Scotchbear

@aqua1: I'll be that guy. Jiren still wins.

The super hero movie which happens 2 years after the Gas fight and Black Frieza showing himself has Goku and Vegeta state straight up that Jiren is still the goal of power. In the Manga MUI Goku got some hits in on Jiren but ended up getting KOd by Jiren because he was burning through so much power just dodging Jiren. Just DODGING JIREN takes massive amounts of power even in MUI.

Jiren also didn't get KOd, or killed, he just got pushed out of bounds that's it. By several SSB+ tier characters after going a hard round against MUI Goku. Remove that killing rule and you see a very different result.

Hell Goku and Vegeta have Broly there and they dont use him as a goalposts, which also suggest Jiren>Broly too.

Jiren probably beats Frieza the same way he beat MUI Goku, takes a couple but makes Frieza use power because no one wants Jirens hands. Plus Frieza only using his new form in short bursts really implies he can't use it for long, so if he (like MUI Goku) can't finish the job in seconds, he's a goner.

@pandaemperoriv: whis made it clear Goku hadn't fully mastered UI

MUI Goku is only good for like 15 seconds. As stated his accuracy and reactions drop rapidly the longer he is in the form.

But for those 15 seconds he's a beast. And could probably swerve Beerus hard until he starts losing power.

Lol so funny rereading these old threads and see the lowballers of DB get absolutely destroyed and leave the site

TDP and all the old DB haters sure got quiet after all that denial on the first page when I tried to enlighten them to da way.

It's essentially a slightly stronger SSB Goku from the Moro arc with UI Omen as a passive boost on top of it

UI Omen alone roflstomps Kefla. He probably stops at Moro.

The power creep has been real. Vegeta is confident he can hang with Goku now, who still has MUI. So it's probably increases in power of 5x if not more since the ToP arc. With them probably each growing 25-33% stronger since the Moro arc as it's stated to have been some time since the wish was made.

@thegod2: toribot also has scans of him creating the Dr slum verse while he drank coffee.

And another where he tells Vegeta he changed the plot to make him survive.

He drew the picture of him x'd out. He's the author. He's omnipotent.

He also has a scan in the Manga where Krillin mentions reused panels and toribot admits he did it and they don't have to pay him for it

@thegod2: impossible. Toribot is toriyama himself. So he's omnipotent and blinks battler and his verse

There is a reason Beerus doesn't try to big boy Goku anymore, but is perfectly fine with bullying Vegeta.

He can't bully Goku anymore. He stomped SBBE Vegeta but so could Goku at this point.

Toyo is trying to think of a way to compare Goku and Beerus without actually having them fight because it's going to happen in the story eventually anyway, so he's saving it

Grand priest literally erased an angel from outside the multiverse

Angels are high sky father's.

He solos