serpinethegreen

@erkan12:

Two things:

Anakin was already a child killer when he went to Mustafar, Obi-Wan however, as a Jedi, he still had a moral code, and he was fighting against his ''brother'' ...

Kenobi's hindrance > Anakin's hindrance

Obi-Wan wasn't as hindered as Anakin:

In the ROTS novel, Kenobi lets go of his attachment of Anakin, and fights him like anyone else (pretty much):

The man he faced was everything Obi-Wan had devoted his life to destroying: Murderer. Traitor. Fallen Jedi. Lord of the Sith. And here, and now, despite it all... Obi-Wan still loved him.Yoda had said it, flat-out: Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must, but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best friend walked.

Obi-Wan knew there was, in the end, only one answer for attachment...

He let it go.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

The ultimate visual guide states that Obi-Wan letting go drastically altered the fight (which implies that if Obi-Wan had fought hindered, he would have died).

As every step becomes more perilous and Vader's attacks more ferocious, Obi-Wan realizes that he still cares for Anakin, and that the only way he can defeat his opponent is to let go of his feelings for his former friend. When Obi-Wan releases this emotional attachment, the battle turns for the Jedi.

Source: The Ultimate Visual Guide

Infact, TRODV makes it even more obvious what Obi-Wan's state of mind was:

Obi-Wan triumphed because he went to Mustafar with a single intention in mind: to kill Darth Vader.

Source: Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

Whereas Anakin was described as vulnerable:

Anakin had still been between worlds then, and vulnerable.

Source: Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

And even then only lost due to overconfidence/stupidity:

It was Anakin's overconfidence, fueled by the dark side, which led to his defeat. A mistimed leap over Obi-Wan allowed him to swiftly cut Anakin, leaving him disabled on the shore of a lava river.

Source: Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force

So, no, Obi-Wan was not the more hindered (Infact, he ranges from losing his hindrance, and never being hindered). BTW, I don't know why you used Anakin killing children as a reason why he would be less hindered. Anakin didn't want to kill them, if anything it would just add to his guilt (unless you think Anakin had no conscience

Sort of... Palpatine doesn't shoot people with lightning when his back is turned. That's not the best way to shoot someone with lightning, I think you would agree with me on this. So it's obvious that Palpatine wasn't at his best there. Vader cheap-shotted him from behind, and nerfed Palpatine's lightning still manages to kill him.

Darth Vader had just lost his hand, and had alot of exposed circuitry. I think it's arguable that this is part of the reason why the lightning killed him.

It says BFR allowed, why can't the Destroyah hit him into orbit?

@zetsumoto:

@sirfizzwhizz: Manga is stupid because random people don't understand how tiers work?

That's a fair point. I think in this scenario it's better to hate the players than the game (the game being manga/anime and the players being fanboys or cheap....well.....players). Besides, there are better reasons to dislike manga. I'm personally not a huge fan of reading right to left (it makes absolutely no sense in English), and the lack of colour gets old really fast.

But that's just my opinion, some people love that crap.

@smxlr8:

No reason? I was replying to a specific thing he wrote, that's why I quoted it. A better question is why you felt the need for me to explain what I wrote to another viner.

@sirfizzwhizz:

@smxlr8: 99% Manga follows the theme of a character who is human level who get stronger and faster till there Goku. This it's why Manga is retarded for Street tier.

I agree. I won't even read/watch any manga/anime that has a video game system (levelling up as it were), they really irritate me. I think Tenchi Muyo is the worst offender I've seen.

@pr0tocol:

Actually.. I might use Kuzuki or Emiya for an all masters team, but I already typed up this post so I'm not going to be a b*tch and delete it.

That could work......

Nothing Archer has done outside of a calc or a letter on a stat board has made him hypersonic. I've already switched him out as well..

Calculations are really one of the only ways to work out how fast a character really is. I mean, if we only go by what authors say, then Luthor Strode is only 60 MPH (or whatever the author said). I realise you did change, but I just thought I'd point it out.

Saber struggled with Lancelot's bullets, and yes, they were amped due to his NP, but can you honestly tell me they were lightspeed?

I wouldn't say they were, but there's a big difference between just hypersonic and lightspeed. IIRC hypersonic speeds start at mach 5, whereas lightspeed is in excess of mach 800,000 (or something along those lines, but you can clearly see there's quite a lot of wriggle room).

Travel speed, which Saber has only been compared to a Fighter Jet in.

Compared, sure, but she has feats in the hypersonic range easy. She moves 4KM in under a second here which would put her at mach 10+. Admittedly, I still struggle with the ins and outs of command spells (I'm not a massive fan of the series).

Saber was weaker because Shirou wasn't a mage and had barely any mana to sustain her.

Eh, it's a fair point, but nothing states how much weaker she was, or if her speed was affected much (of at all).

Saber was injured at the time when Caster outraced her.

If she weren't a Servant, this argument may have worked better. I mean, Archer lost both his cores and was still moving around (for days IIRC), I don't see why Saber would lose speed after a pretty minor injury (at least by her standards).

In a similar instance where Caster tagged Saber mid-blitz to Kuzuki, even Rin and Shirou could see her blitz. They were pretty obviously not hypersonic.

Emiya could see the mach 10+ arrow in the link I posted. There's a difference between being able to see something and being able to do anything about it.

Kuzuki was capable of beating Saber while having 10x his stats. Other factors were involved, but still.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I posted....

Admittedly, I don't remember every instance they fought but during the Kuzuki scene referenced, Caster's spell bounces off (A weakened) Saber and couldn't stop her blitz.

I beleive she does it during the bridge battle, but I may he remembering it wrong.

Besides, say they did, why is Caster affecting Saber any different than Wolverine cutting Thor or Thanos?

It may sound unfair, but I imagine it's the sheer number of feats that contradict Wolverine's feat.

I don't really think we should disallow a character that has fought people outside of the limits, else people like Batman, Deathstroke, Wolverine, etc are all above it as well.'

I think if they're consistently shown at a much lower level, then the PIS card can be dropped. However, if they don't have enough contradicting these showings, I'd pit them at that level.

@pr0tocol:

However, Archer isn't hypersonic.. He couldn't even perceive Lancer at one point IIRC.

That doesn't necessarily mean he isn't hypersonic. Someone mach 1 may not be able to perceive someone mach 2 (actually, someone mach 1 may not be able to perceive someone mach 1 either).

Caster was overwhelmed by a human in H2H (Rin). Admittedly she was caught off guard as she wasn't expecting Rin to do that.. but that is more then enough to show shes below the limit.

Using your logic Flash is allowable because he was tagged by Deathstroke. Didn't Caster outpace Saber once to save Kuzuki? Regardless, her magic would be above the limits since it can affect Saber directly.

TBH, I don't think any of the Servants should really be allowed here. Even Kotomine is pushing it.

@sirfizzwhizz:

Caster, lancer, Rider, Assassin and Archer shouldn't be allowed here. All these characters fight Saber who is easily hypersonic in the anime, and she's "arguably" light speed in the novel. Also, they can only be harmed by magic IIRC, which alone would screw the TRNY up.

I'd also be wary of Scorpion/Subzero, but atleast some versions don't break the rules.

@sirfizzwhizz:

Sorry about that.

Eh, there aren't really any characters left I feel confident repping (atleast not without essentially copying someone else's work), I'll probably have to drop from this.