any sort of negative connotations about Dooku's physicality because of his age. Yoda and Palpatine are also old, yet they'd curb Maul or Obi-Wan in a physical contest. The Force makes them superhuman; their age plays no factor whatsoever in a fight.

Can powerful, forceful blows interrupt the rhythmic flow of Makashi and disrupt Dooku's fighting? Absolutely. But nobody bar the likes of Yoda, Sidious, Vader etc. are coming into a fight against Dooku with any sort of meaningful strength advantage.

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