Om4zd

The Dark Knight is a better film, there's no question about it.

@ldm:I didn't even realize round 2 was Bats with that armour so, sorry about that. I sand by him definitely taking it however because of the prep time, his fighting ability, gadgets and enhanced strength and durability in the suit.

With regards to the first round and what you discussed, I guess I stand corrected? First you said:

"Stalemating MCU Cap in a grappling match..."

And now you say:

"So what ? Cap's strength and skill is still only slightly superior to Bucky, that is why he was able to overpower him."

"Bucky wasn't able to get out of that grapple using his metal arm because most of the times, Cap didn't let him have the opportunity to use it effectively"

He didn't get to use his metal arm at all; thus, as I first said, even his metal arm couldn't help him get out of that grapple. I'm not a professional wrestler but I assume that when you're in a grappling contest and your opponent doesn't even give you any chances to counter, and overpowers you, that's not a stalemate.

This one gif shows that Batman's striking power is close or equal to Cap and Bucky's. Granted, striking power doesn't equal strength, but then again Bucky doesn't have strength showings on Cap's level (e.g: Cap lifting the beam to save Bucky, overpowering Bucky's metal arm in the grapple to knock him out in the choke hold, and tugging Spidey over to him using his own webbing that he was restrained with). Bucky's only really shown to be able to hit as hard as Cap, and well, Bruce does shows that too.

Here is a strength showing where DCEU Batman tears off Firefly's metal wing from his suit with a single hand. This is a comparable feat to Bucky bringing Falcon down to the helicarrier in WS, but he did it with his metal arm, and a grappling hook.

While Bruce isn't as strong or durable as Cap, his is a situation like Black Panther's. T'challa hits hard like Cap, Bucky and Bruce, but he has no strength showings. Despite the lack of strength showings, he was still able to take on Bucky and Cap. And he had vibranium armour as an advantage. I think Bruce's intellect, fighting ability, and gadgets will give him the edge.

@ldm: Cap knocked Bucky out in a chokehold didn't he? And even his metal arm couldn't help him get out of that grapple. Bruce has near superhuman power behind his punches and kicks.

And why is Bruce way too slow? He was fast enough to counter hits simultaneously coming from 4 different directions.

@agencyagent34: He's not Bucky's physical match, but he isn't in the next category down in terms of physical ability either.

I'd give the advantage to Batman in the first round, but I imagine it wouldn't at all be easy to win. Batffleck borders on the same level physically, and it's just WS's metal arm that has any real superiority here. Besides that, Bruce is the marginally better martial artist, and he's smarter.

Batman definitely takes the second round.

Seeing some good arguments, and some bad ones, for both sides. Just want to clear a couple of things up.

1. Arkham Batman is a bullet dodger, as seen here in Batman: Arkham Knight #0.

This Batman clearly isn't this fast in the games, and I like to blame Rocksteady for that. And I mean that in a good way, because they need to make the game challenging for us - if Batman moved as fast as he could in the Arkhamverse comics the game would be too easy. Even Batman tells us in the game that to go up against armed thugs head on, would be suicide - this is a Meta Tutorial (meta is basically a situation in a work of fiction whereby characters display an awareness that they are in such a work, such as a film, television show or book). Rocksteady often makes Batman narrate to us, the players, to give us guidance and hints from his first person perspective.

Now in certain cutscenes we see Batman move or react much slower than he really can do. I think this is just for dramatic effect. From the above pictures it is evident Arkham Batman is actually a bullet dodger. This is peak human speed. And perhaps those thugs are just goons with horrible aim (though as you can see, their bullets are mighty close to hitting their mark), but that doesn't take away from the fact that Batman is still moving faster than they can concentrate their aim on him, and fast enough to just in general avoid being shot, even at point blank range.

There are further displays of speed/reflexes in the games, though not many. To the left is Batman dodging two throwing knives in quick succession, without having looked back.

And below you'll see Batman seeing, and grappling away from a speeding car just in time before it hits him and the police officer he just saved.

2. Arkham Batman does have quantifiable durability feats and Titan induced Bane/thugs are stronger than @nickzambuto assumes in a paragraph from one of his posts which is here:

Batman has similar will power, but he doesn't actually have the quantifiable durability feats of Oliver. Batman has a hard enough time surviving hits from Titan users, who are extremely low-level superhumans. For instance, Bane was defeated once by a speeding car and second by being trapped in an elevator. The best feat a Titan user has is popping the plate off of its own cage and escaping after the cage was severely damaged by a three story fall. This isn't low-balling, this is just facts.

Firstly, I want to share this clip of the Titan induced Bane boss battle in Arkham Asylum:

In all fairness, I can't argue against the point he made about Bane being stuck in that elevator/storage room or whatever it was. If he was made to be consistent, he should have easily been able to break through those metal bars, but it was an inconsistency. All I can and will go on to say are these points. In the above clip we see Bane picking up and throwing Batman through a brick wall, which must require substantial force on Bane's part considering that Batman is a man that weighs only 95kg. Nowadays brick walls are generally made of one layer of brick, being held together by cement. A sledgehammer could make quick work of that. But during the boss battle itself we can see that the walls surrounding are quite thick, and made up of at least two layers of brick. A lot of old buildings in America have brick walls that are 2 feet thick, and I don't think the basement walls of this Arkham Asylum structure are an exception to that.

I think this is a great durability feat for Batman. Especially considering how he got right back up and temporarily defeated Bane, where nick said:

Ollie and Merlyn endure hits from these guys, and not only do they survive, but they don't even stop fighting. At one point Ollie was even hit by Solomon Grundy hard enough to get launched across the room hard enough to slam into a concrete pillar and shatter it, then he was kicked in the gut so hard that he slid to the other side of the room and ricocheted off a metal pole.

By the end of the fight we see large chunks of debris and metal pipes falling on Bane, as Batman grapples to safety. Bane is seen conscious, yet on his hands and knees as this happens. Later Bane smashes through the wall nearby and grabs Batman, but not before Batman breaks free from his grip, and the Batmobile (not just any car) smashes Bane into the water. The first Arkham Batmobiles features have been specified on Eaglemoss Batman Automobilia #34. As described in the magazine, the armor is made of hardened steel that could repel bullets, blades, other types of projectiles, and resist direct collisions on high speed. It has 1200 horsepower, and is larger than The Dark Knight Trilogies Tumbler, which had 500 horsepower, and weighed 2.5 tonnes. Now, the fastest car to accelerate from 0-60mph is the Porsche 918. The Porsche 918 only has 608 horsepower. Bane was hit by, not just any car, but what could be a 2.5 to 3 tonne vehicle of hardened steel accelerating at atleast 60mph, if not more. It was probably more.

Next I would like to share this clip of Batman fighting a Titan induced Joker:

At the end of the fight, we see Joker fall into some sparks from wiring or something, and he is electrocuted but gets up from it like nothing happened (and I'm not even considering the fact that this Joker has an extremely high tolerance to pain and injury like his comic counterpart). Moments later, Batman sprays his hand with explosive gel, and punches Joker so that the gel would detonate. The explosion knocks them both several feet back, and Batman gets up from it unscathed. Sort of. His gauntlet is kind of messed up after.But this is a very impressive durability and armour feat for Batman though.

Finally for this point, here is the titan induced Bane boss battle from Arkham Origins:

Throughout the fight we see Batman sneaking up on Bane, and after grappling him, he pushes him into a generator protected by reinforced metal bars. The bars easily bend and break - I'm not sure who you want to accredit this to, Batman's strength, or Bane's strength and thickness of skin that those bars would bend and break so easily. In the end, Bane is electrocuted but recovers almost instantly each time, and this happens a few times until Bane finally grabs Batman, and throws him through a long hallway hard enough that the concrete wall cracks. Bane then proceeds to punch Batman through the wall, but Batman just shakes it off and manages to incapacitate Bane.

3. Arkham Batman is highly resourceful.

This fight is pretty sick. Batman utilizes not only his gadgets, but the environment, and even at one point, his enemy's weapon to his advantage. While he's briefly engaging King Shark, he flips over him at the right moment so that Killer Frost's ice blast misses and hits Shark instead. You can see him dodging Deadshot's bullets from a close range, before using his batarangs at the same time as grappling to safety, to disarm the assassin. In the end he's using his grappling gun for more than just swinging around, and those shock knuckles come in handy at end.

Besides this, if you've played the game, you'll just know that Batman utilizes a lot of gadgets throughout. Be it in combat, while he's sneaking around or if he's trying to solve the Riddler puzzles. It's just a tad tiring for me to carry on finding all the right clips and making gifs at this point.

We're creeping into a terrible age of dissonance surrounding comic book characters. People will suddenly hate on Batman if he is shown to have a chance at beating their favourite character. I commend those fans who keep an open mind. But to those who will go about, demeaning another character's traits and abilities, simply because you do not want to accept that your preferred character could lose to him/her? I'm irked by you.

That aside, I think it doesn't matter how many years of training or experience Diana has had in fighting. It is all about mental capacity, beyond the obvious, necessary physical and skill requirements in a combatant.

There is a thin line between being able to fight, and being able to fight through ingenuity. The likes of Batman, and Deathstroke, for example, surpass a mere 'melee fighter' in that for them (not unlike Diana but bare with me), it is mind then motion. And they have better and faster minds.

It should be of understanding to some of you that Wonder Woman is trained as a warrior from an ancient time. The advantage Batman has... I mean come on - you people honestly think Diana without her physically enhanced speed would still have a mind that could work as fast as Bruce's does? Even so, that her tactics would be superior to his?

Doesn't matter how long she's trained for, Bruce is a master of all those fancy martial arts (things which he certainly didn't need decades to master or learn - more impressive that he was able to do it in such a short time yes?) because he has a mental capacity far beyond even a great warrior. Some people are just born with inherent gifts of the mind. They are quick learners, and there is a reason why Batman is of that kind where he can overcome people who supposedly 'should' beat him because of a number. He has a greater mind.

Satele has better feats

@mk39: You have a prejudice sprung forth for no reason other than the fact that fans of Batman have different opinions than yours.