OmgOmgWtfWtf's forum posts

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#1 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

@atomix:

Let me break it down for you so you can understand.

The writters said that he can destroy omniverse not a multiverse and isn't just Ben 10 multiverse but cartoon network multiverse you can't say that Marvel universeis bigger than CN multiverse

Please show me where it was ever stated that the the Cartoon Network Universe is connected to the Ben 10 universe. That is bullshit otherwise. On the other hand, all of Marvel's publications are considered interlinked as separate alternate realities in a larger continuum.

Also that is a statement from a writer not a fictional chracters and in the episode " Ben again " Eon via Paradox's power source was going to destroy the multiverse and the Celestialsapien are more powerful than Paradox

That had nothing to do with sheer power. Eon was destroying the world because he was breaking the time stream. The same thing happened when Kang the Conqueror fought Ultron. I guess going by your logic, Ultron and Kang are multiversal+ beings.

Dwayne MCduffie and many other writers said Alien X is omnipotent its a fact

Stan Lee has also stated the same for Galactus. He stated so in the Fantastic Four comics that he authored and in a recent Twitter question:

https://twitter.com/TheRealStanLee/status/512437038558113792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

I find this entire dialogue pretty ironic considering that you completely invalidate your own argument. You claim that Alien X is omnipotent, but says he requires six thoughts to actually destroy the Ben 10 omniverse. That by it's own volition is contradictory to what is claimed.

Since I don't want to discuss this point any longer, this will be my last point on the matter.

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#2 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

@mudamudamuda:

Interesting post you have here. But are a couple of issues that I would like to address. This is not a comprehensive rebuttal, but merely a reply to several points that you have made. As I mentioned in the group PM, I don't have internet in my apartment. (I'm currently on my university wifi.)

Now to move on to the issues that I have noticed from my quick read of your rebuttal.

Prior knowledge

You are arguing from a point of prior knowledge. Every strategy and counterpart you mentioned is from a position of having intimate knowledge of my characters. The error in this nature of argumentation is that our characters have zero knowledge of each other's abilities. So drawing out explicit counters that your characters wouldn't know is logically unsound in this sort of debate.

Genjutsu - Illusion fallacy

The comparison you are making between genjutsu and Gowther's invasion ability are erroneous given that they operate on very different principles. Being capable of releasing oneself of genjutsu doesn't automatically equate to being able to dispel all forms of illusions. The effects may be the same, but the means by which they are achieved are very different. Being able to manipulate your own chakra plays little role in dispelling Gowther's illusions. Sasuke's ability to see through genjutsu is because genjustu manipulates one's senses. Gowther's ability Invasion manipulates the mind, not just the senses.

Gowther's powers

I feel that there is a bit of confusion regarding Gowther's invasion power. It doesn't operate under the principles of genjutsu. It cannot be dispelled under the same principles of genjutsu. This is mainly because the nature of how these powers operate are different, though the outcomes may be the same. Gowther's powers are more mental focused, rather than genjutsu's sensual focused aspect.

I will go into this more in-depth in my formal rebuttal.

Reading King's hand movements.

The problem with this point is twofold. First, being able to read King's hand movements don't really mean much. Unless Sasuke has intimate knowledge of what those hand movements mean, it really doesn't help him at all. For example. Sasuke can read the hand movements of sign language, but it doesn't mean he can understand what it means.

This will be expanded upon in my formal rebuttal as well.

This is by no means a comprehensive response and there are many other points that I will address in a later post. The points I already mentioned will also be expanded in my more formal post.

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#3 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

@mudamudamuda:

Take your time honestly. I'm on vacation right now and starting school in about a week, so my schedule will be busy as well.

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#4 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

@mudamudamuda:

Character Introductions

King

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King, also known as Harlequin, is the third king of the fairies from the manga, Nanatsu No Taizai. Despite his youthful appearance, King is over 700 years old, and possesses a myriad of magical powers. Some of which are common to all fairies and others which are unique only to him. While not a physically imposing character, King makes up for this with his speed and numerous magical powers. His powers include flight, telekinesis, and shape-shifting - among other things.

King's unique power is Disaster and he wields the sacred treasure, Spirit Spear Chastiefol.

More info can be found here.

Gowther

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The enigmatic being, known as Gowther, is a living doll from the manga, Nanatsu No Taizai. Created by a powerful wizard, Gowther has the appearance of a young and androgynous male human. Though appearing outwardly human, he is more artificial than man, and requires no sleep or nourishment. His doll-like body grants him super strength, speed, durability, and stamina; plus limited shape-shifting. Gowther is highly calculative and is logically driven, having very little, if any, grasp on human emotions.

Gowther's unique power is Invasion and he wields the sacred treasure, Twin-Bow Herritt.

More info can be found here.

Powers and Abilities

Instead of going in-depth about my character's powers, I will post videos from the Nanatsu No Taizai anime. It does fairly well in explaining and showcasing my character's powers and abilities. Additional feats will be posted from the manga when necessary.

King

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Gowther

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Strategy

My opening strategy for this match is fairly simple. I will first have Gowther analyze the situation through his power, "Invasion," which operates similarly to telepathy. He will garner whatever necessary information from your team through this and react accordingly. This will give my team a tactical advantage in the beginning of the match and effectively gives me full knowledge of your team's powers and abilities.

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Gowther will then proceed to place your team under illusions, while King subsequently knocks your team unconscious with his sacred treasure, Chastiefol.

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Gowther's illusions are so potent, that victims remain entranced even if their physical body comes under harm.

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Additionally Gowther has more going for him than just illusions. He can go full mindrape and leave your team in an everlasting nightmare.

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While your team is too busy dealing with Gowther's Invasion power, King will take the stage and overwhelm your team with his sacred treasure,Chastiefol.

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By utilizing his telekinesis and unique magic power Disaster, King can mentally control and alter the shape of his sacred treasure for a variety of effects. I won't go into detail all the forms it can take, instead I will give you the link to the wiki page. Feats for the spear can be found in the videos I posted as well.

Now, what I really want to showcase is how strong King's telekinesis is. That is to say, King could effectively kill your team with a flower.

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He could also condense water to the point where it has a density equivalent to iron and propel it into your team's bodies, turning them into swiss cheese.

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Any damage your team sustains can be further exasperated via King's power Status Promotion. It allows him to inflict grievous wounds on your team by turning minor injuries into major ones.

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This power is a subset of King's unique power Disaster, which can do the following:

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Conclusion

Your team has no answer to Gowther's ability, Invasion, which basically means your team has no viable way of winning. You have no means to counter Gowther's illusions or mental attacks, let alone what King brings to the table.

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#5 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus can't nourish himself with his own powers. That would be counter intuitive.

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#6 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

@galactic_1000: Yet, nothing you said makes him omnipotent. The fact that he requires six thoughts to destroy his omniverse means he not omnipotent. Also, i'm pretty sure the Marvel multiverse is larger than the ben 10 multiverse by a good margin.

If we are to take statements at face value than Galactus would have destroyed the Marvel multiverse as a side effect of his fight with the Other and Scrier. A fight that was said by Oblivion to more damaging than what Mikaboshi did, which was eliminate 99 percent of the Marvel Multiverse.

However, if you want to take one ambiguous statement by a Ben 10 writer as undeniable fact, then that's your perogative. From what i see, the Alien X hype is equivalent to the Sentry wank.

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#7 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

@galactic_1000: Omnipotence by nature is a fictional concept. Regardless of that, neither Galactus nor Alien X is omnipotent. If simply being called omnipotent is enough than i can recall several instances where Galactus is called that.

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#8 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread makes me sad.

Galactus has shown multiversal level feats (fight with the Other and the Scrier) and has killed universal+ beings (Abraxas,who was collapsing universes, and the Mad Celestials, who were tanking shots from Infinity Gauntlets and Ulimate Nullifiers and destroying universes as well).

Galactus also survived the death of his universe, and is supposed to survive the heat death of the 616 universe.

This was all done by a NOT fully fed Galactus. A fully fed Galactus would be infinitely more powerful than anything we ever seen.

And anyone claiming that Alien X is omnipotent needs to read up the definition. There is an entire race of Celestialsapiens, e.g. he can't be omnipotent.

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#9 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolandalderas:

Nice opening post. Very thorough. I will begin by voicing my issues with your strategy, then I will move on with my own rebuttal, counter attack and finish with a conclusion.

Issues

Summons and Character Morals

My issue here is not with the summons themselves, but with their impact on the surrounding area. All of our characters are in-character, and as such, Jairaya wouldn't risk harming the audience with his large summons. Nor would he allow Orochimaru do the same. The sheer size of some of your summons, i.e. Rashoman gate, would literally destroy the arena and kill the audience. Jairaya being the hero that he is would never allow such a thing to ever happen.

Teamwork

Your team members may have been allies in the past, but their turbulent relationship will make your seamless plan not so seamless. While your strategy was well thought out, you fail to include their hatred and natural distrust for each other. Orochimaru and Jairaya won't work well together and won't instantly follow your plan as stated. Nor would they have come up with a plan as elaborate as yours once the match starts.

On the other hand, King and Gowther have been comrades for over a decade. My team can also come up with a plan instantly because Gowther can communicate the plan via his Broadcast ability.

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Rebuttal

Stage 1: Can't See Me

Just to clarify, my team doesn't require line of sight to actually know where you are. Both members of my team can sense an enemy's presence via their power levels.

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So simply obscuring my team's line of sight won't do much to hide your team's location. And just to clarify, King can fly thousands of feet above the air, so I will have an aerial view of the entire arena. So summons won't do anything to obscure my team's ability to see your team.

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Stage Two: Summoning Time

While I applaud your effort in trying to use overwhelming number to defeat my team, it is in vain. For you see, Gowther's powers allow me to take control of your summons via his ability Hijack. So whatever creatures you bring onto the battlefield will be turned against you.*

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*Because Gowther has only currently demonstrated the ability to control two things at most, I will consider this the uppermost limit of his Hijack ability until other feats present otherwise.

In order to counter the rest of your summons (at least the two that I'm not controlling), Gowther will use his ability Blackout to knock them unconscious. The ability won't affect Orochimaru or Jaraiya because they are too powerful, but it should work on the lesser summons.

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And in order to further incapacitate them, I will have King petrify the unconscious summons with his Spirit Spear Chastiefol - Form Three: Fossilization. (Note: The scans use a different word for the power.)

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All it requires is a small scratch for the fossilization to take place.

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With your summons out of the way, there will be no distractions for your team to utilize in order to pull off the rest of your strategy.

Stage Three: The Annoying Orochimaru

Trying to sneak attack my team will prove ineffective because of two reasons.

A) Gowther is a very keen person. He is capable of deducing an enemy's course of action relatively easily and react according.

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B) King has insane reaction speed. How fast you might ask? He was capable of reacting to a point blank attack from the back.

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And to further showcase King's reflexes, here are two videos showing how fast he can move and react to attacks.

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Stage Four: Frog Song

Jaraiya's frog song will prove ineffective versus Gowther because Gowther is not alive. Gowther is in fact a living doll. He's entirely artificial, not biological, and was brought to life via magic. So the song would have absolutely no effect on him.

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As for King, I will concede that the song would have effect him, but Gowther can counteract the effects with his powers. But let me remind you that the match will never reach a point where Jaraiya would be able to use such a technique.

Other Points

If I am understanding his abilities correctly, Gowther has to hit my team with an arrow from his bow to trap them in illusions. His mind reading and illusion techniques will serve him no good as he won't have time to attack before the Rashomon gates are summoned. After that, your team won't be able to attack mine so easily and will be bombarded with giant snakes and frogs that should keep them busy long enough for my plan to go through without any trouble.

Even reading my team's minds will be difficult as I don't think he can do it through walls or if he isn't close enough to them. Clone's minds cannot be read as they are just clones so if he attempts it on a shadow clone it will be no good.

Yes, you are correct in your understanding of Gowther's abilities. He has to hit you with one of his arrows in order to effect you. However, the amount of arrows that Gowther can fire is amplified by his sacred treasure, Twin-Bow Harlot.

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Sacred treasures act to amplify one's own unique magical power. In the case of Gowther, his sacred treasure increases the range of his ability Invasion, letting him hit affect multiple targets. Here he is using his ability Rewrite Light to temporarily alter the memories of multiple foes at once.

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He still has to hit my team to place them under illusions. Regardless, in a shared world with all things equal, both my characters are adept shinobi who are able to break free from Genjutsu (illusion) techniques in their own universe. I don't think they would find it too hard to break through the illusions since they have ways of doing it in their own universe.

As Itachi would prove otherwise, the skill of the users is really what determines how effective a genjutsu would be. And if memory serves me right, Orochimaru has shown poor skills versus Itachi's genjutsu and I would wager that Gowther's illusions are just as good - if not better.

For one, Gowther's illusions are so potent, that victims remain entranced even if their physical body comes under harm.

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Additionally Gowther has more going for him than just illusions. He can go full mindrape and leave your team in an everlasting nightmare.

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Counterattack

While your team is too busy dealing with Gowther's Invasion power, King will take the stage and overwhelm your team with his sacred treasure, Chastiefol.

No Caption Provided

By utilizing his telekinesis and unique magic power Disaster, King can mentally control and alter the shape of his sacred treasure for a variety of effects. I won't go into detail all the forms it can take, instead I will give you the link to the wiki page. Feats for the spear can be found in the videos I posted as well.

Now, what I really want to showcase is how strong King's telekinesis is. That is to say, King could effectively kill your team with a flower.

No Caption Provided

He could also condense water to the point where it has a density equivalent to iron and propel it into your team's bodies, turning them into swiss cheese.

No Caption Provided

Any damage your team sustains can be further exasperated via King's power Status Promotion. It allows him to inflict grievous wounds on your team by turning minor injuries into major ones.

No Caption Provided

This power is a subset of King's unique power Disaster, which can do the following:

No Caption Provided

Conclusion

  1. Your summons will prove ineffective because my team can either control them, petrify them, or incapacitate them.
  2. Your attemps to hide from my team will prove useless as my team can detect your presence and have an aerial view of the entire arena.
  3. My team works better together and can instantly formalize strategies via Gowther's Broadcast ability, which acts as telepathic communication. Your team on the other hand has a history of violence and mistrust between them.
  4. Your team has no counters to Gowther's mental attacks. Being capable of stopping simple genjutsu won't suffice as Gowther has more going for him than simple illusions. And as Itachi has shown, the user's skills has as much to do in a genjutsu's effectiveness as does the victim's ability to resist it. Gowther's mental powers are an entirely different level than what either Jaraiya or Orochimaru has seen. Orochimaru also has a history of being weak versus mental attacks.
  5. King's overwhelming speed and reflexes would hinder any attempts by your team to sneak attack mines.
  6. King's versatility in the usage of his numerous powers and his sacred treasure, Chastiefol, will prove too much for your team to handle.
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#10 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7475 posts) - - Show Bio

In terms of coolness, I am biased towards Teresa of the Faint Smile.

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