To answer your (ludicrous ) assertions - point by point, if you have read my previous posts on a variety of issues( including the recent EU referendum and l'affaire Alexander Blackman case), you will note that I am a healthy skeptic of what the media (or sections of it) in my own country(UK) comes up with and insist on thinking for myself(as is customary in a democracy). I am simply applying my own logic and standards to MH-17 and the whole Ukraine conflict as I am to any other issue- if that is "bias" or "brainwashing" to your line of thinking, then that is your prerogative. As for the ICC( which may very well get involved in prosecuting the perpetrators of the shoot down, irrespective of nationality), the issue is NOT whether it is infallible( no human institution is), but whether there is probable cause for it to believe a crime has been committed( and as to who may have committed it). You go on about my alleged "naivete"- well I do NOT regard myself as an overly credulous or naive person.
The real "naive" individuals are the likes of Nigel Farage( I presume you have heard of him) , Thierry Mariani and Marine Le Pen!
At the very least I do NOT consider anything said by a government headed by one Vladimir Putin to say anything truthful or trustworthy on anything pertaining to the conflict in Ukraine or flight MH-17. As I noted before, deception and deceit are part of his stock in trade(hardly surprising for a veteran KGB operative- and bear in mind that by Putin's own admission-"there is NO such thing as a former KGB officer!").
Basically I think whilst I put forward cold hard facts(and to quote your late countryman Stalin- "facts are stubborn things", Rubear), you engage in ad hominem attacks and insults, non sequiturs "whataboutery" red herrings rather than address the points I raise.
First of all, you REALLY MUST grow out of the "infamy" line of thinking( so named for Kenneth Williams's line in "Carry On Up The Senate"-"infamy, infamy, infamy- they've all bloody well got it in-fa-,me!") Given that the ICC has earlier announced this year that it will open an investigation into alleged war crimes committed during the Russo-Georgian war of 2008, I;d say that it at least a possibility it will do so vis a vis MH-17 and the Ukrainian conflict as well). Or are you prepared to argue that the ICC is secretly in the pay of Uncle Sam( or maybe the CIA secretly implanted chips in the brains of Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda and the ICC's judges- quite a feat as the US unsigned the Rome Statute and seems unlikely to resign and ratify the Rome Statute irrespective of whether Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton wins next month's US Presidential elections! What's next?- implying that the Court is under the telepathic control of aliens???
To answer your criticism- YES here ARE times when Western governments have been "economical with the truth"( remember the "sexed up dossier" on Saddam Hussein's alleged WMDs? Not that i ever believed it myself), but even so we STILL have a long way to go before we can match someone like Putin- to whom I noted, deception and dissimulation is his stock and trade.
back to the MH-17 report- much like during the Cold War, whenever someone produces anything not to the liking of the Kremlin, we receive a lot of self-righteous blather questioning their bona fides( "reactionary Red baiting" "running dog Yankee imperialism" "Western agents" "capitalists and landowners" even allegations of Nazi or Fascist sympathies) often ad hominem attacks and of course "whataboutery".
So what if Ukraine is one of the countries that contributed experts to the report? I consider the report to be infinitely more worthy of my trust than anything coming from the mouth of one Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin on matters pertaining to the Ukraine!
Terry
PS given that this matter may be turned over to the Hague based ICC(International Criminal Court) are you prepared to seriously assert that this body is a "Western Stooge"???
To respond to your claims, Rubear- I am inclined to consider an independent report by an outside authority to bear more weight than anything Vladimir Putin might say on the Ukrainian conflict , flight MH 17 or any other matter- as a veteran "Chekist"(ie KGB operative) deception is his stock in trade and NOTHING he says should be taken at face value(bear in mind Putin himself has declared that"there is no such thing as a former KGB officer"). Remember how he disengenously denied that the "anti-fascist resistance"( or "little green men" as NATO analysts waggishly call them) in Donbas were NOT Russian Army troops, then just as naturally admitted that was precisely the case?
Putin, like P.T.Barnum, Joseph Goebbels and Stalin before him seems to realize that"there's a sucker born every minute" as well as "make the lie big enough and it will be believed!" If you, the likes of Nigel Farage and Donald Trump choose to swallow his lies then that's your prerogative, but others such as myself are NOT so easily gulled!
In conclusion- although I try to research my posts beforehand, I seem to have got it wrong, forgetting the old aphorism that " assuming things makes an ass out of you and me"- automatically thinking that Imran Yousuf's Middle Eastern appearance and name meant that he was a Muslim - had he been named Patrick O'Malley or Abraham Goldfarb, most people including myself would have assumed that he was of Irish Catholic or Jewish origin.
Anyway a brave man/woman is a brave man/woman- irrespective of his/her ethnicity, nationality or religious affiliation.
Terry
PS some posters have called me an "Islamo-Apologist"- I will mention no names- you know who you are?) I can only reply that I have been called other such names on online forums- "Islamophobe" "Russophobe" "anti-Semite" "anti-American" and other such "boo words"!
When I "Googled" "Muslim Marine saves lives in Orlando massacre" I came up with Imran Yousuf- and irrespective of his religious affilation, Yousuf is clearly a credit not just to the Corps but to his country!
Whether you consider Jamala's song to be "crappy" is your prerogative, but is it not long past overdue for your country and its rulers to engage in "hissy fits" just because Ukraine won the Eurovision Song Contest and Russia didn't? I would not be surprised if Putin or his spokesmen insinuated that the CIA( presumably acting on the instructions of the White House) was somehow to blame for Jamala's triumph- perhaps the judges of the ESC had microchips secretly implanted in their brains by those dastardly fellows at Langley- or maybe the judges were secretly abducted and replaced by "little green men"( from Mars that is , not the Russian troops in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine)or any other absurd claim!
To conclude, if your and your countrymen(from Putin downward) take Jamala's victory as some kind of insult or slur, then feel free to say so- but as they say in New York, "if you don;t like it then you can go pound salt!"
I realize that my understanding of American history is arguably partial as an outsider, but hasn't buying and selling fellow human beings been illegal since the end of your Civil War in 1865(true no money was mentioned as changing hands but the implication that said daughter was for sale in effect was unmistakable)???
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