roller4312

@chair-sama:"OP specifically states the version of madara is when madara and Hashirama were BOTH alive."
"Both" refers to the alive part, not to the simultaneousity of it. Example: "Charles Dickens and J.K Rowling are BOTH great writers" Alive Madara at the prime of his abilities and lifegoals is a Madara with Rinnegan, TenTails, and Hashirama's abilities including the summon and regeneration.

"WHAT?"
It this that much of a revelation that Naruto is supposed to die to Sasuke? The great toad sage prophesied it. Naruto accepted his fate. Canon that and canon this, but the only reason Naruto is alive is so Boruto and the movies could happen and sell. In real life. Same reason there is so much filler in anime too.

"minato wont support his son?"
Support means "skills that work and benefit each other" Team Uchiha has complete battle field coverage with Sharingan by definition and they can, to a certain degree, always fight a 5vs1 battle, and, say, just ignore Sarutobi and there is nothing he can do about it.

".literally the EXACT same reason was be cause he was the reincarnation of indra. what is your point?"
My point is if duplication is kept to a sane level then Naruto is not amped, nor does he have the Ninetails, neither is Sasuke admittedly, but he has ton of other tools to use. Not that i'm against either, but it should be clarified.

edit: "so again, you didnt even give a reason on why itahci wins. you said itahci will not even participate but then give him the win?"
I don't have to. Itachi in particular, and team Uchiha in general, will fight as a team, not as individuals, and have the tools to fight as a team, this simply won't be a 5x 1on1. But rather resemble a battle with Pain. team Naruto will be overwhelmed. Not only because most of them are weaker but also because of hotheads on their team. Naruto will charge and die and that's it for example.

@darthsenju: I'm actually more amazed all the hints indicating the level of math these 12yo academy students are supposed to know. A bit of genjutsu is childsplay there. I hope we won't start to discuss how Saruka is Einstein now because she is good at academy math. (math lessons not shown either)

indeed it's all wrong, Naruto's strength is his determination, and this causes external power sources to be drawn to him like a magnet. If Sasuke is given the Ninetails, he will escape back to Naruto. Sasuke instead developed his own skills. So it's time invested vs time invested still. Ultimately the sharingan allows control of the tailed beasts so Sasuke is on the winning track here. As he should be because he represents individual skill. It would be strange if Naruto could beat him 1on1 and it never happened, short of some plot enforced stalemates.

@darthsenju: we don't necessarily have to experience all of the exciting adventures of academy life. (thank god) They show for example that every graduate has to master clones. And how many times do we see shinobi doing clones later? Basically never.

@darthsenju: ah yes indeed, he put 20 villagers and some genin to sleep and it didn't affect anyone else., basically another example to show that everyone can do academy level tricks.

@kasya_carey: I don't remember Sakura, Shizune or Kabuto doing genjutsu. And neither did Kurenei or Itachi patch themselves on the field. Is there an example of a user who actually actively uses both? If not then Tsunade has nothing.

@chair-sama:

"Ashura> Indra."
No it was Ashura + Hagoromo + 100's of villagers > Indra. Barely.
Ashura alone loses.

"Hashirama > madara"
It was hashirama's chakra draining dragon > madara, which Madara will have the luxury of not fighting, being in the group now. Plus it remains a question of whether losing was not part of his plan anyway. And Madara got heavily upgraded since then.

"sarutobi vs Shusui- this one is a wild card."
there nothing wild cardish here.
Shusui wins.

"minato > obito"
Minato outsmarted Obito. And would do it again, but not this time because Team Sasuke has tacticians on the team now who would lead Obito into victory.
Obito wins.

"Nagato > itachi"
Itachi strength is tactics. He will probably not even participate much. Instead he(and Madara) will lead others to victory. Edo Nagato himself said his weakness is that he is slow. And that's a death sentence against a team with that much power like Team Sasuke.
Itachi wins.

"Naruto > sasuke."
That would be only technically correct. The question is how much of it is the result of Kishimoto wanting to continue the series and not end it. Thematically Naruto should die, as he was prophesied to do and agreed to do. It's just a plot win. In a plotshackles free enviroment
Sasuke wins.

And as a team all of Team Sasuke will support each other. Team Naruto's only team skill is Minato's teleport.

//

"his connection yes, but other then that, the actual chakra he received was not asura's it was hagomoro's himself"
The reason Hagoromo made contact with Naruto to give him power is Ashura's spirit or charka. It would be an incredible coincidence if that was just a random accident.

"minato is FAR from a generic shinobi lmao. Surpasses the second hokage AND the raikage in speed"
And neither are present, and if they would i would classify them as generic as well, because of what they facing, it's not a chunin exam after all.

Madara is not going down to Hashirama because he likely will not even fight Hashirama, not a choice in an 1on1, but now Team Sasuke will send the most suitable opponent, who would disable or take control over Hashirama's dragon from range. Likely Shuisui.

Teams Sasuke easily wins.
Also there is too much duplication.

Nagato's eyes are Madara's(present in the team)
Naruto's biju is Madara's(present in the team)
Naruto's connection to Hagoromo powerup is through dead Ashura(present in the team)
Sarutobi, Minato - smart but generic shinobi

Tbh the only one in team Natuto who should put out a fight is Hashirama everyone else will be rolfstomped instantly.

Team Sasuke is stronger by definition, because they emphasize individual skill, where Team Naturo thinks unity of people is strength, except the people are not here. Not that they were ever a factor, which i find a bit ironic.

With duplication allowed, the outcome will depend on what we consider "alive in his prime". Madara, alive, the moment he is betrayed, is a Madara with Rinnegan, Hashirama cells and TenTails.

but in any case, there is too much sharingan on team sasuke and they all have hax powers.

@kasya_carey: Well ye, but not every medical ninja is automatically a genjutsu user and not every genjutsu user is automatically a medical ninja. I don't think there is a single medical/genjutsu user in the series. This means chakra control is not part of the requirements to be a genjutsu user. And further this means Tsunade does not have to be genjutsu proficient. And her not using it is further indication for that.

Well it's your word against that of Shikamaru who specifically called it "paralysis genjutsu", in part1episode147. It's been mentioned already. Not that i particularly care, because X not using Y is not a proof that X is unable to. We can see casual genjutsu usage all over the place in konoha village actually, the guards trying to stop people at the chunin exam used genjutsu. Speaking of which, Kabuto's info cards have genjutsu skill as part of the graph. And, now prepare to be astonished, they show Rock Lee having genjutsu proficiency ok. Rock Lee can do genjutsu and you are trying to say Tsunade can't? Here are some scans.

Gai: "Lee has almost no skill for genjutsu. "=> this means even ROCK LEE CAN DO GENJUTSU.

@lemonpeace: So Flash has a technique resembling what would appear to the observer as cloning. So how many "clones" aka places he can simultaneously be and appear continuously present he can "create" Because if this number is finite someone like Naruto could technically beat him by creating this number of clones he has to fight! Or outspeed him using just the same trick.