@blackknighting: Goku learned hakai and he only seen it ones xd. Manga Jiren might be weaker than anime jiren. he still is fast enuff to travel from one universe to another faster than a capsule could. Goku and Mr Roshi are plot trunks. lets hope he hypes 17 and frieza more than the anime did.
@scotchbear: Goku and Vegeta have both fought ssj blue tiers + jiren in their base form if i remember anime. without powerscaling this doesn't mean much. as they can lower theirpower level regardelles of what form they are in.
Only battle that a stronger character strugled against a much lower character is the battle between Mr Roshi and Jiren as Roshi became super strong for a brieve moment. unlike illogical nonsical powerscaling of the DB super anime. in DbS anime no matter how strong they get they still get trashed by a fodder character.
@mainjp: funny how toyatoro tried to imply Gohan's human side is stronger than his saiyan treats xd.
i hated that line from clash of the titans " i will defeat you like a human". after all that build up, before that scene it ruined the whole movie for me lol.
this ruins the "saiyan pride" that every full saiyan, and half breed used to boast about to enjoy battle. 40 years of dragonball down the drain xd.
@mainjp Both DBS Manga and DBS Anime s*ck. from now on anything lowballing Mr Roshi and the god of destructions, i consider non canon. Beerus rulez eventhough champa is better than him xd.
@mainjp: Roshi has a fortune telling sister, this must have enabled him to observe whis and Beerus xd. he could have found it out plenty of more ways, like mind reading goku and vegeta how the training went with Whis, see plenty of things that don't need explaination all this are simple things he could have done off screen. He is the Turtle hermit afterall xd.
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