noobsnowman

I am beyond prophecy.

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noobsnowman

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@django_f3tt: I'll wait for his Caedus respect thread to come out, and I'll extract any misinterpreted information and post them here. Not sure when it would come out though, it was supposed to be out last year.

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noobsnowman

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@django_f3tt: It's already being worked upon by DarthAnt, so it's unnecessary for me to do so. Unfortunately he dosen't have a high view on Caedus, so he would probably paint him under a low light.

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Also, this quote can probably explain why Jacen gained exceptional levels of battlefield awareness that allowed him to land very decisive hits on Luke during their fight (and later finish Katarn and co.), suggesting that it can possibly be an esoteric ability that is only exclusive to him:

"I think we're missing something, Lieutenant," Jacen said, dipping his fingertip into the maze of light to make his point. "Look, what you have here is actually a flotilla of corvettes, and this Destroyer here will move into this position, because she's actually operating a—"

He trailed off, aware of the raised eyebrows and puzzled looks he was getting, but bathed in the growing warmth of revelation.

I can see all this.

"Can we check that out?" the officer of the watch called to a colleague. "Colonel Solo is rarely mistaken."

Colonel Solo, Jacen thought, had just had the epiphany of his life.

It's true. Lumiya was right. Oh, this is exquisite. I was blind before. How did I ever think I could succeed as a commander without this?

Lumiya had promised him a battlefield awareness and judgment that made ordinary battle meditation look like a finger painting—to sense and coordinate by the power of his mind and will alone, a power that only came to fruition in the Master of the Sith.

Sacrifice

While such battlefield awareness is only shown in an army vs army context in this scenario, abilities of awareness and judgment is something that can not only be exclusively applied to it. Having awareness and judgment is part and parcel of single combat setting, and Jacen's prowess in it "makes BM look like finger painting", suggesting that his mastery of those traits could make it an esoteric ability.

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Edited By noobsnowman

@django_f3tt@darthfallax: History repeating itself is not within Jacen's own self reflection. It aided in proving Jacen's own thoughts of his clear superiority over anyone in NJO barring Luke, and the consistency of history repeating itself only cemented the credibility of his own opinion. When it said "but it was true", the narration objectively confirms Jacen as being factually above any of them except Luke, because it wasn't Jacen's opinion by that point.

Also, Bloodlines is the second book of Legacy of the Force. And the book in which they fought was The Inferno. When Jacen made that monologue, he wasn't yet Darth Caedus, yet his powers was objectively stated to be growing closer to Luke by the day. Reasonable inferences and scalings should conclude that by the time they both fought, which was 4 books after and after Jacen became a Sith, his powers should have increased to the point that he is far and away superior to anyone else in NJO, and capable of contending with Luke, which further cements my argument on why their fight was so close.

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Edited By noobsnowman

@darthfallax:

I'm more powerful than any of you.

It was a boy's expression of anger, but it was true. And, as history repeated itself because it had no other choice, Jacen was more powerful than any of them except Luke. And he was growing closer to Luke's strength by the day.

It's objective, obviously.

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Edited By noobsnowman

@darthfallax: It only cements the idea that he is second to Luke during his time. The problem is that there is a massive gap between Kyp and Luke, and Caedus could be closer to Kyp than Luke or vice versa.

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@django_f3tt: Be sure to quote DesolatorStorm too, he was the one who brought the quote up, I helped bring it to attention on this thread :)

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@darthfallax: Eh, not too sure about that one. Because it dosen't verify exactly how close he is to Luke. For all we know, he may still be very far from Luke, or very close to Luke. All we know that he is growing closer to Luke, but it isn't established whether he had a long way to go or the gap was almost bridged. So that quote is in a gray area at best.

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@darthfallax: Indeed, hence the noticeable disparity between the two. Though I'm pretty sure any sub Yoda character would be unable to wiggle out of the same situation of not being combat ready, tbh.

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@darthfallax:

Luke ragdolling Jacen says otherwise.

The text clearly states that Jacen was not combat ready during the interrogation session, so it severely reduces the credibility of the feat. Otherwise, Luke should have replicated it again during this fight, in which he didn't.

The irony of the statement was far from lost on Caedus, but he was too astonished-and too frightened-to take any pleasure in it. While it was true that Luke had taken him by surprise, it was equally true that he had done so with no visible effort-and that he was continuing to hold him with no apparent exertion.

I'm not saying that there's hardly any disparity between the two in force powers, there is, and it is a noticeable one. But it's not to the point that Luke could outright ragdoll Caedus whenever he pleases.

Good find. But from whom´s perspective is that?

Depending on how you interpret it, it's either Luke's perspective or it's just the neutral narration of the text. I'll give you the expanded version of the text:

Beyond Jacen, the metal shutters were coming down across the viewports. It wasn't surprisng; the explosions had to have weakened the viewport housings, and the ship's diagnostics were sealing everything up before the atmosphere could explosively escape. Besides, all of a sudden there were more ships to see out there, and some of them were approaching the Anakin Solo, laser batteries flashing. Luke gestured toward Jacen. Jacen raised his lightsaber and his left hand, ready to ward off any attack, but Luke's gesture was a diversion. His exertion in the Force picked up one of the YVH droids and hurtled it backward, against the faltering viewport.

The transparisteel buckled and the droid was lost to space. Air, rushing past the Jedi, tugged them forward, and Jacen staggered back toward the viewports, but then the shutters came down, sealing the bridge.

Meanwhile Luke felt a pained exertion in the Force as Saba leapt up to the walkway and walked-limped-off the bridge.

Three YVH droids were left. And Jacen. Against Luke and Ben. Jacen was Luke's match, which meant Ben had to cope with three combat droids. The odds weren't good. Then the odds changed.

As he batted blasterfire with his lightsaber, Luke felt a surge of emotion in the Force: innocent joy, a little girl's delight at going home.

Jacen visibly paled. "Allana. . ." Suddenly he charged, crossing his own combat droids' streams of blasterfire, forcing them to cease fire for brief moments.

He came at Luke but leapt laterally, flying across empty air to one of the doorways leading aft, utterly ignoring the Jedi.

Luke snapped a command to his son: "Extract! Warn Leia, Jacen's coming!" He got his lightsaber up and deflected new streams of blasterfire, then began backing toward the bridge's blast doors, toward his son.

I'll let you decide for yourself. I personally think it's part of the narration, but you might disagree.