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Revold

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@lariend said:

To summarize, there is only 1 being/character/writer in each respective universe (DC or marvel etc) that can be omnipotent. In Marvel it's TOAA (not the celestial) in DC it's debated between Monitor or The Presence. Some characters are nigh omnipotent like The Beyonder, God Doom, HOTU Thanos, Lucifer/Michael in (vetrigo versions) The Endless. Some characters are "practically omnipotent, like PR Beyonder given that he was the most powerful character ever introduced in Marvel.

After the many Comicvine threads that I've read, I use to think like this too. But then I realised the issue isn't as simple as it seems.

Though usually there is at most one "True Omnipotent" in a Verse/narrative, there is no rule that states that this must be the case, especially when Omnipotence is the subject at hand. Wouldn't the Omnipotent would simply be able to create another equally omnipotent being?

Then again such claims also bring in more difficult questions. Like what can be considered a Verse? Surely most of us would say "All of Marvel can be considered as one Verse", but we have crossovers, acquisitions and all the complicated ownership and rights. If Marvel is a Verse, what about Disney? What about the sheer potential of being able to crossover with any fictional universe ever exists and will exist?

I'm getting ahead of myself. Sure, naturally our intuition would be "if X can beat Y, then surely Y can never be all-powerful!" This is why in all the Omnipotent vs Omnipotent fights, we definitely will see "stalemate" as the final answer when the definition seems to us to be someone that cannot lose. Immediately, you can see the problem because "cannot" is the exact opposite of what Omnipotence stands for! It is not that the battle would literally be stalemate, but it's just we do not even have the mental capacity to comprehend its very existence amongst all the paradoxes, let alone a battle between two of them! Can we even call it a fight? Does logic starts to break down the moment the battle begins? Or even before it began?

That being said, it is still not impossible to rank our favourite (seemingly) Omnipotent characters. For example, the Presence seems to be Omnipotent. But if you put him against TOAA, he will lose because there simply isn't enough feats to back him up. He has been killed before, being challenged before, and small details like the angels being able to comprehend his existence, already put him one step behind TOAA. We just need to know where to look.

Of course, we still have the rest of the outright Omnipotent characters that are just defined to be absolute by the writers. Even then we still can rank them based on the amount of control it has. If the Marvel Verse is bigger than Tenchi Muyo! Verse, then sure, TOAA is more powerful than Kami Tenchi. (Which should't come as a surprise since some infinities can be bigger than others). Of course, this seems unfair and pointless since we are just comparing the size of corporations at this point, but I think this is the only way to rank this kind of characters.

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Edited By Revold
@lariend said:

@revold:

"The highest type of Omnipotence" wat? There's not different layers of Omnipotence. Like Period. Sure you can be nigh Omnipotence but that's not another "type of Omnipotence" It just means you are almost all powerful. You can't be specialized omnipotence, that just means you are nigh omnipotence.

Almightiness or "almighty" is just another word for omnipotent. You are not almighty if you are just "stronger" then everyone else, you are ALLmighty if you are omnipotent otherwise you only appear to be almighty.

"Practical Omnipotence/Specialised Omnipotence" That's not how omnipotents works.. if you are Practically or Specialized omnipotent you are just nigh omnipotent or almost all powerful.

"True Omnipotence/Absolute Omnipotence" These 2 are exactly the same thing which is just plain omnipotence.

"Godhood" Godhood in comics are just a title nothing to do with being omnipotent.

1. A fair point that I agree. Of course, there are only really 2 classification: whether you are truly omnipotent, or you are not. The other "types" of Omnipotence are really just tiers of power.

While surely in comic books specialised omnipotent may often be nigh omnipotent, it is not necessarily the case by definition. For example kid Franklin Richards can be pretty much omnipotent within his pocket dimension, but he is still far from being able to be considered "nigh omnipotent".

2. I used to also prefer to define "Almighty" literally from what it is: of all might, in which the noun "might" can also share the literal meaning from the verb to mean "possibility". But by the language convention "Almighty" just means the quality of being much more powerful than everyone else. Of course, word definitions isn't a big problem, we can always replace it with some other words like "Pre-Eminence", and have Almighty mean the sum total of Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence etc.

3. Like I said, Specialised Omnipotence may or may not be Nigh Omnipotent. As for Practical Omnipotent, you can think of it in 2 ways:

  1. It is a subset/special case of Nigh Omnipotence, reserved for the most powerful of them. You might as well rename Night Omnipotence to "Nigh practical omnipotence" since we already eliminate the "true omnipotence" in this comparison.
  2. Practical Omnipotence is the definition of Omnipotence, and the "nigh" in nigh omnipotence is relative to this ideal. This is because as we explored earlier, "True/Literal Omnipotence" that follows strictly to the literal definition simply cannot exist in a logical consistent manner. Of course, this is only a concern to philosophers, but comic book writers can do whatever they want, even if it doesn't make sense. Hence I still include them in the post, but distinguishing them properly into different "Types".

All in all, the reason why these many "Types" exist is because this post only serves to collate the different interpretation of what the concept should mean. Since I am not the authority to decide this, I thought it would be interesting to put this on the discussion.

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@mad_jim: @lariend: True Omnipotence can be the same as Absolute Omnipotence, but not always. Contrary to popular belief, "Omnipotence" by itself isn't absolute, at least not necessarily.

Going back to the definition, (True) Omnipotence literally means all power. Now "all" can mean a lot of things, which can be finite or infinite, depending on what you consider as "power" and how that particular reality is defined. As long as the subject satisfy the basic requirement of having "all power", no matter which definition was picked, it is still technically "truly omnipotent".

For example, you can consider "Hopple a Goddle" as one such "power", even though the "request" does not make any sense. But by removing the filter restriction imposed by the nature of our language, we can consider just the feats that are "real", not arbitrarily created by us. For example, "moving a rock" is a feat that exist whether we choose to define "moving" and "rock" or not. Of course, as humans we can never truly remove language from our mindset, but we can still somewhat understand how they are different.

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Edited By Revold

@cromulor: Well Vegeta can go SSG in the manga. In the anime he has never done so, though it has never been explicitly stated he couldn't do it either. Also, we don't know if the ritual is the only way to attain SSG. For someone like Whis who can revive the dead with a swing of his staff, I don't assume this is out of his reach too.

Another possibility is that Whis found a workaround for Vegeta to skip SSG straight to SSB. Instead of supplying god ki through ritual, perhaps the supply of god ki comes from Whis himself, and then immediately being absorbed by Vegeta into ordinary ki again. If that's the case, the unique aspect the ritual would be a trigger for the SSG form.

Either way, it is difficult to justify that Vegeta naturally attained this power of gods through pure training. We won't know what exactly happened until we are shown their training process before Goku joined the party.

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@illuminated: He doesn't have any direct feats but we can attribute some from other characters with uni power.

I've changed some of the order here as well, the most difficult placing for me would be War Hulk ://

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@brucerogers: Just checked apparently I remembered that wrongly. Thanks!

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@erkan12 said:

Nul Hulk wasn't half bad, he kicked Thor's ass, and continued to destroy vampires after taking Thor's full powered blast of lightning.

Kluh also can be added.

Wow thanks for your input man I didn't even know about them before xD

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@mad_jim said:

If honorable mentions be on the list , how does change list ?

Definitely behind those on the list but not sure about the exact placing unless I do more research.

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In a light Noval it was confirmed that Kage Naruto still has So6p mode.

So i'd rate him as the strongest for beating people Kaguya feared with using his strongest mode.

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Yeah Teen Naruto also had Six Paths Sage Mode but the only difference is that he is likely to be more versatile and less rusty compared to his Hokage self. Kaguya was likely in fear of her entire family rather than just 2 individuals, so that doesn't really prove that Momoshiki is stronger than her especially after absorbing the whole God Tree. If anything he should be weaker, since both Naruto and Sasuke were nerfed when fighting him (Naruto had some chakra absorbed by Momoshiki, and Sasuke's Rinne Sharingan were reduced to a regular Rinnegan for teleporting 8 people to the alternate dimension.)