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Odinsonnn

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@ghostravage: No. I'm saying that viners should just debate the battle with the assumption that genjutsu works just like it does in the Naruto universe. Saves everyone from pointlessly arguing whether it would work or not (because of lack of chakra) or trying to compare it to telepathy (which is just not true).

BTW you're seriously underestimating Naruto and Sasuke.

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#2  Edited By Odinsonnn

@odinsonnn: Im not saying it's TP, but if you want it to be applicable to people that doesn't have Chakra at all, it's understandable to be assumed as TP assaults.

You shouldn't have to assume anything, just make it applicable. That is why I said..

I find it much more efficient to lay the rules such that genjutsu, and any other chakra-based technique, works just like in the Narutoverse. Either that or the battle should be implied that way (otherwise the Naruto characters are obsolete).

Like I said, it makes things 10x smoother.

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#3  Edited By Odinsonnn

@ghostravage: I just don't put genjutsu and TP in the same category. Two entirely different fields, man.

Telepathy is invasion of one's mind. It is being able to establish a connection with the mental processes of another individual.

Genjutsu, on the other hand, is manipulation of the senses. It alters an opponents chakra to persuade their senses. This is why it causes illusions of sight (affecting what it is you see--the scale depends on the caster), audio (affecting what you believe you are hearing vs the sound that is actually existent), and even physical properties so much as to cause real, immense, physical pain. The illusions (their strength, duration, and effects) can vary widely which is why it is its own genre of technique. Telepathy is not the same thing.

While I am not arguing whether genjutsu will work, or how effective it would be, I need you to understand the difference between these two things.

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Odinsonnn

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Way too much bias here. I thought Naruto fans were bad, but jeez..

Talk about not even considering (knowing a single thing about) the opposition.

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#5  Edited By Odinsonnn
@ghostravage said:

@odinsonnn: Genjutsu is Chakra manipulation. And one one has Chakra in Marvel... Not even Iron Fist nor Shang Chi who are the closest characters to have it.

Indeed it is. And indeed they don't.

Just had to clear that up (it's not TP).

I've made a Naruto vs third-party-verse thread before and I find it much more efficient to lay the rules such that genjutsu, and any other chakra-based technique, works just like in the Narutoverse. Either that or the battle should be implied that way (otherwise the Naruto characters are obsolete). Makes the debate 10x smoother.

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@jasonhawke: You can take Genjutsus as 2 things... TP assault or Chakra Manipulation, in which both cases the Team can withstand it.

Hulk has high end TP resistance on his own and neither of them have chakra to manipulate. Hulk doesn't even have pressure points.

Genjutsu is not telepathy. You can't control someone's mind with it. They are merely illusions that vary in duration and punishment depending on the caster. Pretty sure Hulk is susceptible to illusions.

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@strictlyanime: I don't think either of us are gonna budge.

I respect your argument tho.

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@strictlyanime: Nope.

For one you can't compare Ozai to Vaatu.

Second, Aang didn't achieve the equivalent of saving Raava (at the same time).

You're ignoring the difference. If Aang doesn't stop Ozai, the world MAY fall into darkness for a PERIOD OF TIME. Why? Because another avatar would be born to defeat him. Why? Because Raava still exists, which means the avatar still exists.

If Wan doesn't stop Vaatu the world WILL fall into darkness, except it would be eternal. Why? Because there's no more Raava, therefore no more avatar.

Aang's task had a safety cushion because not only was he taking on a lesser threat (don't even try to debate Ozai being lesser threat than Vaatu) but if he were to fail, another avatar would step into his place. If Wan fails, that's it. Literally. Nothing will be left to save. Raava and all peace would be gone. THERE WOULD BE NO MORE AVATAR.

Stop being so biased.

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Odinsonnn

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#9  Edited By Odinsonnn

Aang obviously did something that Wan didn't or couldn't do. After Aang beat Ozai he brought all of the bending nations together in Republic City, a place where everyone could live together in peace instead of being divided. Was it perfect? No, people like Amon and Tarrlok made that clear. However, Aang's task of creating peace ended up being a lot more peaceful than Wan's did, there was no major war in Aang's time like there was for Wan. Meaning Wan made a major mistake somewhere down the line, Aang did not.

You still fail to realize how minute of a task that is in comparison to Wan. Saving the earth kingdom, bringing the nations together, all of it. It's all irrelevant and completely mute if Vaatu were to have his way; if Raava would have died off.

Bottom line is that there would have been no world to "save" if it wasn't for Wan.

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@odinsonnn: i disagree, remember Ozai was going to torch the entire earth kingdom if aang hadnt stopped him the earth kingdom would have gone up in flames, millions would have died. zuko made it clear that if aang didnt defeat ozai there wouldnt have been a world left to save. even though wan beat vaatu the world still fell into war, but aang beat ozai and brought peace for some 50 or 60 years

1. You're looking at the tree but ignoring the forest. Aang stopped the firelord, Ozai (I'm not discrediting that at all). Wan saved the world from eternal chaos. Is there anything unclear about that? The world "falling into war" does not indicate any type of failure on Wan's part. Conflict is an inevitable human behavior (it's a theme that is consistently portrayed by writers of all genres). You can't blame Wan for that. You may not think so but he brought world peace (defeating chaos). He saved Raava (to whom Aang himself owes his very existence as the avatar). He's the first Avatar, man.

2. The world was far from "saved" after Aang's tenure as the avatar. You see the subsequent outcome (more than 50 years later); Korra has a new list of things to right and take care of as the new avatar. That is the purpose of the avatar. There is no such thing as finishing the job--the main reason they are reincarnated generation after generation. You blame Wan for "failing" yet you gloss over Aang's equivalent of the same. The reality is that neither of them failed. They both carried out their respective responsibilities as the avatar and they both did a damn good job.

My only point is that Wan did a better one.