Shamelesslysupportinaznballers

@Vance Astro said:

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

@dccomicsrule2011: If you don't consider MVPs then what do you judge by? Championships are more of a team accomplishments & while they certainly count, Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman is not better than the former MVP Karl Malone. People give out MVPs to the player they believe to be the best of the current year. Sure there may be politics involved but in the end, Jordan won 5 of them, Kareem had 6 & Magic had 3.

Kobe played for 17 seasons and he was only considered to be the best player of the current year one time. Heck you can even throw in Finals MVPs if you want and that still gives him only 3 . I don't know how people can consider a player to be the greatest nba player to play in the nba when he was only considered to be the best 3 out of the 17 years he played.

I don't consider MVPs or Championships when you're comparing two players of a different era because the type and style of play was so different. To be honest some of the older guys that people call all-time greats, I don't think they would have even survived in the current era. I don't think the level of physical power and athleticism was there.

Maybe those old timers couldn't play now but when they played, they made sure they were the best & they did so by getting MVPs, racking up the numbers & championships. The accolades back up their status of being the best of their time. Jordan didn't let Karl Malone, Hakeem, David Robinson, Clyde, Barkley get the best of him for that many years. He was able to stake claim to being the best of his generation.

Kobe has not. He had to share it with Shaq, Duncan, Lebron & the accolades backs up that statement

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Because MVP's is most of the time always goes to the best player on the best team tell me how did Steve Nash (who was never the best player in the NBA period) get MVP twice while the Mamba only got it once? MVP's does not measure the player on court play does.The fact that MJ only won it 6 times when he was the best player in the NBA most of the time pretty much proves my point that the MVP does not mean the best player for that year.

Sorry didn't mean to dodge the Nash question again but it's hard for me to say he didn't deserve it & I agree one of his should have belonged to Kobe. He was masterful, PHX was a great team, it was fun to watch and he clearly was the main reason behind it. It's hard for me to argue against someone who is probably the best shooter of all time and was having as many assists as he did. He deserved it.

But like I said, you have to consider everything, championships, mvps, records and right now I don't see Kobe being in the top 3 of all time. He needs 1 more championship to even be in the conversation of being GOAT

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers:

Going by how you do it that means Kareem is better then Mike right?

Kobe played for 17 seasons and he was only considered to be the best player of the current year one time. Heck you can even throw in Finals MVPs if you want and that still gives him only 3 . I don't know how people can consider a player to be the greatest nba player to play in the nba when he was only considered to be the best 3 out of the 17 years he played.

Because MVP's is more always goes to the best player on the best team tell me how did Steve Nash (who was never the best player in the NBA period) get MVP twice while the Mamba only got it once? MVP's does not measure the player on court play does.The fact that MJ only won it 6 times when he was the best player in the NBA most of the time pretty much proves my point that the MVP does not mean the best player for that year.

I'm not going to argue against anyone who says MJ is better because MJ was hands down the best player on his team each time his Bulls won a championship, Kareem was not.

But you look at the longevity of Kareem (he beat Wilt & the Bad boys of Detroit for a championship), his skills (skyhook?), his college career (3 NCAA championships) and that to me puts him slightly above MJ. That & my purple & gold colored lenses.

@King Saturn said:

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

@King Saturn said:

From 2004-2011, Wade never averaged less that 24 points per game... so Wade has consistently played at a high level... the only reason Wade has dropped down in stats the past few years is because he has to share the ball with the Greatest Basketball Player on the Planet ( Lebron James )... after Shaq left... Kobe never played with a player of the caliber of Lebron James.

Shaq was there for 3 years but in reality they only had 2 good years together. Lebron has been with Wade for 3 seasons.

So let's say Wade has been the man for 7 out of his 10 year career. In those 7 years how many of them were great? I count 2 & 1/2, his playoff run as a rookie with him leading the way & his next 2 years.

Then he stumbled until Lebron came along & now he plays 2nd fiddle while trying to fight through injuries for most of his career.

I don't know what you want me to say when I rank him where I did. Are you trying to tell me that Wade is the 3rd best SG to ever play the game?

Wade's only lackluster season was his Rookie Season in terms of numbers... even the years he was Hurt, dude was putting up quality stats. As far as where you rank him, that's up to you... I just thought that your reasoning of ranking Wade lower than Drexler, Iverson, West because he benefit from having Shaq on his team was not a good reason.

Maybe Drexler should not be above DWade but AI was MVP & had better longevity, West...come on buddy.

As far as Wade, sorry but if you're hurt...you're hurt. You're talking about ranking some of the greatest players in the league & if you havnt been playing or couldn't play to the best of your ability because you are hurt then sorry. If you don't want to count injuries then i'm going to rank Tracy McGrady's 4 good years above DWade.

@dccomicsrule2011: If you don't consider MVPs then what do you judge by? Championships are more of a team accomplishments & while they certainly count, Horace Grant or Dennis Rodman is not better than the former MVP Karl Malone. People give out MVPs to the player they believe to be the best of the current year. Sure there may be politics involved but in the end, Jordan won 5 of them, Kareem had 6 & Magic had 3.

Kobe played for 17 seasons and he was only considered to be the best player of the current year one time. Heck you can even throw in Finals MVPs if you want and that still gives him only 3 . I don't know how people can consider a player to be the greatest nba player to play in the nba when he was only considered to be the best 3 out of the 17 years he played.

@King Saturn said:

From 2004-2011, Wade never averaged less that 24 points per game... so Wade has consistently played at a high level... the only reason Wade has dropped down in stats the past few years is because he has to share the ball with the Greatest Basketball Player on the Planet ( Lebron James )... after Shaq left... Kobe never played with a player of the caliber of Lebron James.

Shaq was there for 3 years but in reality they only had 2 good years together. Lebron has been with Wade for 3 seasons.

So let's say Wade has been the man for 7 out of his 10 year career. In those 7 years how many of them were great? I count 2 & 1/2, his playoff run as a rookie with him leading the way & his next 2 years.

Then he stumbled until Lebron came along & now he plays 2nd fiddle while trying to fight through injuries for most of his career.

I don't know what you want me to say when I rank him where I did. Are you trying to tell me that Wade is the 3rd best SG to ever play the game?

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers:

I guess with how I worded it, Kareem just as a Laker wouldn't be better than Kobe but Kobe is not even 1/2 the player Kareem is.

I disagree Kobe is close to Kareem, in fact he could surpass Kareem in points all time as long as he plays the way he is now,he should surpass Kareem,but of course that's all up to Kobe to even play another 3-4 years even if he can still play at a high level.

1. Kobe will need to play a few more years in order to pass Kareem in points. We'll have this convo again if and when that happens.
2. Kareem has 5 more MVPs than Kobe
3. Kareem has 1 more championship than Kobe

I'm looking at those things and I have no idea how anyone can ever say Kobe is close to Kareem, let alone Jordan.

In order to be consider "the best", you need to win the award that solidifies you as the single best player in the NBA and that's the MVP. Kobe has how many?
Kareem on the otherhand....well I'll let you wikipedia it yourself.

I disagree the MVP is all most always given to the best player on the best team, Steve Nash was never better then Kobe neither was he ever the best player in the league yet he has 2 MVP awards.Kobe should have won MVP in 2005-06 but they gave it to Steve Nash,that was one of if not the biggest MVP robberies in NBA history.

Was 2005-2006 the 81 game year? I believe he was robbed during that year but at the same time I understand why he didn't get it. However when he finally did win it, I thought the award should have gone to CP3.

Either way, you give him another MVP & that's still 2. Sorry, I bleed purple & gold, have watched the Lakers since Kareem and Kobe to me is the 3rd best Laker to ever put on that uniform. Kobe to me is the most skilled player to ever put on the uniform but he didn't win as much or lead like Kareem or Magic & the accolades backs me up.

@King Saturn said:

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

@King Saturn said:

I wonder about these other guys in the league... like what about Dwayne Wade ? He is a SG, and we know Jordan and Kobe are over him... but in the history of the NBA who else is a better SG than D Wade ?

Wade to me only have had 3-4 great years in the NBA while benefiting from just being at the right place at the right time. I wouldn't put him above Drexler, West or Iverson.

Okay, but technically you could say Kobe benefit from being at the right place at the right time as well... because both Wade and Kobe had Shaq early on in their careers... so I don't know if that is a solid argument.

Kobe definately benefited (and so did Jordan, Magic Bird etc) but like I said, Wade only really had 3-4 great years. Kobe consistently has been playing at a high level year after year while playing through injury. Wade unfortunately has not.

@King Saturn said:

I wonder about these other guys in the league... like what about Dwayne Wade ? He is a SG, and we know Jordan and Kobe are over him... but in the history of the NBA who else is a better SG than D Wade ?

Wade to me only have had 3-4 great years in the NBA while benefiting from just being at the right place at the right time. I wouldn't put him above Drexler, West or Iverson.

@dccomicsrule2011: I guess with how I worded it, Kareem just as a Laker wouldn't be better than Kobe but Kobe is not even 1/2 the player Kareem is.

In order to be consider "the best", you need to win the award that solidifies you as the single best player in the NBA and that's the MVP. Kobe has how many?

Kareem on the otherhand....well I'll let you wikipedia it yourself.