SainguineXshadow

@sirfizzwhizz:

Raiden not only outpaces Explosions, he can outpace the raindrops in Monsoons fight and can swing Excel's massive ass blade so fast despite its size, each time it's cut pieces of it fall off slowly. That's hilariously beyond Mach 4 or Mach 5 disgustingly so

Raiden's blade mode is Raiden innate reflexes going into hyperdrive, he has Blade mode in the Prologue he doesn't need fuel cells to use it, he can literally trigger it with a perfect parry in his inferior body.

Raiden quite literally dices through Alucard's souls in record pace.

Raiden fodderizes, superior speed and stats.

He can practically Statue Alucard.

Solidus freaking destroys him. Man's introduction is bitch slapping bullets out of the air casually with his arm and outracing an explosive from Snake trying to hit him with a grenade launcher, he's the perfect clone of Big boss given a suit that amps his stats to such a degree, he can swat bullets out of the air with his arm, later on he's shown to fully be capable of deflecting a barrage of fire from the actual ray with his two swords.

Kotomine isn't a bullet timer, he does what Vamp does reading the muscles of someone and moving accordingly to shield himself with his kevlar and blessed clothes.

Solidus is faster, black keys would be sliced to pieces by Solidus's HF blades.

Vamp can basically replicate everything Kotomine can do to better degree, including swimming in water with such high buoyancy if you fell in, you wouldn't be coming back up.

Vamp not only swims in the crap; he's able to literally jump out of it.

In terms of combat he's below Solidus, Baji Quan against a guy that has HF blades and a suit that lets him outrace explosions is a very bad idea.

The second Kotomine gets in range of Solidus he's promptly cut into confetti.

The Colonel explains if you choose to contact him in codecs during the fight, that Raiden's skull suit is made out of material that will prevent him from dying from being sliced by the swords in one stroke, so at the very least he wouldn't die from being hit.

Without his suit, he'd be cut into confetti.

Kotomine's suit ain't made out of that material, he's dying.

They get curbstomped by Dormammu at his best he beat Eternity down and started shaping the multiverse in his image.

He's hilariously above them.

@crimsonslayer85:

Nah, hold the hell up chief. You just made a bunch of incorrect ass claims and put words in my mouth I'm not letting that fly.

> "Jesus Christ. 100% Arcueid is Red Arcueid, aka the Arcueid not restricting her bloodlust anymore and thus using all of her power. Archetype Earth is something else entirely. Of course she would blink Nrvnqsr."

No she isn't, 100% Arcueid is Arcueid BEFORE Roa did what he did; she's also called True Ancestor princess Arcueid and has her long hair. We infact see this in Kagetsu Tohya in a flashback from Roa's perspective.

> "Yes, but both Ryougi and AE still acted as if MEODP could work on her, with AE herself stating that Ryougi came to bestow death on what cannot die. Implying her eyes evolved to the point she can instill the concept of death into someone."

I am pretty damn clear you're talking out your ass on this as AE is heavily implied to be about to ABSOLUTELY curbstomp the shit out of Ryougi and Ryougi basically accepts her death but is going to go out swinging, her words are recognition to the end.

She knows she can't win but is choosing to fight.

> "Wallachia's Tataris are explicitly stated to have abilities no lacking from the originals. White Len's Tataris instead are weaker than the originals. But they do not lack abilites unless specified. It would be incredibly hard to not include Nrvnqsr's continental durability if you are going to replicate him though, because that's a fundamental part of how his very body and Chaos works in the first place."

We're explicitly told Tatari Nero Chaos isn't a 1 for 1 copy because he couldn't be perfectly copied also what in the hell are you trying to say???

You literally admit they are weaker than their actual selves in this same comment, seriously what the hell?

> " Him having MEODP does not magically allow him to dominate Nrvnqsr. He still needs the speed and skill to deal with him. Have you even read Tsukihime?

Here is Nanaya slaughtering Nrvnqsr's stronger beasts:"

BUT ACTUALLY; WHAT YOU'RE NEGLECTING TO MENTION IS THE FACT HE'S EXPLICITLY TARGETING THE LINES OF THE SHIT SENT HIS WAY AND CUTTING THEM DOWN.

He, himself stated this in the same passage Nanaya mode Tohno uses his MeoDP in tandem with his speed to cut them down.

Nero was jobbing against Shiki and never used a Phantasmal beast but random ass fodder.

It's a situation where they both can kill each other; Nanaya just did it first.

> Nrvnqsr himself stated that he was forced to attack Nanaya with his full power:

And yet he never brings out Phantasmal Beasts that would rip Shiki to pieces with minimal effort.

No; instead what he does is have a panic moment and thinks Shiki will kill anything he sends out at him so he chooses to do his final trump card in which case; MeoDP perfectly counters it because it's an equalizer that lets Shiki KILL Nero.

>" LOL. "Dragons can destroy countries" does not equate to "Dragons can country bust". Destroying a country's forces and then burning down the settlements is the same as destroying the country. And even if we are charitable and accept that interpretation, so how exactly is a Country busting dragon going to injure someone that can tank attacks that have damaged beings who have virtually shrugged off the Moon being slammed on them?"

Where the hell did I say Dragons can bust a country stop putting words in my mouth; I said DRAGONS CAN WIPE OUT A COUNTRY.

Also Gee, I don't know burn him? He sure as hell isn't immune to fire or half the shit most dragons breathe out.

Physical durability ain't going to save him when he's blasted, afterall unlike Tohno he lacks MeoDP and can't kill the concept of shit.

> "But I guess Dante's guns from DMC are IRL level then. Lol. Besides, we don't even know if Enhance would scale to the lightning speed characters, as the DAAs we saw so far in Tsukihime and MB were the best among the best and far above the others."

I don't know why you brought up Dante but Dante infuses his bullets with his demonic power and they can oneshot demons and that's a whole other can of worms, Dante would beat the bricks off Nanaya with the scaling that Pinnacle of Combat, DMC2, DMC5 and official guide to DMC says about him.

I have no idea why you brought that up since Ebony and Ivory aren't comparable to any real life guns.

> "I don't care about your outrageous, baseless and completely irrelevant examples. Roa's Lightning Magecraft is as fast as real lightning because it IS natural lightning, but merely produced through magical means rather than scientific or natural means."

Yes but actually no isn't an argument or a citation; so concession accepted it's not as fast as real lightning because it A. Lacks an After stroke and doesn't behave like lightning rather behaves just like electricity.

B. It's never stated to travel at the speed of Lightning.

> "LMAO. Not another casual that seriously believes into the "Void fought Araya" myth in 2023. Let's see what the actual novel has to say on the topic:"

Damn. That's crazy, that's really crazy because you see I never stated Ryougi became "Void" I said Ryougi switched personalities.

And what do you know?!

You literally cited exactly that proving me correct.

> The reason Shiki became like a different person was none other than from a method of controlling battle will, trained to the extreme.

A long, long, time ago. Samurai had been said to accept killing and be killed naturally the moment their swords were drawn. This wasn't because of an emotional state as a warrior. The instant they gripped the handle, they would awaken.

Their bodies transform into ones existing only for killing, their brains turn into ones moving only for survival.

This wasn't beyond the level of bracing oneself before a match. By drawing their katana, the functions of their brain switched. They were not switching their body to one suited for battle. Their brain was remaking their bodies into one fit for combat.

By doing so, the muscles work in a way that should not be used by living beings, and the veins change the circulation route of the blood, prevent them from even breathing. ... Yes, human functions useless in battle are completely ejected as they are transformed into a part meant for war.

"That stance. So you transformed yourself by autosuggestion. I'm surprised." The woman in the kimono answered, yes, to the muttering of the pained magus.

^ Literally acknowledges that she did infact change personalities, I never once claimed she became Void. You just assumed I did.

> "Considering that Nrvnqsr has 666 lives in total, and that he can further condense all of them in the 999th Beast, yes, Nrvnqsr doesn't have continental durability. His durability is higher than continental, because that's only the power required to destroy 500 out of 666 lives."

That's crazy, BUT ACTUALLY: Soil of Genesis (Sōsei no Tsuchi?) is a "cage" formed through an ancient technique from the Age of Gods recovered by Roa and taught to Nrvnqsr during Roa's attempts to help him fully control the chaos. He believes not even Arcueid could hope to destroy it at full strength because destroying the five hundred lives of chaotic matter would be the equivalent to obliterating an entire continent.

No mention of Continent+ tone down your wank.

> "Overall? No, as Types should have incredible reality warping capabilities and hax. In terms of pure physicals stats? No, he isn't on their level. He is above it. Again, he dominated characters comparable to 100% Arcueid, who is stated more than once to rival Type Moon physically:"

HAH! HAHAHAHAHA!! HOLY SHIT, WHAT IS THIS WANK.

HOLD ON; YOU JUST EARNED THIS DEADASS.

He's above them?

ORT doesn't even notice either Shiki attacking or trying to harm it.

Wanna know why buddy boy?

BECAUSE ORT IS FRIGGIN STELLAR CLASS.

Someone hasn't read or watch the south America Lostbelt I see.

Don't worry I gotchu.

Goredolf: He's a monster who had a stellar spirit in the last battle!

Goldolf, do you know how much energy the sun produces in a second?

It seems to use more energy than we humans have ever used in total!

The spider body of ORT isn't even actually it's real body; the UFO is and it puts out Solar Radiation and cosmic rays that will kill any human that comes near it; UFO ORT puts out a solar storm that incinerates Shiki the second he draws near it, but in actuality he'll die by getting stepped on by it like it kills Deino Arc not even paying an Archetype Earth any attention and effortlessly killing one lmao.

You say he's physically stronger than Any type?

Hoh boy, buddy hoh pal! So you're not aware of ORT awakening and we see what happens when it awakens huh?

Spoiler: Full power ORT awakening shatters the surface of the planet to such a degree it looks like part of the planet is missing.

You still want to try for Shiki being physically superior to the Types?

Cause I got more; ORT has Anti-Matter it uses, ORT performs Nuclear Fusion and it's core is a small sun, while not comparable to a legit ass star in space it's enough to make the damn thing Star level in its Saint Graph.

So yeah, Shiki is physically stronger than Types again?

Would you like to try again because you sure goofed the hell out of this one.

@crimsonslayer85:

>I don't think that. I know that.

No you don't; because if you seriously think Nanaya has physical striking power of continental level you need help.

Also just FYI? Nero doesn't have Continental durability the soil of Genesis is the thing Arcueid states you'd need the power to tear apart a continent to take out.

So Nanaya can take on Nero Chaos and win huh?

So; you can explicitly tell me what infact happened in the fight against Tatari not perfectly recreated Nero Chaos then?

Tell me exactly what he did to win/ kill him yeah?

Btb you're REALLLLLLY lucky that on mobile I can't post pictures because I'd already be on your ass if I could.

>Again, this is a hyperbolic statement. It's like me saying my grandmother is throwing her frisbee "like a bullet". It's such a common type of hyperbole in literature, yet here we are acting as if it's indicative of anything. I guess Ryougi Shiki is SOL then, since she swinged her knife "like a flash of light". You'd love the asinine comparisons I can make with this terrible logic. It's a game we can both play.

Sure I'll tear your lightning speed ladder scaling apart now.

You say Tohno is not comparable to Nanaya?

He fights Nanaya to a stand still in Kagetsu Tohya at a point, before Kouma zips in and tears Nanaya's head off his shoulders.

You following?

Ryougi Shiki KILLS Shiki in her arcade route; Ryougi who has movies to go by and plenty of shit we can infact point out.

> Ryougi and Araya do not move at Lightning speeds or have Continental durability; the fact Ryougi can kill Shiki speaks volumes since

A. It was basic bitch form Ryougi who didn't have her katana

B. Ryougi needed to tap into her other personality to kill Araya.

And I can promise you Ryougi doesn't have lightning speed or continental durability and she is stated to be on Nanaya's level.

>"Headcanon? Read the statements I sent. It states in no uncertain terms that the result is the same, and the only difference is the method. Magecraft is literally described as being the replication of what is possible under otherwise scientific or natural means, differing from True Magic, which allows for things impossible for humans normally, such as resurrection of the deads or time travel. Lightning Magecraft is the same as real Lightning, period."

Cool so if I use magecraft to create a Pseudo blackhole and it doesn't suck in the earth or has a gravity pull lesser than an actual blackhole it's suddenly comparable to an actual Blackhole amirite?

How about you cite where Roa's magecraft lightning moves as fast as actual lightning.

Rather assuming it does.

>" I also find it particularly humorous that you accuse me of headcanon and cherrypicking, when you are the one denying feats from canon works and instead employing information from a dream world that is not applicable to reality, or from the remake canon with contradicting lore."

Kagetsu Tohya lines up with what we see and are shown in Tsukihime and told about Kiri Nanaya vs Kouma.

This is the most grounded and logical swing of events opposed to the weird ass shit you're trying to pull out your ass with the manga or Melty blood.

Melty blood is Canon?

No; you see Melty blood is an off shoot franchise just like Carnival phantasm. For that same reason we don't treat it as canon, explicitly so when Nasu portraits Shiki at consistent levels of showings in both Tsukihime VN and Kagetsu Tohya.

Opposed to whatever the shit you're trying to claim he's capable of.

>" A Holy Scripture Class of Shotgun that fires magical, supernatural bullets. Far different from the real life models of guns explicitly stated to fire at the speed of sound that the likes of Kirei struggles with."

You pointed this out...why?

Because the speed of those bullets are not stated to be greater than actual bullets only that they're effective against DA's and DAA's.

For that same reason when Lancelot gets his hands on modern weapons and uses KoH to empower the sheer power of them but says nothing about their speed.

"LOL. Kudos for the subtlety, but do you really think that I wouldn't have noticed that? You cannot mix and match the Remake's Canon with the Original's. There is a reason they were split, after all. And no, Shiki does not die to much less in Tsukihime, unless you take out of context scenes where he isn't in a proper mental state or has yet to get strong. With that being said, I already addressed the "cherrypicking high showings" and the "Kiri scales to Shiki" nonsense. moving on."

I'm not the one that was using a composite showing of a character lmao. You are, by trying to ignore the source material in favor of exaggerated feats that can't be taken seriously by any measure in setting.

> "Funnily enough, a weakened Nanaya that lacked MEODP matching Kishima is indeed perfectly consistent with a weakened Nanaya stomping Nrvnqsr and FP Akiha in Tsukihime, who are both around Kishima's level. So much for MB being "exaggerated" or "contradicting"."

No it's not; because we only know how Kouma was against Kiri not current Kouma post Kiri fight; and that's the one Nasu says can physically throw down with servants.

> "That Nanaya cannot kill Phantasmal Beasts without MEODP is purely an appeal to incredulity on your part. It's void in the face of the source material showing Nanaya killing Nrvnqsr with his physical strikes."

Homie you clearly do not understand the cosmology of the setting you're arguing.

Phantasmal Beasts are creatures from the AoGs if you seriously think Nanaya can kill a Dragon that can wipe a country out with it's breath by distributing the crap across it, you need help.

>" Neither is Nanaya. They are both Tataris summoned by White Len. This means that the outcome of their fights can be translated to their real selves. And Nanaya being capable of physically obliterating Nrvnqsr isn't all too surprising, seeing how he completely dominated him while being massively wounded in Tsukihime already."

He dominated him because he had MeoDP man literally said he's killing the "World" of Fabro himself his very existence by stabbing that point.

Nanaya can't kill a reality marble unless you can cite this; using he beat Tatari incomplete Nero doesn't stick because he's explicitly not the real Nero.

Crossing Nanaya's feats in Kagetsu Tohya vs actual Nero Chaos he dies.

>Lin? You mean Len? That's a feat for Len. Nothing more, nothing less. She also defeated Nrvnqsr Chaos, which indicates she is a top tier.

Len gets her ass beat by Arcueid; Nero Chaos can literally trap Arcueid and devour her.

You see why your scaling doesn't add up yet?

"How is he simultaneously no match for Servants but above 100% Arcuied tier characters while hindered?"

100% Arcueid was never shown in OG Tsukihime; Archetype Earth dogs his ass if they fought.

Ryougi flatout said Archetype Earth didn't have a death.

So he's above 100% Arcueid how again? Enlightenment me.

>" Angel Notes already had continental feats, the VN already had Nrvnqsr's continental durability and Roa is canonically known to have lightning magecraft in general. It was only a matter of time before the scaling would have been made more explicit."

You brought up Angel Notes why exactly???

Shiki isn't on the level of the types if that's what you're trying to imply, the only continent level feat in Angel notes is Slash emperor causing a Type's core to detonate after slashing it in half which then burned down a continent.

> "No one is using non-canon feats. So I have no idea what you are talking about. I know you desperately want Melty Blood to not be canon, but it is unfortunately. You can be as opposed to the facts as much as you'd like, it isn't going to change them. I don't care about actually non-canon crossover games."

And yet you're citing Melty blood which has friggin Ryougi Shiki in it holy shit.

> "Did he move that fast through his natural speed, or through sheer skill? Because I don't think you are even understanding the point. I'm mentioning that Nanaya with his techniques can move invisibly fast compared to characters that are fast as him, and sometimes bypassing physics (Nanaya appearing in different places at the same time, Ryougi making an incredibly wonky knife throw). His Martial Arts are also stated to strain the body to the absolute limit, which suggest that they aren't easy to learn on top of that."

Krauser moves fast with both speed and skill; his regular running speed isn't particularly fast but in short bursts of speed through skill/ Technique he becomes a blur and mimics after image teleporting.

Verdugo can consistently hound Leon attacking him from all sorts of angles.

Namely; literally in the ground his tail will lash out and threaten to cleave Leon, Leon will dodge this.

The ceiling; usually ahead of Leon by several meters with no real indication he's about to attack yet Leon can dodge this just fine.

Leon can react to a room of lasers coming at him and perfectly contort his body with perfect timing and precision that he doesn't get cut in half; not long after he runs up a wall and flips off it to avoid an impossible to dodge wave of lasers coming at him.

> "However, their actual Martial Arts are based upon Flashing Dash and Flashing Scabbard, which are the ability to move and attack at extremely fast speeds. "

Yes you're talking about Nanaya's short bursts of speeds which often end with him sliding down the side of a wall in Melty blood, I know what you're talking about I've played the game.

Source material has Leon tanking blows that would kill regular humans outright and casually getting up from them like he's not hurt.

Likewise source material has Leon pummeling the shit out of a guy physically who can smack a train off it's tracks in RE6.

> "So he is about as fast as an average Dead Apostle? Considering that Nanaya stomped one of the strongest Ancestors in history while being on the verge of dying, I'd say he isn't lasting longer than a second."

Considering the average Dead apostle isn't working with an evil super genius master mind IQ level?

No.

Heisenberg also kills Nanaya with hilarious ease; he has the ability to magnetize any iron and steel around him and control it.

So Heisenberg yoinks Nanaya's knife out his hand with his powers and then sends countless metals his way at absurd speeds and kills him.

Nanaya sure as hell ain't hitting Him anytime soon so, so much for soloing RE.

>" I'm aware that comparing skill levels in fiction is a complicated matter, but I would like to see showings for Leon being able to take out physically far superior beings and going past the laws of physics through sheer skill. If you can show them, then I'll be satisfied."

Leon takes a hit that would kill a regular human outright, instantly and Proceedes to get up and parkour like a maniac like it didn't even bother him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cjc9QIXGftI&pp=ygUSTGVvbiBraWxscyBDdXJ0aXMg

Leon supports the weight of himself, Angela and G-Curtis all with his lower body doing most of the work so he can shoot Curtis in the head with one hand and instantly kill him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_CMMEmTbeqw&t=18s&pp=ygUfTGVvbiBraWxscyBDdXJ0aXMgZGVnZW5lcmF0aW9uIA%3D%3D

Leon gets bounced off the side of building by being thrown at it hard enough, proceeds to get up like it's nothing and keeps fighting before promptly delivering a kick to the B.O.W and stagger it and survive the kick done to him afterwards.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J8hD8AZG5e4&pp=ygUaQXJpZXMgdnMgTGVvbiBSZSB2ZW5kZXR0YSA%3D

Super Tyrant casually oneshots lickers which can take several bullets just to drop, very casually hits Leon but Leon takes the blow like a champ.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=egB0yiLhP2U&pp=ygUUbGVvbiB2cyBzdXBlciB0eXJhbnQ%3D

Krauser who was a Navy seals who went onto become the best mercenary money can buy tries to get the drop on Leon but fails.

While he overpowers Leon here and Ada Saves Leon, Leon later takes out Krauser himself with no help.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_nYSAdI4ABk&pp=ygUUbGVvbiB2cyBqYWNrIGtyYXVzZXI%3D

@crimsonslayer85:

> Proceeds to cite the Manga which was based off Tsukihime but actually heavily contradicts everything that happens in it.

> Cites the Roa manga fight explicitly; the very fight that's HILARIOUSLY exaggerated OPPOSED to what REALLY happens.

Which is

> Shiki watches Arcueid die, gives some speech about death and then kills the hallway and stabs Roa while falling.

> Cites Melty blood which isn't canon.

Cool; we can both play this game bud.

Fate/complete material II: Character Material - Characters: Kirei Kotomine, p.066-069

Takeuchi: Speaking of strength, who is stronger, Ciel or Kotomine?

Nasu: Ciel is overwhelmingly strong, due to her circuits, constitution and immortality. The strength of Kotomine at the time of Zero was due to his abnormally large number of Command Spells and his tenacity towards Kiritsugu. It was truly the brightest moment of his life. The Kotomine at that time could even win against Ciel.

^ WoG says Kotomine whose explicitly not on continental level striking or lightning speed can win against Ciel

WoG>>>> Your weird arbitrary headcanon

> Shiki's "Skill" with a knife that you like to throw out is explicitly against people who don't use knives and don't know how to counter him, his only brief stint of knife skill is against SHIKI when he attacks him, which isn't really impressive by Leon's standards, Krauser is blatantly superhuman and doesn't need to rely on some faulty ass scaling to achieve levels of speed he's shown to operate at along with strength.

Leon can hold his own against Krauser in a knife fight.

> Nanaya solos all RE with a flick of his wrist?

Wesker dances around him and proceeds to punch a hole through his body but nice bait.

Wesker casually reacts to gunfire and dodges the shit with hilarious ease even at point blank range.

Kiri Nanaya flatout says Nanaya's can't dodge bullets, gonna take the guy who knows his own clan over some random ass try hard debater who needs to use really exaggerated and incorrect high ends lmao.

> Clear Eyes and Pure eyes are the same thing they're just different names they go by.

> Nanaya's Techniques require Nanaya to have

A. A wall and or ceiling

B. A relatively inclosed space to maneuver around in and then he "Mimics" teleportation

This isn't anything special; Verdugo and Krauser can both replicate Nanaya's techniques just with their sheer speed alone.

Verdugo explicitly required to be frozen to slow down and be tagged; Leon still killed it.

So hey, since you want to use non-canon feats that ignore source material I can use Teppen feats that propel Leon to Devil May Cry tier right?

Or hell, Marvel vs Capcom feats since Leon is = to Chris and Chris and Wesker have zero issue throwing down with the likes of Doctor Doom or Galactus.

You really want to go that route?

Because we totally can. Unless you'd like to ACTUALLY use the source material that DOESN'T have Shiki as some lightning speed moving character like you're trying to claim.

Which in setting doesn't add up and doesn't even add up in context; since Nasu is quite clear that Shiki can't fight servants and said servants operate at the speed of sound or just slightly above it CONSISTENTLY.

Pure Eyes/ Clear eyes

Allow for Nanaya to see the Supernatural and tell when something isn't human.

They're eyes of clarity

MeoDP let Shiki (Not) Tohno to see the death of something that has the concept of earth bound death; that which's Origin lies in the Root.

The only thing the two have in common is that they both allow for someone to see the Supernatural and tell they are infact supernatural.

>The Tatari of Nanaya summoned by White Len lacks MEODP, meaning he could have only killed Nrvnqsr physically:

1. The Nero in Melty blood isn't actually Nero

2. Citing him having quotes against him means nothing as he never canonly fought the dude.

3. Nanaya literally only has a shitty knife, no means to indefinitely kill Nero's beasts or Fabro Rowan himself; say sike right now you actually think Nanaya can kill Nero Chaos

Because Nero Chaos has Phantasmal Beasts in him and can just overwhelm Nanaya with sheer numbers and stats and since Nanaya doesn't have MeoDP he AIN'T oneshotting and killing them on a rampage like (Not) Tohno did.

Ladder scaling in a fighting game isn't and shouldn't be taken seriously for DAMN good reason.

> Nanaya loses to Lin TWICE

> Tatari Kouma kills Nanaya

Kouma warned Shiki that the ACTUAL him would kill him if he sought him out and basically told him, if you fight the legit ass me you're going to die.

>And no, there is no contradiction. On the contrary, it's consistent with Nrvnqsr continent+ durability and 100% Arcueid having scaling from characters that can split apart super continents with a death cry or scorch a continent as a side effect of dying.

No there's PLENTY of contradiction when Shiki dies to much less in Tsukihime in NUMEROUS bad ends; you're just using non-canon high ends for no reason, rather sticking to source material and the shit is actually laughable when you look at the context and just how different and exaggerated Shiki is in Melty Blood and the manga that's based on Tsukihime but contradicts several things that actually happen in it.

So if you want to use Non-canon shit I get to use Teppen and MvC3 scaling from Chris to make Leon stronger right?

Since that's clearly what you're doing mister cherry picking high ends that aren't in the source material.

> Kiri 100% scales to his son; He's literally of the same bloodline and their clan has lighter bones that let them move faster than the average human, we have zero reason to believe Kiri wouldn't explicitly when we have Kouma absolutely killing Shiki anytime he gets his hands on him in Kagetsu Tohya.

Which lines up more with how Kouma vs Kiri went down.

Shiki himself admits during it Kouma would deadass kill them if they fought, he only triumphs against him in the dream after basically having do over after do over where he eventually learns his pattern and Kouma weakens due to the dream.

Shiki flatout says he wouldn't have that luxury in actuality and if he fought Kouma for real he's most assuredly dying against him.

Considering Kouma tore Nanaya's head off his shoulders with utmost ease I have no reason to doubt his words.

> Enhance literally uses a shotgun to hunt DAA's if you honest to God think People in Tsukihime are lightning speed you better be ready to pull something out your ass in the face of that then.

>"So yes, it should be natural lightning, especially considering that Roa uses it to amp his own speed that is already massively above random Dead Apostles that can casually bullet time (Which you neglected to address):"

No, no it shouldn't. Because Nasu consistently talks about the difference between Natural phenomenon and shit that can be recreated as clear as day.

Your headcanon doesn't change this.

If a knife is being thrown at you and it's being described as "Like an arrow" that knife didn't break the sound barrier my dude

And Shiki dies by that no problem; so that really HURTS the idea of Lightning speed Shiki.

Just like Kouma most certainly ain't fighting at lightning speed and has zero issue tagging either Nanaya or Shiki.

@crimsonslayer85: I don't feel like debunking all the shit you said.

Shiki never killed lightning nor moves as fast as it. Magecraft lightning=/= real lightning.

Melty blood feats are not canon and stated by Nasu himself are gross exaggerations of what Shiki can actually do.

Shiki gets killed by Arrow speed knife throw from Nanaya, Nanaya got his head ripped off his shoulders by Kouma.

Shiki's Daddy says the Nanaya's can't dodge bullets from the source material of Kagetsu Tohya.

I'm ignoring the Moon drop shit you said because Shiki dies from MUCH less in Tsukihime and Kagetsu Tohya which is in complete contradiction to any Melty blood crap you tried to pull out your ass.

Also Nanaya didn't kill Nero Chaos, they canonly never meet or fight. (Unless you're talking Shiki (Not) Tohno tapping into his Nanaya instinct and then using his MeoDp to kill Fabro Rowan himself) Which isn't a striking feat.

Nanaya doesn't have MeoDP he has clear eyes.

I know damn well what Nanaya and Shiki are both capable of, Leon has faster consistent reflexes and is physically stronger than Nanaya and better with a knife.

Goku's origin doesn't lie with the root; not to mention Goku is an Alien so he literally doesn't have lines of death or a dot of death to stab.

So Shiki tries to stab Goku and his knife breaks.

Shiki can't reach Gojo, he's not going to be able to figure out limitless, he'll try to stab Gojo and can't reach the dude.

Gojo then hits him with something or fs him up in CQC (I'm being nice by even suggesting Gojo has Lines of Death or a dot of death since again, he doesn't come from the Root and thus his Origin lies elsewhere.)

Don't know anything about Toriko.

Juudara has Izanagi, he gets stabbed (Provided he even has a death since the moon clan come from the moon and might aswell have the same shenanigans of Types behind them and since Madara is a suitable host for Kaguya he's more or less a Pseudo them) And Proceedes to overwrite his death before killing Shiki outright.

Kaguya comes from the moon and thus is alien no concept of Death, she gets stabbed by a random knife or cut then swiftly obliterates Shiki.

Buuhan is an Alien yet again no concept of earth death, Shiki goes to stab him and probably just gets absorbed instead.

Or he stabs him and then Buu reduces him to ash or idk hits him particularly hard and shatters all bones in his body.

Aizen literally can't die; he's as true immortal as one can get, he's also a God of Death.

Aizen literally doesn't need to move a finger Shiki comes near him and swiftly ceases to exist by his Reiatsu just like the random fodder soul reaper that was around him when he was becoming unsealed, it's actually worse for Shiki because man really doesn't have the feats to resist that.

So Nanaya rushes Aizen down and swiftly disintegrates.

Don't know who Julius is, but if he's weird in nature or alien then Shiki probably can't kill him.